Posts by johnny-mnemonic

GCC 15 to keep Itanium support for now, after all

Re: Linux/ia64 is maintained out-of-tree since November 2023

@Liam Proven:

What I can read on http://epic-linux.org/ are statements that point out a fact, i.e. that someone's wrong. Since when does that equal to personal attacks. Well, it's a public community website from the Linux/ia64 community for the Linux/ia64 community and everybody else interested, so everybody can convince themselves about the quality of the statements there. And there is now even a copy of it in the Internet Archive since the afternoon. So those statements are frozen in time now for the forseeable future. Thanks to whoever did that. Good websites should absolutely be in the Internet Archive.

I think we can leave it at that now. And sorry for my ignorance regarding the procedures at the Register. I now know how things work when errors are made again and you got the whole picture about Linux/ia64 now.

I consider that a productive outcome for everybody involved.

Cheers.

P.S.

Coincidentally I am working on getting more use out of ski since a while and consider it quite useful in the meantime - i.e. compared to nothing at all for ia64 emulation. ;-) I am not aware that it is only a partial CPU emulation, I think they even integrated the IA-32 emulation in it (or at least a "subset" of it, see page 66 of [1]), but I haven't studied it in all detail. So expect more guidance on using it in the future.

[1]: https://github.com/trofi/ski/blob/master/doc/manual/SkiManualMasterDoc.pdf

Linux/ia64 is maintained out-of-tree since November 2023

> Also, this is just the GNU C compiler. It doesn't mean that you can build new versions of the Linux kernel. Kernel 6.7 dropped Itanium support and it still doesn't look like it's coming back.

Yeah, well, in reality we, that maintain Linux/ia64, didn't miss a single mainline release or release candidate. **Everything** since and including v6.7-rc1 runs on our machines (details below).

If you don't want to rely on hearsay, myths or outdated information about Linux/ia64, head over to http://epic-linux.org/ and get the relevant information.

****

Out-of-tree support for Linux/ia64 is there and maintained (Tomas' fork was created beginning of November 2023 already, see "created_at" in [1]), as well as for the glibc. Just check the repos at:

https://github.com/linux-ia64/

For per Linux mainline (release) candidate source code you can refer to:

https://github.com/johnny-mnemonic/linux-ia64

[1]: https://api.github.com/repos/linux-ia64/linux-ia64

In addition: Linux mainline release (candidate) kernels are regularly tested on actual hardware (rx4640, rx2620, rx2660, rx6600 and rx2800 i2) and in ski under x86_64. Also all currently active stable kernels are build-tested and run in ski on x86_64, too. For the latter you can check for example the results on [2].

[2]: https://github.com/linux-ia64/linux-stable-rc/actions

HTH

P.S.

Seeing that other comments seem to get through moderation quickly (even on Sunday) I send this again in the hopes that this gets published now. My first comment identical up to the P.S. section seems to be in limbo since 21 hours for an unknown reason.

Gentoo Linux to drop Itanium support as Funtoo fork enters 'Hobby Mode'

The absolute final nail in the coffin of Linux/ia64 - or is it? Yeah, maybe not...

@Liam Proven

"The Linux kernel nearly removed Itanic support in February 2023, and finally did so in kernel 6.7 last October. <b>As we predicted the following month, nobody has stepped up to maintain out-of-tree support.</b>"

So nobody has stepped up to maintain out-of-tree support? Please do your research better: https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2024/04/12/gcc_15_sinks_itanic/#c_4847166 gives you all the information you need to get this part right.

Out-of-tree support for Linux/ia64 is there and maintained (Tomas' fork was created beginning of November 2023 already, see "created_at" in [1]), as well as for the glibc. Just check the repos at:

https://github.com/linux-ia64/

For per Linux mainline (release) candidate source code you can refer to:

https://github.com/johnny-mnemonic/linux-ia64

[1]: https://api.github.com/repos/linux-ia64/linux-ia64

And again: Linux mainline and stable (release) candidate kernels are regularly tested on actual hardware (rx4640, rx2620, rx2660, rx6600 and rx2800 i2) and in ski under x86_64. For the latter you can check for example the results on [2].

[2]: https://github.com/linux-ia64/linux-stable-rc/actions

Gentoo drops ia64 because...

"It had little choice in this. Like any other distro, Gentoo relies on upstream support for a platform in order to keep it working."

That's interesting, because there are still at least two Linux distributions I know of that support ia64 with out-of-tree patches: T2/SDE ([1]) and EPIC Slack ([2]).

[1]: https://t2sde.org/

[2]: http://epic-slack.org/

Of course one can argue that technically we that maintain the out-of-tree support for Linux/ia64 since late last year are upstream now. But even then, why does Gentoo not use our patches if we are technically upstream?

Well, I think the main reasons here were (1) that their development box (a rx3600 IIRC) "died" (see [3]) or became too unstable for continued use (see [4]) and (2) that nobody there was really interested in the architecture (see [4], [5] and [6]). It's really sad that nobody was able to fix their machine or maybe even tried - or even knew about these problems. Debian dropping support for ia64 should have freed their build and development box(es). So hardware could have been available, but maybe just not at the right place or continent.

[3]: https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/[e-mail]/T/#m07b76ff4bc5fbe352563d7bc43eaf05acd530eab

[4]: https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/46472341.fMDQidcC6G@pinacolada/

[5]: https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/[e-mail]/

[6]: https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/[e-mail]/

GCC 15 dropping IA64 support is final nail in the coffin for Itanium architecture

GCC 15, not GCC 14

Regarding:

> Support for the ia64*-*- target ports which have been unmaintained for quite a while has been declared obsolete in GCC 14. The next release of GCC will have their sources permanently removed.

This comes from - most likely - the future change log for GCC 14 (https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-14/changes.html). Speaking in there of "The next release of GCC" when just mentioning GCC 14 in the sentence prior then of-course means GCC 15, not GCC 14. I think this is straight-forward to understand. And if in doubt this could have been easily confirmed by talking to the GCC release manager, like I did.

So yeah, ia64 was marked obsolete during the development cycle of GCC 14, but it's not gonna be dropped with the release of GCC 14.

And for the future of ia64 support in the GCC please refer to this thread here: https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2024-March/243432.html

Re: Guess Whom The “Howls Of Dismay” Were Coming From ...

I'd recommend to do better research or not rely on hearsay, before accusing someone of not putting his money where his mouth is.

Because we are happily keeping Linux/ia64 alive - actually over two mainline releases already. You can get the picture from [1] and [2]. And so far we solved every issue on the way and more: For example we brought back HP Sim platform support - up to mainline that is. You can reassure yourself by checking for example [3] that **all** Linux stable release (candidate) kernels are working happily inside Ski running on x86_64. We are also regularly testing mainline release (candidate) kernels built with the latest GCC snapshots w/LRA enabled on actual hardware (rx4640, rx2620, rx2660, rx6600, rx2800 i2).

[1]: https://lore.kernel.org/all/[e-mail]/

[2]: https://lore.kernel.org/all/[e-mail]/

[3]: https://github.com/johnny-mnemonic/linux-stable-rc/actions/runs/8747837492

We put our money where our mouth is and welcome everybody doing the same. Cheers.