'Lunatic' Smith doubles ID card costs for Mancunians

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith today confirmed that Manchester volunteers will be allowed to pay a total of £60 for an ID card from later this year. The price tag on the ID card will remain £30, but the Home Office is now estimating the cost of biometric enrollment, payable to the high street stores it hopes to recruit, as a …

[Anonymous Coward]

Checkpoint Jacqui

This is a something that fascists and communists, you know the one's responsible for mass executions on a grand scale, do every time they get into power, they produce an ID system first.

UK liberty has always been finely balanced, it is very much a cultural thing of fair play and stiff upper lip, this Jacqui character (sounds French doesn't she), has done her level worse to ensure the UK becomes a dustbin of racism and authoritarianism, that is the Labour legacy that we will all have to work to undo.

And isn't this Jacqui the one who spends tax money on pornography for her own titillation at our expense, how can anyone take her seriously after that, she is debauched.

[Anonymous Coward]

If...

someone assasinates her, can we give them a medal or name a new bank holiday after them or something?

Please?

[TeeCee]

Dear Ms. Smith.

I'm going to aquire some sheets of plastic and cut them into small rectangles suitable for you to turn into ID cards. I promise to be careful with the scissors.

I reckon this'll cost me about a tenner but, being a generous soul, I'm going to "allow" you to pay me a million pounds for them.

[Jonothan Harbourne]

Smith is beyond lunacy and far out into fantasy

Saw a quote attributed to Wacki Jacqui on the bbc news site claiming "ID cards will deliver real benefits to everyone, including increased protection against criminals, illegal immigrants and terrorists,".

I can only assume they come with some sort of uber hi-tech (and so far secret) personal shielding to stop the criminals, immigrants and terrorists getting at you, possibly explains why they're going to cost so much.

Last to leave please remember to turn out the lights

[Anonymous Coward]

Goodbye to the Lunatic

And, if the Sun is right (which would be something of an event in itself), then please let me wipe a tear from my eye (yeah, right) and say bloody good riddance to the mad two-faced bint. The only trouble is who the mad Gordo will replace her with? Mandelson? Jeeez no!

[Andrew]

final nail in the coffin

With the greatest of respect to my local pharmacist, the idea that she may be the eventual arbiter of which fingerprints get associated with which "real name" is surely the last nail in the coffin of David Blunket's mythical "clean database". If ID cards are to be issued on the strength of showing up with a passport, surely there will be about as many fake ID cards in circulation as there are fake passports. What IS the point?

Given that last thing we heard, the cost of fingerprint *readers* hadn't even been put in a budget - still less their production and deployment put out to tender - the value of getting yours recorded on a card must be ... limited: and the over-all cost savings from cancelling the project will be much higher than these ("£1bn from £5bn") government figures suggest,

[Eponymous Cowherd]

Wacky by name....

wacky by nature.

If I was a Mancunian I'd be feeling badly insulted that Wacky thinks me stupid enough to *volunteer* to be placed on an Orwellian biometric database and, further, *pay* £60 for the privilege.

The phrase "Turkeys voting for Christmas" comes to mind.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Mancunian's n ID cards

The only mancunians to buy one of these dreadful pieces of plastic will be those entreprenures who will attempt to produce fake ones at half the priceof a real one.

To be fair, the fakes will proberbly work better than the real one's.

[Ash]

*sigh*

What does Jacqui Smith want? What's her agenda? Her motivation?

I'm having a very difficult time not comparing her to some far-fetched supervillain from a Bond movie, or Ming the Merciless.

Totalitarian, oppressive tyrant. I'm Liberal, but I think I may well vote Tory just to get ID cards out of the scene. What a sad affair... A 25 year old voting Conservative.

@AC (assassination): Not the way to do it. The next person in her place will just pick up the flag and keep running, only this time they'll have a martyr to the cause.

[Anonymous Coward]

Burn!

The question is, if she was on fire and you happened to be walking past with a screwdriver in your hand, would you attempt to put her out with it?

[Mike Shepherd]

Next step

The next step is predictable: create inconvenience for those without a card.

Posting a package over 100g? Save time on the new Post Office anti-terror checks with a UK ID card! No need for your passport or two recent utility bills. Your friendly postmistress will check the ID card photo and scan your bar code.

Council imposed restrictions on your local pub after trouble? Walk straight in with a UK ID card!

Want a seat on that train at rush hour? Beat the security queues with a UK ID card!

[sig]

Descartes' dilemma solved

"Transporto ergo sum"

[Anonymous Coward]

voluntary... my elbow.

Voluntary eh, what - like the scheme for pilots? That is to say, you don't /have/ to get an ID card, but if you don't have one, you can't get an airside security pass. Slight problem if you're a pilot, I'd guess.

So... expect to see indirect compulsion within weeks - police requiring clubs to check ID cards on entry or something. Nothing to do with the Home Office, of course, an unrelated quango / agency / whatever will take an 'independent decision'.

And anyway - who will volunteer to spend £60 on something they don't need? Will it entitle you to 5% off at the supermarket, or impress your friends with MP4 playing abilities, or look good round your neck while dancing? No.

As for protection against terrorism & immigration - what horsefeathers. Unless everyone in the WORLD has to carry a UK.Gov ID card its useless against non-UK-originating activities. Might as well claim a condom protects against computer viruses.

[Smallbrainfield]

Sixty quid for something I don't want or need?

I just paid for a passport, wtf do I need an id card for? Is there a checkpoint on the road into Salford now?

[dontsurf]

Smith in Manc id wank

Wacky: Hello Sir, would you like an id card, they're voluntary and only 60 quid?

Manc: What are the benefits to me?

Wacky: Well, you'd be fighting terrorism and organised crime.

Manc: How?

Wacky: We take your finger prints, photo and details, enter it into a database and put the details on a card, when a crime is committed we will check it against the database and bingo.

Manc: I see, how many criminals do you expect to sign up for this voluntary scheme?

Wacky: Oooh, lots and lots I would imagine.

Manc: Can we have a General Election?

Wacky: Erection you say?

Manc: Er...... yes I have an erection, would you like to beat me off? only 60 quid and I can give you a receipt to cover expenses.

Wacky: OK.

[Anonymous Coward]

house of cards

So the long knives are out for Ms. Smith. A very British coup. Yes, minister?

Unfortunately a new figurehead will not change anything in the way of policy on spying on the populace or the systematic ongoing efforts at tagging, spindling, mutilating, folding and finally leaving the records on a train somewhere (but not before having a ham-fisted attempt or three at converting the data into actual currency, be it merely political or dot com-style net(work) worth).

[Anonymous Coward]

@TeeCee

It'll have to be the right kind of plastic - The Today programme on Radio 4 this morning said that part of the government advice for how to check a card (in the absence of any card readers) is to flick it. They apparantly have a unique sound. I kid you not.

[Luther Blissett]

ID cards? Phwoarrrrrrr

Put me down for a dozen. Do I live in Manchester? If you like, why not.

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one...

will flat out refuse to have an id card.

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My life is my own."

- The Prisoner

And with that I'd also like to say a great big 'fuck you, you fucking crazy neo-fascist scumbag whore-btich from hell!' to miss Wacky.

Anonymous, because that's what we should be to our so-called `public servants.`

[Anonymous Coward]

Devious, very devious...

"Even the Home Office concedes that "only a small number of volunteers in Manchester" will be able to enrol for an ID card before the end of the year"

In other words, if it's so difficult to get hold of the darned things that they have to artificially restrict the number of them that are available, then when the hopeless few who actually dowant the cards go and register for them, the HO can claim 'high demand'.

Very devious and also very clever. Surprisingly.

[Stuart]

Missing a few billion?

Deeply depressing and proof this is a con was the statement that dumping ID cards would 'save' only a billion or so. I mean multiply the population by £30 (or the more realistic £600) means a tax of between 2 and 4 billion. Add in the other costs of running this system you are into a magnitude more.

The cancellation charge on an initial contract is a small part of the cost. Jacqui knows that (surely even she can't be that thick?) Deliberately seeking to mislead and cheat the people she took oath to serve should be treason. But then when you think the people are just there to pay for your bath plugs and porn - why should she worry.

Dead meat that even the hungriest hyena will walk away from. Oh and I was a Labour supporter.

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd have thought...

...from its history that IBM wouldn't want to get involved in the compulsory registration of citizens all over again.

[Ash]

@AC ("Burn")

No, I'd be a good humanitarian and end her suffering.

[Anonymous Coward]

@Ash

Yup, the last thing we need is a martyr. The way to do it is to hack her computer (we know it's connected via Virgin Media), email some extreme porn (it's illegal now) to everyone in her address book and then stage her suicide. It's a bit of effort, but it'd be really worth it.

The headlines would be great: "Jackqui wacks self after broadcasting illegal porn fetish", though the Sun would come up with something miles better.

Gravestone? It's the only place for her in my dreams.

[Mike]

Biometric Enrolment

Does the biometric enrolment still include iris scans? If so, I would be interested to know what, if any, testing has been carried out to see how well the system will cope with Ocular Albinism and acute Nystagmis.

The first of these conditions results in a significant reduction in pigmentation in the retina and iris, along with a reduction in opacity of blood vessels. The second leads to persistent, involuntary motion of the eye which cannot be controlled.

Those of us with these conditions are likely to find this type of enrolment impossible, and if staff are not properly trained to recognise these conditions (and others which may lead to problems) will also likely end up very humiliating.

[Anonymous Coward]

Embarrassing

It's getting to the stage where I might actually consider voting Tory.

[SuperTim]

Protection

I feel protected by this already. I have lost count of the number of times i have been to manchester and wondered whether all those people are actually mancunians.....

Thanks Wacqui Jacqui, now your super dooper system will identify mancs for me without the need for them to wear army surplus anoraks and swagger like they have plopped their pants, Kiddohh!

"Its a craaaazy sit- yew-aashuuuun, when all i want is cigarettes and alcohol.....Ere's my ID card fellohhh!".

[Alfonso Vespucci]

Oh dear...

Remember how this all started. Clean database, iris scans biometric photo and fingerprints, a national network of IPS enrolment centres, scanners in every port, airport, bank, hospital, doctors surgery, solicitors office and god knows where else, all connected in real time to the NIR (but not by the internet).

What have we got now. A photocard which might have your fingerprints and image encoded on a chip, but no-one will ever know because no readers exist. A card whose authenticity is established by flicking it. I'm not joking, according to official guidance it has a distinctive sound.

If anyone can ever find 2 in the same place maybe they could report back

[Hugh Fordham]

Flick It

According to Dr Whitley this morning, because there are no card readers available the way people are advised to check if an ID card is the real thing is to "flick it". Apparently genuine cards will make a particular noise because they are made in a special way. This whole thing gets more bonkers by the day.

[adnim]

To close for comfort

My not so sleepy market town home is too close to Manchester for comfort.

As a native of Salford, I was born a quick joyride away from the Utd. training ground and although I haven't lived in Salford for many, many years, I am still very familiar with Manchester. And as such I can confidently say that if these cards were free, take up would be less than 30-35%. At a price of £30 I am hoping the take up is less than 10%.

What a silly place to roll out such a liberty infringing service that has the potential to track a persons life. Why did she not choose the town or city with the lowest crime figures in the UK? That's I rhetorical question, the reason she choose Manchester becomes obvious when one examines her political career... She hasn't got a clue.

As Mike:Next Step stated, there will be mission creep with this card.. Want a beer/fags from the off licence? Want to get into the pub? Want to view an 18 movie, Want to enter a nightclub? Need to see a doctor? Need a prescription filled? Need Car Tax/MOT? Want to buy a car? Anywhere there is some form of age restriction in place, eventually, an ID card will be the only accepted ID. The majority of Mancunians are not going to fall for this.

@AC:Burn!

Nope.. I would wait until she is dead then piss on her.

[System 10 from Navarone]

@Next Step

...absolutely right, Mike.

I remember a comic strip on the back of a Dead Kennedy's single (ah, those were the days) where someone was shouting to the police, "Stop Him! He's trying to buy vegetables and he hasn't got a number" (I think the numbers were tattooed on forearms or foreheads)

I didn't know why it stuck in my mind, until now...

Anyway, I'll get my coat because with no ID card I soon won't be able to buy a new one.

[Duckorange]

It's all a bet...

... by the Freemason Illuminati elite to get a home secretary that is worse than the one before.

Take a look at the recent list of incumbants if you don't believe me:

Kenneth Baker

Ken Clarke

Michael Howard

Jack Straw

David Blunkett

Charles Clarke

John Reid

Jacqui Smith

Next in line for the job is a Hostess Trolley from the John Lewis list

[Mad Jack]

Overkill

I have a (paid for) photo driving license and machine readable passport also with photo. Why on earth do I now need another (paid for) form of ID?

Apart from which, it took the government long enough to sort out the passports fiasco - I have zero confidence that they:

a) won't screw up planning, rollout and ongoing support like they do with most Gov. IT projects

b) won't accidentally release everyones confidential data to the world like they did with the CDs

c) won't run massively over budget by making unrealistic assumptions like they do with most Gov. IT projects

d) won't subsequently claim it as an achievement when it's quite clear (and everyone knows) it was a dismal failure like most Gov. IT projects.

Has anyone run the numbers - i.e. is £60 per person for everyone in the UK enough to settle the Brownian debt mountain? There has to be a real reason for this madness.

Please bring on the general election.

[ElFatbob]

FFS!

£250MM already spent of this pile of steaming shite?

That gravy sounds extra thick....

[Anonymous Coward]

Grr

1) We're in a recession - why are the government spending my tax on crap like this? Even if the £30 from the users pays for the scheme, it's still effectively a tax.

2) I don't want to live in a police state, and this is a step towards it

3) Why bother? The government know they have lost the next election, and the other parties who will form the next one are making strong noises about scrapping it anyway. (Actually, Labour could win the next election, but they will need to make serious changes, one of which would be binning id cards...)

[Anonymous Coward]

Tuttle Buttle

Apparently, according to some bright sparks, the following should apply:

"If your innocent of all wrongdoing, why would you oppose having an ID card, you already have a passport, what difference does it make?"

Here's a few issues:

1. It's going to cost a few billion. We don't have a few billion to spend, we'll be in debt for the next 5000 years

2. We don't need another form of ID - we already have passports, drivers licences, birth certificates, banking details, post code info, CCTV cameras, RFID chips in our trousers - the list goes on

3. There's no conclusive evidence it will be any more effective against crime or terrorism than the current ID checks. Criminals don't always wear black hats and terrorists aren't always dressed in white robes with long black beards.

4. We don't trust the government with our data - they've proven a few times now that they are incompetent in this regard, or in fact, incompetent in every regard. Get them out.

5. Jaqui Smith is, more than likely, a mad evil old witch with a fondness for Stalin/Hitler - this is pure conjecture of course.

6. If you've seen the bad guys in the movie Brazil, you'll get a glimpse into the mind of the afore-mentioned soon-to-be-axed mad old evil witch.

7. Gordon Brown doesn't have a lower jaw

[Eden]

Oh dear

I have a problem with finger print scanners, apparently this is fairly common in oriental blood as we have shallower prints?

I have a fair bit of difficulty with the fingerprint logon on my laptop if there is even a tiny bit of grease/dust, and my trip to New York was VERY interesting when my finger prints wouldn't scan at all *sigh*

[Anonymous Coward]

Enforced identifications

If Waqui insists on people having them they will become a mark of shame, associated with criminals, government workers (including bankers) and other untrustworthy types who she can bully. That means you will be discriminated against for holding one.

[Anonymous Coward]

Life imitates art

I think it was Alan Coren who wrote a short story called something like "Due To Circumstances Beyond Our Control, 1984 Has Been Indefinitely Delayed". His thesis was that no British government could ever be competent enough to achieve a police state, even if it wanted to. If I remember correctly it ends with Winston Smith in Room 101 but "Sorry Mr O'Brien, we're out of rats. Will these white mice do?"

And now, it seems that he was right. Our super secure, unforgeable "clean" ID cards are actually going to be issued by Boots the Chemist. and you'll be able to tell by the noise they make when you flick them if they're real or fake.

I'd laugh if it wasn't for the stupid amounts of money that they've wasted on this fiasco.

[Anonymous Coward]

Retail Outlets

How long before said data is "sold" to the retail outlets to make the price more attractive?

Pop into you local shop, handover your Award card for a "super duper" discount & help make the UK a safer place. Hell they might even try that one to offset the "voluntary" £60 !!!

OMG i hope i haven't given them even more "wacky" ideas.

Labour go away & slowly die.

Come June you will know just how much the UK populace resent you & the crackpot idea's you keep coming up with.

/Flame coz labour are well & truly burnt.

[John Lettice]

Re: Oh dear

As I understand it the 'problem' with Asian fingerprints is a myth. One of the most successful ID card systems in the world is the Hong Kong one, which uses fingerprints at high throughput booths at the border with mainland China. The vast majority of users of this being Asian, I think it likely you have a fingerprint issue special to yourself. But yes, they do get very ratty at US border control if your fingers are bust, don't they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lunatic?

So she's moving up the evolutionary chain then?

@dontsurf & SuperTim

Shame on the both of you. I had to get a new keyboard just to type all this.

[Anonymous Coward]

Goverment idea of "Security"

1. Use a SmartCard/RFID Chip that contains all your personal data unencrypted.

2. Use vulnerable software to store said data on the uber-computer

3. Backup said data onto USB and maybe print off a few for good measure.

4. Take a train ride to (Insert place name here) and leave said USB/paper on seat. For Tom, Dick, Bin Laden to find.

5. Claim that it wasnt your fault. Fire the person standing closest to you at the time.

All this just so they can watch what we are doing

(Waits for the RFID readers in lamposts linked to CCTV to have your database ID floating above your head in CCTV videos)

Oh soo damn fun

That penguin is so cute!

[Anonymous Coward]

Go n the Mancs

Let's hope that the good people of Manchester deal withthis inthe same way as the recent governemnt blackmail backed road charging scheme, and vote it right out of town.

Waste of money, and a huge step into the Police state land!

[John Smith]

And the benefits to a Mancunian are?

1) Early sample of hardware so you can get an early crack at breaking the crypto and physical forgery.

Well that's the only benefit to *me*, the user of this piece of nonsense that I can see. Otherwise £60 right down the drain.

Otherwise what? Help plod get you home once your'e blathered? Collectors item on eBay?

Let's not forget that Greater Manchester Police if famous for being the former force of old James "Jesus" Anderton AKA "Gods Cop." Remebered for such gems as gays "Wallow in a cess pit of their own making." So force, sorry, "Service" promotion policy is likely to leave it well infested with senior plods of similar views. Not that I'm prejudiced against God bothering types. After all their practices are legal as well.

Sign because I think we all know what most will be happening to most to most of these.

[Anonymous Coward]

Consider more carefully if you will...

As much as I dislike the ugly, baggy mouthpiece that Wacky Jacky is, bear in mind that whoever replaces her will still be doing the bidding of the home office civil servants, not Gordon Brown or even the Labour party.

It's not her motives you need to question, she doesn't have motives beyond feathering her own nest as much as possible before being given the boot. Ask yourselves: "Who will benefit from the control of all this information?" It's the civil service, not the government of the day.

[Anonymous Coward]

@ Ash

What is her motivation? What's she like?

More like Dr Choo en Ginsberg M.A (failed) from Round The Horne.

[The Fuzzy Wotnot]

Hmmm....

So how is small piece of plastic going to stop some mad nutter with a killing fetish from blowing me sky-high, if they so choose? So when I take my credit card to the local town bar and some git clones it out the back, how will this very expensive piece of crap stop that from happening?

I still maintain we should only allow the winning party to serve 2 years tops, that way they won't have enough time after the victory celebrations to do anything stupid like this!

[Dale]

Backhanders?

You know, a few years ago the South African government came up with a grand plan to spend billions of Rands on a huge arms deal which included ships, submarines, planes, and who knows what else. Almost everyone thought it was a bad idea, that the money would be better spent elsewhere but government pushed it through regardless. Wasn't long before the allegations of backhanders, corruption and personal enrichment schemes starting ringing out, some of which were proved true by the resulting convictions and many more either still under investigation or involving high-enough politicians that they are unlikely to ever come to trial.

The Tories say they will can ID cards if they get elected, which is an entirely likely possibility. You have to wonder why some people in government are pushing so hard to get as much of the ID card scheme through as possible before the next election when it has so little support. The vendors will still get their billions if the plan is cancelled because of cancellation penalties built into contracts they negotiated with the politicians, so there is a great incentive to ensure the contracts are signed before they get voted out.

[peter]

Why would I bother?

I don't have any particular objections to an ID card.....mainly because I carry two forms on me at all times (work and Armed Forces) and have easy access to two others (Driving Licence and Passport, Birth Certificate etc). If i wanted to I could apply for others as well. (Age Verification for example).

My main objection is that an ID card will not replace any of them. I asked a question of each of the organisations and the answer was the same. The Government Issued ID card will not replace any of the forms of ID that I own.

Seeing that the government already owns every piece of information that could be associated with an ID card if they want to use it for terrorism or immigration offences, and i already own all the ID I need to apply for a mortgage/bank account etc, can anyone from the govermnment please explain why i would want to spend another £30?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's worth remembering...

It is worth remembering if we all take a high resolution scan of our fingerprints and stick them onto the internet, the whole system will probably fall over, what with the trivial nature of making a fake fingerprint.

[Anonymous Coward]

@AC Life Imitates Art

Yes, hold that thought...........Its the only thing that lets me sleep at nights

[Mark Monaghan]

@AC - Life imitates art

Not white mice but a stoat. An elderly stoat which just sat in the corner and wheezed a bit.

Its the one with "The Sanity Inspector" in the pocket.

[RW]

Whacking Waqui Jaqui: a plethora of plaints

@ Ash: "What does Jacqui Smith want? What's her agenda? Her motivation?"

Those are very good questions. I've kept my eyes peeled for news that may shed light on the answers, and here's what the situation looks like: it's not actually Dear Jacqui's doing. There's a high-ranking police official (whose name I've seen in print, but alas! did not note) who has the ear of the Home Secretary (not just Dear Jacqui, but also her predecessors in office). And like all cops, he's all in favor of a cradle-to-grave police state, excepting of course the police themselves. (Quis cusodiet ipsos custodies? No one at all, that's who, under this scheme.)

Dear Jacqui herself is simply too stupid and too permeated with do-gooder nanny-state sympathies to recognize this evil man's suggestions for what they are, nor does she understand that the role of a chief magistrate (for such she is) is to curb the police and subject them to continual severe scrutiny. That's the only way to frustrate the cops' baser instincts.

Dear Jacqui has no agenda, no motivation. She's simply the victim of propaganda, lies, and disinformation that she's too stupid to recognize for what it is.

@ Mike: "Does the biometric enrollment still include iris scans? ... how well [will] the system ... cope with Ocular Albinism and acute Nystagmis[?]"

More to the point, how well will it cope with irises reduced to a mere thin rim by ophthalmological drops that dilate the pupils?

@ Matt "We don't trust the government with our data - they've proven a few times now that they are incompetent in this regard..."

A few times? Surely you jest, sir! From where I sit it looks like *many* times.

For those interested in frustrating fingerprint readers, a tip: go out into your garden immediately before being fingerprinted and hand-pick slugs that are eating your rutabaga seedlilngs. Slug slime is incredibly difficult to remove!

[Martin]

@Goverment idea of "Security"

You forgot:

6. Repeat

[Chris Thorpe]

@peter Why would I bother?

It would be interesting to volunteer to get a card then, having found it unacceptable as actual ID anywhere, report the Home Office to the Manchester Trading Standards Office. 'I bought this from that Mrs Smith and she sold it to me as an ID card. All it's good for is making a clicky sound and cutting up lines of coke'.

I'm too apathetic to read up on it, but does anyone know if, while this is still in the 'voluntary' phase, you can opt back out again if unsatisfied?

Paris, coz she also makes a clicking sound if flicked with a fingernail

[David Ramsay]

What ID crap is this

I know who I am. Why do I need an ID?

However, they need to prove who I am before any ID is valid so don't help them to find out.

If ID is required to obtain access or other life supporting activities - quote the Human Rights Act.

When that fails to convince let them lock me up!

[Anonymous Coward]

@Smallbrainfield

" I just paid for a passport, wtf do I need an id card for? Is there a checkpoint on the road into Salford now?"

No, but hopefully there's on on the way out.

Paris, I'm poorly sick with man flu (swine flu as a feminist friend would put it) and I need her to mop my fevered brow.

[Ian]

what's happening to this country?

On top of all these ID card shenanigans, I read this yesterday:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/8033442.stm

So now it's less 'If you've got nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear' and more 'If you've got nothing to hide, and full documentary evidence of where you got any of the stuff you didn't think you needed to hide, you have nothing to fear'

It's just not cricket, I tell you!

[Anonymous Coward]

@RW

Motivation : Business jobs / consultancy

How many ministers get plum consulting jobs (often when they leave). A friend of mine was a consultant PM working for HMRC on £400 a day. He had previously worked in the FCO and got a job working for one of the primary vendors of ID cards for £700 a day... that's a good increase.

So there is a lot of money to play for, and if you're about to be axed as cabinet minister - hey, keep those suppliers sweet. The Smith family are very motivated by money (e.g. claiming money for viewing porn etc.) and are unscrupulous.

I just hope a very strong signal is sent to the government in the June elections but alas this won't happen - people vote as their families have voted and believe old myths:

1. You have to be white and rich / middle-upper class to vote Conservative

2. A vote for the Liberal Democrats is the same as putting your vote in the bin

I don't subscribe to either of the above.

[Anonymous Coward]

@AC "Burn"

I'd use the screwdriver to jemmy open the lock on the nearest door and find the nearset flammable liquidl i could.

Id then pour it all over the thick minging bint...If she was at deaths door, id be ther to help (read: push) her through.

[Ascylto]

Peppers, pliss.

I, for one, will boycott any and every store which partcipates in this scheme which would make the STASI blush.

Gordo will replace Jackboot Jacqui in the next reshuffle but let's not forget that it's the Labour Party who have done more than any other to get rid of our liberties and destroy the principles of Magna Carta.

Labour are DEEPLY afraid of the British public ... they show it in their every action.

[John Smith]

@RW

"Jaqui Smith is, more than likely, a mad evil old witch with a fondness for Stalin/Hitler - this is pure conjecture of course."

Your restraint in this description of her does you considerable credit. Please note that she is a Politics/Philosophy/Economics graduate. I would add she seems, *perhaps* unwittingly, rather fond of apply Lenin' s comment I paraphrase as "Push the bayonet in. if it meets fat, push in further. If it meets muscle pull back for later."

[John Smith]

2 good reasons for this

The "benign" one.

Manchester airport is the 1 of the 2 trial airports for ID cards, so the airline pilots enthusiasm for them will be infectious and pretty soon the whole airport, their friends and family will be queing up for it. At least that's what the voices in the heads of the people who planned this said.

The "malign" one.

They refused to put in congestion charging in return for the money for a new tram system. This will teach those inbred Manc scum whose in charge. not forgetting their dangerously close proximity to the outskirts of Liverpool. Making them at least cousins to "Scizzers" as ex-public school type senior civil servants might refer to them.

[gaz]

The big picture.

I think you're all missing the big picture of what the ID cards are intended for - so that paper / coin currency can be abolished, as well as track every movement, transaction, comment, conversation etc.

[Anonymous Coward]

Flick it?

Flick it? Special sound eh?

I hope it makes a noise like a hippo blowing off into a trombone. I'd pay £60 for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Mancunians know better.

Smith is trawling for potential business partners to implement her nightmarish Manchester test bed for ID cards. As is the way with all New Labour projects, deals will be cut, profit margins agreed, contracts signed, and all this under the umbrella protection of 'commercial confidentiality' and 'national security'.

Poor old Joe Bloggs, who is presumed by the government to be so stupid that he doesn't even know who he is, will be expected to cough up £60 for a voodoo token that will magically protect him from 'bad people', and at the same time contribute to NuLab's Rip Off Britain culture.

I confidently predict that no more than 0.001% of greater Manchester's 2 million population will sign up for this crock of shit and businesses that participate will be committing brand suicide.

[ElFatbob]

@ Gaz

Spot on (anyone ever wondered why the banks are currently the beneficiaries of such governmental generosity).

The other part of that plan is that the information will be collected and analysed for the purposes of control / surveillance and selling the relevant information to the big corporations.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've registered my interest...

The Manc cards will cost £30, not £60, because the biometrics will be done centrally not in the high street. So, I'll be saving £30 by signing up before the full roll out and when everyone has to have one. You can bet that the Cons will make up some fantastic excuse as to why they can't scrap the scheme when they get in.

Also, on the off-chance that the scheme does get scrapped by the next government - what's the chances of the LibDems being elected? - then my card will become a collector's item and I can sell it at a tidy profit on eBay.

Plus, the project is currently keeping me in the filthy-rich contractor lifestyle to which I am accustomed...

:o)

Mine's the one with the Cayenne Turbo S keys in the pocket. Hey, tax payer, do you like my car? You ought to, you bought it! LOL

[Guy Herbert]

@ Chris Thorpe -- one-way voluntary

"I'm too apathetic to read up on it, but does anyone know if, while this is still in the 'voluntary' phase, you can opt back out again if unsatisfied?"

Yes; you can't. Whatever the reason you become registered on what they are now calling "the Service" rather than "the Register" (and probably not to avoid confusion with an esteemed web organ), you are stuck with all the notification requirements, charges, future changes of conditions, and threats to your personal data security for life (and indeed after you are dead) or until the Identity Cards Act 2006 is repealed.

[John Smith]

Current cancellation fees listed @ £40m

According to a report last night on either Chan 4 news or Newsnight.

So £40m now versus what? Total cost is listed £5.4Bn. Setup costs supposedly c£500m (that seems to be going up). So dumping £490m / year. That's 4.9x the increase in the take from the new 50% maximum tax rate. Or 0.306% straight off the annual c£160bn Govt borrowing requirement.

[Anonymous Coward]

Mancunian but will not volunteer

This is yet more attempts to trim away citizens privacy, this government has totally lost the way, completely paraniod and unfit for office. The petition asking Gordon Brown to resign how has over 54,000 signatures he should go and take everyone with him. Wacky Jacky should also resign.

[Chris Thorpe]

@Guy Herbert

After I'm dead? Sheesh! That means I can look forward to being interred, exhumed, and then interned.

I'll get my shroud.

[John Smith]

A suggestion to Gordon Brown

By now you know that short of hiring Robert Mugabe as your "Electoral Advisor" you haven't a cat in Hell's chance of winning the next election. Your continued loyalty to some of Tony's old plans (along with some of his most fanatical supporters) might be quite touching but is unlikely to win that historic 4th term and that place in History you *know* you deserve.

However you can do the next best thing.

You can stuff the Conservatives.

You know they will eyeing up the savings from dumping ID cards. 500m a year straight off the top.

But you can cut the rug from under them by dumping it first.

At a stroke you stop being seen as a dour, brooding, paranoid megalomaniac (to quote one of your back benchers) . You become a man who listens. Who is sensitive about the erosion of liberty. Who is willing to take tough decisions. After all that £40m cancellation fee is a big hit to swallow. In the spirit of a New Broon sweeping clean, perhaps its time to consider moving a few of your accident prone and not entirely loyal colleagues to lower profile jobs. You know who I mean.

And you get to stuff the Conservatives.

Go on. You know it makes sense.

[ElFatbob]

Cancellation Fees and 'I've registered my interest'

Unfortunately, the figures don't factor in the projected revenue they hope to create from selling your data to the highest bidder.

Cayenne Turbo S, eh? Your choice of vehicle says everything about you.

Bawbag.

[S Taylor]

It's long, but worth a read.

So let's get this straight.

I have a passport. I have a birth certificate. I have a marriage certificate. I have a medical card with my social security number on it. I have a driving licence, an MOT certificate and a Certificate of Insurance. I have a television licence. I have several credit cards. I own a house and the local authority knows where I live because they keep telling me to cut my hedge (actually, they keep telling me to cut next door's hedge, but that's another story). I have a library card. I get regular utilities bills. I have an email address. When my picture is taken by one of these cute yellow cameras at the side of the road, the DVLA in Swansea knows exactly who I am and can have Mr.Plod waiting on my front door mat before I get home. I'm on the electoral roll, and actually have a vote for all the good it's ever done. I pay my taxes, and have had a job for most of my life so have also been paying my National Insurance contributions. I've been checked by the Criminal Records Bureau so I can work with children.

I went into a shop recently to buy a new computer. The young assistant asked my name, typed it into his computer and then told me where I live and what my telephone number is. He then spent the rest of the interview calling me by my Christian name, though I didn't know him from Adam. I had a telephone call the other day from a man in India who even knew my date of birth.

I am so deeply woven into the fabric of our society that I couldn't hide if I wanted to.

Yet now the government want me to have an Identity Card. Why? They already know who I am, where I live, when I was born, who I'm married to, who my children are, what my qualifications and employment history are, whether I have any convictions for speeding (I have) or for offences against children (I haven't), and probably the name of my cat and whether I pick my nose with the right forefinger or the left. So why do they need to issue me with an Identity Card?

To combat terrorism? Yes, I can quite see that any responsible citizen with an Identity Card would think twice about letting loose with a Kalashnikov in IKEA one Saturday morning. But your bona fide terrorist with a bomb strapped under his parka - what's he supposed to think? "Oi, wait a moment, I don't have an Identity Card. I'd better not do this"?

Perhaps it's to ensure that only people who legally live in this country can get the dole or go to hospital or draw their old age pension? But they already know all this stuff about me. They know, if they can be bothered to check their computer like the lad in PCWorld, that I've paid so much National Insurance and Income Tax over the years that I practically own the bloody National Health Service. Of course, if there's an asylum-seeking illegal immigrant terrorist who looks exactly like me, lives at the same address and happens to have laid his hands on my passport, birth certificate, marriage certificate, medical card, social security number, driving licence, MOT certificate, Certificate of Insurance, television licence, credit cards, library card, utilities bills, email address, Voter's Card, wife, cat and hedge, I can see where an Identity Card might be quite useful.

No, the real reason is because they can make me pay for the damned thing. There's the crunch - it's just another tax. I've paid all my life so I can get the medical help and pension I need when I'm old, and now they won't give them to me unless I pay a little bit more.

Well, think about this, Mr.Brown, old cock. By the time this all becomes a law that applies to everyone, I'll be really old. All I'll want from life is three square meals a day, a bed, a bit of telly in the evening and somewhere to crap. How about I refuse to get an Identity Card, you prosecute me, I refuse to pay the fine, and you have to send me to gaol? I imagine I'll get three meals a day there, a bed and a pot to piss in. And if I'm ill, the prison hospital will bloody well have to treat me whether I've got an Identity Card or not.

Get out of that!

[John Smith]

@ElFatbob

Met one of these developers on a train once. Said that in effect terrorism would be a thing of the past, once all till receipts could be cross referenced against people's NIR entry.

He had to be winding me up as only a moron who'd seen too much Spooks would believe it possible.

Wouldn't he?

“Cayenne Turbo S, eh? Your choice of vehicle says everything about you.”

Quite. Hence the thumbs up.

Of course if all the developers are signed up for this it will make them much easier to identify in future. I wonder if the senior civil servants who are pushing for it are as well.

Hmmm. All those responsible on one single database. How convenient.