Re: @Hugh hunt
@sisk
I would agree if economics were the only consideration. However it's not even in the top five most important considerations in this particular debate
Economics is always the most important consideration in every debate. All the good ideas, all the deeply held beliefs, all the proposed solutions are worth nothing what-so-ever if you cannot afford to fund them.
I believe no child should be born to starve to death, and that the world has sufficient agri-land to ensure they don't. But as I lack the economic means to implement a solution, however worthwhile, it doesn't happen.
such an approach fails to explain how earlier periods that were much hotter than even the wildest estimates for man's impact over the next 50 years got that way. On the other hand those denying man's influence on the environment fail to explain why global warming correlates so closely with human activity.
Environmental science fails to explain away the min-ice age where the Thames froze up year after year, during a period of human activity off the scale compared to a few hundred years earlier when it didn't because it was a lot warmer. So it ignores it. Goose, gander, sauce.
Things like the CRU debacle, for that IS what it was, do nothing to enhance the warmists standing. You simply cannot take seriously people who fear the release of their data and method because they worry about contradictory hypothesis. That's not science, it isn't even as valid as religion, because at least those people have faith in their beliefs.
Acceptance of the damage they have done themselves, and the release of the zealot/worshipper/believer mindset would do the warmist movement no end of good. Endlessly shouting out guff like "one year to save the environment" or "UK to be hotter than Portugal" just makes them look ridiculous when of course they fail to happen, over and over again.
We know for a fact that the models don't work; it is indisputable. We therefore can expect with a 99.9% certainty, that conclusions drawn from those models will also be wrong; they carry no greater scientific weight than the reading of runes. The models always overshoot by a considerable way, so the only sensible thing to do is assume that reality will be a lot more pleasant than environmentalists want you to believe. And oddly enough, it always has been.
Basically my thought on it is this: global warming or no global warming we need something more sustainable than fossil fuels. Fossil fuels WILL run out eventually.
I agree, but that doesn't mean we need junk solutions today, it simply means that by the time the fossils are gone we have to have something else. And we do, in spades. Nuclear energy for starters.
Most environmentalists dislike nuclear because it takes the heat out of the debate. It buys thousands of years worth of breathing space in terms of energy usage. No requirement for less, you see.
Probably not in our lifetimes (with the possible exception of oil, which super pessimistic estimates claim will be gone by 2050)
That is simply not possible at all. Peak oil, the bit where we've used half of it, is approximately 250 years away from now. Thanks to fracking there is zero possibility of running out of oil in anything less than several centuries, assuming we don't locate anymore within that time frame, which of course, we will. Peak oil is, for all practical purposes, dead and buried: Science & technology killed it.
Where is Tim when you need him? #BBW
That could change with a major breakthrough in solar power
Solar & wind power are sideshows and always will be. The post oil future of energy is nuclear, with a bit of hydrogen thrown in for portability. It might not be the kind of nuclear we have now, but the future is not going to be a couple of windmills in your garden and a brace of solar cells on your roof.
I like the R&D side of environmentalism - it'd do the world no harm to continue investing in future energy supplies, because running our really would be bad - but the vast majority of it amounts to nothing more than a religion for atheists, and communism in an amusing mask. The endless parading of the communist mantra of less isn't advancing their cause.
If you want to regress to an agricultural lifestyle and 1970's standard of living, by all means feel free to do so, just understand that you have no moral, legal, intellectual or scientific right to insist anyone else does.
Climate change has never killed anyone and it never will. However, ocean acidification, IF it can be proven to be the problem it is suggested as being and have the causes it is suggested to have, and we're a pretty long way away from that, then it is something we should seek to rectify. That may well not mean "less" though, it may simply have a technical, chemical, or some other type of solution.