Taiwan asks US if it could chill out on the anti-China rhetoric

Taiwan is keen for the US to scale back on its anti-China stance amid concerns that scare stories about the dangers of relying on chips made on the island nation are harming the country's business interests. According to reports, Taiwanese officials have engaged in informal discussions with their American counterparts in …

[TheInstigator]

Too late for TSMC

They are now starting to realise you don't get something for nothing - I find it funny that the US are now doing the same as China and requesting operational details!

It has got to the stage where Seagate have been fined for supplying hard disks to the Chinese.

I'm no expert but I'm not sure how many missiles use hard drives in them!

[TheInstigator]

I think the only way the US can ensure victory ..

Against all the baddies in the world is to pre-emptively strike all of them.

The British did it and started a glorious empire - it's only right that the US take up the mantle and save the human race from itself and ensure freedom, truth and democracy for all ...

[Kaufman]

Re: I think the only way the US can ensure victory ..

Even North Korea could turn the US into a glass parking lot. What do you think China and Russia would do to the US and allies? China's missile technology is also bleeding edge.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I think the only way the US can ensure victory ..

You've been downvoted because what you said is idiotic.

The Norks couldn't even get a single missile through US air defense. The response to them even trying would be a massive US & SK attack, ending NK as a state within weeks.

If even one bomb got through and hit ANYWHERE in the world, the response would be nuclear, ending NK as a state and as inhabitable territory within minutes.

[LastResort]

Re: I think the only way the US can ensure victory ..

So you want the US to take over the mantle from the British Empire? Really? And who exactly were your forefathers fighting in 1776 for freedom against oppression? Exactly, the very same British Empire. And you want to reimpose Brirish Empire 2.0 on others now? Do you even realise how insane that sounds? My tax dollars will not be spent on such foolhardy schemes.

[TheInstigator]

Re: I think the only way the US can ensure victory ..

@LastResort Do you not think this is the road that the US is embarking on now any way?

[martinusher]

Re: I think the only way the US can ensure victory ..

>And who exactly were your forefathers fighting in 1776 for freedom against oppression?

The oppression thing only happened in movies like "The Patriot". There was a justified complaint against the East India Company's trade monopoly and an unjustified complaint about having to pay taxes. (The Colonists were unwilling to fund even the Continental Army. The French effectively paid for it because they thought the Revolution was a way to harass the British Empire.)(I'm pleased that the whole freedom thing came back to bite the French Monarchy in the ass -- hard!)

[Lars]

Re: I think the only way the US can ensure victory ..

"I'm pleased that the whole freedom thing came back to bite the French Monarchy in the ass -- hard!".

This is a bit off topic but I would claim the French were very lucky, and would agree with me, as it made France a modern democracy something that unfortunately cannot be said about Britain.

[deevee]

The USA are just warmongers, always have been, always will be.

They are really worried that China is about to overtake them in every field, (in fact they probably HAVE overtaken them) including electronics and military, and are just beating their chests like a big baboon... Trying to get the rest of the world to boycott them in a vain effort to remain relevant longer...

[Dinanziame]

In this case, I feel a certain numbet of politicians are all too happy to pile on the Taiwan issue and ratchet up the rhetoric, to look good towards their constituents. Taiwan might well wish they would stop raising the issue. Taiwan is de facto a country, and it would be nice if it could be recognized as such, but some things cannot be hurried or forced ro happen.

[tooltalk]

Deng was wise to advise that China should "hide your strength, bide your time." Instead Xie the dictator got too greedy and ambitious and couldn't wait for the US to self-destruct itself in another 20-30 years.

[OP1A]

Thats naive.

You realize that US declaring sanctions would have been inconsequential if they werent a highly value added component supplier, Which they are and China isnt. So whats with the sophmoric anti-americanism.

[OP1A]

As for the war mongering. When you are part of a security alliance and in charge of an alliance that says "your fight is our fight" you cant deny a hard power response. Only the impotent and incompetent would continue to whine about warmongering when a superior foe is at the doors.

[TheInstigator]

The thing with the Allies is that they have kept their knowledge of warfighting up to date - I can't remember the exact statistics but the British Army has been involved in every global conflict in some shape or form for the past 20 to 30 years or something like that - barring a few years here or there.

The Americans are also catching up very quickly on that statistic - short of going pre-emptive nuclear, China will lose A LOT of soldiers to gain the knowledge that the Allies already have.

[DenTheMan]

So true..

The US scares me as much if not more than China.

The verbal proliferation if unchecked is certainly heading towards big bang.

And perversely, if the ultra far right win the next election the western alliance will probably end leading to even more uncertainty.

[Zolko]

Re: So true..

I'd add that Biden scares me much more than Xi and Putin combined: a senile corrupt warmonger who can't ride a bike and will happily explode "allies " infrastructure during joint military exercises, and whose drugged son runs around the world leaving laptops behind makes a dangerous president for a nuclear power.

[Dinanziame]

Re: So true..

We'll see how well you ride a bicycle when you're 80 years old. Those I know can barely walk ten minutes. And congrats on bringing his son in the discussion, as if he was relevant.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: So true..

The point is that he is pretending to be competent.

He isn't.

[Ideasource]

Re: So true..

Riding a bike is physically less intensive than walking.

You don't have to support all your weight, your momentum carries rather than being lost with every step to the ground, doesn't require near as much range of motion as walking does.

The gyroscopic effect of the spinning wheels balances the bike for you.

[Ideasource]

Re: So true..

What's with all the thumbs down?

Is there some kind some kind of collective grudge with physics and mechanics of motion?

I've used my bike many times to get around when my knee injured and walking was simply not feasible.

Even if you can't push down you may be able to pull up,

Even if you can't pull up you may be able to push down.

If you can't do either you can push forward.

But BMX handlebars on a mountain bike and a seat with proper structural support to to move you a little bit further back over the back wheel.

Enjoy proper back support and sitting up straight. This allows for full leg extension pushing forward, allowing the entire body to relax during the ride.

So many different directions of foot pressure work to apply cumulative inertia to a crankshaft via pedal, using a human foot and leg.

If you don't want to spin gears , you can install a centrifugal weight to to pull the derailer into each gear based on RPM, or just spin your gears manually with the gear shifters.

[Lars]

Re: So true..

@Dinanziame

Yes, I don't think Roosevelt was all that good on bikes either and why would that matter at all. Some should avoid bikes, at least in public, in my opinion.

I still have the occasional nightmare of Boris on a bike seen from behind, having seen that on TV. And I won't mention Trump.

[codejunky]

Re: So true..

@Dinanziame

"And congrats on bringing his son in the discussion, as if he was relevant."

How is it not relevant? The corruption Biden very much seems to be part of in his sons affairs is very relevant. Remember Trump has been hounded by impeachments and legal attacks for less.

[Lars]

Re: So true..

Biden certainly saved the reputation of the USA abroad and I think he has managed to bring back some sanity into US politics.

In fact I think he has done a lot more for the American people than I expected.

I wish him all the best.

[tooltalk]

Re: So true..

>> bring back some sanity into US politics. <<

I just love Biden's neocon foreign policy -- we already too busy in Ukraine; now Taiwan, you are next!

[OP1A]

Re: So true..

How cognitively challenged can you be ? Its the Chinese that hage declared their open intentions to annex a state that has existed as a sovereign entity for 70+ years. Americans said nothing until their own interests were on the line. So spare the woe is america b.s. As for the "far right" non of the far right are stupid enough to greenlight a military action in SCS. Infact they were the ones campaigning against any sort of military intervention. Look at American response to Russia, which political faction do you think is in charge of prolonging the conflict with a steady stream of arms and ammunition

[Zolko]

Re: So true..

Chinese that have declared their open intentions to annex a state that ... has existed as a sovereign entity for 70+ years

... doesn't exist. Not even at UNO, and not one that the UK recognises. China can't annex Taiwan because officially Taiwan belongs already to China.

[mark l 2]

Should China decided to invade Taiwan after the US has has enough home grown chip manufacturing that they no longer need to rely on chips made in Taiwan, as long as the Taiwan fabs were rendered inoperable before the Chinese could get hold of them, the US won't be interested in going to war over it.

The US are never going to risk American soldiers lives to protect Taiwan once its no longer in the interest of America.

[Ideasource]

But I think they would bomb Taiwan under some ridiculous shell excuse after declaring it a Chinese puppet, jumping the gun to gain advantage justified by propaganda. That is if the US no longer needed Taiwan.

I wouldn't put it past them.

[Anonymous Coward]

As in Ukraine

The US will back Taiwan until the last Taiwanese person standing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: As in Ukraine

lol - I'm sure they will

[John Savard]

Supposedly?

Of course the United States is attempting to prevent the People's Republic of China from being able to make its own state-of-the-art semiconductors because of how useful they are in all sorts of military equipment. Why should there be any doubts about its motives there?

Of course, as a nuclear-armed state, if the PRC does invade Taiwan, the options of the U.S. may be limited, therefore it is high time to get, say, 95% of the world's advanced semiconductor capability located in safe countries - not Taiwan, where China might attack, and not South Korea, where North Korea might attack. This doesn't have to mean just the United States. There's Europe. There's Canada. And, even closer at hand, there's Australia.

Of course, Australia is short of water, which chip production uses, but desalination is possible, and it could even be powered by the abundant solar energy in the dry parts of Australia.

[orphic]

Re: Supposedly?

The presumption in your comment is that "95% of the world's advanced semiconductor capability" was put in Taiwan by Western design. Every Western country had the opportunity to develop a semiconductor industry in the 1980s when Taiwan initiated its entry into the industry. The UK, Australia, Canada, and all of Western Europe could have seeded a semiconductor industry in the 1980s. They didn't mainly because at least in the UK, they couldn't be a*sed. They preferred to build up service and financial industries and mostly decried the manufacturing of goods.

So it does come across, as a bit arrogant, when people who couldn't be a*sed to invest in semiconductors now suggest that an industry in which Taiwan has invested $hundreds of billions over 40 years should be transferred to them. Most wouldn't even have the trained personnel

[Lars]

Re: Supposedly?

@orphic

It might surprise you but Taiwan had no means to do it alone at all, it was originally all set up by Phillips in Taiwan.

And as you know they are still depending on European companies for that to work.

[tooltalk]

Re: Supposedly?

?? Taiwan had investors from Phillips and TI early on to seed their chip / packaging industry. What are you talking about?

[Lars]

Re: Supposedly?

@tooltalk

I am sorry for the double "l" it should of course be Philips but I doubt that is the reason to your confusion.

You learn a lot by reading more.

So I am quoting this from the Wikipedia for you.

"In 1984, Philips split off its activities on the field of photolithographic integrated circuit production equipment, the so-called wafer steppers, into a joint venture with ASM International, located in Veldhoven under the name ASML. Over the years, this new company has evolved into the world's leading manufacturer of chip production machines at the expense of competitors like Nikon and Canon.

n 1985, Philips was the largest founding investor in TSMC[27] which was established as a joint venture between Philips, the Taiwan government and other private investors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips#History

And If you prefer to listen rather than to read try this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE58YisgFeQ

[PhilipN]

Re: Supposedly?

And yet closer at hand - Cloud Cuckoo Land.

[tooltalk]

Re: Supposedly?

Well, I kinda agree that Taiwan and South Korea maybe not the best strategic location for global chip production, but Canada or Australia?

[TheInstigator]

Re: Supposedly?

I think the days where you can separate the people from the country are fast disappearing. Why not make it about race and put all Chinese, Russian, Syrian, North Korean, Cubans etc in camps for their own safety & security until they learn the error of their ways?

It seems to have worked in the past quite well ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Off-the-wall thought

Britain could give all Taiwanese citizenship - bring them all here, along with TSMC - thus solving the British chip-making problem. And instead of sending our 21st century boat-people to Rwanda, send them to Taiwan! This could be a kind of like-for-like operation along the lines of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, only without seed pods. Then China can have Taiwan!

I may suggest this to my Tory MP. I haven't sent him anything batshit in a while.

[TheInstigator]

Re: Off-the-wall thought

Cruella will jump at the chance of giving them all British passports I'm sure

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Off-the-wall thought

The UK didn't give citizenship to HK people for the 150 years they were a British colony, so that doesn't strike me as something that could happen.

[Kaufman]

Americans shooting themselves in the foot again...

Taiwan will eventually be forced to side with China and pushed by the US no less. China is the second largest consumer of chips after Taiwan. The US is only half the customer compared to China and is looking to become independent of Taiwanese chip production.

[tooltalk]

Re: Americans shooting themselves in the foot again...

>> Taiwan will eventually be forced to side with China and pushed by the US no less. <<

Maybe Taiwanese don't really care so much about America-style liberal democracy. Maybe, just maybe, most Taiwanese are just interested in better economic integration with China and opportunity to make big bucks? The fact that Taiwanese elected pro-China KMT party in last local election seems to indicate that Taiwanese don't feel threatned by potential mainland invasion. Maybe the majority there want to join, rather than be forced, and side with China.

[Paul Crawford]

Re: Americans shooting themselves in the foot again...

I think most Taiwanese have looked at Hong Kong and how dissent was crushed there and would rather not have that. After all they can still talk about Tiananmen Square if they want, can you?

[Aseries]

China and US need each other.

I fail to see the need for aggressive rhetoric aimed at each other except for selfish political purposes. China and US economies are interlocked in a death grip. US economy needs the consumer goods and loans. China needs the factory orders and investments in US Treasury bonds. Taiwan is in the middle and thriving since the 1950s. A shooting war will upset a lot of applecarts with no good prospects for an outcome. China really has nothing to gain except ego points. A destroyed Taiwan is useless to everyone. Perhaps with time Taiwan will become the Switzerland of the East. with chip foundries instead of banks.

[DustFox]

the cowboys will pnly cause trouble as usual

Taiwan is china and china is Taiwan, same nation same language same history, in fact Taiwan is more Chinese than anything Chinese. The U.S just wanted to cause trouble and acting like spoiled kid all around the globe wanting only her way. Taiwanese are foolish to think the U.S will help them at any invasion. All they will offer is take over their tech and evacuate their engineers and confiscate Taiwan wealth

[Lars]

Re: the cowboys will pnly cause trouble as usual

Talking about history, it all started by "Taiwan" not wanting to be part of communist China.

[Zolko]

Re: the cowboys will pnly cause trouble as usual

Taiwan not wanting to be part of communist China

would you please provide proof of that ?

[Lars]

Re: the cowboys will pnly cause trouble as usual

"would you please provide proof of that ?".

I suggest you read Chinese history.

[TheInstigator]

Re: the cowboys will pnly cause trouble as usual

I think the situation with Taiwan and China is a bit like Ireland and the UK

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: the cowboys will pnly cause trouble as usual

China didn't invade Taiwan and hold it for many years while exploiting the people who had to fight the Chinese with any means available. China doesn't still hold a chunk of Chinese territory and need to GTFO.

Sure, China wants to conquer Taiwan. But the English actually did it to Ireland.

Not the same at all.

(And the only good thing that's ever gonna come out of Brexit is a united Ireland.)

[six_tymes]

Current day Democrats

have become the largest crime syndicate ever. They are Warmongers. More than any other political party in history.

Do you not recall Nancy Pelosi recently visiting Taiwan? The Taiwanese know she is corrupt, and that is why they protested her visit. Wherever she visits WAR occurs months or just a few years later. Look what she helped start in Ukraine. Putin would have never invaded had the Minsk held as promised, AND Nato didn't threaten Russia's borders.

[VicMortimer]

Re: Current day Democrats

Every Rethuglican accusation is a confession.

And you're not fooling anybody, Ruzzian shill.