so far, so Demon Seed (1977)...
37 posts • joined 16 Mar 2017
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have Indiegogo broken their own rules?
Indiegogo's terms & conditions for campaign owners states the following:
"In order to be approved for Shipping, proof of visual preparation for shipping such as completed components or packaging is required"
- and yet, without recieving any proof of 'visual preperation' or a completed component, Indiegogo have not just approved RCL for shipping, they gave them a *deadline* by which to ship... ?
to gogo or not to gogo...
5 days ago RCL said:
"We would like to thank all of our backers and Indiegogo for their ongoing support and for recognising our perseverance."
today they say:
"Indiegogo have...poured oil on the flames and made it more difficult for us to deliver the Vega+ project"
- and yet in the time which elapsed between those 2 contrasting statements Indiegogo have simply done exactly what they already warned RCL they would do if their requirements were not met on time.
why an extra 2 week extension...
...on a project already 2 yrs overdue? seems weird.
and why were multiple backers recently saying that when they contacted indiegogo to open a case, indiegogo were immediately closing the cases and marking them as 'solved'?
and can anyone possibly explain this:
too much confusion now, too many internal squabbles and sub-squabbles for this to ever reach a proper conclusion.
solution: download spin emu and play Ivan Ironman's Off Road Racer to your heart's content on a laptop. - on the rumoured 2.5inch vega+ screen those little cars would've been too small to see anyway.
There are blatantly no devices. The games list situation is a pre-planned indefinite stalling tactic. The final Vega+ "V2" as they've called it - the device they claimed was just hours away from being sent out - is not a thing. They seemed to have some semi-functioning prototypes at one stage but a finished article has clearly never been manufactured.
On their update to backers in March 2017 they said:
"We’ll have games details coming soon too… stay tuned."
as of now April 2018, has a single game actually been confirmed to be on the Vega+? serious question. If not then how the frig can it be ready to ship? (a gameless games machine, very postmodern...)
"as ludicrous as going after your local paper because the second hand car you bought via the classifieds turns out to be nicked."
you mean if the local paper was one page long, and that lone page was the car ad, and the paper itself took a percentage cut of whatever money you handed over for the car? ...not that ludicrous tbh.
crowdfunding platforms should absolutely be responsible for regulating and monitoring every stage of the investment campaigns they facilitate, in order to nip scams like this one in the bud. otherwise they're really no better than the bad guys.
Re: On the other hand
but....the thing is... RCL clearly stated in plain black and white on their Indiegogo campaign, that any backer who pays "£100 + Shipping" --- shipping, that's a pretty funny thing to be paying for if you're just randomly donating to an 'idea', eh? --- will "OWN a first production run Vega+".
the 2 key words there are "SHIPPING" and "OWN".
If they didn't mean it, then it's their fault for specifically saying it, in very unambiguous terms, from the outset.
up to very recently Lee Fogarty had spent this entire campaign zealously telling all Vega+ doubters sceptics and 'trolls' that they were going to end up with egg on their faces and that it was definitely going to be delivered.
his sudden u-turn on RCL is bizarre and doesn't make any logical sense, if you've been following this soap opera.
because there is a difference between (1) a genuine failure where the company makes an honest effort to bring the product to fruition, and (2) one where the product 'fails' because the company spends all the money on something else, while blatantly lying to their backers about the progress being made.
the vast majority of crowdfunders in scenario (1) would not be asking for a refund. The Vega+ however is a case of scenario (2), and backers obviously feel entitled to their cash.
Re: Welcome to the world of investing
Yep, and I totally agree with you...in theory.
However, in practice, the Indiegogo campaign here clearly states that for a specific amount of money (£100 plus p+p) all backers will "Own a first production run Vega+". - and they also stated the device was ready to go into production. Hardly sounds like a random punt now does it?
If what they actually meant was "please donate as much or as little as you want, then if you're lucky we *might* send you something." then they should've said that from the outset. (and I wonder how much of that half a mil they'd have made in just a few days in that case.)
do the math(s)
Indiegogo (which, correct me if I'm wrong, makes its money by taking a cut of backer contributions) *stopped* any new backers from funding this project over 8 months ago. And in that subsequent 8+ months RCL have failed to provide any evidence of production, merely a long list of proposed delivery dates - all of which pass by, never to be referred to again.
You don't even need to delve into the whole pile of other damning evidence being dug up to reasonably conclude that RCL are pulling a fast one.
RCL'S latest 'surprise' update in which they post a video of Europe's "The Final Countdown" (and then post another update also about the song) just looks extremely amateur and unprofessional, not to mention entirely unconvincing. I've treated headlice with more respect than RCL treat their backers.
And their continual assertion that they are being impeded by a small hardcore group of haters when it is obvious that it's a big hardcore majority of (mostly) reasonable people who invested money in them and are now quite understandably voicing their concerns, is laughable.
as RCL have said numerous times to their own backers in the Indiegogo comments section: the more questions you ask about this project, the more you are slowing it down and delaying the Vega+ delivery. RCL were saying this to their backers way before xmas so I don't see why it wouldn't still apply now.
Just stop posting these articles asking questions about (and drawing attention to) RCL and the Vega+, because it's causing delays...
Re: Gareth Corfield is somewhat Biased here...
"there is no guarantee of getting a piece of hardware at the end. "
In that case why does RCL's indiegogo page emphatically state in black and white that for a specific sum of money (£100) all backers will "own" a specific piece of hardware (a Vega+)?
If the whole idea of crowdfunding is basically the 'hit and hope' type venture you describe then surely they should've said "please donate as much or as little as you can spare and then if you're lucky you *might* get something back at the end".
so many unanswered questions about this whole campaign. I'm most intrigued about the curious "threats of violence" which have been plaguing the project virtually since day one, according to RCL. I mean is this a handheld nostalgia device for aging speccy geeks, or some top secret international espionage mission that even 007 would pee his pants in fear over? ridiculous.
anyone whose been following George Bum's youtube channel 'FUNKYSPECTRUM' knows he's been calling out RCL as dodgy dealers over the Vega+ debacle for the best part of a year now. his xmas special (done in the style of a radio play) was a laugh... not sure I'd want to be stuck in a lift with him though.
The Indiegogo page clearly states on this project that for a £100 contribution a backer will: "Own a first production run Vega+". It's there in black and white. That's a clearly defined incentive to part with cash, is it not? According to most repliers above, RCL should be within their rights to turn around and say 'ah well, bad luck folks...that's the risk of crowdfunding!' and not deliver anything. To me it just doesn't sound right.
as has been stated, crowdfunding is a risk. a gamble. some you win, some you lose
and with that, I announce my own crowdfundng project: The Sinclair ZX Vega+++ Turbo Deluxe V2.0 Platinum Edition. - does everything RCL's one (apparently) does, but also takes your bins out, correctly predicts national lottery numbers, and makes the toast... £105 and you're in, with the added guarantee that it either will or won't get made. form an orderly queue.