Reply to post: Re: You have it backwards.

Re: You have it backwards.

Cmon you claim its democratic so you voted for these presidents didnt you? They are presidents of the EU which is above our government and you claim democratic so who did you vote for of these presidents?

It's democratic due to the number of people voting having an effect on the people being elected.

Votes are proportionate, See here for a worked example https://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/european-elections/european_elections/the_voting_system.HTML

Conversely the number of people who's vote make little difference to the person being elected here, and the flagrant manipulation of electoral boundaries make the difference.

So you dont need to know who is in charge of the EU hence laws and regulations affecting this country? I live in England, so the laws affecting this country are drafted in Westminster. See upthread for the example of CEB2003/EC2000/12.

There is a fundamental misapprehension of how the EU works. The commission (people nominated by EU member states) propose legislation, the EU Parliament (directly elected by voters using PR) debates ammendments etc, then once they agree the council (The leaders of countries) ratify - that's two places where we can change, or veto it. https://europa.eu/european-union/eu-law/decision-making/procedures_en Educate yourself mate, it's tiresome spoonfeeding you.

I aint asking for the jobsworths just the presidents (because the EU has a few for some reason).

The current trio is made up of the presidencies of the Germany, Portugal and Slovenia.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/presidency-council-eu/

"Protectionism is rather the point, we'll be on the outside of a protectionist system"

Ok, so that works for you but what about the customers (aka everyone in the country) who are affected by lower quality and higher prices because of protectionism?

You seem to miss the point, it's a protectionist system, so we're collectively (aka everyone in the country) worse off outside of it.

Why must everyone pay for you to cash in (assuming you benefit from it)?

I ran a tiny business paying UK tax while selling to people paying in Euro, how is that cashing in?

Okay, I'm an evil capitalist grinding the faces of the poor or some shite like that?

"You don't seem to recognise, that enormous numbers of business that employ UK people, pay UK tax, are simply going to go to the wall. I declare a personal interest, including mine."

Ok. So at what point do we care about the people in the country then?

Do I not count as one of the people in the country?, how does putting people in the country out of work, help the people in the country? It's mental. Being outside the tent pissing in is worse than being inside the tent pissing out.

We must suffer the costs of protectionism because the protectionism has created these protectionist jobs? Your trying to sell me a cost as a benefit. No, it's not a cost or a benefit. It's a fact that our economy had a foundation stone, and without that foundation, lots of businesses will topple.

You keep suggesting that being outside is someway to our advantage, but no evidence, no links to support your view, it's "cheap shoes for peasants" rhetoric.

Either we maintain the same quality of food, so it costs us more, and our food production industry goes to the wall. Or we lower the qalitity of food so our food production industry goes to the wall.

Joy, looks like a win/win.

"Telling you our political class is shit, is not the same as saying all political actors are shit."

Ok. But the EU gov is shit. They cant even sit in one place, instead have to move to appease a member with pork. And you care because ? They are shit because they move around. Mate you're past the bottom of the barrel and excavating the damp earth beneath.

"Try to accept a level of nuance"

Ok. Blair sold the country to the EU because he wanted a job with the EU.

Thatcher took us into the then EEC, in 1973, Blair was elected in 1997, I understand you are wedded to this idea but that's desperate stuff.

We were saved from the appalling Euro because Brown hated Blair.

We didn't join the Euro as Brown understood the Euro is a shit currency (ineffective surplus recycling)

We have seen how good the EU is at running things, they decked economies to protect their currency. Proof, links, or more bluster?

The UK bounced out of recession while the EU trashed poorer economies in the Eurozone.

Proof, links, or more bluster?

The UK in not in the Euro and not in the EU and is in recession, funny how that works, it's almost like there are other factors at play.

"The Tories are left wing only in the imagination of the politically stunted."

I seem to have hit a left wing nerve there. I'm just offended that these people could be described as left wing, it makes it impossible to describe corbyn as left wing when you content that the tories are left wing. The nerve you hit, is my gag reflex.

With blow out spending (pre-covid) and making policies such as triple lock pensions. That of course while claiming austerity. Triple lock pension, I see, so blatant bribe to their base, while closing down social care facilities.

"A left wing approach would be UBI, free internet, feeding hungry children without being shamed by premiership footballers."

So more free stuff. Yes that would be further left. It's investment, you drive down the cost of creating businesses so people start them, they can feed their familes so will try things which enrich us as a society.

"Left wing, might involve asking why people are so desperate that they'll cross the worlds busiest shipping lane in a poundland dingy to try and seek safety (hint because we colonised their home countries so they speak English)."

I thought economic migrants trying to get here in a dingy were just running away from the French.

The desperate people are refugees, not migrants. We have a proud tradition of helping people, see the

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alf_Dubs,_Baron_Dubs shame on you for tarnishing our history with such grotesque distortions, may you never be that desperate.

That glorious place fully on board with membership of the EU. If you are a refugee, who speaks english, wtf would you want to go to a non-english speaking country?

Yet they want to come here with our opt outs and leaving the EU. Even travelling through other EU countries to get here. Again, being a speaker of English is the strongest indication of wanting to get to an English speaking country, if you are french speaker, you try to get to France.

I cannot imagine that when fleeing for your life, you choose a destination based on the number of opt outs from the EU, you live here, and have demonstrate heartstopping indifference to how the EU works, and you clearly have access to the internet. WTF do you expect some poor sod desperate for their life to have a better understanding than you do?