Posts by bombastic bob

Keep calm and learn Rust: We'll be seeing a lot more of the language in Linux very soon

Re: aggregious

eh the spell checker accepted it. what the hell... it's late at night here and this font is too small to read properly with.

*DOH*

Re: You spend a lot of time talking about C++

and there are MANY reasons why C++ is not being used within the kernel.

all of that housekeeping for unwinding things in the event of try/catch is number one.

And the fact that try/catch exists is unfortunately an indicator that if C++ *WERE* used n the kernel, a bunch of clueless newbies would try making use of it... to the detriment of EVERYTHING. Point is, if a lingo has "a feature" some people will eventually use it, even if it is BAD to do so.

it falls under "just because you can, does not mean you should". And I include Rust in that analysis as well.

The C language is efficient (and close to the assembly language it's compiled into) because it _IS_ by design. it's more or less why the language was invented, back when UNIX was ALSO being invented and it needed to be programmed in a language that was close to assembly, but portable enough to compile on multiple platforms.

Let's NOT just throw caution to the wind and adopt an incompletely tested programming lingo just because "Junior" likes it.

Now it seems that a SUBSET of Rust is being considered. That may be acceptable, just like a subset of C++ is used on microcontrollers that use the Arduino IDE. Some of C++'s more aggregious "trying to be all and do all" quirks have been carefully omitted, with respect to startup code and constructors and other things that just bloat up a limited program memory space. It's all documented over on the avr-gcc web pages at any rate.

So I would want similar from Rust: interoperability and fast/compact code should be number 1. Having a bunch of "but if" and "just in case" [paranoid] data checks and double checks in the code [thus stealing CPU cycles for pointless error checks] should be EXCLUDED (and such checks performed MANUALLY by coders, instead, like in C]. Automatic "features" that create inefficiency, in other words, should NEVER be used in the kernel.

The kernel guarantees certain things are valid. Properly written drivers would do the same thing. if it is necessary to add code that double-checks parameters to guarantee valid data/pointers/etc. then you might as well be WINDOWS. Linux should be SO good that such things are NOT necessary.

(so that gets back to how Rust is expected to be used, but I suspect perormance prioblems WILL be the most immediate concern and Linux runs on embedded and low clock speed devices for the very reason that it is STILL small and efficient by comparison to other things. Like WINDOWS)

Rolls-Royce set for funding fillip to build nuclear power stations based on small modular reactor technology

Re: One million homes - I don't think so

small reactors, as I pointed out before, typically have negative temperature coefficients, which mean that they can respond to varying demand much better than a coal, oil, or large nuclear plant could.

In short, as temperature goes up, power will drop, stabilizing the system.

Large reactors typically have positive temperature coefficients, making them inherently unstable. They raise power slowly, then maintain it at a constant for weeks/months at a time. Hydro, wind, and diesel plants take up the peaks. SMR would eliminate the need of peaker plants and varying load on hydro and wind. So it's a good thing if you believe that CO2 is hurting the planet.

(I do not believe CO2 is a problem but nuke power is a good thing anyway)

Re: Some submarine!

sub reactors are small enough to fit in a sub. Right?

And the rest of the area might be needed for secondary systems, power distribution equipment, nuclear waste storage, and the obligatory cooling towers to reject the "2nd law of thermodynamics" heat.

Waste re-processing and recycling needs to be taken SERIOUSLY.

And then we should be OK. Fusion is a decade or two away and we have PLENTY of Uranium and Thorium to build small reactors until then.

Re: This is good

Why not streamline the construction of nuke plants because they MAKE SENSE ???

And this SMR thing sounds like it would help. A LOT.

/me points out that the greenies who love electric cars should want a non-CO2 power source to charge them. Otherwise, you need coal and oil plants to provide enough power for your "green" electric cars, and when you do the math like I have, you can see that you need MORE than a single family dwelling's worth of surface area for solar panels to adequately charge your 25-50 mile per day electric car.

So do you want to REALLY reduce "carbon footprint" ??? Or, is it about controlling the FREEDOM of the average non-elite???

* If you believe that CO2 is a problem and you do NOT support nuclear, you are a HYPOCRITE

So there is a need to reprocess and recycle [not all of the fuel can be utilized, fission productsl have industrial uses, and nuclear waste has useful things in it like unspent fuel and useful fission products]

If you do it right, the waste will be minimized. And maybe the decay heat can become useful, too. You have to think CONSERVATIVE to see this...

But yeah be a doom and gloon anti-nuke woke activist and you'll get the upvotes from the choir, which is really a SMALL percentage of the population.

Re: Nuclear powered shaver.

Small reactors (like those used on subs) are actually SAFER but a bit more expensive due to the highlty enriched fuel they will need.

a) Small size = negative "alpha T" (temp coefficient) meaning that they can respond better to varying loads. (this means increase in temperature causes power to become lower, a stable configuration)

b) no "all eggs in one basket" solution. Instead, distributed power sources. More reliable, at least in theory

c) modular design minimizing construction costs, maximizing profitability as long as the staffing requirement isn't too high.

I think it is an EXCELLENT idea, seeing as I operated a reactor on a submarine for almost 4 years.

(that means I know what I am talking about)

Bullseye! Debian-based Raspberry Pi OS scores an update with 'less closed-source proprietary code'

Re: Why?

there is nothing wrong with forking OLDER versions (i.e. without the bloat) and just maintaining them separately...

Re: "making things feel a bit more modern"

massive upvote for criticizing the obvious mis-use of the term "modern"

Also worth pointing out: what about older RPis with less than 1G of RAM ???

Apparently someone isn't looking at the BIG picture and existing install base.

Truck, sweet truck: Volvo's Chinese owner unveils methanol/electric truck with bathroom and kitchen

Re: Methanol as a store of energy for a fuel cell

how much electricity will this require?

(rhetorical question actually)

Re: Methanol as a store of energy for a fuel cell

Diesel fuel is liquid energy, highly concentrated and relatively inexpensive compared to other fuels. Diesel engines are also very efficient (large scale engines as high as 50%), which is why they are used EVERYWHERE when it comes to producing propulsion power on a large scale (and flexible electric power on a moment's notice, i.e. "peaking" plants). I cannot imagine the physical size of fuel cells and fuel tanks that can crack methanol JUST to get the hydrogen, compared to that of a diesel engine.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2092678216302175

This article looks very favorably on fuel cells, but it is based on mathematical models, and not actual equipment. What it DOES say is that fuel cell systems are 40-60% efficient on HYDROGEN, or perhaps methane (I may have missed that detail scanning the article). Other fuels require some kind of 'cracking' which could dramatically lower efficiency, and the heat content (volumetrically and by weight) of "lightweight" fuels isn't as good as the heavier ones (like diesel fuel). Hydrogen gas is typically produced in large quantities using COAL, and the tanks that hold it are LARGE by comparison. Methanol tanks would ALSO need to be larger than diesel. So unless we have a spacecraft with liquid H2 and O2 available, fuel cells [from a practical standpoint] make less sense than classic diesel engines.

And In My Bombastic Opinion, re-purposing existing (proven) tech (diesel electric has been used in trains for a LONG time, for example) is better than trusting some new, shiny unproven tech too soon.

Apparently there is one fuel cell powered ship in operation in Germany, using hydrogen. My guess is that it does not scale well (like to an entire fleet) at this time.

Re: sorta like a motor home instead of a sleeper cab

not sure why methanol instead of diesel fuel though. Diesel tanks would be physically smaller, and the engine more efficient. It's the nature of the fuel. Alcohols are already "partially oxidized" causing them to have less heat content.

The focus seemed to be more on the electric side, though, swapping out the entire battery assembly and things like that. In my view, a diesel generator would be separate but connected up MOSTLY to charge batteries while you're stopped (or maybe run while you drive for hill climbing). Maybe it's the kind of thinking that comes from having been on a submarine...

An advantage to not running the diesel generator continuously is that when an engine is operating at max power it's also operating at (or close to) max efficiency. This is especially true for diesel engines due to the way they work. In general they should pollute less in this configuration, and you would not have to run the thing inside a city (let's say) and just run on batteries within urban areas when you can. Then of course when you need the extra power to climb hills you'd have both batteries AND diesel engine to do that.

But mostly, it would charge batteries when you're stopped. I guess [un]loading counts for that, too.

sorta like a motor home instead of a sleeper cab

that's my take on it - aside from the autonomous claims.

An actual truck driver might appreciate not having to get a hotel room or even go to a truck stop for cross-country hauling though. This is a thing in the USA where it might take a few days to get from one coast to the other, with Rocky Mountains in between.

(or it's a place to "wait it out" if you get stuck at the bottom of a mountain because the pass is frozen or filled with mudslides or something similar)

I would have included a diesel generator to at least partially re-charge while you sleep.

The return of the turbo button: New Intel hotness causes an old friend to reappear

Re: I would lucky b**tard to anyone who has a Scroll Lock key

why don't we turn off DRM instead, and just leave the scroll lock key as-is ???

New year, new OS: OneDrive support axed for old versions of Windows from 1 Jan 2022

Re: A remote personal file server is the way to go.

might be even cheaper to get a rent-a-server with ssh access. Then use scp or sftp to copy things onto it, and maybe the web server to download it (if you want it public anyway).

DSL costs quite a bit more than a rent-a-server last I checked. And the bandwidth would be better.

Re: Free cloud storage killed the home NAS companies

ZFS is pretty cool, yeah. I boot into ZFS on my workstations for 3-4 years now.

Periodic 'zpool scrub' spotted a hard drive going bad before any real data loss. It's a real butt-saver.

(it's used on FreeNAS as well, as I recall)

[And last I checked OneDrive does not work for FreeBSD or Linux anyway]

Re: Free cloud storage killed the home NAS companies

do you really want your mp3 collection to be stored on someone else's server, subject to THEIR whims?

just thought I'd point that out. I have to wonder how much marketing information can be gleaned from someone's preferences in music... or whether the content's owner has legit copies or not, etc.

[de-duplication algorithms might look at binary mismatches as "possible copyright infringement" - just sayin']

Re: OneDrive

(see icon)

Linux PC shop System76 is building a new desktop environment in Rust

Re: Build back better?

interoperability notwithstanding (it better be there by default), as long as it's not time wasted RE-WRITING things into the new lingo, I'm somewhat OK with it. But there was once a big hype over ADA, but of course THAT fell apart. And Python (in some ways) took over a lot of what was once being done in Perl, so that worked out ok.

As long as the programming lingo being chosen is "fit for purpose" and does not create BLOATWARE, let them do what they want.

I'd just as well write in plain old 'C'.

Re: What's the point?

maybe they should allow writing the stuff in CRAYON

Re: Let us hope ...

if it looks like TraditionalOk instead of Adwaita, I'll consider it... (I really *HATE* the 2D FLATSO and the too-skinny-to-grab-with-a-mouse Faux-scrollbars of Adwaita, which is unfortunately the DEFAULT for GTK 3, and somewhat difficult to change properly within Mate on FBSD).

Worthy of mention, THIS:

export QT_AUTO_SCREEN_SET_FACTOR 0

export QT_SCALE_FACTOR 1

export QT_FONT_DPI 120

export GDK_SCALE 1

export GDK_DPI_SCALE 1

And make sure the default GTK 3 theme has been changed from 'Adwaita' to 'TraditionalOK' using

gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.preferences theme 'TraditionalOk'

This should fix anything relying on GTK3 except FF and Tbird which NOW need some special help in about:config (and the Tbird equivalent of editing the advanced settings):

widget.content.gtk-theme-override 'TraditionalOk'

widget.non-native-theme.enabled false

(now if SLACK would just HONOR _MY_ PREFERENCES...)

(probably other stuff too, but I recently installed newer stuff and I had to do this to FIX ANYTHING GTK3 from having UGLY WORTHLESS FAUX SCROLLBARS in addition to any kind of FLATSO look)

anyway just thought I'd mention that... (it took way too long to figure out what to do about this, even with online searches and RTFM'ing)

Now that's a splash down: Astronauts spend 8-hour trip to Earth in diapers after SpaceX capsule toilet breaks

I'm sure BOEING would have gotten the toilets to work

nevermind reliably flying into space with an actual crew on board. And returning them to Earth. Alive.

OK I just had to say that. Well, THAT, and... POO! IN! SPACE!!!

[coat, please]

Oregon city courting Google data centers fights to keep their water usage secret

Re: Ammonia

some of what you say, yeah, but not entirely accurate. still in principal you're in the right ball park.

Think of it this way: air conditioners are heat pumps. you compress a fluid or concentrate a salt, and then cool it (the 'hot' side, cooling tower or radiator fins). Then you expand the fluid or dilute the salt, causing it to get colder, and then it absorbs heat from the chilled air/water system (getting warmer in the process), and the cycle repeats.

Using an air-only radiator causes a size problems in large systems due to the large amount of heat that needs to be rejected. So, unlike a refrigerator or air conditioner in your house (or car/RV), they need to cool it using water and use a cooling tower to get rid of that large amount of heat.

They're not really getting rid of the water, though. They''re rejecting the heat. The water evaporates as part of the process. This process still works even in areas that have high temp+humidity so long as the chillers are designed to still work efficiently with very hot cooling water [like maybe in Florida].

Re: 21st century

the lightest of CFCs is chloro-flouro-methane. It's about 2.5 times heavier than air. To get it to go UP you need a VOLCANO. I have worked with refrigerants and when I was in the Navy, a valve snapped of one of the air conditioning units while the boat was in port.; It took the ventilation system over 24 hours to get it out, and they had to put portable air blowers in the lower areas of the engine room to stir the air up enough, because REFRIGERANT IS SO HEAVY compared to air. And if you can't easily make it go up less than 50 feet, how the HELL does it go up 80,000 feet?

So yes, exactly what you said about refrigerant and ozone. In a lab it depletes ozone. In the atmosphere the CFC-like chemicals are put up there by VOLCANOS. If you calculate like for a hot air balloon, you would have to heat the lightest CFC to over 1200F to get it to rise up, and of course it would either break down or cool off before getting there.

But using CFCs to cool things down happens inside the building, most likely, making chilled water, and using cooling towers to reject the waste heat that is "heat pumped" by the chillers. The chillers themselves typically use CFCs (some use LiBr but those would use engine jacket water and exhaust cooling water from a cogen system). Then they have waste heat that uses a cooling tower. That's how I've seen it done when i worked at a hotel decades ago.

So: chiller makes chilled water at 50-55F on one end, and heats the cooling water (on the other end of the chillers) which leaves at 80-85F (sometimes hotter) and goes into a partially evaporative cooling tower in a semi-closed system, but of course you get evaporation etc..

So yeah that is the typical design. And cogen systems still need cooling towers.

Re: Astonished

every few decades NW USA gets droughts. Usually it is VERY rainy. But here's the thing: they are under contract to provide water for parts of California, and the contracts may not account for drought periods (as rare as they are, they still happen). In the mid-1970's I recall this happening before, and there was a bit of reform since water got rationed in Oregon while people in LA were hosing down their cars, and of course there was quite a bit of outrage. So yeah, the supply dropped a bit, but the demand stays about the same. And (probably) nobody takes responsibility for the poor planning.

After a year or two, beyond the El Niño and La Niña effects, it should be back to normal. But they need to plan for it and not ignore history. And California needs to stop feeding its limited drinking water to the delta smelt...

(/me bombastically points out that if delta smelt are as delicious as sardines, people would farm them and like cows, we'd NEVER run out, and it would take a LOT LESS WATER do farm them than to dump our limited drinking water into the Sacramento river to "save" them. So let's come up with some good recipes...)

Re: Not all water is potable water, but only potable water is used for cooling at Dalles.

They COULD use grey water... but:

Depending on the quality of 'grey water' keep in mind that water used for cooling towers will affect the atmosphere in the area if there are bacteria etc. in it. Legionaire's Disease came from a cooling towere that had bad bacteria in the water.

Decades ago I worked at a hotel and the air conditioning used a cooling tower. We put a floating pool chlorinater in it to maintain the correct water chemistry. But yeah Legionaire's Disease was recently on people's minds back then, yet the precautions to prevent it were not all that hard.

I suppose if the grey water is as clean as the tap water, it would work well enough for cooling towers. Properly chlorinated, of course.

we have the technology...

I would suggest building de-sal plants if you need more water. There's a really big ocean out there, after all. There's also waste water recycling, sometimes (jokingly) called "toilet to tap", though the effluent treated water is USUALLY cleaner than regular tap water (regardless of whether it was excreted from someone's kidneys).

In a 1st world country there is NO excuse for a shortage of water, ESPECIALLY when you are near the ocean. If you do not have enough, you MAKE MORE. SImple.

San Diego County has a de-sal plant that provides a significant amount of water for the region (I think it is around 20% of total water usage). If more of these plants are built, droughts affecting water availability would be a thing of the past.

NASA advised to study up on what open source, free software, and permissive licenses actually mean

Re: CEO of an undisclosed startup

my corporation has been "a startup" since the early 90's.

Re: What free means

free as in free beer would be "public domain" which is one option.

But, many authors want to restrict what is done with their works. Therefore you have GPL, MIT, BSD, Apache, and other licenses (as well as public domain).

The most common in Linux seems to be GPL, specifically v2 for the kernel (and I hope it never becomes v3). gcc added exceptions for static linking binaries. llvm does not appear to have any such restrictions. And so there is choice.

But seriously it should be plain and obvious how these licenses work,. And since NASA is government, i.e. "the people":, they should either GPL, BSD, MIT, or public domain ANYTHING they create that is not somehow classified (like for military applications).

It seems that photographs taken by the U.S. government are often already treated as public domain. A quick scan of wiki-media proves that. So similarly with software mods done by NASA, especially if they're trying to use Linux on spacecraft or aircraft.

They just need to do what business owners and contractors have done like, forever - put on the lawyer hat for a moment and apply common sense.

(and the FSF gladly answers GPL licensing questions which I've asked before)

Microsoft: Many workers are stuck on old computers and should probably upgrade

Re: Productivity peaked around Windows 2000 Professional, perhaps XP

no flames, just a recommendation: Boot Linux, run XP in a virtualbox VM.

I think that will work best for ya. Try it, you'll like it!!! Use the same license key, even. And backups of an XP VM should be a BREEZE (export virtual machine - voila!)

then you will not need NTFS partitions and can make it 100% Ext4. If you got a new hard drive, did a fresh install, and tar-copied your /home it would go fast, then maybe turn the old NTFS partition into a virtual drive for VBox [I think you might get away with a copy utility for this part]. EVEN FASTER!

Re: "the same kit they had at the start of the pandemic."

my 14 year old spare workstation went titsup recently, had to get new motherboard+cpu+ram+power supply (had a case ready to go though). Same hard drive, though (running FreeBSD). Booted immediately like nothing had happened.

Re: Or

Use more efficient software.

GOOD! JOB! (nice way to lead off the comments)

I might add that Micros~1 should WRITE MORE EFFICIENT SOFTWARE

Oh, the irony of it all...

getting full use out of your hardware is probably more eco friendly than tossing it for something that can run Windows II, regardless of whether or not the old one gets recycled - in the place this stuff is usually made, they are apparently not too concerned with polluting their environment - seen photos of Beijing air quality? And none of these hardware makers, Micros~1 included, would be very happy if China were to implement the kinds of air quality standards (for example) that we have in the places that CONSUME the things they make, for it would increase their costs SIGNIFICANTLY. So, indirectly, they POLLUTE *OVER* *THERE* instead, then attend conferences to show how much they *CARE* about the environment...

(and they could AT LEAST do something practical, instead, that does NOT require replacing perfectly good equipment JUST to run their BLOATWARE)

Waterfox: A Firefox fork that could teach Mozilla a lesson

Re: The Browsers Are The Symptom, not The Problem

you mean HTML, not HTTPS, right? Those are different things.

'curl' can use HTTPS (for example) and return back the web page (or whatever) as a file. A browser RENDERS it. It's this 2nd part (rendering) that seems to be all FUBAR these days...

HTML and CSS and (ugh) Javascript for web pages are over-complicated with never-ending "UP"grades and moving target specs.

THAT is the *nightmare*

Re: I'd love to try Waterfox, but there's a problem...

I sometimes do the build from source option, at least when you are NOT in a hurry and there are no ports/packages available. But depending on your setup, it may take more work than you want to put into it (like manually loading dependencies and source/dev packages on most Linux platforms).

If there are no install instructions, are there at least BUILD instructions for Waterfox? (I see no FreeBSD port for it, either).

Re: Mozilla is the modern Xerox

(someone actually said "mean spirited" and MEANT it? Try being ME some time, you'll grow a shell and start laughing at it)

If _I_ ever meet them, I'll ask why they have NOT fixed the 2D FLATSO AUSTRALIS by PUTTING BACK a PROPER 3D SKEUOMORPHIC UI (as an option, at least) instead of CLONING CHROME...

(I bet a clever person could even do it with CSS)

Re: Handy? In case? Your provider?

you know, e-mail is not that hard (it may take some RTFM'ing but it's not that hard once you understand what needs to be done). I've messed with Perl scripts that work with IMAP to filter things, auto-send mail with data files attached, and things like that. Writing a GUI wrapper around the Perl scripts would NOT be that hard, using GTK or something like it. I think it's been done a few times, too...

(the "use Email" Perl modules also correctly handle SSL and TLS and other such things)

And yeah, NO HTML MAIL if *I* wrote it (MY turn to be an arrogant developer, heh). I'd filter out all HTML elements and display it THAT way as an alternative, for those mail clients that *ARROGANTLY* *DO* *NOT* *SEND* *EQUIVALENT* *PLAIN* *TEXT* along with that (BLANKETY BLANK) HTML content.

And this is ONE thing that Thunderbird has ALWAYS gotten right: "View message content as plain text". ALWAYS selected, on MY mail clients!

I have noticed that a lot of spam mail often says "Hello, xxx" as the only plain text. It becomes a filter (in my mind anyway - need to find out how to train/modify T-bird's filter for that).

No/Incorrect Plain Text ==> JUNK FILE [maybe it can be an addon?]

Re: Open source closed devs

if you use menuconfig every time, you're doing it wrong. (first time useful, though)

I typically just hand-edit the appropriate file(s) and use "make oldconfig", for those increasingly rare cases where dynamic modules cannot be used. Or, if I fix something and just rebuild with the patch applied [and this part is why 'oldconfig' exists].

But now the topic is going off into the weeds, and the point is really that developers aren't making software for other developers. They're making it for THEMSELVES, and TOO OFTEN are arrogantly IGNORING others (including other developers). So we end up with a lot of forked versions of popular projects, ones that are popular because of convenience, not necessarily about how things are implemented.

Maybe it's because not enough of these "developers" worked in 'customer service' jobs when they were teenagers, and INSTEAD were *INDOCTRINATED* (instead of educated) in high school and (especially) college, and ultimately graduated from the "My Shit Does Not Stink" program with honors.

Re: Open source closed devs

the only "monoculture" here seems to be among the "big tech" development groups that manage projects like Gnome, Mozilla, Chromium, yotta yotta and as mentioned already, HOW MUCH OF THAT is directly influenced by Apple, Google, and Micros~1 ???

"We are the Borg" etc.

Re: informative article.

You should realize that microsoft has reached it's claws deep into mozilla at this point as well

Yes, it DOES explain a lot.

Re: root is the new Administrator

you reminded me of those "Cancel or Allow" Mac vs PC commercials

strangely, they stopped...

Re: Waterfox Classic is from FF56, trouble with more websites

some sites tell you to upgrade simply because you are using NoScript (and the latest Firefox, go fig)

Re: Forks are a sign of success.

non-UI features can be deal with via plugins.

It's the "MODERN" UI that irritates me... and they somewhat-recently did it to THUNDERBIRD as well. I used to see actual dialog boxes in settings for T-bird (FreeBSD ports from a couple of years ago, version 60-something - still worked with the retro UI plugin). Not any more. Apparently, THIS is what happens when they "continue to develop" it.

Re: Agree

the simplifications they **FEEL** obliged to push down on us users is infuriating.

emphasis mine. They certainly are NOT THINKING, that's for sure!!

Cisco requires COVID-19 shots for all US staff – even remote workers

Re: The medical powerhouse that is CISCO...

I'm demonstrably more productive working from home. All my stuff is here. Often it's better stuff than on site. And I can work when I'm more productive that way. But it takes self-discipline and a LOT of people may not be able to pull that off. There have been a few El Reg articles on this. I suppose I could use a search engine to pull one up but I'll leave that as an exercise for others.

Re: The medical powerhouse that is CISCO...

yeah from a medical science perspective you could call certain vaccines "100%" although if you get nitty you can find some risk factors and ineffectiveness in EVERYTHING.

Still, 'cow pox' (the first vaccine ever) helped to establish 'herd imunity' which basically killed smallpox. Of course we still vaccinate people with something that has been well tested for decades as to its safety and effectiveness, to KEEP it that way. And of course, other things too,.

And, seriously, that is the goal of ANY vaccine, to make sure that herd immunity prevents the disease from killing a lot of people. Either partial immunity (mild disease symptoms only) or outright 100% immunity is just as effective. The thing you also want to consider is those who are already immune... where a vaccine might actually be WORSE (a cytokine storm, for example). Only the China Flu seems to have a HUGE number of people trying to mandate those who have already recovered from the disease to get vaccinated ANYWAY... REGARDLESS of any extended risk factors vs NO benefit.

(and that of course reflects a LOT of ignorance about science among those who INSIST on mandating vaccines)

Re: The medical powerhouse that is CISCO...

if you only knew how hard I was laughing at the moment...

This reminds me of one of the 'Lethal Weapon' movies where Mel Gibson as Riggs said "Am I getting to you? Am I getting to you? Am I getting to you?"

heh heh heh heh heh

(sometimes this is just TOO much fun!)

Re: The medical powerhouse that is CISCO...

I can be your test case, since it's been nearly TWO years since I had my China Flu fever.

Doing fine. Not worried. And if VACCINATED people "can spread" the thing, why does ANY of this matter? Protect YOURSELF, if you fear it. Leave the REST of us ALONE.

Re: The medical powerhouse that is CISCO...

heh - the humor in your post is appreciated

Re: Get rid of the religious exemption.

It was supposed to be ironic, actually