Microsoft will upgrade Windows 10 21H2 users whether they like it or not Those still using Windows 10 version 21H2 have about a month until support ends, which means there will be no more security updates or other measures after that. Their options essentially are to upgrade to Windows 10 22H2 or make the move to Windows 11, which would make Microsoft happy. Servicing and support for the Windows …
The most recent update that MS pushed out appeared to disable my AV solution and then enable Defender.
It may have been unrelated but I struggle to believe that a third-party solution worked on one then the next day after a Windows update, has strangely been turned off but worse, left the icon in the system tray so you actually think it is working.
Happened on a laptop and two VM clients.
The most recent update that MS pushed out appeared to disable my AV solution and then enable Defender.
So MS wrecked your security setup. Does that not fall foul of section 3 of the computer misuse act ?
That 'forced' MS login can be avoided (if you know how)
A - during initial setup, User = fuckoff, Password = microsoft, oops something went wrong, bingo, local user account.
2 - create local account after first MS one, don't have details, bingo, local account (delete MS one).
Note - check hard drive encryption, I don't like it so turn it off (most Home users are better off as data could possibly be recovered).
It's actually simpler than that.
1. Start new PC with network unplugged.
2. When in OOBE do a Shift-F10, which will bring up the command prompt.
3. Type in OOBE\BYPASSNRO and Enter.
4. PC will restart into OOBE again. You will be able to select "I don't have internet" and "Continue with limited setup" again.
Enjoy!
I realise it's less likely an issue here but, for the CLI-averse, Rufus will roll you a nice installation drive that auto bypasses the online requirement and even does a hands off install with an account name of your choice. It can also make a (somewhat) hardware agnostic W11 install drive.
I can vouch for how easy Rufus made it to install Windows 11 hassle free on a 15 year old Lenovo T400 laptop. It has no TP module V2, no UEFI, no GPT disk support. But it does have a dual core CPU and 8GB of RAM and a 500GB SSD.
The laptop already dual boots a 64 bit and 32 bit version of Windows 10 so it activated on the same licence key automatically - to Windows 11 Pro edition
Rufus had all the options I needed to make it painless.
Not that the experience after install is painless. Even though it was mainly for test purposes. Win 11 has hissy fits at most programs I have tried to install that work perfectly on the Win 10-64 22H2.
A few comments re cmdrklarg post,
Shift + F10 - just tried this on a fresh out of the box laptop (Asus), does not work any longer (think MS have killed it)
Can use Windows Key + R - launches the run dialogue, can't use command (cmd), can launch Task Manager (taskmgr)
Unable to run command prompt - this could be due the version being S mode (got message about MS apps only)
Task Manager - can see 'Network Flow', can end task, but it just relaunches.
Appreciate the other comments about Rufus, I am aware of this, but I'm addressing OEM builds.
So, I feel my solution works in all scenarios.
If MS have killed the shift + F10 trick, how do you setup Win 11 if you don't have a network?
They killed it for the home version.
Setup without a network may be impossible for unpatched home version.
The last Windoze 11 machine I set up for a client, I had to set up with MicroSloth account, create offline administrator account, delete MicroSloth account. After that, it worked. I could even remove the password from the account to give the client what they wanted, a computer that didn't have any local security whatsoever. They were thrilled, MicroSloth was thwarted.
To do the same on a modern Mac, open terminal, paste in "pwpolicy -clearaccountpolicies". You can then set a blank password.
I don't understand why these companies think they have the right to try to force users into security that they do not need or want. If it's a home user, assume they really don't want a password when they tell you they don't. Even I have cases where that's true, my kitchen computer has no access to anything interesting, nobody I haven't invited into my house touches it, even if it's stolen nothing of value would be lost. It has no password, because it doesn't need one and it not having one makes my life easier. And for business users, let the IT department make the call, it's not. MicroSloth or Apple's business.
This past week I set up 2 win 11 pro surface laptops with a local login. As per usual with Microsoft, making local user accounts was a ridiculously complicated process. It could simply be a choice during setup. But that would just ruin Microsoft's current efforts to make the OS a subscription based product.
who owns my computer again?
OK I am running 10 in a VM for testing and other things that *MUST* have Win-10-nic, and I do regularly force-run windows update for those few times I use 10, but still the basic attitude from THEM that "they own YOUR computer" is worse than irritating.
It reminds me of the days when autoexec.bat and config.sys would get "things" added to them whether you wanted it or not - because - whatever thing you just installed IS the ONLY thing your PC could POSSIBLY run, and therefore taking over and mucking with stuff is just fine. Seriously.
Certainly not you. You just paid for it.
It's going the same way as phones. Making it as difficult as possible to get anything other than Windows (or MacOS if you bought a mac) and TBH I think it was the fruit company who started this shit in the first place. Microsoft are just following suit, with a bit of extra MS evil thrown in.
Just like it is nigh-impossible to put anything other than Android on your non-Apple phone, and (completely?) impossible to put anything other than iOS on your piece of rotten fruit.
Meanwhile the official OS for your phone (and your PC, and your car) gets more and more surveillance-happy updates to please your employer, your government and your local spooks.
All of Tech development these days seems to have two goals:
1. To force users into the cloud and squeeze out Linux (and other open non-backdoored technologies that let indivduals escape the power of the technocrats) from the home/personal/workstation usage space, through the use of locked-down BIOS/UEFI Firmware, TPM chips, outright spy-chips etc. "Anti Theft" was the excuse behind Intel Management Engine, and now "Anti Cheat" is the excuse behind Pluton. How many Activision titles will shortly require a Pluton chip and/or no longer work in Wine/Proton once Microsoft take it over?
2. To develop shiny new features to please the BOFH at your government/corporation/"org" which will be installed on the plebs' computers whether they like it or not.
The tech companies are cracking down on privacy and the power of the individual to the extent where governents could one day criminalise customised operating systems as a terrorist tool to avoid surveillance.
This is basically what RMS & the gang have been saying for decades but we all had a good laugh at them and largely considered them crazy.
End-user digital freedom is now lost and we'll soon start paying real money for it without ever getting it back. Get ready for a 10$ per month for a Windows basic subscription. You know you want it!
"Computer is yours as you paid for it. Onto the other hand, Windows OS is not. You've only paid for the privilege of using it."
And that's pretty much it in a nutshell. If you paid for Windows then you probably haven't read the contract. And if you didn't pay for for it you definitely didn't read it.
Yeah and it was 16% in January last year.
https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-11-continues-its-ascent-16-pcs-converted-january-2022
Oh and it was 9% in 2021
https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-11-nears-9-pc-user-market-share-november-2021-according-survey
These numbers are like using a divining rod. They'll be consistent one day.
Something that doesn't seem to have been widely publicised is that it is not possible for a website to distinguish between Windows 10 and 11 using the User Agent string. Naturally there is an alternative which is vastly more complex and only available for the Chrome family of browsers, but it means that measurements of Win11 uptake need even more than the usual pinch of salt.
In addition, as much as Microsoft wants to claim that their business disruptions updates are popular, these figures do not reveal if they were voluntary or rammed down the user's throat.
Experience suggests that it's likely that some 90% of the installs were of the "rammed down the user's throat" variety by not leaving people much choice, or harassing them to death as only Microsoft marketing people can.
The vast majority of the steady uptick has nothing to do with OS upgrades, forced or voluntary. Most of them are through people buying new computers with Windows 11 either pre-loaded or a day-one update. Most people will just go with what's easiest instead of investing a lot of time or energy into remaking their system in their own image, even if they gripe about the change for change's sake.
Microsoft has earned the derision, but they know through decades of doing this that enough people will just move on that they don't have to care about the holdouts after a while.
Or more likely thing to happen is that you carefully leave your work PC on over the weekend and set it up to update on Sunday morning at 8am
Unluckily for you, building services has cut the power to the building for weekend work and wont restore it until 8.30am Monday morning, and you'll switch on your PC at 8.55am to finish up the urgent work/prepare for that 9.05am presentation to the manglement and your pc is going to spend the next 4 hrs showing a spinny little circle thing............
But then m$ has not reckoned with your mighty monday mood, and your PC finds itself accelerating towards the carpark at 9.81m/sec squared
Pretty much the only thing my version of Windows does these days is upgrade itself. It gets used once a week for a Skype call because Skype is what the other party is familiar with and the Windows version of Skype plays better with the camera and microphone array on my laptop. Almost every week Windows spends longer updating itself when I shut it down than the Skype call took. That can never be convenient.
""users can choose a time for the upgrade that is convenient to them"
No, we can't. We can choose a time, up to a few days in advance, that is least inconvenient. And, if we remember, we can keep putting that time back for a few days.
Chances are, I will have several applications running, along with numerous chromes, some of which will be incognito. When I inevitably forget to put the update back yet again, I will eventually wander back to my PC to find that it's cheerfully rebooted itself thereby losing everything in the incognito chromes and anything I didn't save before I left my desk for half an hour yesterday, or even the day before. It drives me nuts - the PC is mine, not Microsoft's, and it should reboot when I want, and not otherwise.
Oh no, you will take part in Microsoft's security theatre, like it or not.
The reason you have no choice is because it's not driven by your needs, but by Microsoft's marketing department who has worked out long ago that it's cheaper to pretend to do something about security and then bleat about it than to actually fix the myriad and apparently ever increasing amount of problems.
So you lose - you're just a user.
Or, as some company exec recently put it: "a customer is someone with my money in his pocket"..
Yup, offline. I only need one application on Windows 10. That application has already been activated, and from my point of view has no further need for being online. So the simplest way to disable the Windows and application phone-home behavior is to leave it/them offline. Forever airgapped also means I don't need any Windows security updates; also don't have to worry about a forced upgrade (my machine originally didn't qualify, but mysteriously that later changed....). Life is good. Typing this from a Linux box, obviously.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU - Set AUOptions (DWORD) = 0x4
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU - Set NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers (DWORD) = 0x1
Windows will now not reboot itself so long as you are logged in.
Does anyone know whether the registry tweaks will prevent this updating? Family member's laptop using some version of Windows 10 kept prompting about Windows 11 upgrade so, after searching, I found a registry tweak that locks the installation on a certain version. I was wondering whether this still holds true? Likelihood is I need to update to the latest 10 version to get security patches and lock it on that if possible. Using Windows 10 Professional (I think).
I went to the Windows Update settings and clicked the "See what's in this update" link. This is the change log for 22H2:
"The Windows 10 2022 Update (Windows 10, version 22H2) delivers a scoped set of improvements in the areas of productivity and management."
Thanks for that, Microsoft.
It also has another go at forcing you to login with a Microsoft account.
1. There are several views on this, most people using Windows will also be using Office so the likelihood is that they already have one. They are probably logging in with it anyway, it is just the OneDrive shite that pisses we off.
2. An account is required to use both of the other mainstream OSs that are out there so is it really such a big issue?
3. It is my device & OS, why the hell should I need a stupid login that adds not value and actually makes things more difficult.
And don't get me started on Edge, it is getting to be worse the IE & absolutely nothing is being done about it.
My Linux mint install doesn't require me to have any sort of an account anywhere.
I take it that you mean that your Linux mint install defaults to a local account, and that you normally hibernate the login.
It doesn't really matter though: the web is amazingly efficient at identifying users. I myself have a lot of identifying features turned off or not installed -- which makes me immediately identifiable as "that user who has most of the identifying features turned off"
We’ll be thankful they are updating to 22H2, I have had systems not getting W10 updates because MS have deemed the system suitable for W11 and has paused updates until the user clicks in the W11 update box. Obviously they intend users to click the install W11 box, if you click the not now box Windows update then goes away and finds all the updates it has ignored…
Also would not be surprise for some systems you need to have complete the OEM updates (eg. bios and other firmware) before updating to 22H2…
No they won't, if you sabotage the services so they can't. That's what I used to do when I suffered with Windows 10 (I used Windows for gaming back then, and took the free upgrade from Windows 7)
Windows Update service and Background Intelligent Transfer service. Windows re-enables them? (that seemed to happen to me once). Obviously this isn't recommended, but deleting their service registry keys takes care of that. Bugger their updates if they can't be trusted not to shove things down my throat. Microsoft's update breakage is of greater risk than the security vulnerabilities to me. Those are very unlikely to happen to me, whereas update breakage is quite likely, especially with a build upgrade like this. Those shit ass things used to re-enable all the things I hated and put back things I'd removed etc. too.
My life is now Windows free, pity I still have to deal with it on behalf of others. I haven't been servicing Windows computers much anymore, because I hate it too much now and things like updates at inopportune times when I need to reboot, makes on-site service onerous, but my parents do pretty important shit, investment LLC etc. and I've been keeping them on an older Windows 10 build. You know, the one the hardware and firmware was tested and certified for.
Since most security vulnerabilities are either through phishing or poisoned software upgrades insecurity is now quite easily managed. Anyway, I'd rather take a trusted AV vendor's word that they've got security covered than Microsoft's given MSFT's track record in that respect. (Sure, they'll fix that bug but the the chances are very high they'll add a few more while they're about it.)
But then the game these days is FUD and a bit of 'protect the children' thrown in, isn't it?
I get that there are always people who have this or that reason why they refuse to upgrade, and sometimes they're not pure bullshit, but in the grand scheme of things, getting people off of unsupported versions of Windows is a good thing. The amount of pain involved in the forced migration is still significantly less than the pain of dealing with massive botnets of compromised machines.
The moment somebody gives me back the Quicklaunch bar (the missing piece de resistance, since I can already get rid of the other cruft with Start11), I might just bow my head, grin vacuously like a Stepford Wife and resign myself to Windows 11.
Then again, seeing as they want to push ads into the OS... nope, nope, nope.
"Pinning" is absolutely not the same thing as the quick launch bar.
They are very similar, but they are not the same.
Quick launch icons are always present, in a (mostly) fixed ordering, irrespective of what programs may or may not be running. They launch a new instance or window of a program.
Pinned icons are partially tied to whether a program is running or not.
Wrong. You pin an app to the taskbar. It stays there. Calculator is seldom used on my system, but it is *always* the first icon right of the search bar / task view icon. Because I asked for that. Ooo, and you can rearrange the order with your mouse.
As arbitrary as Microsoft's take on usability is, at least you should learn what it *can* do.
Microsoft made much play of their statement that Windows 10 would be the last windows ever needed...then proceeded to browbeat Win 7 (and before) users into upgrading! I hope one day that there will be a viable Win7 frontend for linux or a BSD.. probably not in my lifetime.
Most of the games I was keeping hold of my Win10 Gaming system for now play very politely through Steam on my Linux system although I confess I have a Win10 VM for a couple of apps which are too much effort to setup in WINE or similar.
This may not be The Year Of The Linux Desktop but if you are willing to stray from the WinOS herd you will be welcomed with a comforting look'n'feel
Ah, but they didn't actually say that officially. A line transitioning from one topic to another topic by a single developer in a relatively minor presentation about tiles, notifications and action centre at ignite 2015 was seized on by the media and the context it was said in misrepresented to say the least. Because of the media coverage, this was then interpreted as Microsoft policy.
For a start, a developer presentation about interactive tiles is not the place to announce that this is the last version of Windows, Even MS would know this. The developer was actually talking about how Microsoft's culture had changed, up until windows 10 they wouldn't talk about what they were working on, only what they had worked on, but with Windows moving to a more SaaS model where they would be releasing new features for the current version going forward, from windows 10 they could talk about what was being developed. He definitely could have worded the bit about the 'last' version of Windows better but in the context it is in seems that he meant either 'latest' or was simply referring to a culture shift in the way Microsoft now developed windows. He wouldn't have any say over or foresight into future version numbers or branding after all.
Sure, other than saying that the comments referred to Windows being delivered as a service and that they weren't 'speaking to future branding' at the time; Microsoft never really corrected anyone about it or clarified the comment but why would they? I'm sure future windows branding hadn't been planned out at that stage and it was generating them a fair bit of publicity.
For context, here is Jerry Nixon's quote in full.
"So a lot of developers ask where our interactive tiles are, and they're in development is the answer. And that actually gives me a great opportunity to segueway to say that Microsoft is in a brand new state right now that it's never been in before. Here were are at build and ignite, right, and we're talking about Widndows 10 and all the cool things that are coming in Windows 10. But last year at Tech Ed, whenever we would talk about this, what was really happening behind the scenes is we would be talking about what we had built quite a long time ago but we wouldn't be talking about what we were building, right. All the stuff that's coming, because even though we were announcing Windows 8.1 we were all really working on Windows 10. Its sort of a bummer in its own way. But that's not what's happening today. Right now we're releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we're all still working on Windows 10. And it's really brilliant. So I can say things like, yeah we're working on interactive tiles and it's coming to Windows 10 in one of its future updates, right. That's really exciting for me to be able to say. Because it's new culture at Microsoft, that we are now not always thinking about what's not here today. So now we can talk about things in a really new way, and a much more open way than before."
PS. Windows 11 is, in my opinion, awful and they would have been better sticking with Windows 10 a bit more, or even better 7. Oh, and my main desktop runs Fedora Cinnamon, so defo not a Windows fanboi if anyone came to that conclusion ;).
Let's see (YMMV as to how good or bad a version is/was):
Windows 98 - Good
Windows ME - Bad
Windows XP - Good
Windows Vista - Bad
Windows 7 - Good
Windows 8 - Bad
Windows 10 - Good (?) Sort of.*
Windows 11 - Bad (?) I haven't tried it, and what people are reporting isn't making me want to.
Windows 12... oh, please be good, please be good.
* Had to go around MS to create a local user instead of being forced into using a MS account, added 3rd-party software to restore the old windows menu, etc, etc, etc. Why does MS (and a lot of other software maker) feel the need to modify the UI every time they bring out a new version?
Why does MS (and a lot of other software maker) feel the need to modify the UI every time they bring out a new version?
Because, when you actually think about it, that's' all they they have to differentiate versions. It's got to the stage where there aren't really any killer new features they can add to sell licences, bug fixes and patches aren't going to tempt people to upgrade alone but a shiny new UI, no matter how bad, will (in the consumer market at least).
Stages of Grief -- Windows Edition
Denial – Why do they need to make a new version of Windows? The current one is the best ever!
Anger – This new version of Windows is slow, bloated, and makes <change> that I personally don’t like!
Bargaining – Why can’t Microsoft just spend more time fixing bugs instead of working on new features?
Depression – I’m going to stick with this version of Windows until the bitter end and you’ll take it from my cold dead fingers!
Acceptance – Now that I’ve actually used it for a bit, I guess this new version of Windows isn’t so bad.
Good for you for wanting to give something new a go.
Try Mint or Ubuntu. iirc both will allow you to create a bootable USB and try the OS without needing to dick with your current drive at all (nice and safe).
Have a play and see what you think then settle on one you just happen to like the look and feel of. For now, ignore our systemd/GNOME/POSIX arguments: once you get comfortable with how *nix works you can take off the stabilisers and run what you want, how you want (which is where the passionate arguments really start!) - but cut your teeth on a mainline distribution like one of the above.
Welcome to the world of FOSS! :)
Or Kubuntu - the KDE edition of Ubuntu. Ideal if hacking your desktop to the style you want. Plus, and this is a killer feature for me, the ability to fish:// into any ssh enabled server. This gives you their filesystem in your filemanager allowing you to copy/cut'n'paste from one server to another or you own PC. This extends to KDE applications. Example fish://user@example.com:/etc/config/network will open up a file/directory. You only need to type once since you can add them to your file menu just like any other directory with a name of your choice. Then they just become another part of your PC's filestore though they are on another server and operating system.
Yesterday I had to hack the Openwrt config files on a router. Openwrt only provides vi/vim editors - the Linux equivalent of Edlin and a real headbanger for those not raised in the ancient traditions of life even before Linux. Instead I could directly display them in the Dolphin Filemanager. Double click and the open up on the Kate editor on my PC. Modified they are written back as though they were local files.
If you are a SysAdmin, take a look.
If they do bring out a Windows 12, I wonder whether they will return to there being a server version of each major client release, as was the case up until 2012 R2? Currently the last three all look like W10, and they aren't massively different from each other (although 2019/22 do have Storage Sense, which is very useful indeed for anyone with terminal servers).
The new features of Windows Server are nice. But they could give a touch up to a few exiting services, that look and feel like the Windows 2000/2003 Server versions. WSUS, Radius, PKI, to start.
Don't need massive re-writing, but the management interfaces could be made a bit easier. (I am not normally the one to complain about this, but fixed size dialogue boxes showing long lists of items that were obviously written 20 years ago when 800x600 was the max screen resolution, not 4k monitors and pixel density).
Just make the tools usable, not "artistic" bullcrap.
I haven't even been on 11 for a year yet.
Take a hike with the rapid release cycle already - every release breaks things and obsoletes hardware, and I'm bloody tired of pissing away money on replacing perfectly good hardware because Microsoft and their vendors can't get their driver issues straightened away for more than one release at a time... :(
lawyers letter to MS.
If people do not want their shitty/stinking updates isn't it their freedom of choice NOT to have them.
I hope this does happen. Then once and for all, we can legally determine who owns the PC. You, the person who paid for it OR Microsoft LLC.
Just say NO to MS and its forced updates.
But most of you do have a choice. (see ICON)
Let the user decide. But their EULA does not allow the user any say in updates or downgrades of the software, you have to accept upgrades and downgrades are only valid while Microsoft supports that version downgraded too. So even though you paid for the hardware, Microsoft can do as they please with it. When you pay $100 - $200 for software you should own that software, the user should have control of the software installed on their hardware. The have the ridiculous clause that you can return Windows for a refund or credit, doubt even Microsoft would issue a refund for an installed copy of Windows. Insulting!!
Doesn't make much difference to me. Windows has been attempting to forcibly upgrade for the last couple of years on my old PC. Always fails somewhere between 40% and 60%. Just stops spinning and sits there forever. Needs a hard reboot that recovers the previous installation. It would help if Micrrosoft could build better diagnostics to tell you why it has failed rather than some error code that could mean dozens of things. Googling just gives loads of possible solutions that don't work.
All three of my Widows 10 machines have not any updates for an awfully long time, ever since "they" managed to do something nasty to my graphics, seemingly substituting some sort of generic driver that only gave me a limited choice of resolutions, none matching the native resolution of the monitors. I eventually managed to roll back but I was not best pleased. As I have the "pro" version, I've used the Group Policy Editor to stymie updates but will MS be able to by-pass this? Update service is also disabled.
I continually see propaganda spewed from tech mouthpieces that should know better about the reason to upgrade your windows version to protect against malware etc. I've been running a windows 7 computer since it came out...previously I ran xp and skipped the other version and had little trouble during those years. The trouble I did have on Windows 7 was when I had it set to download updates automatically by mistake one or two times and it broke my computer both times. Now MS is at it again trying their best to force a new version down my throat. Steam is making me update to play games and now my banking is telling me to update because my OS. doesn't support the new version of Chrome. Screw the corporate industrial complex, I'm guess I'm finally gonna have to go Linux Mint or Zorin
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