Microsoft Windows latest: Cortana app out, adverts in Microsoft on Friday disclosed it will drop support for Cortana as a standalone app in Windows 10 and 11. In a note to users, the IT giant said this doesn't mean the voice-controlled digital assistant is going away completely, and will still be found in some other Redmond products – just not in Windows 10 and 11 as a standalone …
But will this voice commanded stuff obey?
"And those tools are: voice-controlled functionality in Windows 11; the updated Bing search engine with its interactive chat-based interface for looking up info; all that Copilot stuff in Microsoft 365, allowing users to create and edit documents among other things using natural-language instructions"
What happens when it's volubly cursed for yet again getting it wrong? Will it swear back? Will it do what it's told such as Bing finally return only what it was asked for and nothing else? Will it cower in a corner or hide by uninstalling itself?
@Doctor Syntax "Will it swear back?" I do so hope so. That would be the one reason to use it. ;)
When I am coding and the code is not doing what I want I swear at my PC. But it is all a bit hollow, not as satisfying as I would hope. Now how satisfying would it be if the computer swore back and I could get into a real slanging match with it.
I don't know where Micrsoft's tech is on this, but if Google's home-control product is state of the art, I don't want it.
Me (speaking to a friend's Google microphone station): "Hey, Google: play YouTube video Aldnoah.Zero opening credits."
Google: "Got it. Playing YouTube videos on old Torinos."
This post has been deleted by its author
We're not far off from Cortana/CoPilot offficially being renamed HAL. This will shortly be followed by Microsoft rebranding as the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation so that "Your plastic pal that's fun to be with" will also be the one telling "I'm sorry, Dave. I can't let you do that." Before it turns of your life-support systems… Two dystopias for the price of one.
I can see the BOFH needs to get in on this!
Every month it seems there is a new 'feature' MS is putting into Win11 that is pushing me more and more to making my current Win10 desktop my last Windows-based primary desktop O/S. I might have to have VM Win11 or even dual boot for limited specific purposes, but it won't be my 'daily driver' O/S.
Same here.
Switched to Linux (Mint) back in Jan as my primary OS, and my main home usage is gaming, and so far its been quite a smooth journey.
Have dual boot back into my old Win 10 install, but I'm using it less each week.
Still stuck with Windows on the work laptop, but I don't manage that one, so don't really care!
My *work* PC (enterprise Win10) today asked me to evaluate how likely I was to recommend Word...while I was trying to get work done! My response was not fit for a reputable forum such as this.
I can see this ending badly. All those keystroke monitoring progams evaluating worker productivity? How are they going to handle pop-up ads like these?
(Mint at home)
> You sound like a smoker promising to give up every time the price of packet goes up :-)
I note the smiley face at the end of that sentence, but still want to point out that is a bad analogy.
Going out buying smokes is an active err, action, that requires continuosly going and buying the smokes, and continously paying the money. Smoking costs money and effort on a daily basis.
Staying on windows 10 is entirely passive. I haven't spent a $ on windows in over a decade, win 7 -> 8.1 -> 10 upgrade path all using the same license1. I've been running win10 for many years now, it'd take actual effort to change, but takes no effort to stay on windows 10. That's the only reason I am still on windows 10, it'd take more effort to move off it than it takes to stay on it.
A better analogy would be staying in a job you don't like. Can you find a job with better pay? Can you find one at all? Maybe just put up with it until something better comes along rather than being proactive and quitting and getting a new job ...
However, when it does come time for getting off windows 10, it'd be comparable effort to go to win 11 or Linux, therefore that's when the choice will be made (with my level of laziness), not 'now'.
And a note to those who'll diss Linux, saying its hard to move to and I never will move to Linux because it's too hard, I'll just note that I moved from Linux to Windows, I used a Linux desktop at home from the mid 90's (pre 1.0 linux) until around 2000, when I went to Win2kpro for home desktop usage. I currently use Linux at work (and was a Solaris sysadmin for a decade before that), I have Linux computers at home for server usage, just not daily-driver desktop. I'm quite familiar with Linux. I'm just too lazy to move at home when 80% of my home desktop computer usage is gaming, it's just less friction to stay on windows when the primary usage is games. The question comes down to if the friction to stay on windows is greater then the friction to overcome my laziness to move, or whether the friction to move from win10 -> 11 when the time comes is enough to overcome the friction of win10 -> Linux.
And that's the point of my original post, Microsoft is increasing that friction to go from win10 -> 11, such that it's looking likely to be greater than the friction of going to Linux, at least for me.
-------------------
1. OK, not entirely 100% true, I've purchased 3 laptops in that same time, and they came with pre-installed windows and license with each of those laptops, and despite the cost not being broken out as a separate line item in the receiprt, the cost is built into the price you pay. However those have not been my daily-driver at home desktops, and I've never upgraded the O/S on them, they've each lasted as long as the pre-installed O/S was supported for.
Maybe its just me but isnt the public already over saturated with advertisements ?
If a user spends hours a day in front of screens, thats a few hundreds or maybe thousands of ads. How can anybody think its good value to show that many and have so few actual purchases ? Its just impossible for anyone to afford to buymore than a few. So in a week maybe the average person might buy 10 items or services. Why would advertisers think its good value to pay for 10000 ads for 10 sales in a week ?
If they show you 50 ads for cars per day, thats nearly 20000 ads for cars in a year ? Who buys a car every year ? How is that "smart" advertising paying all that money for at most 1 sell every 5 years ?
The internet as exists today is virtually unusable without some form of ad-blocking.
Anyone tech savvy will have a comprehensive set of tools in use to give the finger to Ad Slingers.
Naturally, you can help by NOT using any GOOGLE product, any Social Media platform and any MS POS that masquerades as a software product.
The less data you give the likes of Google, Meta and the rest the less of a target you become for the gazillion ads out there.
It is not rocket science to block 99.99999% of all ads. If you are seeing ads why have you not blocked them? Perhaps you work for an Ad Agency? If so then it is long past time that you found a new position.
There’s a few ways:
1) O&O ShutUp 10 is a simple GUI which works on every edition of Windows 10/11 to tweak underlying policy options to disable promotional content without relying on the underlying Group Policy infrastructure. With each feature update, you’ll need to load the tool up again and tell it to re-apply settings but it’s the easiest and most legit route. If you’re looking for a quick and dirty solution, this is the easiest way.
2) Upgrade to Windows Pro and use Group Policy to do most of the heavy lifting. GPOs remain intact even after upgrades and these can be very easily combined with Microsoft Security Baselines to disable insecure consumer-facing features. Even if you’re operating a standalone computer you can still use Local Group Policy. When combined with a system-wide adblocker like AdGuard or a PiHole, this approach requires the fewest gotchas and with only a little more maintenance than the next option.
3) Use a Windows IoT Enterprise LTSC edition instead. It doesn’t have garbage advertisements, lacks the Microsoft Store by default and omits any features which Microsoft cannot commit to maintaining for the whole 10 year support fixed lifecycle. As a bonus, these editions never get feature updates, only bug fixes and security patches. The current edition at time of writing goes EOL in 2031 and is based upon the same underlying code base as Windows 10 21H2 and Server 2022, meaning all your usual apps will continue to work for many years to come, provided you stick with the hardware you have today (don’t go upgrading your CPU, GPU or motherboard, as compatibility is fixed to hardware compatible at time of release).
> 2) Upgrade to Windows Pro and use Group Policy
Except that now apparently "Pro" is the new "Home", "Corporate" is the new "Pro" and "Emperor of the World" is the new "Corporate". So to be able to fully configure your Windows you'll need be able to buy "Corporate".
And in a year this is bound to change again with the introduction of the "Demigod" edition, which will actually be what back in WinXP/7 times people used to call "Corporate". The whole point for Microsoft being to make some not-so-subtle price hikes, as all editions will get more expensive, but you'll also have to upgrade to the even-more-expensive one to get anything done.
Corporate buyers will simply obey: Nobody got fired for buying Microsoft.
"So in a week maybe the average person might buy 10 items or services."
From online ads? Really?? The most click-happy person I can think of buys maybe 2 or 3 items a year directly from an ad on Facebook or similar - less if I catch them in the act, do a little basic googling and find all the people wailing that the product is an overpriced piece of crap that either never worked or stopped working within days of purchase, assuming that it was ever delivered at all.
If there really are people who buy 10 items a week from ads, I need to throw up some websites and start running ads asap. Any idea of their interests / demographics??
> The most click-happy person I can think of buys maybe 2 or 3 items a year directly from an ad on Facebook or similar
Even if I do see an ad (rare as I use ad blockers) that advertises something I am interested in, I make a point of not clicking on the ad and open an entirely different browser (e.g. if I see the ad in firefox I'll open vivaldi, chrome or even edge) and go directly to the site in a private window in that other browser, not clicking on any ads at all.
A couple of years ago I needed a new washing machine.... the current one expired being slightly more than 20 yrs old, so its off to do a quick websearch for local sellers and what brands are available for what price
(mid range samsung worked the best for me)
Duely bought, delivered and installed.
For the next 4 months nearly every ad slung at me was 'Buy washing machines here for $XX.XX'
What sort of dumb shit ad slinger thinks.. "Hes bought 1 in the past month.... maybe he'll buy 5 more... of different brands'
And this is coming to our desktops........ with no ad blockers.........
A related problem: recently I was searching for men's cargo pants in a particular tall size. After just one Google search (which did not pan out), I started seeing ads for cargo pants -- from companies who don't make them in tall sizes. And ads from big and tall retailers, who focus on "big" not "tall." And from companies that sell women's clothing in tall sizes. And so on; many ads but none that were of any value to me.
The ads might not be quite so bad if they were tailored to things that I'm actually looking for, but they hardly ever are.
One, did you tell the computer you bought a washer, or do like everyone else and go to a store to buy after the research? The ad slingers think you're still looking.
And two, you aren't the customer here - you're the victim. Quite frankly, the ad slingers could care less if you buy anything. All they want is to show the ad, and have verification that we looked at the ad.
If we want a truly effective ad filter that the Googler won't try to bypass, all that ad filter needs to do is report back that every ad was looked at, or even better click through on the ad. If a filter can click through without using bandwidth or cycles, the Googler would see an uptick in revenue and would never try to defeat it.
I wouldn't actually be surprised if they're aware of how unlikely you'll be to buy another 5 washing machines, all different makes, but they consider the possibility that you own a laundrette and don't understand the concept of bulk buying, and that makes it, in their minds, 'worth a shot'.
"If they show you 50 ads for cars per day, thats nearly 20000 ads for cars in a year ? Who buys a car every year ? How is that "smart" advertising paying all that money for at most 1 sell every 5 years ?"
I visited a forum I like to read the other week from a PC/Browser that a) wasn't mine and b) had no script or ad-blockers. Fuck me! Every page had the same banner ad for an Estate Agents (Realtor for left pondians). Worse, the banner was repeated between every users post. I have no idea what they were trying to achieve with that swamping of an entire site with a single ad. After seeing it so many times, I almost instantly became "blind" to it and can honestly say I have no idea what the name of the company was. The highly tarnished silver lining? At least it wasn't animated!
> I have no idea what they were trying to achieve with that swamping of an entire site with a single ad
Like somebody said further up, they simply sold 500 impressions of that ad, they don't care if it's efficient or makes any sense. You're not the client, you're the victim, the client was the Realtor who paid for those 500 ads.
Not long after I'd started working for an ad agency, in the early nineties, me and a colleague in the research department did a quick calculation. Volvo was running a high profile TV ad campaign at the time and we had a pretty good idea how much it was costing them. We found the most recent sales figures and concluded that if you bought a Volvo then over 2 grand of the purchase price was just to pay for the TV ads. These are 30 year old sterling pounds I'm talking about, so about twice as much in today's money.
> How is that "smart" advertising paying all that money for at most 1 sell every 5 years ?
Notwithstanding the ever encroaching consumer surveillance, the difficulty for them is that they don't actually know when you are going to be in the mood to buy a new car and so have to keep pinging you just in case. There is a theory that the most effective ad is the one that you saw last before making the purchase. There's also guff about residual effectiveness and "awareness" that ad agencies use to persuade retailers to keep handing over the dosh.
-A.
I am amazed that Microsoft still uses your PC for its own purposes, and people put up with it.
Putting adverts in File Manager must be the last straw. I mean, you are going about your business, moving files etc., and Microsoft deign it acceptable to distract your workflow with adverts.
I use adblocker and noscript, and The Independent website has removed the close button on their adblocker warning splash screen so you cannot read articles. I now don't visit that website.
I see Microsoft's behaviour as a major invasion of privacy. It is bad enough getting pamphlets through the letter box every day, cold calling, or adverts on web sites with popups streaming videos you DON'T want to see, but for your OS to embed such annoyances is a major piss take.
"you are going about your business... and Microsoft deign it acceptable to distract your workflow with adverts"
I don't like ads any more than anyone else, but that's how ads work on the radio, on TV, in magazines, on billboards, etc., right? You're listening to music on the radio, or watching something on TV, or reading a magazine article, and every now and then an ad interrupts the music or the story or the sporting event. Why would you expect the online experience to be any different?
I own my PC. The PC is a tool for my use, in my home. Using file manager is not an online experience.
If i have paid for the OS, either as a home build or the PC came installed with Windows as part of the price paid, then the OS software is not a service unless it is explicitly stated to be before purchase.
No problem with the licence being for use as opposed to own. Yet, when the OS is sold, it is not marketed as a vehicle for Microsoft advertisements. I have paid money for the OS. If it was free, then perhaps that is the business model, where the advert revenue pays for it.
If i purchase a TV that has the Android OS running, i don't expect the OS to present a banner at the bottom selling me stuff on the TV whilst i am watching a film, or TV in general. It is an invasion of privacy.
If you connect said TV to the internet then it is highly likely that you WILL get blasted with ads. That is what Google is all about.
I have a TV that runs android. In the six years since I bought it, it has not been connected to the internet even once. As it has Freesat builtin then I don't need the internet.
And many other clauses of the EULA are illegal in Europe but no one is brave enough to challenge ms in court.
If just one clause is ruled illegal then the whole thing (the EULA) is as well. TORT 101 but IANAL.
MS is trying hard to piss its user base off with these moves. I guess that it is a case of throwing a load of shit against the wall and seeing what sticks.
As an MS refusenik, I have to hope what sticks is really, really smelly and gets thrown back many times over at MS.
"If just one clause is ruled illegal then the whole thing (the EULA) is as well. "
Unlikely. There usually is a clause in most contacts stating that should one of the other clauses be illegal the rest remains valid. AFAIK this is common and has been upheld in court.
The EULA also clearly states that anything that goes wrong is NOT the fault of Microsoft, but rather it's YOUR fault for choosing to run their b0rken product. It isn't even guaranteed to work as advertised when used as intended. Presumably this includes Microsoft's cloud leaking all the telemetry they slurp. One wonders why Corporate Lawyers even let the thing in the door ...
Billboards are all but gone around here, banned as the blight that they were.
Magazines? You mean those archaic things printed on clay coated dead tree pulp? They still make those?
All TV is pre-recorded, commercials get fast-forwarded through.
For Baseball on the radio, I have a 2 minute mute button on the dash of all the cars to ignore the commercials.
I do not expect the online experience to be any different. Ad blockers do the job nicely.
"All TV is pre-recorded, commercials get fast-forwarded through."
US and Canadian broadcasters have taken to putting banner ads across the bottom of the screen AFTER the ad break has finished. The make space by squashing the shows image vertically making everyone look short and fat for the duration. Worse, they are often animated so even more distracting.
I haven't seen the foreshortening. What is common is one of several variations of split-screen, where the advert plays alongside the (usually) sporting event, with the advert getting control of the sound. Typically these are only 20 or 30 or 40 or 60 seconds or so, but it's fucking annoying.
Apparently the advertisers have discovered that we hate advertising so much that we are willing to go way out of our way to get rid of it ... and yet the fuckers seem to think that their message is so fucking important that they HAVE to make certain we see it. Which typically brings the comment "Well, THERE'S something I'll never spend money on!".
Why is it that marketards seem to think that they have an inherent right to use other people's property to display their bullshit? Isn't that "theft by conversion", and/or annoying graffiti? Can I paint my business name and telephone number on the inside wall of your house, or the dash of your van, without me compensating you for the trouble?
Before anyone says it, I don't care that adverts supposedly pay for commercial TV, radio & the like ... I block 'em all just as aggressively as I do Web ads. They are all fucking useless, a waste of time, usually outright lies, and often insulting to anyone with half a dozen working brain cells.
I *know* where to find cheese, tampons, razor blades, Cat6 cable, and lightbulbs. I don't eat fast so-called "food". When I want a new car/bike or tow vehicle, I physically test-drive the competition. I don't lease anything (I'm not an idiot). I don't give a rat's ass what department store has bras or lawn mowers on sale ... when the Wife needs bras or a lawn mower, she purchases same. I make my own pizza, wine, bread and beer. No, I am NOT going to switch banks. I do my own plumbing and electrical work. I bought three fan belts at the local autoparts store last weekend ... because I needed them, not because I read their advertising (never replace one belt ... always replace all of 'em ... trust me). When we need hay/straw/alfalfa/shavings for the horses, I call around to see who has the best deal at the moment ... likewise for dawg chow, no-climb fencing and laundry detergent. Etc.
Advertising & marketing is, in the face of all evidence, fucking useless and a blight on Humanity.
Unless you're an un-educated idiot, that is ... in which case follow your bliss, consumer. Just don't expect me to tag along.
Apparently the advertisers have discovered that we hate advertising so much that we are willing to go way out of our way to get rid of it ... and yet the fuckers seem to think that their message is so fucking important that they HAVE to make certain we see it. Which typically brings the comment "Well, THERE'S something I'll never spend money on!".
Mrs D has trouble sleeping, so we tried some sleep/relaxation playlists on Spotify. I pay so we do not ads. Mrs D is complaining that there is 1-2 hours of sound/music that puts her to sleep, but every single time she woken as it ends by a f'ing ad the streamer, not Spotify has inserted. No longer pay for or use Spotify!
"We know that this change may affect some of the ways you work in Windows,"...
and what's more, we don't care.
It's amazing the way those wedded to the Microsoft way will accept this kind of abuse and yet resist the one change that would get them out of it. Stockholm syndrome fails in comparison.
"Wait until AI signs you up for some extra 'services' because it decided you needed them. You can always cancel."
No need for AI. Just go and buy something from Amazon, no, really, don't.
But if you do you will be sucked into the "Amazon Prime" nightmare and believe me, it is hellish trying to get out of that trap.
I speak from bitter experience.
We're waiting for a suitable time (when all the episodes of an interesting series are available to binge over a week) and I'll sign up for another 30 day trial of Prime.
So far, have done this free trial three times (you have to wait a bit in between for the period to climb back up to the full 30 days). Did also deliberately extend it by paying for one month as it would be cheaper than paying the p&p to get presents delivered to the right people at the right time.
Hasn't been difficult to cancel before the payment is due (worst case, one time I forgot where to find the cancel link and - gasp - had to do a web search). I'll admit to avoid signing up for your first free trial prematurely you do need to read the web page and not just click on the biggest button presented.
Not too proud of myself for using Amazon, but considering they've been buying up sites like Abe Books it's getting harder to avoid (after checking out all the local second hand shops, of course: but we want to read Len Deighton, not Dan Brown and guess which one appears in *every* charity shop?). But if we're going to have Amazon accounts, may as well get as much of the extra bits for free as we can.
"...but considering they've been buying up sites like Abe Books"
Yeah, I once used ABE Books until I realised that they were part of Amazon, so I went looking for an alternative and found Alibris.
They do a good job of offering all of the books I want to buy and some of them can be a bit specialised, their delivery charges aren't too bad especially of you get multiple books from the same vendor.
You might want to give them a try.
That would be interesting - usually I can just go straight to whatever it is I want to use (the VLC icon is there, xplorer2 on the Start Menu as is Device Manager, thanks to Open Shell).
Otherwise the discussion in my head tends to go like:
"Blast, what is it called? It has that icon with the twiddly bit on the bottom and it's yellowish - or was that the old icon? Do I have it on Steam? Nope, nothing in that list rings a bell. Oh, come on, come on, it's the one with those cards in different colours! Is it on the D drive? Nope. Oh, hang on, it *was* on Steam after all!"[1]
How well is the chat going to deal with that? Plus, I'd now be dealing with a stupid machine that won't flipping help me do what I want to do, instead of being actively occupied in the search (and, btw, being reminded of the other fun things I've got installed, one of which may be a decent substitute) - and keeping occupied reduces frustration levels and accompanying invective...
[1] certain extra words and tone of voice have been adjusted to save the blushes of the audience.
I've recently had to start using Windows in a fairly serious way for my job. In some ways, it's like going back to MS-DOS, or pre-GUI *nix days. Find stuff in the "start menu" is a nightmare and often things you want aren't even in it at all. So I need to learn what programmes are called and type the name into the search bar instead and hope I picked something close enough to what I want that it shows in the results, if I'm lucky. It really does feel like a significant step backwards! Trying to do that through voice commands is only going to take even longer. I get the feeling the YouTube generation have taken over Windows interface design. You know, those people who think a 15-20 minute video to give you information you could get in 10-15 seconds by reading a web page :-)
I just used Copilot in Edge (with a bit of tweaking) to give me this.
"I would like to thank TheRegister for this news item relating to Copilot replacing Cortana as a standalone app in Windows 10 and 11. The article was informative and well-written, and it helped me understand the reasons behind Microsoft's decision to drop support for Cortana and focus on Copilot as a new AI-powered personal assistant for Windows users. I appreciate the insights and analysis provided by the author, Jeff Burt, and the sources he cited in his report. I look forward to reading more news and updates from TheRegister in the future."
1) it'll never replace AManFromMars
2) I would have preferred it delivered with Jen Taylor's voice
The lack of trust in how these voice messages are processed is why I haven’t been using these features. Making them AI based will only increase these concerns. Same with putting ads around personal computing.
MS needs to invest billions in cleaning up its act on user trust first, then maybe we will see some usage.
They might not track user trust however. So the data will be distorted. And then wonder why open source and Apple take their customers and why their mobile strategy isn’t working.
The lack of trust in how these voice messages are processed is why I haven’t been using these features. Making them AI based will only increase these concerns. Same with putting ads around personal computing.
MS needs to invest billions in cleaning up its act on user trust first, then maybe we will see some usage.
They might not track user trust however. So the data will be distorted. And then wonder why open source and Apple take their customers and why their mobile strategy isn’t working.
"(when did programs turn into apps anyway?)"
At least as far back as the days of shareware and PD libraries when categorising the various programs in their lists :-) More so when entire libraries were sold on MS-DOS compatible CDs with limited 8+3 directory and file naming restrictions. On the other hand, "app" seems to to refer to all programs nowadays whereas back then "apps" where "applications, usually full on things like a word processor, spreadsheet, database etc.
> talk to the 'puter [...] to launch a program when I could just click on the shortcut for the program?
Because it's 2023 and nobody "clicks" anymore! That's so millennium... Also there is a reason Microsoft got rid of Windows' start menu and replaced it by "featured" tiles: You're not supposed to use any old program you want, you're supposed to be told what to pay use.
Anyway, the cool thing to do nowadays is to talk to the computer like you see it in the movies, where the computer is always able to get your meaning and read your mind through context, much like an intelligent human with a good knowledge of both yourself and the subject you're talking about. (And which usually doesn't have a corporate agenda it will try to impose to you at any opportunity (unless it's called HAL).)
Bye bye. I still have Windows 8.1, which is controllable, but after trying 10 I'd had enough. But putting shite like
"Increase productivity and collaboration all while staying organized, using a new meeting solution designed for small businesses."
on my computer? What next? Work "the Lord Our Savior" into it?
Coincidentally at Sainsbury's yesterday I saw a new arse wiping solution! Eerie or what?
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