* Posts by Bootman

27 posts • joined 25 Nov 2013

Win XP holdouts storm eBay and licence brokers, hiss: Give us all your Windows 7


I am surprised there are still people defending the Windows 8 interface. Metro / apps are a joke on the desktop, and evidently aren't that popular on the Surface Pro either. Surface RT has been an utter failure. Hints from Microsoft themselves suggest Windows 9 may revert back to something more sensible.

Windows 8 belongs in the same bucket as Windows ME, something that in ten years or so, we will smirk at briefly. The public hate it and business hates it, and its defenders now resemble King Canute ranting on at the sea.

Microsoft did the job spot on with Windows 7 in my opinion. And that's an opinion generally shared by most. Windows 8 managed to achieve the unthinkable, in that I actually recommended casual users to choose Linux (Mint) over it, if for whatever reason they didn't want to or couldn't migrate to 7. If you had told me five years ago I'd be doing that, I'd have thought it a nice idea but would have laughed.

Thought of in-flight mobile calls fills you with dread? Never fear, US Dept of Transport is here


Re: @AC 06:29

Even more annoying is the constant stream of dickheads listening to music so we can hear it through headphones (and in some cases phone speakers) which blight our trains like parasites. Should be considered as unacceptable as smoking on public transport (in fact I personally find smoking less irritating).

I do remember one guard saying to a typical "gangster" type playing some R&B type trash 'listen sunshine, the rest of the carriage don't want to hear your girlfriend's music, so either it goes off or you're off', which did the trick.

Hey Linux newbie: If you've never had a taste, try perfect Petra ... mmm, smells like Mint 16


Re: going for record downvotes... deep breath...

Where as you may have a point in criticising Linux for certain major commercial applications not being available on it, and that workarounds have to be found in some cases, the idea that it is not possible to maintain thousands of Linux desktops in the real world is laughably insane. If Red Hat Enterprise is good enough for the US Army to deploy and manage, then it's good enough for your average corporate desktop.

I made the assumption that your post asking if Linux is actually used by people to be a genuine question, but it appears you are just finding an excuse to troll about Linux. Now seeing as you consider it is so inferior in every way to the alternatives, why not go and suggest widespread deployment of Macs throughout organisations instead (and I don't mean for certain workers for whom they may be the appropriate choice - I mean everyone including office temps, payroll, industrial workshops), or Windows 8 for that matter, and see who's crying then. Meanwhile the rest of us can get on with deploying Windows 7 or Linux where it is appropriate.


Re: going for record downvotes... deep breath...

Windows 8 is dire so that rules that out. OSX is beyond the price range of many assuming you mean buy a Mac, unless you are really suggesting a hackintosh?! Guess that leaves Windows 7. Which as it is generally not supplied with most new machines pre-installed, it can be equally as much of a headache for newbies to install as Linux, if everything doesn't work first time out of the box.


Re: Noob: why not Cinnamon on Debian?

Linux Mint Debian edition - http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php

Or alternatively - installing Cinnamon on Debian - http://avedo.net/708/installing-debian-wheezy-with-cinnamon-desktop/

You don't need anything to do with Ubuntu at all to use Cinnamon. Of course you can install it on Arch or Fedora or whatever. As for Ubuntu derived Mint, it doesn't use Unity or the search lens anyway.


Agree 100%. Nouveau actually seems solid on newer Nvidia cards, (however I still installed the proprietary driver, as I don't still trust Nouveau enough), but when installing on a machine with an older GeForce 8800 (a common bog standard card in my opinion), it threw a tantrum. Had to mess around with blacklisting stuff, which as you say will put new users off Linux immediately. Mint installs all the restricted codecs and the like itself anyway, so I don't see why it shouldn't use the Nvidia drivers. Mint is not a purists distribution so I see no reason why they need to be idealists over this.

I'm a really big fan of Mint, it's a wonderful piece of work, and Cinnamon continues to impress, but they really need to sort out crap like this as a priority. If Clem or any of the developers are reading this, I've got a lot of respect for what you do - enough to donate to Mint no less, but take note of the criticisms and get them sorted. The reason most of us use Mint is exactly because you have been listening to what the user base wants in terms of desktop environment and features, so we trust you will listen and deal with our concerns too!

Inside Steve Ballmer’s fondleslab rear-guard action


Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

Well they say Windows 8 dumbs down the user...


Re: So that's one fondleslab

> Paperless - not yet, there are some dinosaurs left that insist on printed stuff.

I'm not in theory against a paperless office, but such dinosaurs include every single company I have ever worked at, anyone sending me post, (be it banks, government, friends, family, insurance companies, and junk mail), computer companies who supply instructions on paper, railways and airlines, (when getting journey print outs and tickets), garages (MOT certificate), the local police (reporting crime), I could go on...

I don't forsee a paperless world for the majority of us in my lifetime. I'll believe it when printers stop being sold to the general public.


Re: Because the PC is dying?

Good point, after racking my brains the only things that *may* have any relevence to consumers off the top of my head...

1) Run some games.

2) Run Metro "apps" (well Microsoft thinks they are relevent anyway)

The first is dealt with by installing Windows 7 (or even Vista for that matter), and a serious PC gamer is most likely using 7 anyway, and most people have consoles. As for the second, a Muttley laugh is the only appropriate response.


Re: Fallacious argument

Perhaps all those people saying "well a baby can use a touch screen" or "a 3 year old can use Windows 8", should put their money where their mouths are, and get infants to work for them...

As for tablets being better than desktops for everything, my TV incidentally is better for content consumption than my desktop too, maybe the tablet mafia would like to start writing Excel macros using a telly remote control, as after all it is a perfectly decent way to navigate said device.


Windows 8 may work in an office environment if the users are solely in fairly simple one task Metro applications, with a more logical method of shutting down / task switching. I am fairly sure if users had 3 or 4 basic programs, which didn't need to interact with each other much, with appropriate lockdown and controls it may work alright.

Once you start messing around with desktop applications, and opening files in explorer which launch Metro applications to view / access them, then the trouble starts. Equally once you start doing any real complex work, for example you may be word processing, and need to refer to something in another window, then a loss of context from switching from full screen program to full screen program is for many users disruptive to their workflow.

I have had to support users who have Windows 8 installed. None of who were "power users" by any stretch of the imagination. Classic Shell and restoring all the file associations to work with desktop applications more or less made them happy, but the loss of context and continual jump between Metro and the desktop for them when trying to do basic tasks such as view an image or video infuriated them. They were much happier with the traditional Windows layout.

I spent about an hour getting used to Windows 8, purely because I knew a time would come when the inevitable "I need help with Windows" calls would come through, and although I got used to working with it, I found Metro particularly annoying and disruptive on the desktop, if Windows 8 was used as it was supposed to be used. In contrast getting used to the iPad and iPhone took next to no time. Of the other newer UIs I've recently delved into, Ubuntu's Unity at least followed a certain paradigm, and appeared to be the direction Windows 8 was aiming to go in if they had got it half right instead of totally wrong, and Mint's Cinnamon is an amazing piece of work, which any Windows XP / 7 user would feel at home in especially for something free developed by a relatively small team.

Windows 8 is for 90% of people an irritating waste of time, which has tarnished the Microsoft name further. Which is a real pity, as they got it spot on with Windows 7, perhaps their first OS since the days of Windows 95 which actually excited consumers, rather than was something they just tolerated.


"Learn to live with win8..."


Microsoft 'cautiously optimistic' about Christmas sales


Re: A casual Observation

They should, but do they actually offer it though? Presumably they are locked into certain contracts with manufacturers who are they themselves locked into agreements with Microsoft. Not that PC World has Dell kit for sale to my knowledge, but it always makes me laugh on the Dell site where it says 'Dell recommends Windows 8', when I am sure they'd rather flog 7 on their consumer range. No doubt they would invoke serious ire from Microsoft if they dared...


X-Box is the only desirable thing for 90% of consumers from that choice. Most will be purchasing an iPad of course. I regularly travel by train, and can't help noticing the hardware my fellow passengers have - usually due to being stood up and forced to look over their shoulder might I add! Plenty of iPads, a surprisingly large number of Macbooks and PCs pretty much universally running Windows 7 or XP. I have so far seen one Ubuntu machine and one Windows 8 PC which was firmly in the desktop. Never seen anyone on the Start screen or with any form of Windows tablet in the wild. If this observation in any way reflects the market then Microsoft should be concerned.

Fat-walleted execs? Nope, it's a corporate tax swerve that REALLY ticks Brits off


Re: Too right !

In the case of say Starbucks, I really can't see if it would have made any difference if they were either booted out of Britain, or chose to leave by being forced to pay their obligations. There would be a ton of other alternatives just waiting to grab the market, who are willing to pay their share of tax.


Re: Shurely shome mishtake

I can't agree politics is leaning to the 'left' when we are now in such a position that such bizarre things as Army recruitment, and a lot of police back office functions are privatised (often to the usual bunch of hated incompetents G4S / Capita / Serco). A large proprotion of the public themselves may want a greater lean to the left in some areas (mainly to do with privatisation / bonuses / high wage culture) but they aren't getting it.

The top rate of tax is down from 50% to 45%. The bedroom tax is crushing the poor, despite there being very little alternative accomodation for those on housing benefit (of which many on it actually work). Even Thatcher thought railway privatisation was a step too far, and didn't dare to wreck the police or army the way this lot are doing. The only real cases where there has been a trend to the left now, is universal acceptance of the minimum wage, and some social issues such as various human rights, equality and EU directives.

Windows 7 outstrips Windows 8.x with small November growth


Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

> Ha saw that Hate instead of 8, brilliant you did miss windoze though so only 5/10

Yes! Why not regale us with more thrilling tales of "Osama Bin Stallman", the "Gnuliban", "LinSucks", "PinguCrapOS". Or how about getting really creative. "Liar-nus Torvaldes", "Red Shat", "OpenPooSE", "Uc**tu". Such jolly japes and merriment, I must reach for my hip flask and calm down with a game of whist after all this excitement!


Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

"And the biggest problem group are the FUD-boys from sector Penguin and the flat out liars from the Gnuliban movement that never tried but throw around "knowledge""

So is the Linux community a small declining number of people not worth bothering with who will never bust out of the 0.5% or 1% or 2% or whatever it is on the desktop, or is it this huge vocal racketeering mafia influencing potential Windows 8 users into avoiding the product, and pushing Linux like a drug on them instead? If Linux users really do have that sort of sway, then Microsoft are screwed. Or could it be a complete red herring and what people want is the tradtional Windows user interface, and it's easier to blame "Linux" as though it is one entity, rather than Microsoft for the mess they have made of it all.

As for "Real IT Professionals" who view the OS as a tool to be deployed rather than OS wars and dogma, then that explains clearly why Windows 7 usage is growing at a faster rate than Windows 8. A large percentage of users on this site are indeed "Real IT Professionals". And it appears from the majority view of them on here is that both Windows 7 and Linux are in the main damn fine tools to be used in suituations where they are appropriate, and that Windows 8 generally causes more issues than it solves.


Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

Utter rot. As someone who has had to support users who have had to deal with Windows 8, most of them don't even know what Linux is, and those who do, just think it is something to do with programming. They hate the interface and find it a complete bane from their own experiences, not because Linux users told them it was rubbish. An install of Classic Shell + altering all the file associations so Metro doesn't appear generally sorts them out. They certainly aren't moaning 'experts' by any stretch of the imagination.

Report says Microsoft has divided CEO list into possibles and probables


I always think Elop's surname looks like it is written backwards. Much like that of the former BBC boss Yentob.

VIOLENT video games make KIDS SMARTER – more violent the BETTER


Fair point well played! I suppose to clarify by 'illegal', is that I support a ban on child porn or anything else which exploits people in that sort of sickening manner. But not artistic expression. For example Postal 2 (arguably far more offensive than any GTA game) is illegal in Australia, or was the last time I checked, and I certainly wouldn't ban that. Given for a while it was one of the biggest titles for Linux gamers, I haven't seen any occurences in the news of Linux users stuffing a rifle up a cat's arse, impersonating police officers, or setting people alight then relieving themselves on them. Mind you the whole game is just a cartoony piss take - effectively a South Park simulator just played out by adults instead.


Playing GTA has turned me into as much of a violent sociapath, as playing FIFA has turned me into a professional footballer.

The whole rant about violent computer games is a bit like the old 'video nasties' debate. These films are so detatched from reality that no one is ever going to copy whats in them. I actually find the whole Jersey / Geordie Shore / The Only Way Is Essex and Sex and The City to be far more destructive. How often do you hear in the paper of someone kidnapping people and stitching their mouths to their anuses, or murdering people by drilling into their skulls? Where as the drunken violence, poor sexual health, affairs, excessive materialism and greed, which these shows depict as a way of life are clearly the norm for a significant number of people. Ditto with music, metal, goth and the rave cultures were always seen as destructive for young people, whilst the excesses of more mainstream stuff are rarely questioned with the same vitriol more underground music gets.

I'm not one for banning anything (with the exception of obviously illegal stuff), but it's certainly not violent computer games, or for that matter horror films which are having a destructive influence on society.

Why Microsoft absolutely DOESN'T need its own Steve Jobs


Re: It has? Who? And how many?

Metro for many users is a term of abuse in its own right, on par with Windows ME and Vista (perhaps slightly unfairly in my opinion, as early versions of XP were also crap until service packs came in).

Had Microsoft produced full featured programs such as Office in Metro from the start, and not made it a requirement to use the Microsoft Store to sell and distribute Metro programs, it may not have been such a disaster on the desktop. Developers have little interest in the platform. it may be a bit of a silly example, but the developers of Football Manager 2014 have produced mobile IOS, and Android versions, but nothing for RT / Metro - the Windows version is a 'legacy' application. Hell, they even consider it worthwhile to do a Linux port, the idea of big commercial games like that touching Linux was always a nice idea, but now it is becoming a reality. Not good news for "Metro fans".


Re: @Buck Futter, Tannin, et al:

Really? I have found that 'newbies' who are exposed to 8 have been in desperation looking for ways to get rid of it, be it asking friends to sort it out, or taking machines down to computer shops to either get them to put 'Windows' (as they know it) back on, or to return the machine. Intermediate users would have sorted out the problem themselves, as they would generally know how to install a Start Menu replacement, or install Windows 7 instead, and advanced users in the main would likely not have touched it in the first place, being happy with Windows 7 Professional, or even giving Linux a go. The sort of user who doesn't need a computer in the first place by now has an iPad or Android tablet.

Julie Larson-Green: Yes, MICROSOFT is going to KILL WINDOWS


Re: @Bootman


This very websites describes her as being responsible for Metro (and the ribbon for that matter). Doesn't sound like an innocent pawn in Sinofsky's game. There are videos of her eulogising Metro online if you can be bothered to search them out. So yes I have deep suspicion for someone responsible for two of the most unpopular user interface decisions Microsoft have made.


Julie, you already killed Windows when you saddled it with Metro.

What's wrong with Britain's computer scientists?



One word. Outsourcing. Far easier to pay someone abroad peanuts to do the same job...


Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2020