* Posts by hugh wanger

37 publicly visible posts • joined 31 Mar 2009

Microsoft: The MORE Surfaces it sells, the MORE money it loses

hugh wanger

Re: That's because Microsoft isn't selling slabs.


That's because Microsoft isn't selling slabs.

They're selling a walled-garden ecosystem.

Explain Walled? (My money is on some anti MS sentiment and nonsensical tripe)

hugh wanger

Er.. actually Don Jefe its true, disties didn't have them.

All the other lines of text you typed (didn't read it all, as you waffle) is largely true. Managing the supply chain is hard, and Apple are experts at it.

I don't even know what MS's problem was, but I was given a very accurate figure from my Surface 2 order in Jan it wouldn't be in the channel till late March.

And late March it came. I had an MS suit in front of me one day, and as I moaned about not getting my shiney toy he knew exactly which disties were getting them, in what numbers and what days.

MS have had a hold up on supply, but its largely as of end of March gone. Surface 2 were harder hit, but they make up 80% of Surface sales. I love mine.

Oh no, Joe: WinPhone users already griping over 8.1 mega-update

hugh wanger

@jrb thanks for posting some factual content.

I love my Lumia 920 with 8.1 (posting from it now)

Luvin' my background, notification centre, swype style keyboard. More tiles on front screen.

The smart WiFi that auto logs you on to free WiFi (ewven those that requires form filling)

WI-FI toggle that turns off for 1 hour which is useful for me. Its a totally awesome phone OS

What do you mean there are no Surface Pros? HAND 'EM OVER, yell Microsoft resellers

hugh wanger

Re: Why would anyone want one?

If you're a kid or consumer you can have a preference. Even though i think android is very poor quality compared to iOS or Windows. Price or "hackability" might be your highest weighting so you'd choose Android. But you certainly cant claim any pecking order as fact.

At work, if you want field tools iPad wins hands down.

If you want to do Office with mouse and Keyboard Surface beats iPad easily.

I myself use a Surface RT. Its the best of both worlds. I get a great tablet. But i also get a great notebook replacement with better portability and much better battery life. Its a brilliant tablet.

i often go to meetings where the iPad crowd also take an actual notebook.

i can use the Surface all day and never take my power brick even though it would fit in my pocket. Its 10 hours+ i also like the flat folding Arc mouse. I would advise getting the type cover over the touch cover. Its barely any thicker but typing is way better.

Microsoft asks pals to help KILL UK gov's Open Document Format dream

hugh wanger

Re: An offer...

No, novell and Netscape aren't around because they're sh*t.

seriously. Lan Manager 2.2 came and we we're all like "this is much nicer than Netware, I'll take it"

And Nutscrape was bad. Id rather user Gopher :/

Snowden journo boyf grill under anti-terror law was legal, says UK court

hugh wanger

Re: information useful to Al Qaeda

"it was always about mass surveillance of the general public."

To what end?

Seriously, for what motive?

This notion that "the man" is watching your every move is so childishly naïve.

Do you really have the arrogance to believe you are that interesting?

Whilst you are picking your nose?

Frapping when the Missus goes out to Tesco?

Shouting at the ref on TV when football is on?

Humans are mostly boring. Doing the same thing, as we've always done.

Same holes, same goals.

What is this mass surveillance and why does it alarm you so?

Have you see evidence that David Miranda was "conditioned" and forced to not vote UKIP?

60-70 million people, watched over by a relatively small number of people.

Working really hard to stop anyone from religious loons, people with a cause, and just general mentalists hurting innocent people. A hard, boring job that means you are safe to sit their behind your keyboard and type in your foolishness.

You only have to watch Road Wars on TV to realise what a feral bunch of crazy maniacs exist in the world. Or watch the ID channel on murder documentaries and watch what other humans do to each other. _That_ is what those forces are trying to help protect against. And terrorists do operate a certain way, and if Snowden and Greenwald ( a massive self publicist) have made their jobs harder then they deserve all the strife they are likely to get. We all know governments hold data on us all. I don't care. Its not important. Its what they do with the collective knowledge that counts, and so far there is no evidence they are using it control our minds (its not 1984).

hugh wanger

Re: @That terrorist "Ian Michael Gumby"

Its not abuse, as the judges found it was completely proportionate.

Read a lengthy Parliament document on this issue, which is well balanced:


Guy was carrying documents, of which none of us know the contents.

That's the trouble with coming to conclusions in the comments section, we aren't in possession of the facts. And these issues are overseen. Section 7 is clearly not used too frequently according to this paper above.

People are getting hung up on the word "terrorism" and that he didn't have bombs strapped to him.

But that's like arguing semantics. Take the word Terrorism out of it and call him:

"bloke who has stolen information, from a Government agency"

If he had been detained under general criminal law then we would all have probably said "fair enough".

So should people get all het up in here about poor David? No. He got himself mixed up with Greenwald, and his "activity".

Should they change the words used to detain people. Yes. Lets change the law to, "Terrorists and anyone else who commits crimes against the UK which includes espionage and stolen intelligence documents and basically anything else which by any objectiveness is just plain wrong/illegal"

Then we should be all fine :)

ps. The really funny things is, many of the "panties in a bunch" types on here moaning about privacy will mostly have Android phones sending their every click up to the GooglePlex. I love studying you odd human animals. Amusing.

Microsoft seeks patent for blade server chassis

hugh wanger

Another MS bashing article, how juvenile. El Reg= the new Slashdot?

No OEM was hurt by Surface. All outlets delight in publishing bad Surface sales news. What a sad world we live in where we concentrate on the company not the wonderful gadgets filling our lives.

HP sticks thumb in Microsoft's eye, extends Windows 7 option for new machines

hugh wanger

Most companies i know are still ridding themselves of xp by rolling out windows 7.

Hardly going to switch to Win8 but don't let that stop the kids declaring epic fail.

as above.

Windows Phone app developers: These games are made for you

hugh wanger

My Windows Phone is stuffed full of Apps. Apart from Sky Go (which will come in 2014) can't think of any of the proper and needed applications that are missing.

Most IT departments I know of are considering alternatives to Blackberry.

All of them looking at iPhone or Windows Phone. Android is too insecure and too fragmented for Enterprise IT with no consistent MDM APIs.

Its "trendy" to diss MS. But I'd have a Windows Phone over a pikey Android device any day.

How did hybrid flashy bods Nimble Storage's IPO go so smoothly?

hugh wanger

Re: Cheap = Business differentiation?

From what I gather (and party seen)

- Simple installation (way simpler than a NetApp install)

- Simpler management, sparsity could also be viewed as simplicity?

- Faster by 3 to 4 times for a similar spend on NetApp or EMC supposedly

- Better compression (NetApps de-dupe is poor compared to Data Domain for e.g.)

- Realtime performance monitoring versus once a week like NetApp

- Much smaller actual footprint

- Much more TB for your money, which believe it not, does really count for something :)

Equallogic was OK, apart from snapshots and replication. Those 16Mb block/pages or whatever causes huge snapshots. I dumped a ton of them. (Plus Dell not knowing how to support them in my case)

NetApp, decent, but irritating to deal with commercially.

So if Nimble can not irritate you on commercials (year 4 arm twist!), provide a faster box, a cheaper box, more storage, simpler to deploy, simpler to manager. Would that differentiated them enough?!!

Microsoft store staff to hold all night vigil for Surface 2

hugh wanger

I see the MS hating is still a fashionable sport for the kids.

Isn't their a Word Macro issue or Unix shell script you should be fixing?

I really like my Surface RT. Waaayyy more than my old iPad.

Agree with MJA, Pitbull is a poor choice. One Direction or Beiber would have been much more compelling for those who still get excited by a tablet.

Microsoft partners seriously underwhelmed by Windows 8.1

hugh wanger

Re: The problem...

Your post is typical. Its sad to see El Reg comments descend to Slashdot and Engadget levels of immaturity.

Worsened by the fact you got 25 of your little pals to uptick you.

Why would MS sack Ballmer? MS have just had one of their most profitable quarters.

BYOD is severely overhyped, in a way for the channel to flog many people VDi licenses who don't need it.

One of the largest companies in the UK who sell gas just realised this and shelved BYOD as their primary play.

365 versus on premise? Sure, pay once own forever. But you will keep paying over and over again or your storage, your support people, your upgrades. You clearly aren't anything more than probably a desktop analyst who knows diddly squat about how the world actually works.

Anyway, run along home. Hack another ROM onto you Android phone, get cracking with todays Steam deal and leave the IT analysis to the grow ups.

Microsoft Surface Pro sales CANNIBALIZING Surface RT

hugh wanger

Re: Surface Pro sales CANNIBALIZING Surface RT

very rarely does a post hit the nail on the head, this one does. Spot on.

Microsoft internally clearly have big differences of opinion, WinDiv v Devdiv etc.

And I also think you are correct, insurance for Intel failing. Intel have 2 more changes in smaller silicon coming and if battery improves with it and they can match arm - game over. Business will stick with it.

There is no need for religeon on this either, if people want cheap consumer Android tablets thats great. Pricier stuff for work / Office etc can co-exist without internet trolls killing each other :)

N00bs vs Windows 8: We lock six people in a room with new OS

hugh wanger

@Chris Miller There is "training" or a brief guide when you first start Windows 8. This is what is most galling about all the "opinions" on this matter - mostly coming from people who have strong views but never actually tried retail/release Windows 8.

Basically, use Windows 8 as an IQ testing tool. If you fail to be able to use it after a minute of using it (like an 8 year old girl) you didn't pass the test and should retire from office life.

It is literally childs play.

[As others have pointed out, Windows key and scroll wheel mouse (or touch screen) on actual hardware would have made most of this "research" moot. Nonsense article. El Reg needs to do better than this drivel that belongs in the like of Computer Shopper Magazine]

Salesforce CEO Benioff: Win 8 is 'the end of Windows'

hugh wanger
Black Helicopters

Re: I'll argue the difficult

Way-to-go Cheesey, someone who gets it:

"Enter Windows 8 (not RT) and here comes apps for programming, engineering, games, etc... Windows 8 allows you to dump your iPad and your laptop and have a single device. The fact is, I have even using it for a year and love being able to either use a tablet or use it as a PC."

That's exactly what I hope to be doing. Handing back my iPad and Dell plastic fantastic and using a Surface.

hugh wanger

Re: For someone who lives in a big city

A reasonable post. The Salesforce twerp summarily dismisses legacy applications, the OEM arrangement of which you speak. Price (As you say Apple is at a premium, ie twice the price for the same thing).

Google have faffed with Chromebook, but then that just could be symptomatic of the fact that it isn't as easy to do (build an OS) as even the bearded+sandled Linux lobby would have you think.

To suggest Windows is dead is stupid at best. Although I have had dinner with another CEO of one of the largest IT security companies in the world who said the same thing. I explained to some CIOs at the same dinner that a Windows 8 tablet is like their iPad, except you could do work on one - and they all said that's what they wanted. Its a mixed up crazy world :)

Microsoft Surface: Designed to win, priced to fail

hugh wanger

Re: Exactly

Piro, surface does change this.

Use of full MS Office.

Use of Mouse.

Multiple identities (one of the big downers of iPad)

Its not about the hardware (you do realise Macs are just Intel PCs right? And RT, Android and iPad are ARM SOCs?)

Its the software. Android does not have the legacy Windows Line of Business Apps. Apple can't do real content creation.

As an example, I am sat right now with 100 feet of over 300 iPads. Not 1, 1 is being used as the primary work machine. They are taking to meeting email/document readers / nice gadget to show off at home.

hugh wanger

Basically, if you cannot be put in front of Windows 8 (without training) and just figure it out - you basically don't meet a basic set of computer literacy and IQ that I would consider neccessary to work in a modern company/ white collar environment. My kids figured it out on their grandads computer running the consumer preview.

Most of the people pouring hate on Windows in here are generally haters (Linux nerds, Mac lovers or even Windows users who haven't "lived" with Win8 beyond poking a VM or the RC).

It's all a nonsense non story. Windows 8 will sell hundreds of millions of copies as per Windows 7. We will move on and no one will care about this debate in 6 months. Windows 8 is fine.

Man the floodgates! David Cameron takes to Twitter

hugh wanger

>I'm going to adopt a neutral stance and say I distrust all politicians and their parties. I'm suspicious of anyone who wants to be 'in power'.

To be fair anonymous, the majority of politicians really do want to make a difference and do the right thing. There is much more money to be had by these upper class types in private companies, than in public office. The fact they chose to do what they do (given the PITA the job is, and the unsociable hours) the majority must be well intentioned. Of course, it will always descend into a war of words, as they are influencing public opinion. A public who generally don't have a clue how the world works.

(I work in a office, and a bloke sat across the way thought our debt problems were over - not that our debt is increasing by billions month on month!)

Just ask some questions of people around you. What is our GDP, what % do we spend on Welfare etc.

Most people don't know. Governments are terrible at articulating this stuff. Its no wonder people don't make informed decisions. Its just personalities. I hate David. I love Boris. Its kindergarten voting.

If a white collar, company car driver from middle England can't get his noggin' round this stuff - its an uphill struggle for the rest eh!

hugh wanger

@Man Mountain.

I love how your sensible view is down voted by the lefties. Who will disagree with anything if it doesn't fit their position. Someone once said, never argue with a socialist nor someone of religion as "they have belief on their side". The facts, or balanced opinion will evade them.

Would people rather have a system without rules/boundaries/checking/verifying?

Perhaps rather than someone with a reasonable upbringing should be replaced by Bob Crowe or some other Millwall supporter ;) Honestly, its not like the Ed's aren't silver spoon merchants either.

Hiding to nothing on twitter though, you're just gonna attract the great unwashed - even happens on El Rego comments ;)

hugh wanger

Re: Stick his tweets up his butt.

How can you put a % against something which you are being blagged on?

I know someone who has been "getting away with it" for 15+ years. He probably counts as one of your genuines :)

Trousers the disability payments, yet still manages to "stagger" to the bookies, Asda, drive a car etc.

If you think that there isn't a really high % of people taking the proverbial, you're very naïve.

Couple that with GPs who will sign people off of work for 2 weeks because they are "stressed".

(What, you mean you have kids, job, irritating boss and a sniffle? Here have 2 weeks off poor thing)

No wonder the country is not in great economic shape compared to our friends eastward who put in a shift and the older generation who just got on with it. Different times, every "deserves it". LOL

Paul Allen: Windows 8 'promising' yet 'puzzling'

hugh wanger

Re: Having read comments on El Reg for the past couple of months...

LOL H4rm0ny, great post. The whiney vocal minority.

You should see Windows Phone 8 threads on websites, and how much hate is poured on that by Angry Android fans (even though IMHO WP is smooth as butter like iPhone - and far superior to Droidphones)

Angry techies. We shouldn't be surprised there are a ton of 'em on el reg comments :)

hugh wanger

Re: Based on....

Desktop is dead (bar us hard core gaming addicts ;))

Personal computing will be just that, personal. The days of big black boxes under the desk are slowly disappearing my friend.

Intel have just invested squillions in touch screen tech firms. Touch is the next phase of computing.

It will then be augmented computing (Google Glasses and Valves version, I forget the name)

Then eventually natural language input <- years away. Go Google the ex Microsoft bloke who was working at Microsoft then left to join Valve to work on glasses, as natural language wouldn't happen in his lifetime he said.

So to recap for you:

now -> touch -> glasses -> natural language


hugh wanger

Re: Its a new paradigm

That's all predicated on the fact you think you're right Trevor.

How about consumer don't care as much as you do about the OS.

How about I know plain ol' consumers who like Windows 8!

People will mostly get this as consumers via an OEM license. And business will agonise over the UI training, but do it for support purposes.

If it were really "that bad", people can go get Linux, or OSX on Apples "double-the-price" hardware.

Its all about choice. Truth is, Windows is priced correctly, and not all that bad. Despite whether you like the new UI or not.

There are plenty of ranty poorly formed opinions in Windows 8 all over the Internet. There is no MS conspiracy. No more than Apple only giving out iPhone 5s prior to release to sycophantic reviewers like Walt Mossberg.

My scorn mostly comes from people talking balls about how it works, and them clearly not having used Windows 8. I've heard people say "why not just have an alphabetical list of apps", when in fact, it does!

The only valid thing I've seen people say is they don't like how it looks. If its just that, a subjective appearance thing - that valid. I don't the colour of the office walls. But the functional stuff, people do talk utter dribble about. Its no more difficult to use, its not slower to use, its not harder to use. It just takes a little bit of "adjustment" as Paul Allen has found. Takes a few days. But that will benefit ass touch computing takes a firm hold (and it will).

Anyway, like you - all the whining isn't going to change a thing, Metro is staying for the foreseeable.

hugh wanger

Re: Its a new paradigm

Because Metro is the start menu.

The salient point to grasp, is that Metro is the future - Desktop=legacy. It won't happen overnight.

MS have smartly kept Desktop (had to) as its chicken and egg. Once apps from MS and ISVs get Metro versions then legacy can fade out.

hugh wanger

Re: Yawn

All businesses are in the business of making money, hence the word er... business.

But childish Microsoft bashing is so 1980s.

There has never been an ROI for Windows, or any other OS.

hugh wanger


Most people don't use more than handful of apps regularly.

Only angry techies have their panties up in a bunch over Metro.

Put your most used in the tiles, or live data tiles you want to get reminders of.

I'm not a fanboy, it works, I am just as productive as I am on Win7.

It will make more sense as we get Win tablets or touchscreen notebooks - which over the next couple of years will come as standard. All the current hysteria will die down, and we will wonder what the fuss was all about (just like we did when there were people getting all exercised when the Start Orb was added :) )

RIP Psion PLC: You're with Motorola now

hugh wanger

Netbook keyboard, please license it!

Pls pls Motorola let other people devices with that Netbook form factor, including that fantastic keyboard.

Even today, no other device of that size has had a keyboard so luxurious.


Who's afraid of Windows 8? Trio leads Microsoft migration pack

hugh wanger

>Windows 8 isn't ideal for many big businesses and government users.

Nice opening gambit. Completely false and shows bias.

I was at a seminar this week. Bloke asks the gathered delegates, hands up if you like Metro.

One half of the audience raises hands.

Later in the day, 2 MS blokes takes the audience through the very basics of logging into a Win8 PC.

The same people who didn't "like" Metro, "ooooh"ed and "ahhhhH"ed with delight as the MS guys pushed the noses of his kids in a photo to log in. (Picture password)

Underpinning my observation about Win8. Most haters have never used it, or not used it as their main machine for more than a poke of the preview. Its said, that 4 days is the time it takes to adjust from old world to Win 8.

I suspect in a years time, this won't be a debate, nor will people whine about the UI. Loads of really nice Metro apps will be out - and we will have moved on. With MS shifting about 100 million licences in the process.

I've been in the IT industry long enough to witness this same reticence and whining when XP and start orb came into being. Win8 has got some really nice elegant features. Its not perfect, but its more perfect than a) what Windows went before, and b) any other OS on the tablet/PC market. Simplez.

Ballmer predicts 400 MILLION Win 8 Surface and Lumia fumblers

hugh wanger

Re: MS need to shed Ballmer


Oh dear. Another clueless Ballmer hater. Why do you hate him?

How do _you_ know what kind of job he is doing?

Is he a good people person? Good at keeping their OpEx down?

You haven't got a scooby doo whether he is good or not.

Microsofts numbers have been fantastic of late. They have for the first time in a very long time got a very decent and clearly matching and consistent looking portfoilio from Xbox, Phone and PC.

You can't see MS catching up on Apps, when many AAA Apps are available and WP8 will have a similar dev platform to W8RT making ports simple. (Even the Unreal Engine will run on the phone, and ports of Games using it fairly trivial to move over)

But like any typical Ballmer hater, you just don't like the big man based on his personality.

Unlike many CEOs, he's a really interesting character. The IT world would be very boring with chair throwing Monkey boy. He seems deeply passionate about Microsoft from what I can see, so good luck to him.

I want MS to be successful, as successful companies make great products for *US* the consumer.

The surface is not being made for business success on its own, but rather showing OEMs what is possible if they apply themselves. Tablets currently are CONSUMPTION devices, the surface, RT and W8 on tablet will mean we can consume AND WORK/CREATE! I know many people who want to get one, myself included. I can throw out my iPad - which I barely use (once the initial gadget lust wore off).

Childish MS hating in comments, never stops does it. Kids, should allow em on the Internet. ;)

The world's first Windows Phone 8 hands on – what's it like?

hugh wanger

Re: Downvotards amaze me

@Charles Manning

Anyone who likes a Microsoft product or service is "a shill".

Will you ever grow up? Do you still type M$?

I know comments areas are like this, especially Engadget or Games Forums - but shouldn't we be more grown up on The Register?

I for one was on Google Apps (paid for BTW) before looking into Googles practices for a client, and Google worry me with what they do with data/privacy, and as Hotmail is now pretty good - I switched back to Hotmail.

I love my 2 Windows phones I've had. (I've had iPhone, Android handsets, and still have a BB)

I also really like the Windows 8 OS I'm using right now. And have moved off of my MacBook by putting my data on Skydrive and like Skydrives simple photo sharing for my family. So I am more and more an MS product and service user as they are really nice to use nothing more. Please don't call me a shill as I happen to like their stuff.

Microsoft claims Windows Server 2012 is 'first cloud OS'

hugh wanger

RICHTO, console yourself in the fact that Unix is dieing. x86 + Windows will kill it as long as Moores Law continues.

Windows Server is actually pretty solid these days, and cheap as chips compared to AIX kit and anything from Oracle costs a kings ransome.

Non argument. From The Register today:

"Unix systems based on RISC or Itanium processors accounted for $2.15bn in revenues in the second quarter, down 17.9 per cent."

Dodo :)

x86 was over 9billion by comparison. Big Iron is a minority sport, which will become less and less used as Windows + x86 will be enough for most workloads.

'Google's crap for business' - CIOs give ad giant dose of reality

hugh wanger

Re: Apples and oranges?

Anonymous Coward, you have now met one - me!

I can tell you that 365 is a better business proposition than Gmail.

Direct contract, direct support. Better co-existence whilst migrating away from in-house Exchange (which is where most companies will be coming from)

Better privacy

Better Office document compatability.

I don't dislike Google, but they rule themselves out as they just aren't ready for mid to large companies.

Office 365 is actually very good. But your anti MS blinkers might prevent you from giving it a good go ;-)

Internet Explorer needs fresh dev infusion for a full recovery

hugh wanger

Only children, and angry techies use add-ons. Soccer mom doesn't.

I actually switched back to IE recently, never thought I'd say it. Chrome was doing it for me.

But IE and now this v10 on Windows 8 does enough, stable enough and QUICK ENOUGH now - that installing an alternate browser just isn't necessary.

Bear in mind I am using a ton of apps, and doing all the techie things techies do - and I'm doing my job just fine without a single add-in. Amazing but true :) But yeah, just like Linux zealots with their hair on fire, its cool to bash MS (or it used to be in the 90s. I thought we'd grow up since then? Maybe not) MS have had a good renaissance recently. Long may it continue. I also hope all of them do well, RIM, Google, Apple etc - as this competition is ultimately good for us the consumer.

Microsoft awards itself Google-esque power over Hotmail, SkyDrive etc

hugh wanger

Re: Compare to Google ?


I'll compare for you.

Google will retain private data about you in the Googleplex. Social security number, phone numbers, addresses, friends, all your online shopping orders - could be anything, and is usually _everything_

You can test this for yourself by signing up to services. Deleting your account and looking at destinations on Google maps to be amazed that Google still knows all about you :)

Google could get a lot more goodwill on the privacy front by allowing you to remove your data. The trouble is, internally they splatter your data around between services so liberally that its a practical issue - if not an ethical one.

On paid services, MS do not scan all your email. On Office 365 for example they don't scan your messages.

Gmail DOES still scan messages (or at least partial parts of messages - try getting a honest answer out of Google - I want to see how you get on with that )

Suggesting that MS behave as Google do is laughable. MS are in the Forbes top 20 for ethical companies.

Google will never be there :)

Google worry the bejasus out of me. I'll take MS over Google any time in that regard.

Why Dell's PS6000 isn't quite enterprise class

hugh wanger

@Gary A

Gary, Geoff did not advocate EQL, he said you shouldn't constrain your product choice based on protocol.He also explained the practical EQL limitations (100TB and >FC1) He is correct, and you're not reading his remarks correctly. We've got FC NetApp and iSCSI EQL, and our EQL arrays are faster by a fair margin. But to be honest, neither are taxed too heavily in terms of IOPS, only constant load.

I too am amazed out how ludicrous this article is. Suggesting iSCSI isn't enterprise ready is like how people used to say "TCP won't scale". All very naive. We got off the FC path a while ago and stopped buying, as its just plain obvious that iSCSI is the way to go. Voice, Virtual Servers, and Storage are all layers of the same onion, you'd have to have a very unique reason for building an entire FC SAN, and have deep pockets to buy and maintain it. I'm glad I'm not going cap in hand to EMC or NetApp for FC kit anymore.