* Posts by IvyKing

246 publicly visible posts • joined 3 Jul 2009


Game dev accuses Intel of selling ‘defective’ Raptor Lake CPUs


Re: Power, and stuff.

Pretty much so. It sounds like they were pushing the process a bit too hard.


Re: Power, and stuff.

I've seen a number of PSU's in circa 2000 Dell computers fail after emitting the magic smoke, so the problem with PSU's was not limited to "no-name models".

I'm suspecting that there is a thermal issue that Intel glossed over, local heating of the die can slow down the logic elements, which could then lead to timing glitches causing the crash. I'm also wondering if the new process nodes are punting stricter limits on maximum junction temperatures to prevent diffusion of the N and P dopants.

FreeDOS and FreeBSD prove old code never dies, just gets nifty updates


Re: Why?

"TCP/IP was developed on BSD (the original BSD at Berkeley University in the USA)."

Ahem: BSD was developed at the University of California at Berkeley (UCB) and BSD stands for Berkeley Software Distribution. FWIW, the license associated with BSD was most likely derived from the license used with SPICE, another software developed at UCB. I'm a Cal grad from the time that UNIX was originally installed on the PDP-11 that replaced the CDC-6400 B macine.

How Europe can force Apple to support competition


Re: Google chrome

Apple's requiring ios web browsers to be based on Webkit is probably the only thing that keeps Google's Chrome from becoming the second coming of Internet Explorer. This is from someone who has used Mozilla browsers (Netscape & Firefox) for 90+% of my browsing.

Privacy features lose their way in latest Firefox update


Re: Uh-huh...

I've found that properly configured Firefox does block ads on a number of sites without an adblocker extension.

Amtrak confirms crooks are breaking into accounts using creds swiped from other DBs


Re: Worlds largest?

The is a more subtle reason for the delays. Owning, maintaining and paying property tax track is expensive, so the host railroads set up the track to efficiently handle trains running at freight train speeds. Building track to handle passenger trains in addition to freight trains adds significantly to the cost of track, but Amtrak is not paying anywhere near the amount needed to cover those costs.

Many cities have commuter rail options where the cities bought the track from the railroads that built the track, and the dispatching on those lines is handled by the commuter rail authorities. These typically give priority to the commuter trains over the Amtrak trains.

Gates-backed nuclear plant breaks ground without guarantee it'll have fuel


Re: Why is the dirty word of nuclear energy...

The US did have a couple of Thorium fuel cycle reactors going after 1969. One was the Fort St Vrain HTGR in Colorado and the other was the "Light Water Breeder Reactor" in Pennsylvania. What hasn't run since 1969 is the molten salt reactor at Oak Ridge. One option that is talked about less than MSR's is the EBR-II inspired Integral Fast Reactor, where the fuel is reprocessed on site and the fissile portion is never separated from the metallic fission products.

I suspect that the Natrium reactors will eventually be switched to running mixed oxide fuel as there is a lot of reactor grade Plutonium sitting around in spent fuel. That assumes that the Natrium reactors get licensed in a timely manner, which may be helped by Harry Reid's buddy being long gone from the NRC.

Apple built custom servers and OS for its AI cloud


Re: Cloud servers...

Which might explain why Apple has not released an M3 Mini, as the custom servers may well be M3 Minis.

An Xserve with M-series processors could be interesting, as the performance per watt would save a lot on power and cooling (i.e. power and water).

OpenAI to buy electricity from CEO Sam Altman's nuclear fusion side hustle


Re: I would love for Helion to succeed

I would be nice if Helion could pull it off, but more than a half century of watching various fusion projects leaves me a bit skeptical.

Sodium ion batteries: Yet another innovation poised to be dominated by China


Re: Um, no

I think you missed the sarcasm...

Surging datacenter power demand slows the demise of US coal plants


Re: Data centre tax

A better way of encouraging data centers to "behave properly" is to set up the electric rates so that they pay spot market prices + a fixed charge for handling the costs of transmission and distribution. Coal fueled power plants are best suited for base load generation and are a really bad choice for peaking.. Data centers presumably present a relatively constant load and thus make a good customer for coal fueled plants.

Ohio power plants want special tariffs on datacenters to protect regional grid


I think it is perfectly reasonable for the utilities to say either pay money up front or sign a contract requiring the data centers to pay at least 90% of the capacity they contracted for. I would also require that the data centers be charged a premium for power used during peak demand times. The peak demand charge would be a good incentive for the DC's to have onsite energy storage.

I also think that the data centers shouldn't be cut any slack for the environmental permitting for onsite backup generation.

Flexing financial muscles, Arm aims to elbow into Windows PC market


Re: Dead wrong

Intel and AMD may be able to make their offerings more competitive by dropping the 16/32 bit features of their processors in favor of pure x64 bit software. IOW, follow Apple's lead when 'Catalina' would only run x64 opcode. This made Apple's transition to ARM much easier, but an x64 only processor would have fixed length instructions making decode simpler and faster.

The current Intel instruction set has remnants of the 8008 instruction set, which I was first exposed to 51 years ago.

Microsoft dusts off ancient MS-DOS 4.0 code for release on GitHub



Circa 1997, Microsoft's response to a subpoena for the MS-DOS source code was that they lost the source files. IIRC, the subpoena was from one of the anti-trust suits that MS was facing at the time, and makes me wonder if the files were intentionally deleted.


Re: Early Windows source code versions

You are confusing Windblows and DOS. The 4.0 release was for MS-DOS which would be about the same time frame as Windows 2-something. I had not need for DOS 4.0 having installed Compaq DOS 3.31 on my machine. Made sure that AUTOEXEC,BAT had a line to set the prompt to use ":" as Tim Paterson intended as opposed to Kildahl's ">". I wold have liked to have been able to fix one incompatibility of PC hardware with the DOS time function as the intent was that it would report to the nearest 0.01 second as implemented by the SCP CPU support board.

I was quite intrigued by the experimental multi-tasking extensions to DOS, after seeing references to a "future" multi-user version of DOS alluded to in the 86-DOS user's manual.

The eight-bit Z80 is dead. Long live the 16-bit Z80!


Don't forget Technical Design Labs

TDL were the folks that wrote much of the software (e.g. Zapple monitor) to make a Z-80 run like a Z-80 as opposed to be an 8080 clone that just needed 5V. TDL went the way that most of the early micro pioneers went, going under ca 1979. Many of the people from TDL later went on to write a successful IBM PC BIOS clone.

I wonder what the micro-computer industry would be like if Zilog had announced the Z-800 in early 1979 with sampling later that year?

Microsoft really does not want Windows 11 running on ancient PCs


Re: Alternative

I will go out on a limb by saying that all but the last couple of versions (i.e. the ones with the ribbon) of MS-Word for DOS were fairly decent. MS was encouraging people to use styles and a style sheet, and they had a book explaining how and when to use styles with lots of examples how to set up styles. The look of a document could be quickly changed by simply attaching a different stylesheet and it was possible to have different default styles by placing different default style sheets in different working directories.

One other reason for hating Word for Windows with a passion is having worked with Island Write. The process for placing an image in an Island Write document was first creating a container, then placing the image in the container with options for scaling the image. What was really cool about Island Write was that the container could be modified to be an arbitrary shape, with words wrapping around that shape. Apple's Pages is noticeably easier than Word for inserting images when doing word processing documents, though I haven't played as much as I should with page layout documents.

I've got mixed feeling about LO, with much of it trying too hard to be an MS-Word clone, though the drawing package is unmatched by either MS-Office or Apple's "Office".

Uncle Sam, 15 US states launch antitrust war on Apple


The equivalent of what MS did with windows would have been for Apple to say to the various telcos that if you want the discount price on iPhones, you can only sell iPhones to your customer. Since iMessage makes use of Apple's servers, I don't see a problem with Apple to require use of Apple hardware to use the full functionality of iMessage. The "monopoly" with iMessage is pretty much a US thing.

Where Apple does face anti-trust issues is requiring that web browsers on iOS use Webkit along with requiring apps running on iOS to be purchased through the Apple Store.

As for "makes it tough to dump iOS for rivals", isn't that pretty much how MS operates with their Office suite?


Not quite the same thing. Apple's market share in smartphones is no where near Microsoft's market share in personal computer OS's. By excluding Chrome from the iPhones and iPads, Apple may be doing us a favor in preventing Google using its monopoly power from making Chrome the only option for web browsing.

What strange beauty is this? Microsoft commits to two more non-subscription Office editions


Re: First hit is always free-ish.

That's where I think MS went astray when transitioning from Word for DOS to Word for Windows. Word for DOS had a rather decent approach to style sheets and MS went to the effort of creating a book about how to create and use style sheets. As long as one was consistent with naming and using styles, changing font size and typeface would be attaching a style sheet with the appropriate font size and typeface.

The "downside" of style sheets is that one needed to have an existing style sheet prior to writing the document and one also needed to use the style sheet as the only method for formatting the document.

TrueNAS CORE 13 is the end of the FreeBSD version


Reminds of an old Slashdot Troll

BSD is dying, Netcraft confirms it. OTOH, MacOS has a primarily BSD userland, which certainly helps MacPorts and Homebrew maintain a large selection of open source software for the Mac.

I also feel a bit of nostalgia about the one of the original distributors of BSD phasing out BSD. One selling point for BSD was pointing out that the Walnut Creek server could keep a 100Mbps link saturated while running on a 386. Another reason for feeling nostalgic is that I probably passed most of the original BSD developers at on time or another in my years at Cal. To top it off, I just read that the last of the original BART cars will be making their final run next month.

FCC ups broadband benchmark speeds, says rural areas still underserved


Re: I'll wait for it

Have you ever been in eastern Montana? Or any very rural area in the western US? While not as sparsely populated as the Australian Outback, there can be quite a bit of distance between customers, so it often doesn't make economic sense to string fiber on speculation. The rollout of fiber optic service in my city was base in part on how many people in a neighborhood were willing to put down a very nominal sum to pre-order service. Keep in mind the city I live in probably has as many people as the State of Montana wast of Billings.

As far as the reimbursement, I've known people who had to pay to have utility lines extended to their homes, but did get a partial reimbursement every time a new home was built in their area.


Re: Still the same Bravo-Sierra game

FWIW, my fiber connection goes direct to the local equivalent of the central office. The "CO" presumably has a much higher speed connection to the internet as a whole.The internet connection for my first ISP was a T1 line - theoretically it would only need 30 56K dial-up connections to saturate that T1 connecting the ISP to the internet backbone.


Re: Teaser text error

Gigabit was first available two years ago in my city of 50,000 in a county of >3,000,000 and that was for a small portion of the city. The rollout is still in progress. OTOH, most of the city has had 200+Mbps cable modem service for several years now, though uplink speeds were 10Mbps for cable versus 940Mbps for Gigabit fiber.


Re: I'll wait for it

I had an interesting chat with a fellow who works for a telecon company in eastern Montana. He said that they could run fiber up to 40 miles from the equivalent of a central office. This beats the hell out of DSL which is limited to about 5km (line length requiring loading coils). The one downside is that the customer would have to kick in the cost of placing the line, but is likely to get reimbursed if mmore customers sign up for the service provisioned by that line.

UK minister tells telcos to share telegraph poles if they can't lay cable underground


The experience in the US

The public utilities commissions in the US have generally required the original owners of the pole line share space on the poles, so it's common to see poles with power, telephone, cable and occasionally fiber optics. There are long standing regulations about how the tenant users of the pole line compensate the original owner along with rules on where the tenant lines need to be placed. One reason the PC's have an authority to do so, is that pole lines are usually on easements on property owned by others (e.g. homeowners). Most fiber optic installations in the US are going to areas where the utilities are underground, so many companies are using micro-trenching to cut a trench about 10cm wide and 30cm deep in the road, which is usually asphalt, to place the conduits to the fiber. This does involve another small box in the utility box clusters associated with underground utilities.

Historically, underground power lines were 3 to 5 times more expensive than overhead power lines, but experience fewer service disruptions than overhead. Fixing an underground line is quite a bit more involved than an overhead line.

Trying out Microsoft's pre-release OS/2 2.0


Re: Versions of MS-DOS did support more than 32MB partitions

And to top it off, MS updates of Windows included code that prevented Windows from running on top of DR-DOS. FWIW, I had experience with DR-DOS at work and was impressed - also impressed at how the arrogant DR of CP/M days morphed into a more costumer friendly company, while MS outshone DR on how to be arrogant bastards (no relation to the Stone Brewery product).

Another memory from the mid-90's was chatting with our company marketing officer and his comment that just about everybody who did business with MS felt like they got shafted. Sublogic and Lattice are a couple of examples from the 1980's.


Re: Very Different

One of the ironies of the 80286 based OS/2 v1.x was that it was a very good platform for software development. The descriptor table entries for a segment included allocated memory size and the processor would throw a fault if a read or write was attempted outside the allocated memory. I seem to remember reading that a number of MS developers were using OS/2 for the initial stages of Windows software because of that. In some ways it was kind of a shame that the 80386 version of OS/2 went to a flat memory module as the 80286 way of doing things was potentially more secure - remember that 80386 segments had 32 bits of addressing space.

One other what-if was BeOS - with reports that it was much better handling multimedia than the contemporary versions of Windows while running on the same hardware. Apparently several PC makers wanted to provide BeOS as an optional OS, but MS had made it very difficult for manufacturers to load anything but Windows on the machines being sold.

Don't get me started on the "Internet Explorer" trademark.


Versions of MS-DOS did support more than 32MB partitions

Compaq DOS 3.31 had no trouble supporting a 76MB partition. I can't help but wonder if MS took away Compaq's right to make their own version of DOS after Compaq broke the 32MB barrier before MS did. Joe Boykin of the SCP Users Group was working on supporting a 100MB hard drive on MS-DOS back in the DOS 2.0 days - don't think it required any changes in the API as the 86-DOS API used 32 bits to store the file size. OTOH, the 12 bit FAT had to be changed.

What really changed the whole PC industry was the rise of the cloned IBM BIOS, with one of the most popular written by veterans of Technical Design Labs.


Re: Very Different

Glad to see you differentiate the 8088 from the 8086, which was a 16 bit processor. From my feeble benchmark tests, code ran about 3X faster on an 8MHz 8086 than the 4.77MHz 8088. The ease of porting 8080/Z-80 CP/M programs to DOS was due to Intel making the 8086 source code compatible with the 8080 (which was an upgrade to the 8008) and Tim Paterson writing DOS to support CP/M OS calls.

Stuck paying for your apartment's crummy internet? FCC boss Rosenworcel wants to help


Re: Maybe not as easy as it seems

I'm very aware that "if" was doing some VERY heaving lifting, though I suspect many recently built apartments are set up properly.


Re: Maybe not as easy as it seems [Bulk-Billing Alternatives]

In my little section of the US, current options are: a so-so DSL connection from AT&T (formerly SBC, formerly PacBell); Cable Modem with at least 240Mbps down not sure if upload speed is greater than 10Mbps; fiber from Ting 930M down, 940M up; possibly mm-wave service from Verizon with about 300M down. Electric power and gas are from an "Investor owned utility" though the city offers to "sell power" A.K.A. the generation portion of the bill. Garbage is a commercial entity operating under a franchise, water and sewage are government districts that date back before the city was incorporated in 1986.

Needless to say, I'm using the Ting option - it boggles my mind that the data throughput is higher than the ECS transfer rate on a CDC 6000 series machine (10M 60 bit words per second). I have talked to people who have 10G or higher fiber optic connections in the area around UCSD.


Re: Maybe not as easy as it seems

If the apartment cabling was set up right, having multiple provider choices would not be that difficult. That's assuming that each apartment has its ow Ethernet (or fiber optic) cable to the appropriate utility closet. where it would a matter of moving one end of a patch cord. Chances are that for most apartments, arranging for choice in providers will be a royal PITA. I wouldn't be surprised to see the rule having opt-outs where it would be too expensive to upgrade the wiring.

I do know someone who works for a company that specializes in utility billing for apartments and condos, would be interesting to see what their take is on the matter.

Tiny Core Linux 15 stuffs modern computing in a nutshell


Re: You can never be too thin

The last version of HP-UX for the 68040 would run in 8MB, though it would probably be swapping like crazy. This included the GUI and some applications, though I think 16MB would make it considerably less painful.

While I've had a fair amount of experience running QNX v4 and v6, I don't recall trying out the demo floppy. QNX was generally easy to use and it was a bit of a hoot that Vedit was the standard editor for version 4 - having previously using it in the mid 1980's on an SCP 8086 machine.

Starting over: Rebooting the OS stack for fun and profit


Re: Hit-and-Miss [CDC Big Iron]

I know CLDR was part of SCOPE or at least CalidoSCOPE (Cal Improved Design Of SCOPE), but the KRONOS machine had been gone three months when I started the Assembly Language class. I do remember warning of making sure the "IDENT" card followed immediately after an END statement card, otherwise SCOPE would get confused. On a related note, a while back I downloaded the COMPASS code for SNOBOL. I still like the way setting registers A1 - A5 triggered a read to the corresponding X register and A6 and A7 triggered a write from the corresponding X registers, along with A0 and X0 being used for ECS reads and writes. On a 6600, the ECS could transfer a 60 bit word every 100 nsec, though my fiber internet connection does 940Mbps up and 930Mbps down.

It was impressive watching the 6400 handle dozens of TTY connections, two card readers with one being a CDC 405, four line printers and at least a couple of tape drives. The CC had an Extended Core Storage cabinet that was originally shared between the SCOPE machine and the Kronos machine. Ten years later, the CC was running networked VAX's running an updated version of the OS the CS department wrote for the PDP-11, though they had to kludge a terminal driver system that would handle the variety of terminals that had been used with the 6400 as well as an SDS machine.

I remember the CDC La Jolla facility having a CDC 3200 in 1971 (along with a bunch of CDC1700s), and the Smithsonian Museum near Dulles has a 3800. The 3000 series machines were basically the CDC 1604 implemented with silicon planar transistors as opposed to the original germanium junction transistors, though the 3200 was to the 3600 as the 6200 was to the 6600.


Re: Hit-and-Miss

Yeah, the PPU's on the CDC 6000/7000 series machines were quite a neat design. Having the control portion of the OS reside on a PPU greatly enhanced security as there was no way that user code could overwrite the OS. Another advantage of the Fortran model was the lack of a heap. I did do some assembly language programming for subroutines to be called from "RUN" Fortran, used CLDR instead of LGO as part of the job card and I still have my copy of Ralph Grisham's "Assembly Language Programming for the Control Data 6000 series" book. The CDC 6000 ISA is one of the cleanest that I've come across.

During my first quarter at the big U, the comp center had two 6400's, with one running SCOPE as modified by the CS department and the other running KRONOS. The real big users of computer power could submit jobs to the 7600 on the hill or a collection of 7600's about 45 miles away run by the only guy Seymour Cray paid attention to. Unfortunately the 6400 running Kronos was sold, but the CS department was given a PDP11 to play with. They started off running three different OS's on it, two from DEC and one from some outfit in New Jersey - after their hacking of SCOPE they decided it might be fun to try their luck with the code from NJ.

As for NVM, the one class that I got an A+ in was taught by some guy named Leon Chua...


Re: Hit-and-Miss

I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers magnetic core storage. I've even been exposed to a machine that used a drum for main memory, archive storage was either punched cards or mag tape. Not old enough to have experienced the original DRAM - which was implemented in a special CRT.

On a slightly different topic, the OS intended for the first RISC machine, the CDC-6600 was called Sipros Ascent which was supposed to make it easy to embed assembly code into Fortran (the CDC 6000 and 7000 series machines were designed for Fortan). Development was overdue and over budget, so a bootleg OS called SCOPE was used instead and became the most common. The 6000 and 7000 series did have an interesting set of memory hierarchy, starting with the 8 general purpose 60 bit registers, standard core, extended core, disk, tape/cards.

Hold up world, HP's all-in-one print subscription's about to land, and don't forget AI PCs


Re: Sweating assets

My 1973 HP45 is still working, though the batteries died decades ago. Single digit LaserJets also had the reputation of lasting forever.

I bought a HP tank printer for the wife, part of the paper feed crapped out on the original unit, being under warranty HP shipped a new printer. The wife has printed out thousands of pages, and so far I've oly spent $19 for a refill of black ink.

Drowning in code: The ever-growing problem of ever-growing codebases


Re: Remember 'The Last One'?

I remember seeing it demonstrated at a computer show/fair. Main take away was that it took a long time to generate and compile the code.

Then again, I remember attending the First West Coast Computer Faire, which was a mind blowing experience.

Trident missile test a damp squib after rocket goes 'plop,' fails to ignite


Re: What the hell?

In a typical steam locomotive boiler explosion, the boiler shell usually ends a good distance away from the engine - engine being the cylinders, rods, wheels and frame. Locomotive boiler explosions are almost always caused by low/no water on the crown sheet over the firebox.

Microsoft embraces its inner penguin as sudo sneaks into Windows 11


What's with sudo being a Linux innovation??

According to the sudo website, sudo was originally implemented on a BSD 4.1 installation in 1980. That means M$ is embracing its inner Oskie Bear (Cal mascot) or inner Daemon or maybe inner Holy Hubert.

Affordable, self-healing power grids are closer than you think


Re: Well, duh.. Time for DC?

FWIW, Anderson specifically makes plugs/sockets for DC circuits. They have on line for the ~380VDC used in modern data centers, with the plugs designed to shield the arc caused by pulling the plug out of the socket.

Back in the 1920 to 1950 time frame, there were a large number of houses in the US where the electric power was 32VDC from battery banks. The batteries where kept charged by small gasoline generators or windmill driven generators. There were a number of appliances made that would run off of 32VDC and the plugs and outlets were usually the same used for 110VAC.


Re: I beg to differ

Heavy emphasis on "some". Periods of low precipitation can last for several years, causing a shortage of water needed for hydro. An early example was California ca 1920, where a large fraction of the electricity was generated by hydro, running into problems from a dry year curtailing production. One response was building more steam plants.

Note that nuclear and geothermal can also have problems with inland generating stations running low on cooling water in a dry year.


Re: Well, duh.. Time for DC?

Residential utility providers are not necessarily opposed to loops, some AC distribution systems were literally a grid with multiple paths from the substation to the final customer. Main reason for not wanting loops is to make setting up protective relays easier (in power system lingo, the relay is what detects the fault and the circuit breaker is the switch controlled by the relay that breaks the circuit). Transmission grids have many redundant loops, but the relays have an easy time differentiating between a local fault and a non-local fault.

You are spot on about "Universal" motors. Funny thing is that it's easy to make a power supply that will be just as happy to run off of 120VDC or 240VDC as it is to run off of 120VAC or 240VAC.

Currently available SiC FET's make transforming from 2400VDC to 120/240VDC a piece of cake, with efficiency better than 98%. 7200VDC to 120/240VDC is a bit more complicated - may need to wait for SiC IGBT's.


Re: I beg to differ

The continental US (plus a good part of Canada) is composed of three grids: The eastern being everything but Texas more than 100 to 300 miles east of the Rocky Mountains, the western system being everything but Texas west of the boundary and Texas. California is part of the western grid also containing all of Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Arizona and New Mexico along with most of Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado plus British Columbia and possible parts of Alberta.

I'm dubious about the interconnected micro-grid proposal working as there isn't much being said about dealing with the vagaries of renewable power. The only two sources of high availability "zero" carbon power are nuclear and geothermal.

GPS interference now a major flight safety concern for airline industry


Re: Is it naive to suggest ...

The highest frequencies that can be refracted (not reflected) by the ionosphere is a bit north of 200MHz when there is heavy ionization in the E-layer. This known as sporadic E-skip and appears to be caused very large thunderstorms sending charge up to the ionosphere (sprites, jets, etc). The worst that happens at 1+ GHz is that the ionosphere causes the velocity of propagation to slow down a bit and shifting apparent location.

Using a directional antenna to verify that the signal supposedly coming from a particular satellite really is coming from that satellite should be able to detect spoofing and may be able to null out the interfering signal.

The Land Before Linux: Let's talk about the Unix desktops


Re: Proprietary

To make things even more interesting, Tim Paterson was planning to develop a multi-user version of 86-DOS.

The rise and fall of the standard user interface


Re: Thanks for the Microsoft Word for DOS

One neat trick for Word for DOS was putting different default stylesheets in different different directories, so one could have differing formatting for different recipients. The other nice thing was that it was very easy to attach a different stylesheet provided that one was consistent in setting up the style sheets.

The "escape" fr triggering menus was very easy to work, as it rarely required a two key (e.g. ctrl-C) combination. Certainly much faster than having to use a mouse.


Re: Motif?

Motif was an HP creation and the basis for Visual User Environment from which CDE was largely derived from. Unlike Window$, there was an effort for coherent design in the UI as described in the book about the visual design of Motif. One thing I miss is the emphasis on using as little of the display's area for the windows. As for the supposed complexity of using VUE or CDE with a three button mouse, my then 2.5 year old daughter had no problem in figuring out how to click on an icon to bring up a picture just after saying "daddy's 'puter".

The other thing I miss about VUE/CDE was that the default application for opening a file was a text editor - files with registered magic numbers or extensions would be opened up by the appropriate application.


Re: Yes, but

Supercalc? Lotus 1-2-3? Not to mention Viscalc. All pale in comparison with the mighty Multiplan!

Yes, I did have my tongue in cheek when typing the above.