back to article School IT quango to be expelled

Becta, the education IT procurement quango, is to be scrapped as part of the new government's £6.2bn cuts this year, announced by George Osborne this morning. Schools are expected to get more control over their technology purchases as a result. Becta did not buy computers and software for schools, but instead drew up framework …

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  1. N2

    Good riddance

    A total waste

  2. MonkeyBot

    Good Riddance

    I work with dyslexic students and they are given laptops funded by the Disabled Students Allowance and they often cost more than if you just sent the student down to PC World.

    Without Becta, I'd estimate that there'll be about £300-£500 of funding per student that can be used for tuition and support which is far more useful.

  3. Squirrel
    Flame

    £112.5m annual budget

    to arrange vendor contracts and advise on desktop specs & software packages? GTFO. I knew quangos take the p*ss but that's just insulting.

    It should be like 3 qualified IT guys (server, network & software) in an office with a budget of £200k p.a. for the lot (pay, office rental etc.).

    1. dpg21
      Stop

      Reality check

      Do you think the Tory's would see one of their own out on their ass? Na mate, if the budget was 200K, it would be 190K for the manager (old school chum, ya?) plus 5K each for a couple of part time IT guys.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Badgers

        190k not needed

        the old school chum has already been given a job as chancellor

  4. Roger Jenkins

    Cuts

    Of course the cuts will be felt at 'the coalface' of education ie. teachers, buildings, resources etc., as they will obviously need more administrators to administer the cuts (my apologies to Yes Minister).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Did you ...

      read the article?

  5. Piro Silver badge

    So, this government might be doing the right thing after all

    Instead of tiptoeing around these organisations, they're just shitcanning them, as they should be. Fantastic.

  6. Dan 37
    Thumb Up

    Becta who?

    As a school network admin I can't say I'll miss them - never really paid much attemntion to them to be honest.

    Any idea what the government plans for the BSF programme? Would be nice to hear they've been told to piss off as well.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Title Required

      BSF is bound to be cut, sooner or later.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Efficiency

    Looking at how government departments spend I doubt that BECTA was actually saving money.

    Example of government savings - spending £4.41 to £10.55 for a pack of 12 post-it notes. Price if bought by the man in the street from a normal stationers? £1.75

    And as Squirrel says, £112m to basically write up contracts and negotiate "discounts". They haven't bought anything for the schools. If anything they lock the schools into contracts which are negotiated nationally and not for individual school's needs.

    One example of many quangos where people will lose there job and where I will cheer as it means my taxes aren't paying their wages. Yes I will be paying their dole money, but they will be able to get a job in some private company soon enough - unless they were so crap at their job that they are effectively unemployable (most likely situation).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      What cost...

      ...the risk assesment to cross the road to visit the man on the street?

      My other half is a teacher, they have quite a lot of technology in the school and not a bloody clue how to use it.

      The things a teacher could do with an interactive whiteboard to engage the children are limitless. 99% of them using it as nothing more than a traditional whiteboard. What's the point?

      More money spent on training teachers to get jiggy with the kit please

  8. Nigel Steward

    Excellent news

    So many schools are using Microsoft Office, lets hope that we will see Open Office, Firefox, Linux, Thunderbird etc..

    The schools should have a £Nil budget for Office software, Browsers, etc.. although I accept that a few devices should run on Windows, maybe not more than 25%.

    NJSS

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Someone who doesn't understand the problems

      Open Office - Don't like it myself but fair enough

      Firefox - Not really a "mature" browser in terms of 'enterprise' manageability, patching, etc.

      Linux - Has its place, like any other platform. We run a mix of that, Windows and Mac OSX depending on our needs for a particular job, and I have no plans to change that to meet the ideals of some open source zealots.

      Thunderbird - See comments on Firefox.

      The amount we pay for MS Office at my college is negligible in the great scheme of things - the cost of changing would more than offset the licence savings.

      As for a "£nil budget for office software, browsers, etc", even if the list price of something is zero, you don't seriously thing it costs nothing to install and support it?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Open Office?

      To replace MS Office, the compatibility has to be virtually seamless. Have you actually tried to use OO in a fully inter-operative way with Microsoft Office? I have. I tried really hard. I wanted it to be good. It wasn't.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Linux

        Re: Open Office?

        "To replace MS Office, the compatibility has to be virtually seamless. "

        No it doesn't.

        It's a school. Start the new first year kids on Open Office and by the time they leave school everyone will be using it.

        Kids don't like using OO? Tough Faecal Matter. Kid's don't like homework or exams or learning in general. In fact, if there is any way to make OO harder to use for children then you can be damn sure I approve.

        It's time to learn that every kid is not gifted and many of them aren't even moderately intelligent. These are people who need to be forced to use their brains more not less.

      2. Sooty

        It's a school?

        They don't need anything even remotely compatible with microsoft office!

        The first word proecessor i used at school was Folio, then some random office suite on an Acorn, something on Amiga, then Lotus Wordpro, then Microsoft Office. By that time I actually knew how to use a word processor, not just how to use Word.

        Schoolchildren should be taught principles, not specific applications! That way they can adapt to any word processor, any spreadsheet etc. Even in my final year of school though, i was forced to do some standard IT course, despite being in the final year of Information Systems. It was very much load up Word, click this menu, click this button, etc. Great for producing armies of button clickers with no knowledge of what they are actually doing or why!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Thumb Up

          Correct

          "Schoolchildren should be taught principles"

          You are absolutely correct - however, the standard curriculum doesn't PERMIT skills based IT classes

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      Title Required

      Never worked in a school have you?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Numptie

      You really don't have a clue do you

    5. Andrew Baines Silver badge
      FAIL

      What a numpty

      With IE & Office, all patches can be managed centrally using WSUS (look it up). You then get reports on any users who aren't fully up to date. With firefox, you just don't get that manageability.

      And, Yes, I am using Firefox, but wouldn't expect any of my corporate customers to do the same.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Flame

        Corporate customers?

        Don't you know they don't upgrade IE - EVER!?!? They're the feckers who are still using IE6 and stunting the implementation of teh HTML5 standards

      2. Nigel 11
        FAIL

        Ever heard of a single system image?

        We don't need WSUS or anything like it on LInux. It can run from a single system image. Linux can run either as a disk-less workstation with the one system image on a server, or with a hard disk acting as a cache of the server's master.

        Either way, update the master, and the workstations look after themselves.

        You can't do this with MS Windoze, because every instance of Windoze insists of writing to itself and making itself different to any other instance. This makes it somewhat harder to make unauthorized copies: a benefit to Microsoft, a large dis-benefit to end-users.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        WTF?

        re: What a numpty

        Of course you can update firefox across an enterprise remotely.

        Easiest on *nix (ie RHEL), but still workable on *doze.

        Jeez dude, upgrade your m4d sk1lls or something. :(

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Office....

      ....costs about £4 per license for schools. More money is spent on post-it-notes

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @ AC 14:04

        "Office ....costs about £4 per license for schools. More money is spent on post-it-notes"

        So?

        You public sector folks have a really strange way of dealing with money, i.e. it's okay to waste money as long as it's not your greatest expense.

        Snake oil salesman: Would you like to buy my magic oil?

        School: How much is it?

        Snake oil salesman: Less than you spend on post-it notes mate

        School: I'll take it!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Got any hens teeth with that?

          "£4 per license" was in response to the argument for Open Office. I think £4 per license to expose the kids to the app they are most likely to face in the real world is money well spent.

      2. Danny 14
        Thumb Down

        open source sounds great

        but in practice open source software is a nightmare. I can happily use GPO's to lock down I.E., force proxies, bolt down what you can and cant do in office, change templates, globals and mailbox locations at a whim. I can also use outlook calendars, tasks, export from our MIS straight into peoples outlook.

        I can do precisely none of this in open office, thunderbird, zimbra etc. so sure, I pay £27 per desktop to licence office, windows 7 (well it will be windows 7 this summer) and all the relevent CALs necessary. WSUS handles all of my updates, I click sync, assign updates to the groups and off they go.

        Firefox would need a new package creating, ORCA the beast, roll it out and hope it works. IEAK for IE8 was a dream to work with. Office admin kit was fantastic at creating installation template.

        The only open source I use is squid and dansguardian. The rest is good on paper but an admin nightmare. Obviously if you have more than 2 staff for 500 PCs then im sure you can work with doing things manually. I dont have that luxury.

      3. Steve Davies 2
        Flame

        £4 per licence...

        ... to the quango, but they make damn sure the school pays more than that.

        As referred to by a previous poster, the enforced purchase process and enforced suppliers (the company paying the biggest back-hander?) costs the schools thousands un-necessarily in hardware software and support costs. My daughter's school could employ a full time IT support person and give them a moderate budget for what they pay for the half-baked service they receive at present.

        Use Linux/OO/Firefox? - Yes, I am one of those zealots, but still think that school students are better off learning about Windows and Mac environments too.

        Just stop the rip-off. Good move ditching that bunch of wasters... Lets see more of this type of thing... CSA? Child Tax Credits anyone?...

  9. Rob
    Thumb Up

    About bloody time too...

    ... I've had the misfortune to work with Becta before and yes they are a complete waste of space, when I was working in FE you get used to the slackers that freeload their way to a paycheck with minimal effort but Becta seemed like a whole organisation built to do just that.

  10. JonJonJon
    Thumb Up

    I actually stood up and did a little dance ...

    Bloody marvellous! The stories I heard from my (then) missus who worked relatively high up at Becta of abuse of public funds - 1st class travel everywhere, getting into bed with MS regularly, etc, made me *spit*.

    Good riddance to the lot of them.

  11. Optymystic
    FAIL

    A Load of Tripe!

    The Article I mean, not just Becta

    1. This is last weeks news and appeared again on Saturday morning BBC radio.

    2. Becta's role was always advisory. Schools and local authorities have always been at liberty to ignore Becta guidance and Becta frameworks and by god they do, daily.

    3. Nulabour did not create Becta in 1998 it merely re-badged NCET which was the direct descendant of MESU. I'll sell you a history lesson if you like.

    It is not the demise of Becta which is going to hit schools. It is the end of the £ 200 million per annum Harnessing Technology grant worth something of the order of £ 10 k per school per annum, which is not a lot of money, but it is a very sizeable chunk of what schools have left when they have paid the rent and the pfi profits guarantee and put a few warm bodies in front of classes.

    Watch out for schools that stop paying their maintenance and support contracts, for kit and IWBs that the schools cannot afford to replace and repair. Watch the return of blackboard and chalk.

    Watch out also for those smart-arsed local authorities which have ignored the Becta advice and diverted the Harnessing Technology funds to low-cost copper connections with high revenue costs rather than investing in fibre which historically had high set up costs but is subsequently cheap to run. Their schools could find themselves paying more for less without the specific grant to do it.

    Capita share are down 2% on the Chancellor's speech. Short RM.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      @Blackboard & Chalk...

      >Watch out for schools that stop paying their maintenance and support contracts, for kit and IWBs that the schools cannot afford to replace and repair. Watch the return of blackboard and chalk.

      I pay good money to send my kids to a school that does just that. Available kit, technology and infrastructure is absolutely irrelevant to education. I'd rather have competant teachers with a knowledge and love of their subject using blackboards than any amount of kit delivering a fast-food curriculum.

      If you can point me at studies which show IWB impact positively on learning, real control studies not half-arsed 'action research' please do - but I'll take my chances with small classes using face-to-face delivery by teachers who understand and write their own syllabi - and the complete absence of 'out of the box' teaching materials and LPs. I see that working every day.

      I appreciate the problem you're highlighting though - I wonder how many teachers could actually deliver their subject well using chalk and talk these days.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Durr thick move!

    I know you lot who commented so far are hard of learning, but cum'on even you must be able to see this is one of many new epic fails that this crazy alliance is about to plonk on us tax payers.

    Whilst you can just nip up to PCWorld and buy a computer for a little less than this outfit could advise, what you hard of learning lot are missing is the future support fit for purpose work they did and all those things you lot dont seem to understand as you clearly have never worked in an organisation that gives'a.

    Now we will have the chaos again that once rushed through our schools in some of the early days of computing with schools. We also now have School IT staff doing MORE paper work and research into computers, best prices and so on. Add to this the risks increase of a school getting scammed by some 'retailer' who takes the money and never delivers due to being on the beach in Bali drinking the ill gotten gains.

    This is one of the many EPIC fails we are about to see in the coming year (before they bitch and fight and we have a new election).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      wow, arrogant much?

      "We also now have School IT staff doing MORE paper work and research into computers, best prices and so on"

      What else are they supposed to be doing?

      Do you mean IT teachers? If they don't know enough to specify the equipment they need and lack the savvy to negotiate a deal with suppliers then I'd say they are in the wrong job.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      WTF?

      hmmm

      "We also now have School IT staff doing MORE paper work and research into computers, best prices and so on."

      Or as we like to call it, "Doing our job".

      " Add to this the risks increase of a school getting scammed by some 'retailer' who takes the money and never delivers due to being on the beach in Bali drinking the ill gotten gains."

      I think the chances of my employer getting scammed like this are about on a par with your chances of posting a useful contribution to this thread.

    3. RichyS
      Thumb Down

      You don't sound very clever

      I mean, 'Durr, thick move'. Are you getting your insults from 4 year olds?

      My wife is the ICT coordinator at her school, and is very glad to see the back of BECTA. The 'advice' they give, the nonsense ICT Mark they encourage you to spend money to get, and the non-existent discounts they allege to have achieved are worthless.

      The PCs they recommend are just no good for the type of multimedia work (primary) schools do. A basic 'office' PC will not suffice. So, my wife has a schedule for machine replacement that she can budget against. Three types of PC: computer lap, classroom and staff laptops. Each PC within a type is of a standard build. They're a bargain from whichever reseller is cheapest. As for support -- with the money saved from BECTA's recommendations, she can buy 2-3 extra PCs to use as swap in replacements. More complex stuff (and any tricky server admin) is done by a small local support firm. Which benefits everyone in the community, not Dell or similar.

      Yes there's a bit of extra paperwork; but with proper planning it's only every 2-3 years (the PC 3 types are on a different replacement cycle). She isn't scammed because she knows what she's doing, and the support is from a local supplier (and her school isn't in Bali) who are unlikely to scam her because it'll hurt them in the longer term. They give a shit about her business. Would Dell/HP/whomever?

      As for open source, well they use OO on Windows. Linux (for now) is a step too far.

    4. Dan 37
      FAIL

      scissors 'n stones

      I'm clearly hard of learning but by using a few well chosen resellers that are happy to bend over backwards to ensure they continue getting a decent chunk of my budget I regularly buy kit well below retail and I have a contact list full of account managers who are keen to do all the legwork in checking out specs 'n prices to offer me the best deals. There are a couple of resellers in particular I tend to go to for large/important orders as I know their after sales service is also excellent.

      Of course, I'm sure it would be better to leave the hard of learning camp to join the hard of thinking brigade and just buy whatever becta tell me to.

    5. MonkeyBot

      Re: Durr thick move!

      "Whilst you can just nip up to PCWorld and buy a computer for a little less than this outfit could advise, what you hard of learning lot are missing is the future support fit for purpose work they did and all those things you lot dont seem to understand as you clearly have never worked in an organisation that gives'a."

      What 'future support'? The HE students I work with don't get any support from BECTA. They just get given a laptop that costs about £200 or so more than the same laptop from PC World.

      That money comes out of the same Disabled Student Allowance pool that is supposed to pay for tuition and support. The more the hardware costs, the less there is to pay for useful things.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    NEXT

    NHS supplies. All PCT's are legally required to stuff from them. They are rip off merchants of the highest degree.

    A £200PC at PC world - costs £561 via NHS supplies.

    A £75 HP printer at Pc world, costs £300 at NHS supplies.

    Hopefully someone from Govt or a journalist can do something to stop that massive black hole of NHS funding. Allow us to buy what we want from where we want.

    Anon because you know where I work.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Headmaster

      Never let facts get in the way of a good rant

      Do you mean NHS Supplychain? If you do you are talking out of your arse because PCTs are NOT "legally required to stuff from them" (I assume you mean buy stuff from them). It's a choice; Supplychain has to persuade PCTs that it's worth while to link up.

      1. Eponymous Cowherd
        Thumb Down

        And how do they "persuade"?

        ***"Supplychain has to persuade PCTs that it's worth while to link up."***

        And I can imagine the sort of "persuading" that is required to convince a PCT's chief exec to spend twice what the kit he's buying is actually worth.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Grenade

          Yep it's called arthmetic

          Do you really think that a Chief exec goes through the prices of every item in the catalogue? The deal is done or not done on overall annual savings, which are tracked, reported on and analysed to a tedious degree. You shouldn't assume that the way you do business is the way everybody else does.

          1. Eponymous Cowherd
            Thumb Down

            Silly me.

            And there I was thinking it was based on the size of the backhander.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Walk a mile in her shoes

    My missus and her sister both work in a different local schools and the distinct lack of IT knowledge from teachers up through the local IT services companies employed the local authorities, it's a pigging wonder they have any computers to use!

    It regularly takes about 2-3 weeks to have a printer moved from one room to another! A complete rebuild of a bog standard Windows desktop machine takes about 3-4 weeks to get done, and then it's installed manually by an IT tech ( I use the term very, very losely here ) bringing a CD/DVD out to the PC and building the machine on the fly, no docs, no standard build image, manually with manually entered license keys!

    Laptops usually last about week before they need rebuilding due to all the popups and nasties, despite installing ( urgh! ) Norton AV. Desktops can go almost where they like on the internet, they have basic porn blocking at county level, but that's all. My Missus has often spoken to the heads about staff using the PCs to get to secure little places like FaceBook and MySpace, in full view of the kids.

    We all work in nice little corps with bucket loads of time and money to make desktop builds rock solid, educational authorities do everything on the cheap and it shows. My missus refuses to use the school machines and bought a Macbook, the local school IT guy ( after scoffing at how poor OSX is compared to Windows ) said he didn't have a problem with it being used and simply authorised her onto the WiFI kit! She asked if they need to check or fill in forms, nope! She declined the offer in the end, just in case she passed something nasty along and got blamed!

    So before you all start coming up with your grand ideas about how you would do it, spend a month learning how it's done in your local area, you might realise that outside our nice, cosy little corp IT worlds, it's a very different story in "real" world of cheap and cheerful education system.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Pirate

      Jeez!

      I feel for them both!

      Though not all schools are destitute. One I worked at recently would spend more money on the infrastructure than those using the system at the other end. (New servers + fibre vs old damaged workstations.)

      (Imagine asking your boss what he plans to use the blade server he has 'played' with for 2 months then forgotten about about 8 months ago - and then having him tell you he's budgeting for 'another' because the other one is too old... such waste.)

      Although I don't like them, I can see that the quango was introduced to guide the schools (useful for those without a clue). My boss could talk for England about how and why he needed something, whether it got used was another thing entirely.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Paris Hilton

      your misses,

      sounds a bit loopy:

      her: School PCs SUCK, I'm buying my own

      her: Can I connect my new PC to your network? That IS why I bought it after all

      School: Yes! Go ahead.

      her: well bugger you then I'm not going to

      ?????

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Let me clear it up

        OK maybe I shortened it too much. She bought the machine to get work done, she just happened to ask if it was possible to use the network to print stuff off as it was going to be 2 weeks to get a check done to see if she could connect to the printer through a USB cable!!! When they simply said yes to transferring files over the network to the existing machines and free internet access, with no guidelines on security or internet/intranet behaviour, she thought better of the offer, just in case.

        They have guidelines in her school about ensuring where all the furniture and equipment is placed, ensure the door locks are completely child proof, even ensuring how the kitchen equipment needs top be secured away from kids. She had to spend nearly 3 months learning the building regulations and pass the CRB checks to work with the kids. However she can simply walk up to the network and download malware and viruses, send out documents about kids into the internet without anyone checking! Others borrow the laptops, take them home and allow their kids to use them, then bring them back and simply plug them back into the network, no idea if any of the docs about the kids are simply being phished out by nasty malware, copied off lost in transit, nothing!

        That was my point, everything else has established guidelines, the IT infrastructure has none.

        Clearer now?

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    shame.

    As part of the becta Home Access package we got Microsoft Office STD and Windows 7 Pro for £5 per license.

    We would not have got that otherwise without Becta.

    1. Danny 14
      Stop

      aye

      but what does the school pay in return? They are the ones who pay MS for student access at home.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        reply

        The schools pay nothing.

        These were under the home access package

        And becta enforced maximum margins etc. For example lets say our package with costs and our % comes to £380.

        the grant value is £400. We cant just charge £400 and pocket the difference as Becat required proff of costs

        To give you an idea of the good prices they can get.

        PC with full office STD 2007. 3 years AV, 3 years parental controls. £500 educational software. 1year insurance cover. 1 year support. monitor speakers etc. all for less than £400

        add 1 years internet by 3 and its £528.

  16. Nigel Callaghan
    Thumb Up

    Go on, do a proper job...

    Go on Ozzy, go for the biggie - cull Ofsted, and that's another £200+ million saved.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Privatise Becta?

    Becta's chief executive, Stephen Crowne, is quoted as saying:-

    "Becta is a very effective organisation with an international reputation, delivering valuable services to schools, colleges and children. Our procurement arrangements save the schools and colleges many times more than Becta costs to run."

    Right, so it would be a viable private sector operation, selling its services to schools and colleges. Right? I mean, as Crowne says, their "procurement arrangements save the schools and colleges many times more than Becta costs to run." That means those schools and colleges can pay the entire costs of Becta, plus a bit more (so that Becta's making a profit for its shareholders), and still be saving money. Right?

    So, let's privatise Becta, and let it sink or swim in the private sector.

    Or would Crowne suddenly find all sorts of reasons why that just wouldn't be viable?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      Risk

      Fine, allow Becta to operate as a private company. However, their success will be dependent on critical mass (to achieve economy of scale). The last government would have insisted that schools still use them - hence a hybrid private / public monopoly.

      My rail journey is privatised. I have no choice (driving is not viable), the company has a monopoly, prices go up (OK, this year, there was a marginal decrease due to RPI).

      So privatise Becta but make sure schools are free to do as they choose.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Becta missed their chance

    My experience of supplying a couple of schools is that they have the usual MS mess. They didn't seem to be aware of Becta at all and sourced PC's/laptops in the usual way.

    We've replaced some PC's which run the crucial interactive whiteboards with Ubuntu PC's and so there is a real way forward to reliable systems. The new IWB software from Promethean has been re-written from the ground up to run on Ubuntu.

    The on-site IT bod is now re-using (failed Windows) PC's as LTSP terminals. Teachers have now been getting Ubuntu PC's which match the PC's in their classrooms. Macs are going to be used in the music rooms.

    Don't forget - one huge advantage of Ubuntu is that they are all the same - and upgrading to the latest version is trivial. (A client of ours who knows nothing about PC's just upgraded his Ubuntu work PC cause he clicked on the 'upgrade' button when checking for updates).

    Also, all the educational software in the repository is free and a piece of cake to install.

    The problem with Windows is that it's fragmented. The teacher might find an application they like on their home PC or school laptop. But in the classroom it won't work because; it's Vista, XP SP2 (not 3), wrong Java, infected, wrong version of office, Win 7, or some other unfathomable reason. That's without even mentioning all the licence issues.

    On Ubuntu it's - click Software Centre - select app - click install. Do same in school.

    Becta could have put together a framework to run schools entirely on OSS - some Windows running in VM's to show children for (PC history lessons) testing etc.

    Not difficult - server running Samba, Postfix would even allow odds and sods MS laptops brought in to access files/emails.

    They could then have saved the billions sent to MS for (cheap) licenses - and this money could have been further invested into the schools systems.

    But the main advantage would have been this - we'd have had IT students coming out who knew something about IT. All we're seeing is youngsters who know how to use (MS) spreadsheets. And possibly some other things about MS networking. Considering the internet runs on Unix they are effectively useless for business.

    Me - How can I help?

    ICT student - Can I have a work placement?

    Me - Do you know anything about LInux - the vast proportion of websites and email systems run on Linux, LAMP etc Anything about PHP, Python, etc

    ICT student - No, we've done some things on spreadsheets and stuff.

    Me - Have you done anything not on Microsoft.

    ICT student - Umm - not sure - what else is there?

    Me - Might be an idea to go to Uni first and find out about IT - thanks for your call.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Grenade

      Plenty of truth in your post...

      ...but don't get me started on IT Uni Grads....plenty of them are still clueless.

      1. Antony King
        Happy

        it grads!=people who learnt IT @ uni

        He didn't say IT Uni grads, he said people who had learnt IT while at Uni. Subtle difference :-) One of our best IT guys studied hospitality management

    2. Commentator

      Ubuntu - not fit for purpose

      Ah, kool - Ubuntu. And of course, it never has problems. It doesn't drop printer access when upgrading from 'release' to 'release' - or muck up Samba, or cross-platform file sharing, or impose network traffic limits, or drop innocent users into a morass of vi/nano instructions.

      And such a support community, too! You never come across arrogant self satisfied responders who delight in obfuscation by referring noobs to 'just sudo this...'

      Or provides such wonders as Gimp, which almost, but just not quite does anything you want.

      There is a reason business does not use Ubuntu - it's not fit for purpose. And the idea of introducing it into a school environment with the expectation that it will /reduce/ IT frustration and cost is simply risible.

      I'll skip mentioning the thought that your attitude to a ICT student seeking a work placement in an environment where thay might learn about Linux pretty much sums up everything one needs to know about the attitude of Linux proponents I have come across.

  19. Sean Timarco Baggaley
    FAIL

    Come back Research Machines!

    All is forgiven!

    Nice to see the traditions of crap UK education are still going strong. Seriously: the IT Teacher complaining about having to maintain an interest in their subject? Priceless!

    I worked for a private school for a few years. Convincing the head that, yes, if you're going to teach IT, you really *do* need some f*cking computers in a classroom, was a genuinely epiphanic moment. (And no, I'm not kidding: she honestly thought it could be done entirely using textbooks!)

    So don't get your hopes up about the private sector. Just because you're not being paid by a local education authority, it doesn't mean you're not incompetent.

    Bye-bye BECTA. Like most quangos, you won't be missed.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Computers for Schhols Vouchers

    Never fear everyone can always shop at Tescos and collect those computer for schools vouchers they always ask if you are collecting. Job done.

  21. Bendy
    WTF?

    Piffle

    'We also now have School IT staff doing MORE paper work and research into computers, best prices and so on.'

    Bo****ks, We have always had to do this (If your talking about dedicated IT Staff), because Becta and LA's didn't and don't. There were frameworks for purchasing, but these have been ignored by LA's and by the majority of Schools.

    To the open source crowd: make your products manageable to the scale that we need in school and I'll use your products! How many corporations use Linux on the desktop? - You are getting there but not nearly fast enough - Smoothwall is a brilliant example of it done correctly.

    To the Government: Make the prefered suppliers of MIS systems stop hard coding and assuming that MS Office is on every machine.

    A greater and much easier Saving would be made if a few local Schools got together and purchased machines once a year.

    I don't think Crowne's £220k wage was ever justifiable. And if you look at the payscales on the Becta website they are all pretty disgusting for the amount of work they actually do.

    Becta did make some good frameworks, but as they were ignored they have made no difference, each supplier/school has there own standards, and that mess is due to continue for some time. If they had been enforced we wouldn't be where we are now.

    1. Anton Ivanov

      To the open source crowd: make your products manageable...

      It has always been manageable

      You are forgetting, Unix (and its linux offspring) were born and bred in educational institutions. The problem is not their manageability, but the lack of competence in IT staff on deploying Linux/Unix on the desktop. I have interviewed people in the past for companies and it is a very sorry picture. 99% of the IT personell which has linux sysadmin on their CV have _NO_ clue on how to use deploy it so it is manageable.

      Most of the IT staff simply does not know how to deploy desktop unixen - neither thick, nor thin desktop.

      Now the fact that it can be deployed in more than one way is not something which I would hold to its disadvantage, but just the opposite.

      1. Bendy

        @ Anton Ivanov

        You may be correct, but point me to the documentation that ensures I am doing it correctely, give me the long term support I need and tools to deploy patches.

        While your at it, get someone to pay for my training too.

    2. Rob Beard
      Linux

      Open Sauce

      Have you tried looking at Karoshi. To be fair it's been 12 years since I worked in education and then it was at a College so Karoshi might not tick all the boxes but it's surely gotta help.

      Also I guess have a look at K12LTSP? (good way to reuse old machines).

      Rob

      1. Bendy

        @ Rob Beard

        That looks quite nice. I shall have a play!

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Right..

    Speaking as one of those school support techs who (according to some of those above) knows bugger all, I welcome this. The term "Not BECTA approved", has been used to tie our hands for far too long, any time FOSS is mentioned, or development and supply of in-house programs. Maybe we can get back to giving our users what they need at a price they can afford, rather than passing along the latest hardware spec for a machine that wont do much more that browse the web, word processing and print a few jpg. If nothing else I hope it stops the dross that passes for educational software.

    anon for obvious reasons

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IT teachers...

    ...actually most schools would prefer that their IT teachers, err... teach IT, rather than being repair technicians or corporate sourcing folks. I’ve got no axe to grind in favour of BECTA, but the right answer isn’t to push the problem all the way out to the chalkface. You can see by the argument above about Open Office, Ubuntu whiteboards etc that it’s not an area where the answers are simple. I’m sure big colleges with large IT departments will be able to swim with their heads high above water, but what about a smallish primary school with 90 laptops, 9 interactive whiteboards and one teacher with responsibility for IT who if she’s lucky gets one half of her time to do everything to do with IT, including creating supporting materials for lessons, teaching other teachers, maintaining the school website and everything else... she’s not got a whole lot of time to decide to port the whole set-up over to Linux, now, has she?

    So by all means can BECTA, but makes sure there’s some other kind of support network to help all the other “one-woman bands” who will otherwise be left on their own all over the country...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Headmaster

      Re IT Teachers

      You just described the area I work in, not all primary's are the same, all the primary's in our area have there own dedicated support and help desk. I know I wouldn't trust any IC(spit)T Teacher or Coordinator to manage or support any of the multiple networks I manage. Its a hard line to walk knowing what you can do and doing what your allowed to do, but we make sure they all run smoothly and leave the teachers to teach, and they leave the tech to the techies.

    2. Ross 7

      Re:

      You need to differentiate between primary and secondary education. Primary tends to have smaller schools, whereas secondary tend towards being larger organisations.

      Secondary should be straightforward (except in very rural areas where the school is still small, i.e <700 kids on the roll) - you have IT staff (*not* teachers), they procure, or at least design the spec that is to be procured, and install and maintain (senior management often sort the actual spending of money).

      Smaller schools like primaries and some secondaries can either do the same, or if they are too small and lack the specialism they GO TO THE LOCAL AUTHORITY!!!!1!!11!! Piggy backing procurement in LAs is pretty common. The LA will be sourcing lots of stuff, so the schools (and libraries etc) can piggy back on to that for a decent deal and without needing any rare skills.

      No (state) school is ever on its own, it's part of an LEA. That it turn is part of the LA. If the schools aren't working together or with the LEA/LA and they are finding things hard then it's time to pick up the phone and network (if you'll pardon the appalling pun) Everyone can help each other, save the tax payer some money and stick something nice on their CV.

      PS - I don't disagree with what you're saying, I'm just pointing out that "one-woman bands" and their ilk aren't all alone in a scary world.

      PPS - Ubuntu in enterprise situations isn't the greatest idea. Linux is, but the support life of Ubuntu is too darned short (it is a really nice OS tho). All of the local LAs and LEAs here are still on XP (how old is that now?!) because it's still supoprted. How many versions of Ubuntu released since XP are now beyond their support period?

      1. Kevin Bailey

        Ubuntu support

        Check out Ubuntu LTS ( Long Term Support) - means it's supported for three years. (Five years on the server). More importantly this is how you upgrade Ubuntu.

        * Click upgrade.

        * Carry on working.

        * At some point later you should notice it says upgrade finished.

        * I would suggest a reboot (not necessarily needed).

        I've upgraded an Ubuntu laptop two/three times - and my Dell Mini 9 is still running the last LTS version.

        You chose what you want - but I suggest you use an LTS version - then upgrade three years later.

        And XP - does it count? Even with all it's patches it's still terrible. MS should have stuck with Win2k and developed it rather than mangling in all the 9x crud and producing XP.

        It always surprises me when people talk about XP like it's any good - it's slow to start with and then just gets slower.

        I

        1. Bendy

          @ Kevin Bailey

          More importantly this is how you upgrade Ubuntu.

          * Click upgrade.

          * Carry on working.

          * At some point later you should notice it says upgrade finished.

          * I would suggest a reboot (not necessarily needed).

          Ever done that 400 times? There is a lot of difference in managing your own machine and a network. I can save at least 3 days of my time by installing windows and using WDS, that in itself will pay for 12 Windows licences.

          Add the 6,000 new software installs, 18,000 Software Updates and god knows how many Updates and you may find that Windows does in some ways pay for itself with its management tools.

          I'd love it if Open Office became a standard though!

          Seriously though the FOSS crowd should stop pushing there wares until they have mature management tools to lock down desktops.

          1. Kevin Bailey

            Sigh... It's been done...

            Two minutes on Google should have found you what you mention.

            For comprehensive site wide management:

            http://www.canonical.com/projects/landscape

            'Add the 6,000 new software installs, 18,000 Software Updates and god knows how many Updates and you may find that Windows does in some ways pay for itself with its management tools'

            Right - we get a bit fed up explaining this time and again. All software on a Ubuntu machine comes from the same place. So one click and I can update ALL THE SOFTWARE on the machine - libraries, spreadsheets, compression tools, browsers, PDF readers, Java libraries, drivers, printer driver updates, office suites, the whole operating system and all software, EVERYTHING. In one click.

            The fact that on Windows that you have to download updates from all over the place is one of the biggest jokes about this joke OS.

            And do you know what - we've had centralised updates/repositories since BEFORE Windows 95!

            Please, please, please - grab an Ubuntu CD - do a test install.

            As for locking down desktops - it's there by default. That's why I can leave our five year old on a Ubuntu netbook without any fear of causing any problems.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    inseresting links

    http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/BECTA

  25. Alan Firminger

    Customer should pay

    If Becta has saved its costs then schools should subscribe as members.

    It would be best run by a board, or perhaps a trust, representing members.

    If enrolment were to be near total that would be less than 5 grand per school to provide the present funding. But there would come benefits of economy because schools are in the habit of parsimony, so big salaries, long expensive lunches on exes, and all the inevitable waste of government funded jobs gets ditched. Probably 2 grand per school, or £ 5 per pupil would cover it.

  26. Tom 7

    All these complaints about which Office Software to use

    in IT classes. So do physics departments argue over which knitting patterns to use?

    Teaching office skills is all well and good - but in IT classes?

    Its no wonder kids coming out of college think debugging involves staring long and hard at the screen and praying. A 2.1 in looking thing up in MSN is really helpful when the coffee machines knackered.

    1. Eponymous Cowherd
      Thumb Down

      ICT isn't Computer Science.

      Maybe it should be, but it isn't.

      It teaches kids to use computers, it does very little to teach them *about* computing.

      It attempts to train them to be efficient office drones, but fails miserably. The kids that are interested in computing are bored shitless at having to learn Word and Powerpoint instead of getting down to the nuts and bolts, while the rest are bored shitless, full stop.

      1. Piro Silver badge
        FAIL

        True

        This is entirely true. ICT teachers don't know IT at all.

        1. Eponymous Cowherd
          Thumb Up

          And those that do know IT.....

          Get so pissed of with teaching secretarial skills instead of IT that they piss off (back) to Industry.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Headmaster

        Nothing quite so useful

        Word and Powerpoint? Nothing so useful mate, Microsoft Publisher. So not even useful in an office drone context.

    2. Chris J

      The world needs more spreadsheet monkeys than coffee machine engineers.

      http://www.bing.com/search?q=how+to+fix+coffee+machine

  27. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Thumb Up

    Shorting RM

    (who are still *very* much in business).

    Sounds like a plan.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Tom 7

    "Its no wonder kids coming out of college think debugging involves staring long and hard at the screen and praying."

    Doesn't it? Damn, that's what I've been doing wrong all these years!

    On a wider note, back when my mum started teaching (in about '95) my younger brother and I were her main source of technical assistance and advice. However, as she was the only one at her first school with any knowledge of what a computer looked like she was asked to run the schools I.T. budget.

    From that experience, there is definitely room for SOME sort of advisory service to help ensure that these schools do not get ripped off for their I.T. requirements. You have to bear in mind that there's a massive difference between a Secondary/High school with a dedicated I.T. department and staff, and a Primary school with a middle-aged non-techy woman running the budget. While I agree that BECTA may have proved more of a hinderance to larger schools I do think that these smaller schools still need guidance.

    As for the arguments of whether Windows/Linux/Mac are most appropriate, I think there should be room for all of them within I.T. qualifications at schools, to ensure a broad knowledge. They could spend roughly equal amounts of money buying each type and get 50 Linux PC's, 20 Windows PC's and a Mac.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    A step in the right direction

    There's plenty of money to be saved in the sector; I just hope they are rational about where they are making the cuts. This seems to be a positive start.

    As for Linux on the desktop? I can't see it. We had some SUSE boxes here for a period of time (we responded to some periodic requests for Linux in our computer centre) but they were not a huge success. Also, the first line support at that site were not skilled in Linux (or specifically that distro) and felt limited that they were not able to help more. Likewise it was a time-intensive job to prep those clients when a similar windows deployment would have been essentially one-touch.

    I do not thing freedom in procurement and sacking BECTA essentially equates to opening the door for more open source projects; they still need to up their management tools; Windows and Apple are still the only game in town in this respect.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Becat home access package

    Is there where "poor" children are given free laptops and internet access at home, because it's "unfair" that their parent(s) cannot afford such things and otherwise they would have to go to the library?

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Too little too late

    The problem BECTA has had is that it has only in recent years grown any teeth, or indeed known what it is it was supposed to be doing. In many areas it still cannot tell schools what to do, merely recommend. Over the years it has created a huge bank of resources that are in fact useful to schools, including advice on child protection, procurement, subject specific data and many other delicate areas that schools required guidance on. Then hid them all in a website that was un-navagable and next to useless when it came to actually extracting relevant information from. It also made the mistake of being very teacher-centric when the vast majority of IT decisions in schools are now made by the on-site network managers and technicians, some of who are now (thankfully) reaching positions in the school senior leadership teams where they can prevent teachers making daft policy and spending decisions. It is only very recently BECTA has begun to deliver the goods after spending years flapping around in waht appeared to be a rudderless fashion. There was a lace for BECTA, it is a great shame that they never found out what it was until it was far too late.

    As with the Labour govts National Grid for Learning (NGfL) initiative which saw a huge boost in the levels of IT spending and infrastructure in schools, it fell down on the curriculum where the resources where wasted on simply teaching Microsoft Office skills, instead of preparing children in programming, networking and all of the really useful real world IT skills the country required to make it the IT powerhouse Labour intended. Well that and the fact that the vast bulk of IT teachers cannot teach any other skills apart from Office. IT in education needs a huge rethink to utilise the equipment the schools currently have and give our children the skills and interest levels required to steer them into a vast subject and career area where currently they are left with limited and boring lessons and teaching staff who do not have the skills to teach beyond the use of basic applications.

  32. ROCO
    Alert

    Home Access - will those with disabilities now be further disadvantaged and discriminated against???

    I'm very concerned that the Assistive Technology Equipment Supply (ATES) contract could now be jeopardised by the demise of Becta.

    Children with disabilities still haven't received their Home Access systems, as their disabilities need to be addressed with speciailist equipment for them to use the systems... so are the government going to disciminate against those with disabilities, given their Home Access provision was to be provided under the ATES contract - which has been longer in coming than the National roll-out for those with disabilities (which wouldn't be suitable for these kids)?

    If this was the case, it would fly in the face of all anti-discrimination legislation in the UK and paint a very poor picture for the new government - let's hope this isn't the case. My limited understanding is that this contract was just about to be awarded, giving those who are already doubly disadvantaged (low incomes + disbilities) a chance for a more level playing field in life.

    Just hoping that the government concurs by ensuring these kids with disabilities still receive their Home Access systems with the necessary technology they need to be effective and productive in their education and future employment - which must be a worthwhile long-term benefit to our economy???

  33. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Title Required

    Ultimately it doesn't matter whether Becta said you should use Microsoft Office, Open Office or whatever - it is the exam boards who set the courses and want course work in certain formats.

    Look at the BCS ECDL course that's common in schools, all the courseware I have ever seen for that has been for Microsoft Office.

    What Becta says/said will never make a difference while the exam boards are setting the requirements.

  34. Magnus_Pym

    Two points

    1.Becta stands between a Tory politician and his back-handers from commerce, of course they had to go.

    2. The comprehensive system is designed to feed industry with grunts. Your kids are taught what is useful to industry in your area. If you want then to get an education in how to make decisions and do stuff you have to pay for it.

  35. akicif
    WTF?

    Illiterate eejits

    It's a pity that the various people slagging off BECTA here have about as much wit as the numpties who slagged off Birmingham Council for cancelling Christmas; they've heard something somewhere, and haven't actually got around to checking it - most likely because it fits in with their preconceptions. I suspect that a lot of the time people in schools have been told "BECTA say this" or "BECTA say that" when it's just the LEA or the school admin types making life easier for themselves.

    For a more specific example, if any of them had bothered reading this page: http://about.becta.org.uk/display.cfm?resID=35287 they would have seen that BECTA not only didn't recommend wholesale adoption of Microsoft software, but also recommend Open Software and complained to the OFT about Microsoft's practices....

    Sadly, this also makes it a lot more understandable that our current Government should scrap them.

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