* Posts by Chairman of the Bored

932 publicly visible posts • joined 19 Apr 2017

Che tiara! Revolutionary cloud commune fitted for Red Hat developers

Chairman of the Bored

I misread something

My brain read OpenShift as OpenShaft. I'm from a coal mining company and open shafts lying around are bad juju. Very. Bad.

Crypto exchange in court: It owes $190m to netizens after founder 'dies without telling anyone vault passwords'

Chairman of the Bored

As we get older...

When my dad passed he was not of sound mind. When I got into all his accounts and books the realization hit that his judgement had actually been degraded for some time, and I had a major forensic accounting task on my hands.


If you've got kids do them a favor while you can still think straight- put them on all your accounts and go over your financial status with them in detail at least once a year. I'm making sure mine have no surprises when I shift off the mortal coil.

Fake fuse: Bloke admits selling counterfeit chips for use in B-1 bomber, other US military gear

Chairman of the Bored

Re: Counterfeit Electronic Components Process

Silver paint! I remember those on 74- and 4000-series logic chips and low end op-amps. Especially those sold though Radio Shack and equivalents in the early 80's. Your hair must be gray like mine, right?

Now I've got to rummage in my junk chips drawer, I'm sure I can find one and give it a little acetone. Or in my case these days equal parts acetone, methanol, and kerosene.

Check out: https://www.aeri.com/counterfeit-electronic-component-detection/

Chairman of the Bored

There is a human cost, too.

Whether you want to call it upcycling, counterfeiting, whatever... the process through which electronic waste gets reprocessed into "new" bogus chips n tat is absolutely filthy. Poor communities in Asia and Africa get poisoned trying to make a few meager bucks off our hazardous waste.

Real people, dying slowly

EU has at least paid some lip service to reducing volumes of electronic waste. US? Not so much.


Chairman of the Bored

Re: IC marking

Easy to spot used chips? Not necessarily. For some packages like ceramic DIP with gold pins used in ZIF sockets, its tough to mitigate scratches on the package and leads. Its very hard to remove solder from gold plated pins without losing the plating. Re-use can be easily detected and hard to mask.

But a plastic package with tinned leads? If the bad guy bead blasts or sands off the top, blacktops, re-etches, straightens and tins the leads... he's good to go for nearly all casual inspections.

Sure, one can do trace metal checks of pins, look at every chip under a microscope for sanding marks, inspect pins under the microscope, scrape and acetone every chip to look for blacktop, and so forth but that takes a lot of time money most firms are totally unwilling to spend... unless one already suspects a problem.

Heck, I'm actually trained in this, slightly paranoid, and anal retentive in my lab habits. Even then I'm maybe 20-50pct effective spotting the known fakes in training when using only basic tools and chemicals.

This is a multi billion dollar problem. If you or your firm are US or Canadian and you've got concerns I strongly recommend you join the Government-Industry Data Exchange Program (GIDEP). Great training, and an even better event and device database.

Chairman of the Bored

Re: IC marking

"I suspect military applications have similar rules." Yes, absolutely. And remember that much of the B-1B traces its heritage back to the 70s. Surely most of the avionics and payload equipment has been upgraded over the years but I'd not be surprised in the least to find cards over a decade old.

Not all counterfeits are easy to detect. Some of these guys will sand off markings, blacktop, then laser etch really good markings. Sometimes the only way to tell is use acoustic microscopes, x-rays, curve tracers, and even decapping to catch a fake. But there is no how, no way you can do that level of effort everywhere.

Keep your friends close, your supply chain closer, and keep a weather eye on the gray market guy who seems to always have a good supply of obsolete chips

Grumble Pai: FCC boss told by House Dems to try the novel concept of putting US folks first, big biz second

Chairman of the Bored

Public sector worker...

@Graham 25 asks if Pai can be sacked as a public servant... it's complicated.

First the typical case: most civil servants work in the Executive Branch, which sits under the President. All of these people serve at his pleasure and can be fired by the chief executive. Congress, a separate and supposedly co-equal branch does not have personnel authority, but it does have the blunt instrument of controlling agency budgets. So if Congress if feeling peeved they can pressure the President by de-funding an agency, but this is a cat fight.

Edge cases: FCC is one of a number of independent agencies. It is funded entirely by fees levied on industry and ultimately passed on to consumers. Board members are appointed the President and confirmed by the Senate. The President appoints one of the Board members as chair. I believe a commissioner's term of office is 5 years. In this construct neither the President nor Congress have direct personnel authority. Theoretically this insulates a regulatory organization from political influence. But given the FCC's third of a billion $ budget is actually paid by industry, Congress has even less power than usual because there are no purse strings they can cut. One could argue a regulator funded by the industry it regulates is inherently weak, and I wouldn't disagree.

What can Congress do? Pass specific legislation to regulate industry. But if the President vetoes the bill, Congress needs a 2/3 majority to override. And this is difficult in a country equally split between parties.

Congress can hold individuals in contempt for refusing documents, refusing to testify, and so forth. There are civil and criminal sanctions available but lawmakers rarely invoke this power.

Interestingly its the Judiciary that decided the Congress needed extraordinary powers to hold persons in contempt, largely through a ruling in the early 19th century:


Good news! Only half of Internet of Crap apps fumble encryption

Chairman of the Bored

Re: small memory footprint in devices

Hardware limitations are not an excuse for lack of crypto. I've gotten AES-128 running rather well on PIC and AVR micros. Even the venerable 8051 can have a go. For an efficient implementation there is no need for the performance of an ARM.

Please visit: https://cr.yp.to/mac/8051.html

UK spy overseer: Snooper's Charter cockups are still getting innocents arrested

Chairman of the Bored

And then you've got the back end...

...of the process.

Suppose you're wrongly accused of a heinous crime and lack the resources to hire competent counsel. In the US the court appoints a public defender, generally a newly minted lawyer with no staff and very little time. I don't know how this works in the UK, but here its a disaster.

If you're poor and subject to a "wrong man" child abuse complaint, you're screwed.

Extreme case: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/31/us/public-defender-case-loads.html

My church and family work with many homeless people and lack of access to effective legal services is a big reason many are homeless. The stereotype of homeless being lazy substance abusers is just that... I'm as likely to see a guy with a laptop bag living rough as I am a man with a dime bag.

Boffins debunk study claiming certain languages (cough, C, PHP, JS...) lead to more buggy code than others

Chairman of the Bored

Re: They're not thinking or even bothering to read the literature in their own field.

Nor would I expect one to read all libraries' docs.

What I meant by my comment is that I believe I can reasonably expect someone calling themself a "computer scientist" to at least keep abreast of news and events in IT/IA/CS and actively seek to expand their knowledge l. Given events over the last 15-20 years, I believe I can expect any CS working for me to understand the fundamentals of buffer overflow and know why strcpy() is deprecated and what they need to look for in a replacement.

Sometimes things don't work out and that's ok - its why we have management reserve, testing, etc. When I get angry is when we repeat mistakes - ours or other's

Cheers, CoB

Chairman of the Bored

Re: Snotty PhDs

I've seen this at close range for years, but in the other direction as well: stepdad is a PhD physicist and my mom worked for surgeons. In formal social settings I notice the MDs will refer to my stepdad as "doctor" but surgeons almost never do. MDs or surgeons who also have PhD will refer to anyone else with PhD as "doctor". So ... surgeons.

That being said, I want my surgeons to be highly confident people (but hopefully not cocky) and I suppose some ego is to be expected.

Me? I will answer to damn near anything, especially if you are offering a pint. I will gladly offer an MD their title of "doctor" out of sincere respect for their skills and responsibilities.

Yoda say, "Petty BS this is"

Chairman of the Bored

Re: I'm glad its not my job.

@JohnFen, I think eventually it matured into a reasonable language. But DoD was shoving this on programs when it was - at best - half baked.

One of my first exposures to adult level work was a hard realtime system implemented in assembler and a customized C language that was already well into EMD ... when the witless wonders in OSD forced a switch to Ada. For want of an optimizing compiler the hardware architecture had to be respun, going from 2 to 5 microprocessors. In compact, power constrained flight hardware. Reliability and every other -ility crashed hard. Large contributor to project failure.

But I don't blame the language so much as the stupidity on high and the lack of cojones on the PM ... sometimes you've got to say "Hell, no, it won't go."

Chairman of the Bored

Re: It's "What's the best language" all over again


Great example with the strncpy() updates. What I have seen in my org though are people too lazy or unskilled to understand why strcpy() is an issue. So they just cargo cult code with strcpy()

compile it, and run. They're not thinking or even bothering to read the literature in their own field.

Obviously these need to be educated if possible and encouraged to succeed elsewhere when it is not. Any tool in the hands of a cargo cultist is dangerous, I don't think there is anything we can do with tools and architecture to mitigate incompetence.

Chairman of the Bored

I'm glad its not my job.

I like hard science research because I can ask a tightly defined question and address it with an elegant investigation.

Research such as the 'least buggy lingo' strikes me as a fool's errand. There are vast numbers of confounding factors one must account for, and I haven't a clue what they all are or how to control them. Just off the top of my head, I think you need to adjust for:

Experience level of developers in a given language, developer team cohesiveness, team size, development methodology, team morale, quality of dev environment, lack of PHB questioning every decision, availability of automated quality assurance, testing or lack thereof, quality of requirements, stability of requirements, quality of req to function allocation, availability of good libraries, quality CM systems... I could go on for hours; been doing this for decades and literally everything I've listed just now has a tale of woe to match. I've never seen a project fail because the language was "wrong"

When I think of all the absolutely essential crap in the systems engineering vee above and to the left of coding ... and the V&V activities above and to the right ... you'd have to work really hard to convince me language quirks dominate quality.

I trust my experts to choose an appropriate tool for a job. I grew up dealing with DoD's "Ada is the answer" abortion and would not wish that attitude on anyone.

Worried about Brexit food shortages? North Korean haute couture has just the thing

Chairman of the Bored

Re: The Rule of Threes

You forgot:

3 rounds in the chest

Just going for completeness!

Data hackers are like toilet ninjas. This is not a clean crime, you know

Chairman of the Bored

Biblical solution to bathroom issue

1 Samuel 25:22

So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.

Translation: if he pisses against the wall, whack him!

Chairman of the Bored

Re: Most inconsiderate


A very sensible approach, and I hope you and the smoker had many excellent pints.

I should have negotiated a better solution and doing so would have helped my colleague's health out a bit as well. Looking back I was too "boot" - fresh out of the service plus too immature and insecure to challenge an older employee higher on the food chain.

I went through my professional phase where I think I would have handled this well, and delightfully have now reached the age where I can be a full on BOFH if I'm bored.

Chairman of the Bored

Most inconsiderate

After a bout of misbehavior I was sentenced to serve my time each day in an a barely illuminated, unventilated, 4-person cube farm. This had a vault door with an aggressive alarm, if open for more than a few seconds the security forces would be called out, so I received replenishment air in differentially small volumes.

And lo! My office mate could not be bothered to leave our nest to go outside to smoke. She merely covered the smoke with really cheap perfume. I walked out every day smelling like I'd spent it in Vegas.

The most annoying British export since Piers Morgan: 'Drones' halt US airport flights

Chairman of the Bored

Self-limiting problem

Newark is a little sketchy, but for years the mob has treated nearby JFK as a glorified piggy bank. If some tosser DoS'es JFK with a drone that may impact revenue from the import / export and truck hijacking rackets. If the perpetrator is lucky all they would need is a spot of orthopaedic surgery, perhaps combined with some dental work.

Starship bloopers: In touching tribute to Tesla shares, Musk proto-craft tumbles – as Bezos' Blue Origin rocket lifts off

Chairman of the Bored

No shame in that, Elon

You see, as designs age sometimes they just don't stay up. I'd recommend getting adequate rest, cut back on the coffee, cigs

and reefer, and not worry about it. If that doesn't work, try using the turbopumps. Rocket still wont fly? See if Bezos' Blue Origin can sample you a blue pill...

En garde! 'Cyber-war has begun' – and France will hack first, its defence sec declares

Chairman of the Bored

I hope...

...the Maginot Command Line is no longer several hundred km, er, characters too short. Be a shame if the Germans or someone did another buffer overflow on that particular input field.

F***=off, Google tells its staff: Any mention of nookie now banned from internal files, URLs

Chairman of the Bored

Re: US military services

Coasties! Some dedicated, hard working men and women. Never seen a fat or lazy one. The service is too poor to afford a permanent desk jockey class, so just about every one is a real operator.

Back on the language topic: slide over to the bar and have a big fscking beer, on me.

Are you sure your disc drive has stopped rotating, or are you just ignoring the messages?

Chairman of the Bored

And you shall know...

...your developer by their prompts.

Years ago I was working a for Uncle Sam and had to use a brand new, custom piece of trusted software. I won't name the developer but the name rhymes with "IBM Federal Systems Division"

When a guy hotplugged that which should not have been hotplugged, the S/W died and brought up tons of error dialogs. In Mandarin.

So, I looked to the procurement spec. Must be American firm... coded by American nationals... export controlled... After reading the spec I expected a bald eagle to fly in the room, whistle the Star Spangled Banner, and stare into my soul to make sure my blood is red, white, and blue. But strings and grep said 'Mandarin' and 'German' and 'English written by a 5-year-old'

American, eh? Police would call the messages "a clue".

Called the support line about the hotplug problem and spoke with a very courteous and skilled Indian sounding guy improbably named "Bob". Yeah... I'll buy that for a dollar!

Chairman of the Bored

Find the "A" key


I think his twin worked for me. Had an engineer who was a slow, two finger typist. He tempted fate by incessantly talking about an upcoming trip to the Caribbean while the rest of us were prepping for some serious cold weather field test action.

Prank? Someone with a pocketknife mirrored the alpha keys on his keyboard: qwertyuiop -> poiuytrewq. When he got back, hilarity ensued.

Prank 2 was filling his cube with balloons, many of which had stink bugs inside, but that's OT

Chairman of the Bored

Favorite prompts

Some I've seen:

"Bang a lot of keys to abort."

"We haven't tested this function, care to have a go?"

Bipartisan Kumbaya: President Trump turns Obama's open govt data policy into law

Chairman of the Bored

Another Chief

Summary looks good. Law itself? TL;DR

As usual we get another Chief-something, which will create six Deputy CDO's. Each of these will need six Assistant Deputy CDOs. These will need compliance officers, policy analysts, financial analysts, budget analysts. Drug testers. Procurement people. Probably need a CIO for the CDO at that point. What the hell, might as well get a few hundred telephone sanitizers.

At this point each agency will have its own Open Data Fiefdom, each with its own standards. These of course will not be interoperable because its too hard to mate icebergs.

The Chairman's take: "Whether you want to grow or shrink Government, you need to understand it will metastasize like pancreatic cancer trippin' on growth hormones"

CES flicks the off switch on massager award… and causes a buzz

Chairman of the Bored

Wait, the authorities closed...

...a French nudist restaurant?

That must've been a hairy experience.

I'll get my coat, its the one with the hydraulic apparatus in the pocket.

Amazon Mime: We train (badly) an AI love bot using divorce bombshell Bezos' alleged sexts to his new girlfriend

Chairman of the Bored

Worst. Pickup. Line. Ever.

So they met when Sanchez was doing a photo shoot of rockets?

Did the line, "Hey, babe. Wanna make my rocket go up and fly?" actually WORK???

Oh, FFS. I just give up.

Peak Apple: This time it's SERIOUS, Tim

Chairman of the Bored

Re: Market "too emotional?"


"I took that "Market is too emotional" comment to be referring to the STOCK market"

Absolutely agree that was the OP intent. But as an investor I need to look at the fundamental business model of a firm. If I perceive that their business model requires a stronger emotional purchase decision than their products warrant, I'm concerned about the investment. And that makes me a lot less likely to invest. So, turtles all the way down.

Chairman of the Bored

Market "too emotional?"

Of course the bloody market is emotional! People buy luxury products based on their emotional "wants". They need some sort of perceived advantage in a product over other offerings to convince themselves that "want" is a "need" and therefore a worthy expenditure.

If you don't offer enough differentiation between your higher priced products and your competitions' products you make it harder for people to bridge that gap.

I want an adult beverage...

Senator Wyden goes ballistic after US telcos caught selling people's location data yet again

Chairman of the Bored

Re: Ticked Off?

Interesting podcast, that.

Best use of "pissed on" I've seen was in a leaked "360deg feedback" evaluation of a line manager. The line that sticks with me are: "If he were on fire, perhaps I might deign to piss on him, but I'm conflicted."

The other gem was something along the lines of, "Out of millions of sperm, one wonders how his won the race."

We were having some morale problems at the time.

Chairman of the Bored

Re: Ticked Off?

About equal to American "pissed". Assume that's the same as UK "pissed off", but my main exposure to UK "pissed" has involved lots of ethanol.

Better to be "pissed off" than "pissed on" of course.

Chairman of the Bored

Re: Ticked Off?

In US usage, "ticked off" means that one is angry about something. There is no implied action. Intensity of this statement is between "I am annoyed" and "I'm going to fire that tosser".

Put another way, if I've ticked you off we are at the point where a pint may no longer patch things up, but I do not have to worry about any rough stuff.

Chairman of the Bored

A pint for Wyden

Wyden is one of the few senators I respect at this point. Sadly I'm not in his state. My representatives are ... different.

Bish, Bash... gosh! Good ol' Bourne Again Shell takes a bow as it reaches version five-point-zero

Chairman of the Bored

Re: No

Ouch! Too close to home - daughter's first paid job just reverted to an unpaid internship - but have an upvote for a good, sharp reply!

The syntax I used to get out of the gummnit did not use shellcode, I had to write it in resumescript.

You were told to clean up our systems, not delete 8,000 crucial files

Chairman of the Bored

Re: PST files on a network? - NOTWORK


"Um, I hate to say this, but even Microsoft have made it clear that accessing PST files within Outlook across a network is an unsupported configuration."

You are absolutely, totally correct. However, my organization was not entirely competent. Calling the admin "tossers" is probably a bridge too far though as I doubt they could achieve and sustain, let alone produce output.

We were expressly prohibited from keeping any email .pst on local storage- regardless of Microsoft's direction- because there was no backup solution provided for local machines. And in any case the local storage was barely sufficient for Windows Vista (shudder). More storage? Not unless you are a senior executive. Backup critical data? If you're not a senior exec, its not critical. Beancounters.

That's called a stupid sandwich. For extra sauce... we were prohibited from putting "technical" data on the network shares, since our IT contractor owned and operated the net, not the Government. So by definition we had no backups of whatever technical data we could somehow produce on that POS of a system.

I do not miss that job.

Chairman of the Bored

A file so large...

Must be very useful...

But now it is gone.

Gummnit job. Constraints: thou shalt retain copies thy emails. Copies thereof shalt thou keep. Both sent and received shalt thee keep. Outlook .pst files shall be thy instrument of archiving.

And lo! Despite mass storage being too cheap to meter, thy great organization shall set a limit of 512MB for each .pst. File size warning? We know nothing thereof, and shall not configure.

So it came to pass - like a good little boy I dutifully copied all of my emails into their .pst bins. One overflowed without warning and became utterly corrupted. The IT guy attempted to fix it, and the results were ... disappointing. Claims the network share upon which the .pst files reside are backed up proved to as hollow as the archive files generated from them.

A couple of days later I was asked to produce some emails on demand per a FOIA request. THAT did not go well.

I'm just not sure the computer works here – the energy is all wrong

Chairman of the Bored

Radio Talent?

My college had an outstanding radio station, courtesy of some serious alumni connections and $. Our recording studio and broadcast studio were physically separate but connected through some nice, low noise analog links.

Of course when I'm doing an actual live broadcast from the big studio these links died somehow, transmitting nothing but RF hash and 20V p-p or so of 60Hz ground loop goodness.

So in utter desperation we ran audio over 100' of extension cords up a hallway to get the show on air. The sound quality was absolute pants, just unbelievably awful.

But we had some people comment that "we really captured that warm tube distortion" and "best production work yet". Even from the band's rather pathetic groupies. WTF, over?

Chairman of the Bored

Re: Maybe it just needs to know where it is

Absolutely! And from them on all anyone had to do was grasp the handle and the net would work. Absolutely could not figure that out, the connections were not intermittent.

Actually I've got a piece of test equipment on my bench right now that did not start working properly until a circuit board was egregiously destroyed in front of it. No explanation available!

Chairman of the Bored

Maybe it just needs to know where it is

I went to my mom's place of employment to help troubleshoot a printing problem involving a Macintosh, a Laserwriter, and an AppleTalk network. Late 80's sometime.

'twas the dreaded "Laserwriter not found" error.

After I admitted defeat, a really nice secretary came over and shocked us by saying, "I can fix it!" Without another word she picks up the mac by the built in handle, points the monitor towards the printer and says with authority, "Can't find it?

It's right f$cking there." Sorted.

Fake 'U's! Phishing creeps use homebrew fonts as message ciphers to evade filters

Chairman of the Bored

BOFH solution

I worked for a Govt organization that sensibly locked down email clients to text-only mode. Outlook was deliberately crippled to prevent one from enabling anything but plain text.

BOFH part: If you tried to enable html, or send html, or click on a link, you were sent to a "reeducation camp". In this IT Siberia, people are forced to watch presentations on email safety. Powerpoint shows designed to crush the spirit and create unthinking compliance. One viewgraph every 30s for an hour. The quiz at the end requires a perfect score. Imperfect score? Re-do the training.

Full frontal vulnerability: Photos can still trick, unlock Android mobes via facial recognition

Chairman of the Bored

Re: Stupid idea in the US

@Dave 126: nice, did not know that, and it's good to know. Have upvote!

Chairman of the Bored

Stupid idea in the US

For left pondians...

The lawman believes and the courts agree that you have no reasonable expectation of privacy concerning your appearance or fingerprints, as you leave those exposed in public all the time. So you can be compelled to unlock with your mug or prints. I assume this means they can use your photo - its not that much of a legal stretch in an already elastic system.

A PIN on the other hand is stored in your brain, so they need your permission or a court order. YMMV, and I've no clue what the rules are for right pondians.

Now, contemplate the smudge pattern your PIN entry has left on your display and think about a new PIN...

Heard the one where the boss calls in an Oracle consultant who couldn't fix the database?

Chairman of the Bored

Re: Need a little personal help here

Trading rape futures? That's a hell of an edge case for the filter! Sometimes I will do a quick check to see if anyone is actually reading statements of work or work packages by including a Software Hardware Integration Task (SHIT) Job somewhere in the hundreds of lines of a WBS. Occasionally a filter will catch it. Far more rarely, a human will.

Chairman of the Bored

TMI failure

You're quite right that the Power Operated Relief Valve (PORV) indicator screwup was a big part of the failure chain. But there was one indication available that could have provided a clue: PORV valve tailpipe thermocouple readout was undoubtedly high, BUT the design of the control room was so jacked up it might as well have been under a filing cabinet, protected by a jaguar.

Apparently there were so many alarms going off the line printer spitting them out fell behind by hours.

Perhaps not the best user interface design?

Chairman of the Bored

Need a little personal help here

The Marx bank is a type of high voltage generator, sometimes used to drive high power RF sources such as cavity magnetrons - frequently called "maggies"

When a Marx is fired one says it "erected"; google a schematic and you will see why.

So faced with a maggie that failed to thrive, a radar that wouldn't work, and a deadline ... I sent out an email to damn near everyone asking something like: "The e2v maggie is still unhappy. I don't think the pulser is getting an erection. help?"

Best answer: "take matters into your own hand"

Racing at the speed of light, Sage superhero bursts through the door...

Chairman of the Bored

Worst one I've heard of

My dad was an Army officer. He got sucked into the Pentagon for a briefing and got lost in the maze. While looking for the cheese, he split his uniform trousers. With no time to hit the tailor shop, he grabbed a stapler, went to the head, did some itchy-but-effective mods and had a VERY uncomfortable time briefing.

Chairman of the Bored

Re: Not me...


Epic. Have an upvote. Life is too short to waste working for idiots like that; glad you found out what you were getting into up front.

Chairman of the Bored
Thumb Up

Re: Not me...

An upvote for having the common sense to buy her some dinners and make nice. That job sounds like a real treat.

I had a "win" one day; two other guys and I did some field work under some really nasty conditions. As we walked into our building to change, our immediate line manager bumped into us and laid into us for "unprofessional appearance", "careless attitude" and perhaps even "moral depravity"

Just as he asked "what the hell do you think you are doing?!" HIS boss happened to walk up and said to our immediate super, "Well, by the looks of things I'd say they were working their asses off. Unlike you. GTF in my office, now."

Looks at us and says, "Thanks, guys. I will be in touch. Carry on." Took care of us, too. And we got a written apology.

Chairman of the Bored

And then there are...

...company shirts

I have a relative endowed with some fairly large breasts, at least a DD cup but I am neither interested in nor authorized for more information about specific geometry.

She works for a nursing school and the school had some tee shirts made for a picnic. When she tried hers on there were peals of laughter and some mild language. Emerging from her room we all saw displayed - far more prominently than she wanted - St Mary's SCHOOL OF NURSING. With the all caps part stretched across the relevant parts.

Not cool!