Re: Fire, okay, collision, no
I'd say on balance of evidence there was almost certainly an issue with collision avoidance at least at some stage.
2337 posts • joined 12 Feb 2010
This may give you a better idea of the numbers and it may just be three workshops. To late here to be bothered to dig much sorry.
As for the quaranting on site, this is one of the things they do here. Better they stay in site than travel out and spread the virus more is the theory.
This is sort of one of the things they will do here even to blocking off cities and provinces. But at City level I have seen it as well with a case cropping up a few km away (a few waves back as well) in Hanoi, and the whole area being closed off. No one out, food delivered, gov provides meals as well, medical staff on call. The speed they will lockdown a place at risk can be fast (whole city basically shut off in day fast).
Vaccine availability here is low still, I'd be surprised if many had been vaccinated.
This is what I thought, my muscle memory is perfectly ok having learned normal key layout, and its frustrating enough swapping between US and UK keyboard layouts. I don't want to confuse the issue by having one special no standard key layout on one device for no particular good reason.
Most of the news I see for VN living here, seems to be more based around getting the Astra Zeneca and Pfizer, Sputnik they are building a factory for apparently. They are also in stage 3 trials of their own.
I think they are getting as many as they can really, the chances of getting them originally was harder because most G8 countries had a priority to them, (TBF also most chucked in a lot of money for research into them).
But this is the biggest outbreak here I think, and they will do things like quarantine a whole factory, in fact there's an image of them setting out tents in one place cos the workers are now quarantined, and someone I know ended up quarantined on the farm they worked at for a few months. Right now I think they are really trying to keep those places going because its going to hit the factory workers hard.
I do think in some way this may have helped with the public. SARs was very remote to people living in the UK. meanwhile this played out on the public consciousness in Vietnam.
The words China and Virus, absolutely got peoples ears here pricked up from day one, people already started taking precautions as soon as those words hit the news and it just became a thing that you wear masks and wash hands even before it was official. People were worried.
I believe at the time the gov vowed never to risk something like that getting in the wild again, and pretty much said at the beginning of COVID we'd rather shut down now and have a small mistake than have a disaster.
Public attitude IMO has been a major factor in shutting down the spread. So saying there must have been a point we could have thought people should have been getting a clue also when we saw it hitting other countries.
As someone who had a choice to make of whether to stay in Vietnam, or return to the UK. Never had my judgement been so wrong on who would handle it so well. I stayed in Vietnam because I had elderly parents and coming through every airport seemed a bad idea, I thought better I ride it out in Vietnam, I mean standard hospitals here are scary (and private hospitals few), its still to some degree a developing country, cleanliness etc not as much. I expected it to be the worst hit vs somewhere like the UK.
Politicians seemed only to be giving a shit about their shareholders and party contributors staying open.
People were dropping like flies in Italy, I had UK colleagues still discussing holidays in Spain and the Cheltenham festival was on, there was discussion about keeping music festivals going. I had American colleagues actually tell me as Americans it took their freedom away to wear a mask while they sat in lockdown that weekend, and I went to bars and hit the countryside for a jolly.
I've genuinely sat here last year and been amazed at the batshit craziness that seems to have been the mark of countries outside of APAC response.
Was just about to offer same thoughts, as long as to some degree the money difference isn't too much and you can afford to live on it. There is a lot of value in time and mental health. I'd rather get less and have more time than be stuck in an office doing extra hrs each day, bad managers, workmates, stress because that's the culture there.
Grab actually seems quite suited to SEA in a way, the usefulness of a motorcycle driver you can send to pick up anything, and the amount of motorcycle taxis out here (and maybe a bit of the fact you see the fee since gypsy cabs, overcharging etc is quite common on some places) , it's pretty much the default choice for anyone here, even to the point of getting a grab even on a street there is taxis.
I'm not sure it will work as easily in somewhere like the USA though.
Agreed here I actually remember the first mobile phones and they were hugely expensive and impractical.
I could see gamers wanting it, and content consumption, especially where I am in SEA, most people here tend to use their mobiles for those very things over laptops. But it will be a long time before the price drops enough to actually match the average pocket in SEA from the looks of things.
Imagine the situation in reverse. If a bunch of hedgies piled in to drive the price of an ailing company to a clearly artificial level at the expense of a bunch of small time day traders and retail trend followers, prosecutions for market manipulation would follow.
If you had stopped there it would have been a classic example of poes law.
I can't say having never lived in China, but from what I can see they are less authoritarian in Vietnam, however the first link posted up by another commenter is fair and should be read.
Ironically/unfortunately there seems to have been a resurgence in covid as there were 82 cases today traced back from 2 initial.
So here's how the response has gone so far, province now social distancing (and if the gov wants they will shut down a province (they have done before) which is basically the same as a state or county) schools closed for a week. Don't know about any mask order but probably.
They have the authority here and being one party no political shenanigans to get in the way, when announced its happening. No arguments.
But here is the other thing, ask any Vietnamese at the moment there would you send your kids to school if open and the answer would likely be a resounding fuck no. Masks were probably being worn by everyone (rather than just some) as soon as word of that would have got out, the gov order to mask wear would almost be not neccessary. They treat this with a healthy paranoia to some degree out here and actually start taking steps like handwashing etc way before having to be told to.
There's plenty of good reasons to accuse the gov of not being truthful (see that above link) but in this they seem to be approaching it with total transparency because its probably the best tactic when your population hears stuff and goes into pandemic fight mode by itself.
There's good reasons to belive the gov in this, Oxford researchers, and two other groups also backed the numbers. The Vietnamese gossip network would also make George Smiley take notes for its breadth and efficiency, you would be able to tell how worried this country is about covid because you could just count the amount of mask wearers increasing, shops suddenly putting out hand sanitisers and so on. They would be hard put to hide deaths in neighbourhoods that basically know every neighbours business.
I've been in Vietnam since this started. Tourism is hit, but the rest of the economy is open. That means money isn't going to the Jeff Bezos types because everywhere else is closed, but moving everywhere at all levels, street vendors, small shops, and even tourist spots (internal tourism) and apart from about 2-4 weeks for most (clubs were closed earlier, education centres were shut down for months, some tourist places have stayed closed), that's the only close down they have had. the economy is going to bounce back way quicker because of this.
Also mask and stuff yeah they definitely work, I cant see why wearing a mask is uncourageous TBH.
Agreed. At the moment money it seems in places like the UK and USA are filtering to just a few big cmpanies, so Amazon does well, Sainsburies does well etc. The money doesn't really get taxes paid on it, or go anywhere except to a few (yes I know wages etc but the real bulk of the money) and maybe sort of trickles down to a few people when some exec buys a suneeker. Meanwhile small businesses that contribute tax and generally spread the profits through the less than 1% crowd are dying.
Countries that are now opened up, that money is moving to them, the hairdresser can stay open, the cafe, the corner shop. It's money more at the real society level and its moving around.
Yes & no, if you look at countries like Vietnam, they certainly did have advantages in being able to lockdown hard with no compromise, they closed ff a province (pretty much like closing a county or state), they closed schools near the end of Jan, if a case appeared on a street they closed off the street and quarantined it. Definetly not easy to do in more democratic countries in Europe, USA. However worth noting they also really had the logistics of it worked out, they were practicing locking down streets and the reaction, the places locked down where fed 3 sq meals a day (and it looked pretty good TBH), doctors in, takeaways, shopping could be delivered to a pick up point etc etc. It's probably a lot easier facing getting your street quarantined when you know its being handled well.
Effectively though most of the country only experienced about 3 weeks of lockdown and it was hardly noticeable.
But countries that were democracies also did well kike New Zealand & Taiwan. I think aomw of it is because of how the goverments handled it. There was a certain trust in the goverment and thats because the goverment were being very clear with their messages and making sensible moves. Do sensible things, be properly organised, give sensible advice, give a united front, people are more likely to get on board. The whole tier system in the UK and rules is just bewildering.
Way I see it, it's not 100% effective alone, neither is handwashing. But you defeat the virus by a thousand cuts. If the idea is to keep hospitals operating under capacity and slowing spread, than even 10% more effective a stopping spread makes a difference. Lots of little things add up to giving you a more contollable situation. So yeah just going well screw masks let's not wear them at all (especially when really come in it's a mask it's not like you're being asked to chop your leg off), is just silly.
The understanding was mask helped prevent spreading by stopping droplets from your breath, and also have a possibility of you getting less of a viral load becuase they are not 100% effective.
I live in a country that masked up and started hand washing right away. The coronavirus effectively doesn't exist here at the moment. So I cant help think you are talking rubbish.
I feel there may have been two different approaches to taking advice or at least re-acting to the viruses. Here in Vietnam for example they went lets take the advice and react like it is very scary, realise we have no facilities to really deal with it, go hard and ease lockdown if it isn't that bad, a lot of the world seems to have gone, well we have a good health infrastructure, we can ease into lockdown and rely on our systems being robust and hope to keep the country open and take it from there.
We lost a Californian kingsnake once, and we surmise it lived under the floorboards for most of the year, it was eventually found healthy happy and a bit bigger in the garden the following Summer. That was also the day I saw my mums friend (who discovered it) break the hundred metres sprinting record.
At one point we also had geckos living in the airing cupboard, the things our parents had to put up with.
That seems a great way to help world peace along, lets build up some real resentment in the middle of a pandemic, help still keep the world economy shut down, cause suffering and death for profit.
I bet you think insulin should be at water charge the company can get away with also.
There is the possibility of availability if you are not in the right gang, its possibly one of the reasons countries like Vietnam are working on developing their own.
Recently in Saigon an airline steward went through 2 tests and came out negative and then went into 5 days isolation and then self isolation at home, it turns out they actually were positive, they were visited during the isolation at home and this has caused some cases.
So 5 days may not be enough.
Where I am at the moment, if you are coming in for a significant business deal then you are still quarantined for 2 weeks and then a further 2 weeks self isolation. You also have to take the tests and be negative before flying etc.
Then again we have all been allowed to go to the pub and do normal things for most of the year and generally speaking the economy is in less of a shambles because of this, plus only a few people have died. I think I prefer this option TBH.
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