Posts by ESmub68

¡Dios mío! Spain blocks DNS to hush Catalonian independence vote sites

"What true facts should I read?

You say that Spain is a democracy. Then why cannot the Catalans vote on this issue? Canada has done this with Quebec twice, the UK with Scotland, Czechoslovakia split into two countries amicably. So that's 3 countries that allowed one group to vote to decide their future."

I explained the reason in a former post hooked in this article. Please fetch it.

If Catalans want to decide their self-determination by means of a referendum then they have to request a change in the Constitution (which is something feasible as the law contemplates this scenario); but they have to follow the proceedings. What they are doing now is simply to disobey the law, which is totally illegal.

Some true facts are:

1. After 36 years living in Franco's dictatoship, Spain converted itself into a democratic state by voting a Constitution that establishes Spain as a one nation with one sovereign people.

2. Catalonians voted massively in favour of that Constitution, this happen before the implantation of the State of the Autonomies (regions that can run by themselves upon the State final supervision).

3. Under this constitutional framework, Catalonia has become the most advanced self-governed region in Europe with one or the highest level of living, economical, social and cultural progress.

Despite of these true facts, Catalonian leaders still claim for more privigeles and refuse to be ruled by Spain laws. This attitude shows egoism, unsolidarism and contributes to develop xenophobic behaviours within Catalonia region. Catalonian leaders are irresponsible and are fooling catalonians with false arguments to hold a referendum that is not valid at any instance, not only in Spain but also in Europe.

Of course, most of the spaniards ouside Catalonia are completely fed up with this situation and the eternal claims coming from independentist catalonians. This situation must finish and at this time there is no way to think of a win-win... one side has to lose.

If not clear yet I bet for Spain.

@Strahd Ivarious

So, are you comparing the US Independence War with what is happening in Catalonia? C'mon

Different ages, different geopolitical frameworks...

Fortunately we are not in century XVIII; but if you mean that maybe Catalonians should fight for their independence, then this is the kind of thoughts I cannot even imagine at this time and this era.

Spain is a democratic Nation and a member of the European Union and the Spain Constitution preserves the integrity of the Spain territory (as any other first-world Constitution law you might read).

You all seem to support Catalonians following their romantic revolution; but things are quite more serious. Investigate, read the facts, THE TRUE FACTS, not the propaganda.

Chapter 1 of the UN Charter calls for the right of self-determination of peoples.

So you defend to have a discussion on the prevalence of the different laws, Spain Constitution and UN Charter.

Given that the Catalan Govern is disobeying Spain law and claims for application of UN Charter, IMO the rational and democratic way of doing things should be to raise a request of statement coming from UN Council that considers if Chapter 1 should be applied in the case of Catalonia... Do you know why the Catalan Govern has not proceeded this way? because they absolutely know that chapter 1 cannot be applied in this case as Catalonia has never been a spanish Colony.

What Catalonia Government is doing has a name and is REBELLION.

"A constitution is a piece of paper. Unless (a) all parties agree to abide by it, or (b) it is backed up by violence, it is worthless. The history books (and present reality in the world) is littered with quasi states that are partially recognised (Nagorno-Karabakh, Kosovo, Israel, Palestine, Taiwan, Transnistria for example), and constitutions that have been violated left right and centre to the point of meaninglessness."

A Constitution is a piece of paper??? Are you serious?

For sure you are not a USA citizen...

OMG a hundred times.

"A government using blocking set up for terrorists and copyright for something else."

A Catalan government that uses children by moving them out of schools to attend to demonstrations of protest in the street... Unbelievable.

A Catalan government that uses public funds to organize a referendum that has been prohibited by Spain Constitutional Court (equivalent of US Supreme Court).

You all have to know that the Constitution of Spain stablishes that Spain is ONE SOVEREIGN PEOPLE and ONE SOVEREIGN NATION; This means that no region can assume the sovereignty of the whole Spain People and organize a referendum to decide their auto-determination. THIS IS THE LAW.

I can expose a million more rational arguments as the above... anyway I would like to ask you to not to express such opinions without having the whole picture.

Half-true facts are complete lies, someone stated.

Sorry if my english is not good enough to express complex thoughts, not my natural language.