* Posts by ShortLegs

156 posts • joined 6 Apr 2012


Google Cloud Engine outage caused by 'large backlog of queued mutations'


Compaq servers could hot swap SIMMS, CPUs, NICs, and RAID cards, at least 15 years ago and possibly longer. Its not new.

Who needs the A-Team or MacGyver when there's a techie with an SCSI cable?



Many moons ago my nickname was "SCSI Al", or more likely "Scuzzy Al". Absolutely loved SCSI, and from 1996 every box I had was SCSI based. Usually based around "God's Own Controller", the Adaptec 2940UW until U160/320 came about (I had one U2 controller, but really skipped that generation), and some form of RAID, be it Compaq SMART-2DH or LSI boards.

*never* had an issue with termination, mixing devices (even 8-bit devices on a 16-bit bus - just install the narrow devices at the end of the chain and use the correct terminator).

The only problem I ever experienced wasn't really SCSI related. Large *cough cough* multinational, migrating from Netware 3 to Netware 4. B and I working late to migrate data from old to new servers. Large company, IT recognised as mission-critical and *no* expense was spared; Compaq shop through and through, mahoosive quad PPro boxes, loads RAM, mirrored RAID5 arrays 5x9GB UW drives (largest capacity one could buy at the time), spare components AND servers in server room "just in case".

Its the last weekend of the project, and we migrating over the main site file-and-print server and backup, which also provided Bindery services for network login. And the darn migration fails. Every. Single. Time. The new server runs out of disk space, despite having a [slightly] larger partition.

Those of you who remember Netware 3 and Netware 4 are nodding in anticipation. NW3 defaulted to a 4KB block size, although 16KB could be specified - but with a large number of small (<16kb) files, or filesize not a multilple of 16, disk space would be wasted. NW4 used a block size dependant on volume size. IIRC we had 32KB blocks, and no sub-block allocation...

Hundreds charged in internet's biggest child-abuse swap-shop site bust: IP addy leak led cops to sys-op's home


An Police Officer acquaintance of mine once had to review the photographs of children found on a laptop, and grade them by severity 1-5. All 45,000 of them. It took him 3 days non-stop work.

Not a job I could do. And most definitely not meet the accused, before or after the court appearance, and not refrain from stabbing the c*** in the face. How he managed not to I will never know.

Total respect to those who work in this field.

UK govt snubs Intel, seeks second-gen AMD Epyc processors for 28PFLOPS Archer2 supercomputer


Soooo whats happening to the old Archer - Ebay?

Google engineering boss sues web giant over sex discrim: I was paid less than men, snubbed for promotion


@The Dogs Meevonks

Re the guy who wanted to promote a 19yr old, and was cheating on his wife, thta wouldnt have been at the company formely known as Global Crossing/Level 3, or a leading business ISP, would it?

UK ISPs must block access to Nintendo Switch piracy sites, High Court rules


Did someone say "usenet"?

GIMP open source image editor forked to fix 'problematic' name


Re: Eh?

But 'GLASSHOLE" does, and seems kinda appropriate "Glimpse for assholes"

We will hack back if you tamper with our shiz, NATO declares to world's black hats


And if it is anything like the NATO response in Bosnia, and the Allied Rapid Reaction Farce, er, Force... NATO's 0-day offenisve capabilliites will be last years' patches exploits.

Biz forked out $115k to tout 'Time AI' crypto at Black Hat. Now it sues organizers because hackers heckled it


Imagine the auduence reaction had they presented ar DEFCON...

It will never be safe to turn off your computer: Prankster harnesses the power of Windows 95 to torment fellow students


Re: @Pascal Monett -- BOFH potential for sure

Youre not old enough to rememebr the Commodore PET "poke of dearh" then? One POKE commnad that caused the screen to burn out ( and the PET to allegedly catch fire)

Or even the assemble op-code HCF - hold and catch fire?

Steam cleaned of zero-day security holes after Valve turned off by bug bounty snub outrage


Actually, it sounds more like an [outsourced?] helpdesk bod, possibly trained in taking notes but no in-depth security skills, took the call and made the 'decision'.... a 'decision' arrived at by following a script/flow-chart thta led a box marked 'not a flaw'.

Of course, the flowchart was probably designed by a PH clueless mid-level manager wanting to make his mark :)

Off somewhere nice on holibobs? Not if you're flying British Airways: IT 'systems issue' smacks UK airports once again


Re: We are reaching out...

Not really, it implies they are trying to give /some/ comfort whilst shafting you... hence you'll never hear it

Our hero returns home £500 richer thanks to senior dev's appalling security hygiene


15 years and still active

Not so much a network password, but my DDI deskphone number, and voicemail, is /still/ active at a telco I left 15 years ago (and has been taken bought out twice over).... I wonder if the seedbox attached to the network in a POP is still there!

Hack a small airplane? Yes, we CAN (bus) – once we physically break into one, get at its wiring, plug in evil kit...


Until someone works out it is possible to attach a remote interface to the CAN bus, and then change the altimeter reading remotely...

He's coming for your floppy: Linus Torvalds is killing off support for legacy disk drive tech


Re: I remember floppy disks


it would have been 3 external drives; the Amiga could "only" take 4 drives, df0: through df3: so on an A500, one internal drive and three external chained from the rear external drive port.

We'll chalk that up to memory.

What I remember was going to a copy party in Doncaster, and seeing the a HUGE disk copy session; Amiga 1 - 2 over serlink, 2- 3 via parnet 3 - 4 over serlink, 4 -5 over parnet Each Amiga with 2 or more drives, and a copy going from df0: Amiga 1 to df2 or 3 on the end Amiga, and being copied to every drive on the intermediate machines.

Obviously it was a DOS disk (not NDOS), and was being copied to a file and then the file copied from machine to machine. The demo in question was the first a1200 demo, "Red Alert".

NDOS disks, well, XCopy and 4 drives was the limti.


Ah, C64 Turboloaders.... and the lovely flashing horizontal on-screen bars. Bought my first disk drive in 1985, when Debenhams were offering a 1541 and MPS801 printer for £199.99 Only to find the 1541 was slower than a tape turboloader, as the 1541 used a serial bus :(

Until disk turboloaders came out. My personal favourite was The Expert Cartridge. And then there were the parallel interfaces for the 1541, possible because the 1541 was an intelligent drive with its own on-board CPU and 2K RAM, always wanted DolphinDOS or Trilogic's Phantom, but never did get one. Did buy a "DeepScan BurstNibbler" cable, but by that time had replaced my 1541 with a 1541C - and it wasn't compatible :(

The schematics for parallel loaders (Dolphin or DiskDemon) have been available on-line for years, but the sense of nostalgia isn't quite enough to tempt me into buying a C64 and drive...

The same onboard CPU was also at the heart of C64 Fast Hack'em; one of the copiers allowed you to chain two drives together, source disk in one, blank disk in the other, start a copy... and then do something else on the C64. Very novel at the time.

Had a great affecttion for the 1541, a truly great drive let down only by the serial bus. There was an awesome book covering all the different copy protection methods, error 21, 23, 25, 27, fat tracks, long tracks, sync errors etc, beaten only by the Cracker-Jaxx series from Maverick / Hack-U

Personally, I loved the hardware "hacks" for disk drives; Supercard Ami II internal hardware copier for the Amiga, BackupBuddy for the C64, Copy ][ PC for the IBM Still have the Ami II and Copy ][ hardware.... dont ask why, I don't know, cant bear to sell them.

Bought 3 LS Superdisks in 1999, one for me and each of two mates, for copying stuff between each other. They never got fitted, never got used, and I found them in the loft a year ago, complete with a single LS-120 disk. Obsolete because CD-R became affordable in 1996, with the Ricoh CD55 (or was it TEAC?), and then Yamaha's awesome CDR200 and CDR400 drives (superb models, with very moddable firmware).

I know one of my PCs has a disk drive. I have a box of disks somewhere - some old Amiga stuff, some old PC stuff, a Netware licence disk... and thats about tt. Haven't read a disk since, 2012? 2007?

Disk drives. Consigned to nostalgia since 1999.

Giffgaff goody-baddy-bag billing faff: Ofcom fines operator £1.4m for overcharging folks by almost £3m


Hang on, whilst i give them credit for fessing up, i dont recall them fessing uo to overcharging me TWICE what i used for six years. My refund came to about £8. I was using a goodybag worth each mon, and often topping up by a tenner when i exceeded voice mins or data. Over 6 years thats a [email protected]@k load more than eight quid.

Been a customer for years, will continue to do so as im happy, but that leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

Marriott's got 99 million problems and the ICO's one: Starwood hack mega-fine looms over


Regardless, at least the ICO is starting to impose fines than DO appear on the balance sheet as tangible numbers, not the piddling £10,000 £250,000 fines of the last decade or so, that were nothing more than rounding errors.

And, frankly, Marriot's response is leagues ahead of BA's in terms of admission. BA's was nothing more than and indignant 'harrumpf' and a plaintive "we are unaware of any loss to anyone [so why should we be fined]" bleat.

DeepNude deep-nuked: AI photo app stripped clothes from women to render them naked. Now, it's stripped from web


Re: release it for the world's weirdos to use

"Liking to look at naked women is not the same as liking to look at naked women who don't want to be seen naked. In the second case, the one you're on about, it's weird because it's not about seeing boobs, it's aboout controlling the other person. It's the fact they don't want you to see them naked that makes it so exciting to you."

Except you are not looking at a picture of a naked woman who did not want to be seen naked. You are looking at a picture of her face, and a non-existent image representative of a female body. Not *her* body, but a generic body. The "she" is not being seen naked.

That said, I'm not condoning the software (or even the practice of superimposing anyone on another object for the objective of personal gratification), because :creepy. But let's call it out for what it is, than what it isn't.

BOFH: What's Near Field Implementation? Oh, you'll see. Turn left here


Ah yes, the user who thinks *his* problem is *your* crisis. As dumb as a cow, as stubborn as a mule, once they get the idea that it is IT related because: <reason>

Has a lot in common with a wife/girlfriend, and acquaintances who think that because you "are in IT" you know all about TV's, A/V kit, ICE, because "its all the same".

Pass me my cattle prod and LART*, I'm going in....

*Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool, aka a pick-handle.

Greatest threat facing IT? Not the latest tech giant cockwomblery – it's just tired engineers


Re: Well.. What did you expect?

Fag breaks? Mate, you could smoke at the desk.

When booking a meeting room, you could also book tea, coffee, biscuits, and cigarettes. I'd book meeting rooms just to collect 40 cigs, take them downstairs, and throw them at^H^H^H, erm, "distribute them" to the smokers.

Every so often every desk would have a packet of "$company's premium brand" on the desk, or even a carton of 200. Restaurant was subsidised; breakfast cost a maximum of 40p, lunch was wholly free. Bar was subsidised, too.

Unsurprisingly, between the limitless free food, the bar, and the hours, I went from 9 1/2 stone to over 12 stone in 18 months... took some working off. But happy, happy days.


We were doing 80-100hr weeks routinely at a certain large British Tobacco company just over 20 years ago. At the time, it wasn't that strenuous; the work was challenging, but fun, well rewarded, and they had superb management team (ok, 'superb' in the sense of no PHBs, no absurd management decisions, tech decisions left to techs and not over-riden, and a culture of costing the build rather than building to cost).

Despite the hours worked, mistakes were very few and very far between.

Never let something so flimsy as a locked door to the computer room stand in the way of an auditor on the warpath


The inverse of gaining entry is getting out, I guess. Here's a recent example.

Relocate one site to another. Due to nature of work, Apps team requires a secure office - chip and pin swipe access, barred windows, etc. Two days before the move, one guy from Apps team plus an IT bod pop to get "eyes-on" the new office. IT bod's fob -correctly - cannot gain access to room. Apps guy's fob works, and they can enter the room.

Try to get out - nah-nah, computer says no. Try again, still no joy. Try IT's fob. Nope. Being "new" to the site, they have no contacts, no phone numbers of who to call. Apps dude rings his boss, who rejects the call and follows up with a txt "sorry, in a conf call". Promptly texts back "am locked in the secure room. You've got 5 minutes to find someone to release us or I'm going out the fire exit"

Triggering the fire alarms at this site not just evacuates the building, but triggers a multi-tender response from the emergency services and a very large bill, and a corresponding impact on customer operations - ie, a very expensive proposition - and the Apps dude is known for not bluffing...

As the IT guy retold the story, he sat down and set a timer on his phone to 5mins. Facilities arrived with seconds to spare.

Fob policy was revised so that whilst room entry was on a case-by-case basis, every fob could exit every room.

Quit worrying about killer robots, they are coming whether you like it or not – and they absolutely will not stop


Re: Isn't this all bollocks though?

"The only price for collateral damage is the price of the wasted munitions and a short bollocking in the Guardian."

Tell that to Soldier F et al

Techie with outdated documentation gets his step count in searching for non-existent cabinet


And what was "Wayne's" manager doing over the next four weeks? Did he not notice the PO for a switch and an OT form cross his desk?

Every time I've run a team or department, I've ensured every single person knows how to say "no" to outside requests, other managers, and if the other person doesn't accept "no", to hang up/walk away with the comment "Please speak to my manager, "shortlegs". It's called 'aircover', because loyalty works both ways and as a manager that is part of the role.

No problems supporting anyone else in the business, just go about requesting it the right way, and I'll make the decision, prioritise the task, and if needed help you budget it ;)

Veteran vulture Andrew Orlowski is offski after 19 years at The Register


So long, and thanks for all the tish ;)

Good luck in the future, whatever you do.

Vodafone exec dons tartan tam-o'-shanter, clutches bottle of Irn-Bru, in snap shared with firm... just before Glasgow staff told of redundo dates


"getting ready for this months audience with Antonio... some exciting news to share"

Why on Earth did this muppet think "some exciting news to share" was an apt caption to post, prior to "sharing" news of redundancies?

Seriously, I thought "bro culture" was an American "thing" but it appears to be alive and well in Vodaphone, in the guise of John Low and Antonio Shabbir.

I've never had much time for "stereotyping", but the entire Scottish staff ought to raise a complaint with HR regarding that picture.

Lenovo kicks down door of MWC, dumps a stack of sexy new ThinkPads


Re: 400-bit FHD display

>Is there an equivalent of audiophiles for screens? Throw in some gold contacts and they'll be flying off

>the shelves.

No no no no no, it needs to be marketed as "oxygen-free grade gold plated contacts, leading to a clear improvements in auditory spaciousness with a increased resolution and a revelatory separation of instruments"

Bored bloke takes control of British Army 'psyops' unit's Twitter


Inaccuracy in the article

A brigade does not "usually" consist of 650+/- soldiers, that is an Infantry Battalion, or support-arms Regiment.

A Brigade is a composite formation, either Infantry or Armour in focus, complete with support arms such as RE, Sigs, REME, etc, and number between 3,500 - 5000. We don't have many of these, as ever since the early 90's the MoD has cut and chopped them beyond recognition.

It's 2019, and a PNG file can pwn your Android smartphone or tablet: Patch me if you can


Re: Oh well

Regrettably my S5 has had one security patch since I bought it. I'm not holding my breath.

I know Samsung et al like customised ROMs so they can throw bloatware in it, but FFS, after x years of never using their "added-value apps" surely they can let go and allow Google to push out vanilla ROMs c/w patches.

Housing biz made to pay £1.5k for sticking fingers in its ears when served a subject access request


1 down, about 19 million more to go.

Accused hacker Lauri Love to sue National Crime Agency to retrieve confiscated computing kit


Re: Why does he want five-year-old kit back?

Because it is *his*.

If the Police confiscated your belongings, as potential evidence in a case against you, of which you have never been found guilty, you are perfectly entitled to the return of your belongings. Whether they are of use or not is moot.

Ca-caw-caw: Pigeon poops on tot's face as tempers fray at siege of Lincoln flats


Air rifle.

The people who complain about such measures do not live in an area blighted by pigeons. Of course, should they ever suffer that problem, after the first bought of hand-wringing and failed "humane" solutions, they tend to 'regretfully' propose using an air rifle.

The other point is that those handwringers tend to live in houses not flats, cul-de-sacs not estates, and the council responds to their issues in far less time than three years....

Been there, seen it, done it.


Air rifle.

The people who complain about such measures do not live in an area blighted by pigeons. Of course, should they ever suffer that problem, after the first bought of hand-wringing and failed "humane" solutions, they tend to 'regretfully' propose using an air rifle.

The other point is that those handwringers tend to live in houses not flats, cul-de-sacs not estates, and the council responds to their issues in far less time than three years....

Been there, seen it, done it.

Begone, Demon Internet: Vodafone to shutter old-school pioneer ISP


Re: Good article.

Cheers Cliff

Another former "tenner-a-month" member, and ex-Cixen

Medical advice app Your.MD could have been tampered with by anyone, alleges ex-veep


Re: Sounds to me...

I venture that Mansfield knows exactly "how the internet works", and purposely stayed away from using any other term. His remarks were not aimed at the plaintiff, but at the panel - who quite probably *dont* know anything about network reconnaissance, but are aware of Google, because "everyone knows you use google to find things on the internet".

It actually appears as though the plaintiff doesn't know that much about "how the internet" works, insofar as 'security', else his response would have been somewhat different (and, I hope, cutting)

You were told to clean up our systems, not delete 8,000 crucial files


I can relate, but it would have been a SCSI drive. Seagate did not have a 4.3GB (E)IDE drive at that time. They did offer the Barracuda SCSI in 2.1, 4.3 and 9.1GB flavours, the later two tending to be SCSI UW, and half-height.. and weighed a ton.

I remember a Computer Weekly (what ever the trade weekly rag was back then) reporting that Barclay's had had an issue with two drives failing in a RAID5 setup, and a "massive" 45GB array was at risk :-)


Not true. The 528mb limit was encountered in the early-to-mid 90's. 850MB IDE disks were available in 1994/5, 1.2GB in 1996, whilst SCSI disks were available up to 9.1GB.


or not. DOS/BIOS used CHS addressing back then, and the max limit was 1024 cylinders, 16 heads, 63 sectors per track, giving a maximum disk size of 528MB. By 1993/4 this had become an issue, as consumer hard disks were available that approached this size; often a new hard disks would be sold with a floppy containing a manufacture-supplied driver to workaround the issue, e.g. SeaTools, DriveManager.

That said, IIRC Windows 95 was never supplied via DGITS/CCTA, the supported OS were Windows 3.11 and WinNT 3/4.

Racing at the speed of light, Sage superhero bursts through the door...


Re: Not me...

Many moons ago, the company I worked for was Cisco's biggest customer, and likewise were paying tens of millions for a maintenance contract with them. Didn't take long to work out how we could reduce spend by >90%. Cue a very urgent meeting request from Cisco.

Now although being a PBH at the time, I like to keep my hand in so was helping some of the engineers with an install, thinking I would don suit and tie after, in time for aforesaid meeting. Am outside, in raggy chino's, grubby company polo shirt, smoking a dog-eared rollup when Cisco execs arrive and enter building. As I follow them in, one turns round, scowls at me, and shuts the door in my face.

Decided not to wear a suit, walked into meeting and let colleague introduce me as " shortlegs, the senior manager who is hosting this meeting and deciding our maintenance strategy". The expression on the face of the Cisco exec was "Mastercard".

Not that we were immune. One of our customers had secured a multi-billion contract in the US. Cue our Account Manager (salesman) walking into a meeting with them, turning round to the only female present and saying "white two sugars love". He then went on to ignore her all afternoon.

Not the cleverest attitude to take with the Director, Service Management.

Lesson 101: don't pee off any individual at a client site, you have no idea who they are. Most especially when they are the most important person in the room.

Heard the one where the boss calls in an Oracle consultant who couldn't fix the database?


Re: The Hot Shot Database Team

>I had a developer team no less[1] ask for a test VMware server to be created with 10GB of RAM

> because they thought all the data needed to be loaded into memory before they could loop through it

> doing what ever it was (some trivial summation type calculation).

>[1] I say team - it was actually just two people but I was shocked that neither had the first clue about

> relational databases.

>I offered to write the code for them but being a mere "infrastructure architect" at the time I wasn't

> allowed to.

Um, you didn't work at an organisation called, um, "steel hill", or "ferrous geographical feature" or "metal molehill"....

Scumbag hackers lift $1m from children's charity


Re: Who are the criminals here?

"RSPCA is one of the worst offenders for this, they have executives on massive salaries and the local centres are franchises that have to do their own fundraising."

One of the worst? NO, the RSPCA is THE worst. It is not just the massive salaries, it is the levels they will sink to in order to increase revenue.

Your deceased father left a small legacy to the RSPCA and the rest of his estate to you? The RSPCA have challenged such wills in court, demanding a larger share of the estate.


"The RSPCA said later in a statement: 'All the RSPCA has done is try to honour what we believe was Mr Mason's clear intention to avoid anyone paying inheritance tax.'"

Aye, that will be the clear intention that stated "£60,000 to him, £400,000 to them, and £300,000 to the RSPCA." I can't see it being any clearer, yet the RSPCA's translation was "The RSPCA argued that Mr Mason's will should be considered in such a way that it would receive £651,820."

Neighbour leaves a plot of land for wildlife, on the proviso that it was to be left as is, for the wildlife? The RSPCA sell the land to property developers because the will did not explicitly it was not to be developed.


Money-grubbing little brutes, the lot of them. From the obnoxious in-your-face "hi-how-are-you-doing-can-you-spare-2-minutes" street muggers to the overpaid, self-serving hypocrites at the top.

Total Inability To Support User Phones: O2 fries, burning data for 32 million Brits


Re: Backup?


[i]"I’ll get my coat. It’s the light weight one for Summer wear."[/i]

ROFLMAO :) Wish I could give more than the one upvote

He's not cracked RSA-1024 encryption, he's a very naughty Belarusian ransomware middleman


But is it unethical, let alone illegal?

K&R consultancy is an established, respectable market. Senior executives and wealthy individuals often carry K&R insurance; in the unfortunate scenario of being kidnapped, the insurance carrier pays for a specialist K&R company to negotiate the release of a victim. Kidnappers - allegedly - prefer dealing with such individuals as they know that they will be paid, there will be no Police involvement, and that a payment will be made (at low risk to them).

This is little different. And I suspect, if Dr Shifro's track record is >50%, that the miscreants behind Dr Shifro prefer to deal with him; if he is contacting them then they know the victim has paid, and that it is in their long-term "business" interests to provide the key.

Untasteworthy business, but Dr S can be considered the IT equivalency of a K&R consultant.

What is at fault is the marketing/advertising of the provided "service". Change that, and the business is legitimate.

Naked women cleaning biz smashes patriarchy by introducing naked bloke gardening service


Re: Why is it sexist


"I'd imagine lady commentards (c'mon, both of you help me out here, please?) would enjoy the concept of a naked Chippendale doing the housework rather than gardening"

Actually, ladies /did/ enjoy seeing naked (well, topless) "Chippendales" doing building/gardening and ironing.

Naked Builders featured twice on GMTV about 8 years ago, and on the back of that was Naked Ironing in Cheshire.

Now you, too, can snoop on mobe users from 3G to 5G with a Raspberry Pi and €1,100 of gizmos


What is interesting (to me) is the equipment, and what device cost e1140

"needed... a universal software radio peripheral, a smartcard reader, and the OpenLTE software. Excluding the laptop, they said the kit cost €1,140 "

OpenLTE - free

smartcard reader - e15 - e60

Now what "universal software radio" component costs around £1000/e1100? I'm guessing a transceiver, capable of covering up to 6GHz, given that an RTL dongle can cover upto 1.750Ghz and costs around e30.

Hmmm <starts looking at my ETL8000 and R820 based SDR hobby horses>

Former headteacher fined £700 after dumping old pupil data on server at new school


It begs the question "why?"

Why would a headmaster - or any teacher - want pupil data from a previous school in his new position. More worryingly, why lie that the data had been deleted, especially so when it is common knowledge that data doesn't just copy itself from a device, but has to be manually copied.

Is there a transcript of the Court session, and/or the ICO's findings available?

Microsoft polishes up Chromium as EdgeHTML peers into the abyss


I tried Edge once... it drove me over the edge to Chrome

hat, coat...

Oz opposition caves, offers encryption backdoor compromise


Can you not see the GroupThink:

1. We [governments of most nations] are still alarmed by the ease of which a small group organised the petrol protests of 2001 in the UK, with nothing more than SMS messages

2. The Internet gives dissenters much greater ability to protest

3. Hmm, that Internet thing, could be great for surveillance of our own people. And if it wasn't for those darned encryption thingies...

4. Hey, Mr Tech Company, give us access to everyone's messages. There's shed loads of money for various Govt projects about here in exchange for data, and of course, my non-exec Directorship

5. The public? "Think of the children! Terrorists! Think of the children! Terrorists!"

Stats model: UK small biz overpays for stealth mobile plans


Telco's pricing plans complex and obscure? Now there's a surprise, as no-one ever said.



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