Fully the average is 68Mbps must be going off the same bad infomation making ISP supply services nbn cant deliver.
Considering there own nitrate claim the 2/3 Can't even get more than 75Mbps. Blow up you silly claim lol
171 posts • joined 13 Dec 2014
"It costs the same to deliver a 12Mbps speed and a 1Gbps speed connection. What the above statement misses is the need to upgrade backhaul (including routers & switches) to cope with increased traffic."
Funny about increase traffic when the last mile is only required to deliver 25Mbps. What the cost of increase that so far it's $10k - $150k per house.
"Labor cleverly decided that revenue growth would come from data growth"
Considering only counts for 1/3 on the income for nbn.
"those on faster speeds who foolishly select a provider with unlimited data plans experience congestion in the evening."
Even those on slower speed experience congestion. Cvc is 1Mbps between all ISP. But then hfc has a physical congestion of 1Mbps atm and fttn has a 5Mbps congestion fttp has 80Mbps congestion.
"For the past 4 years people have been ordering slower speeds than Labor predicted."
How many on 12Mbnps? Is it more than 50% as your claiming
"We as in the 14% ordering 100Mbps? Not the ordinary 84% ordering 25Mbps or slower. At the start you mentioned price sensitivity, yet propose building a more expensive network than Labor planned which would push up costs.
Can you not see the gap between fibre fanboi fantasies and the real world?"
So we have 16% on 100Mbps for fttp but only 9% on fttn. Plus the 14% are making more revune than the 84% But copper fanbois cant tell the difference
Yes it is a tech problem.
Nbn gives the ISP a possible speed range they think the copper can do. Customer chose the faster said they where told they could get. Copper in such a bad shape it doesn't get the speed Custer was toe they could get. Neither optus or nbn bother to tell the customer they not getting that speed
"So you expected to be in the <1% that Labor expected would be able to afford 1Gbps in 2026?"
So do you know what price it would be selling for by then? $50 like it is in some countries now? that seems affordable.
"To be on a 100Mbps plan puts you in the top 14% of Australia." Considering FTTP is around 16% and FTTN below 10%
"If you are happy with speed tiers then expect to move or pay more for the fast speeds that only a small minority can afford." As I have shown you time and again that small minority are the one paying for the NBN but not anymore as they cant even get those speeds anymore.
"384 premises are served by 2Gbps and this could easily be upgraded to 20Gbps " LoL but do you realise that it doesn't change to speed over get over your copper. If you can only get 15Mbps you will still only get 15Mbps. nice to see your a mouth piece for the nbn now lol.
"The LNP reducing the price of CVC from $20 to $14 is actually going to make it significantly harder to reduce the price of AVC and hence it will suppress demand for higher speeds." your fanboi copper model is requiring more revenue in CVC now than what labor plan was. But then your copper fanboi model was only going to cost $29B and complete by last year
Interesting number, but the reality is that for Telstra only 14% of their customers are willing to pay for 100Mbps.
In reality 56% of customer willing to pay for higher spends cant get those speeds so much for your 68% claim. But then in reality fttn isnt even in the double digits % for 100Mbps.
You know that during the 18mth nbn is required to deliver 12mbps which some people cant get.
" Except that is wrong because at the end of Jun Telstra had 532,805 FTTN connections"
NBN at the end of may had 631,111 active FTTN connection. so if Telstra has 50% market share works out to be 300,000
But then 56% of Telstra customers on 100Mbps can not get 100Mbps. 26% on 100mbps or 50Mbps can get those speeds. Hell there are even customers that cant get min 25Mbps or even the 12Mbps you have claimed nbn has to deliver
Lol and in 5 to 10 years people start complaining about being unable to get better speeds becuase people like you said you chose those speeds deal with it lol.
4% ah that mythical made up number but please try again when I counted it with figures from a report about broadband speeds you as all ways ignore as it doesn't suit your copper fanboy status. Like you still have explain how a $150k for isnt a digital divide lol
Your position is that a priviliged few (<14%) should enjoy speeds on a goverment network that through different technologies are denied to others.
"My simple position is that if FTTN adequately meets the demands of >80% then that is all the government is required to provide. Those who require more have two choices move to an FTTP location or technology change."
But in your delusional mind thats not a digital divide lol. If the move how could they if the user purchase demand they connect fibre which cost up to $150k. Lol
"Move evidence of your irrational fibre fanboi logic by picking an extreme unreferenced number."
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.itnews.com.au/news/first-nbn-fibre-extension-comes-in-150000-312027&ved=0ahUKEwiS_MWwqt7WAhWKULwKHbciAXIQFghCMAI&usg=AOvVaw3Y8LhcB2fqImGC6NRZoYGO but then I guess you only read your fanboy status quo.
"Most suggest FTTN to FTTP will cost between $5,000 to $15,000. Less than a kitchen renovation and less than stamp duty." But then you do no reference lol
"The percentage on 100Mbps on FTTP has barely changed in the last 4 years. You should know this, but have this belief system that demand is sitting there waiting to explode."
Lol no you claim it was going down. Well considering users on fttn had to be move down speeds due to fttn cant deliver it. Most people on ADSL already know how goid there copper is no wonder fttn can barely get into doublle digits for 100Mbps lol
"Sadly, you cannot distinguish between your personal desire and the reality of the general population"
Yes you can't as polls have shown they would prefer fttp lol
"Unfortunately unlimited data plans have contributed to the lack of demand for faster speeds because faster plans mean more data can be downloaded adding to the cost, whereas faster plans on the same quota have little impact on the network."
Another spin and liie with nothing to back it up with but keep trying lol
"The only significant move in speed in ADSL was triggered by Internode installing DSLAMs into exchanges and offering uncapped speeds. TPG with FTTB are somewhat similar offering either 12Mbps or 100Mbps for $10 extra."
Ahh so 5 years after ADSL started in Australia lol. But please keep trying lol your busted google claim lol
"Again yet more unsubstansiated fibre fanboi wishful thinking. FTTB is an entirely separte product to FTTN" please try again. The accc does that the nbn doesnt. Should I go back here on these forums where I have points to your exact claim the the link you even provided stated as much. But please try again I know it goes against your fanboy status of saying to same thing over again might make it come true lol.
"Your selfishness in not caring that most Australians were going to be denied the benefits of the NBN enabled LNP to replace FTTP with HFC & FTTN because it met the requirements of >80%."
Lol your selfiness in not caring that most Australians are now denied any benefits and any further speed increases. As you you figures for what people are choosing now considering most Australians have never had speeds in the double digits. Would have love to seen your argement vs dial up and ADSL when it came out. What was ADSL traction 5 or 10 years after it came out?. Your lack of any foresight shows you want to deny Australian any speed increase unless they can afford the cost of up to $150k. We
can already see whaat has happeen in other counties. But then you always ignore it.
"If the cost is a small amount then why are only 14% and shrinking selecting 100Mbps?"
Has fttp % changed in the last 4 years? But please try the spin again. But then love how you ignore if we use your delusional argument of a digital divide. If $30 is A small amount causing a digital divide in choice. What would you call $150k choice for the same speeds? I won't expect an answer as its ruins you delusional spin as alwasys lol.
"I've repeatedly given you references to the NBNCo Corporate Plan and ACCC NBN Wholesale Market Indicators Report but I doubt you have even read these documents."
Lol you keep banging on about the fttp corporate plan which was a guide line. You have had to shift from 50% on 12/1 to 80% On 25Mbps or less because the o12/1 doesnt support you fanboy status anymore lol.
"If it is spin then I suggest that you provide the references and calculations to substantiate your claims."
In the link you have provided but I guess you have trouble working out %. Or again doesnt support you fanboy status.
"Delusional is suggesting everyone on FTTN (<40% of network) will have network issues on 25Mbps or faster, when NBNCo have reported the average speed down is 67.7Mbps and up is 30.63Mbps. This will improve when profiles are changed after migration from ADSL to FTTN is complete."
So when 65% can get 50Mbps or faster. But then they as i have pointed out to you before are most likely using fttb figure in the average. As to only have 30% above the average speed and 60% below it with 30% cant get faster above 50Mbps. Plus report on people is being to be move down speeds teirs becuase fttn cant supply it. As well as the nbn refusing to release the real fttn speeds.
"Fibre fanboi campaigns since 2012 have achieved nothing outside the small percentage willing to pay for fast speeds, because the general population have correctly judged your attitude as self-interest, not community interest."
As I have shown you with very simple maths that that small % generates more rebuke than the 80% getting a nice cheap service becuase of it. But again as you fanboy copper delusion you ignore it. So trying to make sure the community can have a choice on the same speed vs having a lotto ticket on where you are or how good your copper is to what speeds you can get.
You have already shown your self interest as its al labors fault on a network which is now not there design has been for 4 years. It's apparently labor fault that your fanboy copper couldn't be delivered for $29B and everyone to have 25Mbps last year
"There is a key distinction between 'want' and 'can afford'. Most people in Australia would enjoy driving a luxury European car, but very few can afford it. Labor's speed tiers have as Labor expected, created a digital divide of >80% on 25Mbps or slower and a shrinking percentage (14%) on 100Mbps. "
Ahh so given someone a choice of speeds that has different cost is a digital divide with a small difference in cost. But then shows how delusional you really are
"Based on your argument the availability of technology change removes the issue, because if you want to pay for it you can :-)."
Lol so if we use your delusional arguement of a digital divide. How worst is that digital divide is when instead of spending say $30 more for faster speeds that have to spend up to $150,000 for faster speeds.
Lol whgat massaging of numbers like you 80% on 25Mbps or less lol. That nbn own figures but again you try to make a delusional claim without backing up your claims with any facts as usual just the lie and spin as always lol
"Umm... We do know what it would be today, because NBNCo / ACCC release quarterly figures broken down by technology which show no growth in those prepared to pay for faster speeds."
So since the rollout out stopped in 2013 and fttp figures hasnt changed much at all we apparently know lol best spin i have seen from you. But then we have reports of people being moved down speeds teirs as fttn could supply those speeds but again no growth because unable to now supply.
"Thanks to Labor's speed tiers resulting in >80% on 25Mbps or slower the NBN hasn't delivered the benefits that 1Gbps could have delivered."
Off topic spin As always becuase cant dispute the facts.
"you are well aware if speed tiers were removed on the FTTN network it would have a higher average speed than FTTP with Labor's speed tiers."
Same spin as always want people wants people to pay the same price whether they get 0Mbps or up to 100Mbps lol.
"I don't dispute that 1Gbps could have delivered significant economic and social benefits, however not when Labor intended for <1% to have 1Gbps in 2026."
Almost on topic but with the usual rant at the end. 100Mbps adds 1.2% to our GDP compared to .3%. So much for your 4% rich people delusional claim lol
"Delusional are fibre fanbois believing that Labor was building a 1Gbps network for them, unless of course they were in the elite 1%. But then if you were in the elite 1% technology change wouldn't be a significant expense. Delusional is ignoring the evidence that >80% of Australians have decided to select 25Mbps or slower."
I didn't know supply 100Mbps to every house a 1Gbps network. But then again when the time to increase speeds considering most countries are already suppling 1Gbps networks compared to you fanboy of 25Mbps networks.
Delusional is when you have 65% on user picking the maximum or faster then what the network is required to deliver when it hasnt finished yet. Current ridiculous cost to upgrade premises $150K. Having to upgradecsaud network 5 years after its complete when they have no way if even paying for said upgrades. Claiming to do upgrades when demand is there but won't know the demand is there because they can't supply speeds for that demand lol
"My argument is that speed tiers (as predicted by Labor) have created a digital divide and enabled MTM"
So apparently supply speeds of 100Mbps and giving consumers choice on hiw fast they want to pay for is some how in your delusional frame of mind creating a digital divide. While your copper fan boi support which gives a lottry tickit on how fast your connection is doesnt create a digital devide.
"The significant changes made by LNP have been lower CVC quicker than Labor planned and build FTTN / HFC (irrelevant to the > 80% ordering 25Mbps or slower)"
Lol as i have stated under labor FTTP it cost the same to deliver the different speeds. It would have been extremely easy for FTTP to adjust the CVC price. As the MTM is relying on more CVC revenue than FTTP at this point in time a simple fact you have chosrn to ignore. While we know under FTTN even if tthey make the prices better people still wont beable to order a better service due to the limits of copper even though above you have claimed otherwise.
"Still in your delusional world where >80% on 25Mbps or slower and <14% on 100Mbps is a better outcome than Labor's plan for 50% on 12Mbps, 30% on 100Mbps and ~3% on 250Mbps?"
So as i have shown you with very simple maths that more peple on higher teirs under fttp generates more revune. But alas you have chosen to ignore that simple fact and claim its CVC cost is the revune stream lol. Considering your delisional in think cvc cost is supplying most of the revenue when it only supplies 30%
"So quoting from Labor's NBNCo Corporate Plan is considered lying and spin?"
Yes as you well or might not as you are delusional. As FTTP has been doing it for 4 years now. The fact your compare mtm figures vs fttp figures which hasnt change much at all since 2013 who knows what it would be now. You dont want to compare the $29B evone to have 25Mbps by last year. But considering how delusional you are you seem to believe it has happen.
"I suggest that Labor's response to Google Fibre's 1/1Gbps direct fibre build by increasing the NBN top speed from 100Mbps to 1Gbps just prior to the 2010 election and omitting to state their expectation that it would be so expensive that <1% of Australians would be connected at 1Gbps in 2026 is a good example of spin."
Considering Google was going to announce which city in decmber 2010 but was pushed back to early 2011. So before the august 2010 election lol. But please keep being delusional lol.
"My suggestion at the time and since is that Labor should have responded by offering Google $20 billion to build Google Fibre here. By now we might have had the network built and a Google Lab experimenting with Loon for remote access."
Considering before the nbn there was a tender for FTTN. Which no private company put in a successful tender. But then how delusional you are thinking a private company going to not cherry pick areas lol.
"I've never been a fan of FTTN / HFC. I've merely pointed out that Labor's decisions in setting up the NBN have had a significantly bigger impact. Secondly, the technology change has impact on only about 4%, .who are mostly rich."
Yes you have as have. Lol really. Wrong again there is a report that doubling the broadband speed of a country adds 0.3% to the GDP then each doubling after that keeps adding 0.3%. So since the mtm is only required to deliver an up to 25Mbps and adsl "average" speed us 12Mbps. So it only doubles once how many times does FTTP doubles our country speed? So since thats a sizable increase to our GDP as a country which affects more than the 4% you are trying to spin and lie about
1. Why can they order a service Mathew. You been banging on thats its been a viable since 2013.
2. Well you right there as it hasnt bern labor fttp for 4 years. But then how you keep on going on about it your delusional start makes out that it still it.
3. Lol so Mathew you can read the future but a lotto ticket lol. But then 60% on fttn can just get above 50%
4. So wow fttn apparently can deliver 1Gbps quick you better tell the nbn
5. Lol going off on rant there but thats for being up what fttp can really do
As per previous dissucion your sulking at the 25Mbps mark becuase you vacant use 50% on 12/1 Lol
So that other countries that are already supply 1Gbps speeds we are meant to compete with. It's a luxury is it. Lol you are expecting a middle class welfare hand out as you have already claimed you would claim an fttp connection back in tax. But then as you love to lie and spin as usual the tax payer was a just a guarantor for the nbn for on $30B not the $29b + $20B loan that your fanboy model now is lol
"My counter argument is that technology change means that 100Mbps (and faster) is available as long as you don't consider it too expensive."
No your counter argument is so supply tech that is delivering speeds people are choosing now for a network that isn't even finished yet. Which apparel cost 2 business class tickets it those tickets cost $7000 - $75000 to upgrade because it would be able to deliver speeds when it comes down in price.
"The logical conclusion to your point of view appears to be that fibre is the only solution and that even if >80% connected at 1Mbps as long as the special few could access the network at 100Mbps this is acceptable."
Since you blush off claiming CVC was the primary source of revenue for NBN with currently stands at only $38%. That capturing the small % of user that are willing to pay for the current fast speeds pays for the 80% of the one you keep banging on about and cant let go because its your only argument you have left because you cant use the 50% on 12Mbps anymore lol
"The alternative is that you develop an argument for the minimum speed on the network and insist that the government provides this. It appears that you and most others are content as long as you personally are able to afford your desired speed."
The minum speed was 100Mbps and was delivering this. But as you keep failing to understand it also gave the option for cheaper slower speeds for people who either don't need or didn't want to currently pay for the faster speeds. Now your copper fan boi model doesn't even deliver a min 25mbps. what is your suggesting of a mini speed the current network should deliver on a network that cant guarantee any speed at all?
"It should be noted that in the NBNCo Corporate Plan (2010) Labor defined the recommended minimum speed and then promptly ignored it."
OH really I didn't know delivering 100Mbps to everyone was ignoring the min speed. But unlike your copper fan boi model what was suppose to deliver MIn 25mbps for $29B for everyone by 2016 how did that turn out BTW. your insistence of spending $50B on a network that is only required to deliver an up to 25mbps for 1 second in a day with 5 drops a day when for only $15b more the a similar time frame had a better network that was suit for what may come with the taxpayer have to cover the cost of the next upgrade in 10 years time.
LOL so RSP can choose but user cant what a load of BS. Misleading as always
"Labor designed a financial model for the NBN which as Labor expected in each revision of the NBNCo Corporate Plan to create a digital divide."
didn't know suppling a 100Mbps to everyone was creating a digital divide. You would thing building a network that gives you a lottery ticket on speed was creating a digital divide.
Again rambling about a non existing digital divide of supplying 100mbps connection to everyone
Lol mathew well in just 3 years a report said most of the workd will have gigabit networks compared to our 25Mbps of ours.
What a business class ticket cost $75,000 wow
Interesting that we have a slow lane a medium lane and a fast lane thanks for that. If we had it your way most people would get a dirt road and would have to pay to tar it.
"If those unsourced numbers are correct, then it means that the 40% with lines delivering < 50Mbps must be closer to the 50Mbps speed to result in a 78Mbps average speed."
T"he full quote points out that the cause is the speed tiers which mean only a small shrinking minority (14%) are accessing 100Mbps speeds."
Did you or did you not say
"resulting the FTTP network being unable to deliver the recommended 100Mbps speeds for the applications that Labor championed."
Can or cannot FTTP deliver 100Mbps like you so have claimed. Yours own words "UNABLE TO".
Becuase we both know it can or your doing is trying to misleading to make a point as usual. Labor FTTP has given people a CHOICE. something you have failed to comprehend. Compared the MTM.
Here is another thing for CVC accc report has it at 37% of its revenue. Or how about most of the people RFS in FTTP are connected. Only Half for FTTN are why?
Lol mathew will be in less than ten years when we require the faster speeds with out having to do a homeloan to get a FOD. But thats all you can look at copper fan boi the network only half done and your looking at what people are xmchoosing now. Thank good we dont build roads to your standards.
"The point of observing that if speed tiers were removed from FTTN the average connection speed would be faster than FTTP is to point out how Labor's decision to implement speed tiers put a ball and chain around the performance of the NBN,"
Wrong you on purpose aim to mislead as you always do. Apparently the average of FTTN is 78Mbps but only 60% of FTTN users can get faster than 50Mbps
"resulting the FTTP network being unable to deliver the recommended 100Mbps speeds for the applications that Labor championed. "
There you go again cooper fan boi misleading. Claiming FTTP cant even deliver 100Mbps now. But instead customer are given a choice fast and how much they want to pay for a service. Not a this is the only up to speed you can get if you want more you claimed by you either move house (lol) or pay a small fortune $15k-150K for FOD when we where told it would only cost $2.5k.
Lol fanboi status again as cvc price would fall under labor fttp. But then its not surorise you have no idea. That pricing is just standard cvc pricing which delivers half of the AVC.
But then again your showing your fan boi status and even though i shown you cvc does not come close to making the same revune as avc you still think it does
'm not a fan of the FTTN deployment.
Yes you are. You mislead in your statements claiming fttn is faster than fttp.
Lol there you go again showing your fan boi status. As now your trying ti claim the $15k-$150k FOD is the same as paying $10-$20 more for faster speeds thats already aviable under fttp.
"The current speed tiers have barely changed in 4 years and RSPs are not offering plans faster than 100Mbps. Labor expected that those on the lower speed tiers wouldn't migrate up and with the current market demand for unlimited plans RSPs have no incentive to offer faster plans."
So how many was labor expecting on 12Mbps and how are on it atm. Since 50% was labor target and its way less than that then people have migrated up didn't they lol
"The digital divide was created by Labor's speed tiers and was expected by Labor as documented in the NBNCo Corporate Plan."
LOL Cooper fan boi status again I didn't know delivering a connecting to supported up 100Mpbs and more easily is creating a digital divide. Would you agree that using tech in your fanboi model that cant deliver the same speed to everyone is creating a digital divide
"In fact we find the demand for speed less than what Labor anticipated."
lol so there is 50% on 12/1 then lol
"Greater than 80% of the community has determined that 25Mbps is an acceptable speed. I do not see you presenting a single argument to change this."
that's your only argument except for the original 50% on 12/1 you used to bang on about.
but lets look at the figures. we know with fttp it cost them the same to deliver 12Mbps as 100Mbps. So if nbn wasn't making any money from the 12Mbps of $24 it would be making $3 from 25mbps connection and so on. So using current uptake figures
12Mbps of 660,992 users $0
25Mbps of 1,202,274 users $3.6M
50Mbps of 89,240 users $.89M
100mbps if 296,312 users $4.14
So the measly 14% of current users are making more money for the nbn than the 80% you keep banging on about
"The only speed tier that is higher is 25Mbps. The 100Mbps is half what Labor predicted and 250Mbps connections are tiny."
LOL so that's why you have moved your excuse from 50% on 12/1 to to 25/5 lol
"Consider this if speed tiers were removed on FTTN, the average speed would be higher than FTTP.
Consider this if speed tiers were removed on FTTN, the average speed would be higher than CURRENT SPEED TEIR AVERAGE OF FTTP. there fixed it for you other wise you claim is false and misleading as usual. We wouldn't want to compare apples with apples.
But would you say the same in 10 years probably not lol
"The difference between the two plans will have little impact on end-users. >80% aren't ordering speeds greater than 25Mbps"
you claim but 65% are currently choosing the 25 or greater lol
"The small percentage requiring 100Mbps or faster have options: move or technology change. Considering the fact that technology change will almost certainly be less than stamp duty, staying put is an option."
so 15k-150k is less than stamp duty lol. But then the claim was only going to be $2.5k
"I blame the selfish fibre fanbois who belieived Labor's promise of 1Gbps, failed to read that it would be for <1% in 2026." you don't blame its the only this you keep complaining about even after 4 years of the MTM which expected that same number by 2020 not 2026 because you are a copper fanboi.
"I blame the selfish fibre fanbois who don't care that only 14% and shrinking are on the minimum recommended speed for the applications (eHealth, eLearning, etc.) that Labor used as justification for the NBN." Your copper fan boi model was expecting 30% on 100mbps by 2020. Now its just 10% but then they are only delivering an up 25Mbps network that cent even deliver speeds people have been willing to pay for.
"If you are complaining about technology change bieng unaffordable then sadly you are destined to be on the poor side of the digital divide created by Labor's plan,"
Wow the is copper fan boi again I didn't know labor was doing FOD wow
Except that the percentage on each speed tier has barely changed since the additoin of FTTN, FTTB & HFC to the network. Sure a few people have been impacted, but as I've explained previously this is 14% on 100Mbps * 40% on FTTN * 70% estimated final connection rate = 4% of population. This 4% have options like moving or technology chnage.
Lol you know that fttn hasnt even got half of the people that can connect connected yet. Ahh yes the FOD thast was once famously claimed it would only cost $2.5k. Now its $15k - $150k
No the reason you the copper fan boy switchef was becuase more people where choosing faster speefs than labor expected
Lol thgats easy to explain. The network was only 1.5 uears into it being built and wasnt going to be cometed for a decade. Being about to easly upgrade to network to fast speeds without have tyo rio stuff out and put new stuff in. Just the ednd to end stuff. You know planing for the future not for what people are choising now.
But then you copper fanboi supportof trying to blame lanor for the copper mess is humorous
"however I'm not a copper fan. All I've ever done is point out that Labor's choice to implement speed tiers has meant that >80% will be adequately served by FTTN."
4 years on and you are still bitching and moaning about labor. You are a copper fan boy. But then using your same figures 65% are choosing 25Mbps or higher. That's on a network only required to deliver up to 25Mbps and its not finished yet. Cant understand why customers had to be more down speed tiers because fttn cant deliver said speeds lol.
LOL still now facts behind the figures just your assumptions lol. Typical copper fan by stuff right there. did you times the about that added that figure and then go this whats going to happen?
"Do you see how I've responded with facts from publications approved by Labor that can be easily verified versus your unverifiable opinions? Might be time to learn how to research and separate wishful thinking from reality."
Tell me again why there isnt 50% on 12/1 right now cant use Telstra as an excuse.
"Would you suggest Quigley who was years behind the original plan?"
Usual copper fan claim with no facts behind it
The SR had it 6 months behind.
"Possibly because of the way that Quigley under instruction for Labor planned the build?"
Another copper fan claim with no facts.
Under Quigley fttp had continued to come down i the 1 half years of the rollout to $500 cheaper than the current cost. While 4 years of ther mtm rollout it has never come down in price. While around the world like NZ cost of FTTP has continued to fall.
Usual copper fan tripe commented before on couldn't be bother tto do it again
"Please stop considering a very small minority (<14% willing to pay for 100Mbps, zero for 1Gbps) with the general community. Every house has good / bad points and people have made choices based on this for a millenium. The NBN is a national project, not middle class welfare."
So if that 14% would be make more money for nbn than the 80% you bitch on about. But you have turn it in to class ware far with you speed lotto fanboi support.
"Clearly based on this the NBN woes are Labor's fault then because they put in place design and financial model for the NBN. Why did Labor set the wholesale 1Gbps price at more than double the NZ price? The Coalition have made CVC pricing significantly cheaper."
Lol no they haven't. Plus the coalition said there fttn plan cost would be half the cost of fttp but it cost the same. You would think since it's claimed to be cheaper than fttp the whole sale cost would be cheaper too. But then with fttp it doesn't cost to increase the speed on its network compared to fttn requires a whole new rollout aka the FOD you expect people to pay for a network unable to deliver speed that would have been a viable under labor.
"What you haven't provided is the ingredients for the magic pudding that enabled NZ to deliver the same service significantly cheaper. Could it be the $11 billion that Labor agreed to pay Telstra to move customerse off the copper network onto FTTP, whereas in NZ the incumbrant telco was structurally separated?"
I have never claimed that FTTP won't support 1Gbps. What I have pointed out is that Labor planned for less than 1% to have 1Gbps in 2026!
Lol they plan that for revenue. Much like they plan for 50% to be on 12Mbps to estimate on what revenue but you keep implying that they built it to only deliver 25Mbps lol
"Shame that Labor didn't read or understand the charts they included in their NBNCo Corporate Plan. We might have had a different outcome."
Again there you go claiming the fttp doesn't do 1Gbps again
"Please learn to comprehend the statements you are quoting. I didn't ask for evidence that VDSL speeds vary over the distance of the connection. I asked for evidence that VDSL speeds for [on the same piece of copper] show a wide variation over the course of the day."
They why you completely fail to comprehend the technology. Looks like you believe fttn deliver 80Mbps to everyone like to try to claim when you compare it to fttp lol. It's has a wide range of PIR because evey house has a different speed. Much like how your condfused to why Telstra had to move people down speed teir because fttn could not deliver the speed poeple where willing to pay for.
"Thank you for explaining exactly where the performance issue exists. Inadequate CVC purchase by RSPs to match the plans being sold"
Yes not unlimited plans you where trying to blame
"So this would be one of the small shrinking 14% who are willing to pay for 100Mbps? They have the option of requesting a technology change from NBNCo."
Lol why should they when under labor they would have been about to get the speed they where willing to pay for. Remeber you claim fttn can do 80Mbps should they should be moving them down
"> Yes Mathew why pay for faster speed on fttn when nbn only guarantees for 1 sec in a day 12Mbps during the 18mth transition and 25Mbps for 1 second in a day after that.
You keep claiming this yet if it was in way close to reality we would be seeing articles everywhere complaining how slow FTTN is. What we find instead is articles on congestion.
You keep claiming this yet if it was in way close to reality we would be seeing articles everywhere complaining how slow FTTN is.
What we find instead is articles on congestion."
Lol I am not saying NBN own documents say it. But again I see where your confused because the Cvc congestion is 1Mbps well below that threshold. But there have been article. As usually your blinked unreality claiming it to be reality copper Fanboi
"You mean less than 14% being inadequately served by FTTN, which means more than 86% won't switch their vote based on the NBN."
Lol considering the world internet avegae speed by 2020 will by 1Gbps yes plus everyone else on it too lol.
"Changing technology won't magically cause 80% to connect at 100Mbps. I've clearly explained and the provided the numbers support the fact that slow speeds on the NBN are caused by people's unwillingness to pay for faster speeds. A change in policy is required.". It does when fttn can't deliver those aka Telstra having to move people down teirs.
But then there cost for plans are a lot cheaper $60 wholesale for 1Gbps ( wow fttp can deliver 1Gbps even though you have claimed other wise). They also don't have a Cvc cost and have unlimited plans available with out the congestion. Wow again right must be magic pudding or something.
"What I've asked you to do is provide some thoughts on why the take up rates are so different between the two countries. If 80% of the country were connecting to FTTP at 100Mbps then this would be a clear justification for the NBN needing to support that as a minimum speed."
Lol considering reports that by 2020 1Gbps would be the norm around the world. But it's ok we only need 25Mbps.
"For the >80% willingly choosing 25Mbps or slower effectively the answer is that yes, the financial model Labor put in place for the NBN has resulted in a network delivering 25Mbps or slower."
Willing to chose is not a network being built with fttp a claim of it only doing 25Mbps. When you would have been able to move into any residential place a chose a speed that suits you. Now you fanboi model it the opposite it is only required to deliver an upto (lol not min lol) 25Mbps big difference isn't it.
"The relvant quote from the document is "may reach a PIR within that range only once during a 24 hour period." My undestanding of DSL technology is that performance does not tend to vary wildly over a 24 hour period. Do you have evidence that of VDSL sync speeds showing wide variation over the course of a day? If not then what you are spreading is FUD."
Lol again you have no idea what your talking about. Why does aDSL sync speeds to different place from less than 1Mbps to up to 24Mbps. vDSL has that exact same problem. Again hence why tetra had to move poeple down teir. Now I can understand why it confused you lol.
That document is from NBN it self it's PIR range for 100Mbps on fttn is 25-100Mbps but please try to understand. If what your claiming about the average speed of fttn where true the PIR range would be 80Mbps?
"The reality is that RSP congestion and customers choosing slow speeds is having a signficantly bigger impact on internet speed than MTM."
ATM RSP Cvc average is just 1Mbps there is your congestion ATM it's in that same accc report. But then HFC congestion starts at 1Mbps due to 600 plus on one cable. Fttn congestion starts at 5Mbps due to 2Gbps pipe and fttp congestion starts at 80Mbps for its 2.5Gbps pipe.
"It is not RSPs paying it is residential customers paying for access."
So a customer PAYing for 100Mbps and Telstra has to move them down to either 50Mbps or worst 25Mbps because the fttn can't deliver over 50Mbps or worst over 25Mbps. It's not Telstra fault for FTTN able to deliver. Telstra only at fault for not checking what that fttn could deliver for that customer.
"Thanks for the data. It confirms that for 100Mbps speed tier that percentages are very similar with the exception of FTTN having significantly more on 25Mbps than 12Mbps compared to other fixed technologies. For FTTN, 100Mbps abvoe 10% is surprisingly high."
Yes Mathew why pay for faster speed on fttn when nbn only guarantees for 1 sec in a day 12Mbps during the 18mth transition and 25Mbps for 1 second in a day after that.
"Please provide evidence to the contrary. The complaints I've seen are about congestion caused insufficient CVC as the big issue.". Already provided that in a link previously but you must have just glossed over is as it doesn't suit your narrative as usual. But then the other evidence is Telstra moving people down teirs because fttn can't deliver the speeds people wanting to PAY for.
"I find it amazing that you see 80% on 25Mbps or slower as a great result on a network that is capable of 1Gbps. Personally my reaction is tears. It is also sad to see the number of 1Gbps connections drop from 22 to 17."
It's amazing that's you don't see 65% of people picking 25Mbps or above now will bring issue for a network only designed to deliver up to 25Mbps when it's still years away from being finished.
"Which statements exactly? What I've commented on 1Gbps is that very few in Australia can expect to see those speeds based on Labor's plans."
Didn't know fttp couldn't deliver 1Gbps wow
"Please provide evidence of this. I will assume that you are technically literate enough to understand the impact of overheads on network throughput."
I will assume you will be literate enough to work the % on your own.
"In an attempt to show fibre fanbois that speed tiers are the biggest limiting factor on the NBN, I use Labor's targets to show that changing the technology won't have a big impact (except for the <14% on 100Mbps plans).". Lol right like you believe fttn delivers a min 25Mbps. Yeah you use to argue on the 50% on 12Mbps what happen there lol
"As for the NZ example you still in years of asking have completely failed to explain what the difference is between the two countries."
They are rolling out fttp vs our MTM
"Labor wrote the NBNCo Corporate Plan with the full understanding that only a few would benefit from the truly fast speeds. Replacing all the FTTN with FTTP won't change this."
Lol so labor was only building a network that could only deliver 25Mbps ok
"The average for ADSL2+ is ~11Mbps based on evidence provided by Internode / iiNet in 2007 when they were campaining against Labor's FTTN plan. With FTTN there is a minimum speed of 25Mbps which is sufficient for 80% of Australians based on the take up of the NBN.
You keep claiming that FTTN performance is crap yet fail to provide any evidence. All the evidence points to poor performance caused by RSPs responding to market demands for unlimited data."
You know your talking about the same DSL family right. Yes 11Mbps was adsl average speed. But like I said it's up to speed is 100Mbps. And again fttn doesn't not deliver a min 25Mbps it's on upto. Like your claiming adsl mim speed is 4Mbps lol. BT mim service guarantee for fttn is 6Mbps a bout low for your claimed 25Mbps. But it's like saying fttp 25Mbps is a min when it's also an Up to. So your calling 5 drops outs a day and at least 25Mbps once a day great
"may reach a PIR within that range only once during a 24 hour period."
"So that would be <14% then? That 14% would also most likely have a higher economic status because they can afford to spend more for faster internet. One could argue based on this that FTTP NBN sound like middleclass welfare."
WTF are you talking. Telstra already had PAYING the could AFFORD but nbn fttn has been unable to supply the speed.
Wow so your a believe that unlimited is the fault of congestion as an rsp buys enough CVC to keeps it customer base happy lol.
"states that "Not all speeds greater than nbn™ 25 are available at all premises." Therefore we can conclude that FTTN will adequately meet the needs of > 80% of Australians."
That the speed people are choosing here now and the network still have 3+ years togo. Currently in NZ 80% are choosing 100Mbps today. But we should tell them they are wasting there money as you said 25Mbps is enough. But then why are we building the nbn when ADSL delivered up to 24Mbps.
"This is the minimum and What Fibre To The Node technology will deliver for Australia describes real world experience:"
Up to not min address it before even in the 18mth transition period nbn only required to deliver 12Mbps for 1 second in a day.
"In nbn™ technology 101: What is FTTN? states that "Roughly two-thirds of end users will be within 400 metres of the nearest FTTN cabinet". Nbn also stated that copper from pillar to the node average is 350M so somehow they have 2/3 of users in that last 50M or are they just claim walking distance and not copper distance lol.
"I'm confused as to why are RSPs downgrading customers when >80% are selecting 25Mbps or slower."
Because the ones that want to pay for faster speeds either can't get above 50Mbps or worst above 25Mbps. So really how are you confused.
"Of course I would fully understand customers downgrading to 25Mbps because unlimited plans and inadquate CVC purchases by RSPs has resulted in congestion at peak hour which makes paying for faster speeds of diminishing value.". Lol blaming umlimited plans again lol. Must be some kind of miracle in NZ with 100Mbps on unlimited plans.
"The wording change has been applied to all NBN plans regardless of technology. This is being pushed by ACCC speed investigations which I expect will show congestion exists."
So why accc does its report on nbn list
"If Tesltra could sell 250Mbps or 1Gbps plans at a profit then they would. There will be significant first mover advantage for the first to offer 1Gbps retail plans."
So the next time you BS on 1% on Gbps I will use your lame excuse then.
"I'm not a copper fanboi. I'm merely trying to demonstrate that the policy settings for NBNCo are a bigger issue than than the technology choice. We can argue the specifics of facts but the reality is the average speeds on FTTP are far below what Labor predicted and switching back to FTTP will not change that."
Yes you are. You use twisted logic against you and you don't like it. Btw you know fttn their average speed is below teirs average speed but no real surprises there. You do nothing but complain about labor targets which nbn hasn't been building for for 4 years. Coalition % targets are even higher and sooner 2020 but you do not even mention them.
"For 80% on 25Mbps or slower it isn't a lottery, as the difference in technology is barely perceptible."
Lol why pay for faster speed when it's only required to deliver up to 25Mbps.
"Telstra not offering 12Mbps plans explains why only 32% are on 12Mbps plan. However instead of Labor's predictions that only a small percentage would be on 25 & 50Mbps plans and the 100Mbps plan would be above 30% with >5% on 250Mbps plans the reality we find ourselves in is that <14% (and falling) are on 100Mbps."
Oh no not the Telstra not selling excuse. But Telstra not selling 250Mbps or 1Gbps plans either can I use your lame excuse too lol.
"Consider a sales person jubilant that he has moved 18% of his customers from the tier 1 package (12Mbps) to the tier 2 package (25Mbps). Sounds great, until you realise that none of the customers on are on the top 3 tiers (> 100Mbps) and more thalf the tier 4 (100Mbps) customers have dropped to the tier 2 (25Mbps) package. I doubt the sales person will receive a bonus."
Lol leta see your fanboi copper model wants 30% on 100Mbps by 2020 yet fttn finally hit double figures to hit 10% on 100Mbps while fttp has stayed around 14%. Btw labor was expecting 20% on 100Mbps not 30% lol
"This nicely demonstrates how your arguments are outside of the current reality. I show how a simple policy change could make FTTN faster thatn FTTP. You respond with an option which requires upgrading all GPONs in FTTP. The point of the FTTN / FTTP comparision is to show how the best technology can be hamstrung by poor policy choices."
Lol outside current reality like you trying to compare a no tier fttn vs a tier average fttp. Your average point is going off a combined fttb and fttn average. but then in reality not everyone will even be lucky to see half the speeds your claiming lol.
"Fibre fanboi FUD. If this was happening in the real world then you would see articles about it everywhere, instead we see that people are reporting speeds of 80Mbps and higher on FTTN. When > 80% are selecting speeds easily supported by FTTN you need to come up with an argument to convince the 80%."
Well if you care to look at nbn documents that what it states. As you so nicely put it. Fttn just need to hit PIR of 25Mbps for 1 second in a day. That include if your paying for 100Mbps vs fttp PIR 100Mbps for 1 second on 100Mbps. That's why you see for FTTP 100Mbps while for FTTN 25-100Mbps. But please try again copper fanboi.
Oh people are reporting 80Mbps. Yet Telstra had to more people down speed teirs because they counldnt get above 50Mbps let alone 80Mbps.
"I'm asking you to stop behaving like a spoilt kid and think about how to fix the NBN. The books need to be balanced which means if CVC revenue is lowered then either cost savings need to be found or AVC revenue has to rise. You could argue that as a nation building project it should be subsidised by the government but when >80% would receive neglible benefit from the subsidy because their speed wouldn't increase then"
Lol a spoiled kids. Really. All you do is bash labor fttp 1% on 1Gbps by 2026 crap lol. You don't even try to fix it.
"If you had worked through the example I provided what you would have discovered is that for customers on 1Gbps speed tier would complete the download before the second customer starts, whereas when the 12Mbps speed limit is imposed, the 9th customer causes congestion because the first customer hasn't completed their download."
Oh so now your example they take turns lol pitty that doesn't happen in reality lol. Try again but then that's your twisted logic at work again. Yet you have the hide to my comments are outside the current reality lol.
"Unlimited quotes are the primary cause of congestion. Some people like to leave a TV on for background noise. Today that could mean a 4HD stream (~50Mbps). With current contention ratios it only requires a few customers doing this to cause congestion. Quotas on plans means that those people can choose to pay for a plan with sufficient quota or not use the streaming TV for background noise."
Lol outside the current reality again. As every other network in the world would be experiencing the same problems and they have had unlimited quotas for over a decade now. But please try again lol.
"Currently you appear to be a selfish person who wants to be one of the elite with a 100Mbps connection. I hope you were not decived by Labor into thinking that you would be part of the 1% that in 2026 Labor expected to have 1Gbps."
Current it's you who appear to be selfish as you want to have a lottery of different speed across the country. Lol buy you where deceived by labor 50% on 12Mbps by 2026 how many on 12Mbps btw. But then coalition your fanboy model expects 1% on 1Gbps by 2020 yet half the network can't deliver a 10th of the speed.
"FTTN average speed faster than FTTP is simple maths. Currently > 80% of FTTP connections are 25Mbps or slower (~30% on 12Mbps). The minimum FTTN speed is 25Mbps most people's connections capable of significantly faster speeds. Therefore if you remove the speed tiers from FTTN, then ~30% on 12Mbps receive an instance speed boost to 25Mbps or faster."
So if we use your same example and turrn it around as the average for fttn speed is less than fttp. Remove tier from fttp and you could get up to 40Gbps which the new capability. On top of that fttn node Backshall is only 2Gbps so supports 5-10Mbps at peak times compared to 80Mbps with fttp.
So with using normal logic (comparing apples to apples not oranges lol) not your twisted logic fttn could never even come close to ftp.
Btw the minimum isn't 25Mbps it's 25Mbps for 1 sec in a day with 5 drop outs. So you can have 2Mbps for most of the day but at 3am your connection hits 25Mbps so you connection is fine.
So let's use your twisted logic on your own example. If the first isp is only paying for 1Mbps per customer vs the 2 isp paying 500Mbps per customer with the CVC the first isp would have more congestion than the second one would it.
"NBNCo could easily justify this to remove the current issue RSPs have with some customers ordering plans that their lines are not capable of supporting.". Ahh so it's the RSP fault for a customer wanting to pay for a faster connection that nbn and you have stated it can deliver aka your fttn to fttp quote above lol but can't deliver. That as you have stated previously that you then expect said customer to either move house or pay 10K plus for a better connection.
So now after debunking you claimed that unlimited and speed tier is the fault of congestion your now asking me on advice lol.
My republic is offering it to Woolongong users to show that people are willing to pay for 1Gbps services contay to nbn claims no one wants it.
Oh and there is the old matherw back again how about 65% or useing picking the min speed or faster that the nbn is supplying now. BTW how many on 12.1 is it close to what they where expecting on FTTP?
But then half of the country wont see fast broadband as nbn cant deliver it as its only required to deliver up to 25Mbps.
currently NBN expecting on HFC segment of 650 users so 1Gps per segment is 1mbps.
Lol speer teirs are the single reason that fttp changed FTTN. So lets all go back to unlimited dialup
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