back to article Chipmakers threaten to defect to US, EU if UK doesn't get its semiconductor plans sorted

UK chipmakers are threatening to move their operations to the US or Europe if the British government doesn't get its act together and release its long-awaited semiconductor strategy. CEOs of several UK chip startups – including Pragmatic Semiconductor, IQE, and Paragraf – expressed frustration that the UK government had failed …

  1. AMBxx Silver badge
    Happy

    Meanwhile

    ARM have just announced that out of 500 new jobs, 350 will be in the UK.

    It's not all bad news.

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Wait 'till it happens before celebrating.

      1. NoneSuch Silver badge
        Coat

        Smart money got out of the UK two years ago and is waiting for the inevitable government offers of tax breaks for 10 years to return.

        "Come to the UK. Much more paperwork overhead, collapsing industries, confused regulations, Visas needed for travel, lack of political responsibility, rising prices across the board and rampant unemployment."

        Not the greatest slogan, but bloody accurate.

    2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: Meanwhile

      Go to glassdoor and see how much they pay. It's a joke.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Meanwhile

        Bollocks, ARM pay extremely well, and the 'additionals' over the past few years have been excellent. I suggest you get a better source than whingey ex employees.

    3. Julian 8 Silver badge

      Re: Meanwhile

      don't manufacture though do they

    4. Tron Silver badge

      Re: Meanwhile

      350 jobs. A new call centre?

  2. deadlockvictim

    Ireland

    To what extent is Ireland benefitting from Brexit?

    With the likes of Intel are already running several fabs in Ireland, I assume that the EU mentioned in this article would be Ireland.

    Whenever I hear Irish government ministers or representatives of business groups talk about Brexit in Ireland, it seems only to be bad news.

    Has Brexit been good to Ireland?

    1. AMBxx Silver badge

      Re: Ireland

      Ireland has always done well due to very low corporation tax. UK is increasing Corp tax so Ireland will benefit from that.

      Question is what will happen in Ireland should the EU decide to have a minimum level of corporation tax?

      1. anothercynic Silver badge

        Re: Ireland

        Ireland will continue to do business... It's countries like the Netherlands and Luxembourg that will have to consider their options, given their history of being part of 'sandwiches' (Netherlands) and sweetheart tax deals (Luxembourg).

      2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        Re: Ireland

        The minimum is (or will be) set at 15%. So not much changes.

      3. Lars Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Ireland

        And the answer to "should the EU decide to have a minimum level of corporation tax" is that Ireland then agreed to have a minimum level of corporation tax.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ireland

        The EU simply needs to put together a new treaty including tax competency and get it unanimously adopted. That would include a referendum on the treaty in Ireland's case.

    2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: Ireland

      Ireland implements Trussonomics to an extent and that's why it's winning. Nothing to do with Brexit.

      1. captain veg Silver badge

        Re: Trussonomics

        > Ireland implements Trussonomics to an extent

        The expression "to an extent" clearly includes the value zero.

        -A.

      2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: Ireland

        If Ireland want to implement Trussonomics, Ireland is very welcome to her

      3. James Anderson

        Re: Ireland

        Many years ago the government of Irish Republic made a deal with its voters.

        We will get you jobs but you will pay a sh*tload of tax.

        So low or know taxes on companies but painfully high taxes on wages and goods.

        This has worked well for the country but only works when very few countries play the game.

        This is not Trussenomics but a very hard headed and well thought out strategy.

    3. NoneSuch Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Ireland

      "Has Brexit been good to Ireland?"

      Brexit has benefitted EU countries tremendously as the UK becomes the first country to invoke economic sanctions on themselves.

    4. TVU Silver badge

      Re: Ireland

      "Has Brexit been good to Ireland?"

      Yes, very much so. For example, AstraZeneca's new $360 million manufacturing facility will be built in Ireland and not the UK. Various reasons apply there including lack of government action on coherent strategies and incentives to invest (also applies to semiconductors + any other advanced industry), higher taxes (can't reduce them now given the huge Truss/Kwarteng stuff up) and all the bureaucracy and extra customs tariffs that now apply thanks to Johnson's very hard Brexit.

      There's also more north-south trade going on on the island of Ireland and more investments have come in including financial ones. For example, arch Brexit hypocrite Jacob "Rules are for the little people and the poor" Rees-Mogg set up a new Somerset Capital office in Dublin to ensure that his own financial investment business was not disadvantaged by the hard Brexit that he loves and approves of so much.

  3. Lil Endian Silver badge

    Farcical

    I'm certain that bad news from the UK Government would be better received than none. Given any policy would permit an organisation to decide to weather it out and stay, giving them nothing promotes only relocation - decision makers cannot work with nothing.

    The incompetent indecision makers forming the non-partisan committee handling this are a farcical disgrace. I hope they're happy with their pay-offs at the expense of the UK's image (like they care). The Carry-On crew would've done better >:|

  4. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "aiming to publish the forthcoming UK semiconductor plan as soon as possible"

    Meaning : as soon as they've found a way for (at least) one of their buddies to get his snought in the trough.

    1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: "aiming to publish the forthcoming UK semiconductor plan as soon as possible"

      or probably removed all references to "fish and chips" (because you can't expect people with an Eton education to understand technology)

    2. TheProf
      Headmaster

      Re: "aiming to publish the forthcoming UK semiconductor plan as soon as possible"

      Ouch!

      I think you may have inadvertently misspelled 'snout'.

      Easily done.

      1. JassMan
        Headmaster

        Re: "aiming to publish the forthcoming UK semiconductor plan as soon as possible"

        T 'snought like a good typo t' cheer us all up in these dark days of eating gravel from t' bottom of t'lake after getting up before we've gone t' bed.

  5. Potemkine! Silver badge

    If those businesses move to EU or US, they will have an easier access to a bigger market. It makes sense to move.

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      @Potemkine!

      "If those businesses move to EU or US, they will have an easier access to a bigger market. It makes sense to move."

      Shouldnt think so as chips are a global business. They would get access to more tax payer money from the EU or US. One of the amusing situations with fabs is the UK could buy chips paid for by the US and EU (as we all have with Asia).

      1. captain veg Silver badge

        Re: @Potemkine!

        The markup on semiconductors is huge. When you're buying, that what you're paying for.

        It would be nice if you stopped trotting out this crap.

        -A.

        1. Nifty Silver badge

          Re: @Potemkine!

          22%, considering the investment vs risks?

          https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ON/on-semiconductor/profit-margins

          Yes, stop trotting it out.

      2. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: @Potemkine!

        Shouldnt think so as chips are a global business.

        But the UK is not a member of the GU, Global Union single trading bloc. It’s a member of itself only since it decided to sit in the corner on its own.

        When will you face up to it?

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: @Potemkine!

          @werdsmith

          "When will you face up to it?"

          Hang on. Are you saying the UK doesnt buy chips from abroad? Do you believe the UK doesnt trade? Go on how delusional are you?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @Potemkine!

        >> One of the amusing situations with fabs is the UK could buy chips paid for by the US and EU

        Fabs do not sell chips. They sell wafers. Not knowing this pours cold water on a lot of your business theories based on that misconception.

  6. Lil Endian Silver badge

    We reached out to Arm Holdings – the UK's largest chip design company – for comment, but had not heard back at the time of publication.

    Maybe they're fed up with those that reach around all the time. Perhaps contact them and ask.

    1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Or even (gasp) just talk to them without any backhander requirement.

    2. werdsmith Silver badge

      “reached out” …. Vomit.

      Unless you are one of the Four Tops, this always sounds ridiculous.

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

  8. nematoad
    Headmaster

    No, no, no.

    The Center for Policy Studies

    Wrong!

    It's The Centre for Policy Studies. British institution, British spelling.

    If you don't believe me see here.

    This International English thing is one thing. It's your publication and you can mess with it as you see fit, but at least have the courtesy to give things their proper spelling.

    One size or nomenclature does not fit all.

    1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: No, no, no.

      "Center for Policy Studies" is based on American spelling while "Centre for Policy Studies" is English, but based on French and Latin language spellings so is this a Brexit feature? After all lots of changes were promised but never fully documented, or even happened.

    2. Korev Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      Re: No, no, no.

      > This International English thing is one thing.

      International English is much nearer the Queen's English than the nasty form that they downgraded this website to

      1. seven of five

        Re: No, no, no.

        Ahem... King's English

        sorry.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: No, no, no.

          I thought the royal family were German.

          The so-called House of Windsor was originally called the House of Saxe-Coburg Gotha Battenburg. Which isn't very English-sounding.

          1. anothercynic Silver badge

            Re: No, no, no.

            The king and his mother were both born in this country, that makes them by definition British. Both are also the first and second generations of 'born' Windsors, which *also* makes them British.

            Get over the Daily Mail-esque 'oh, but they are German really' shtick already. It's getting old and tired.

    3. Zippy´s Sausage Factory
      Devil

      Re: No, no, no.

      Irony: there's probably also an American "Center for Policy Studies" and the only difference in the name IS the spelling.

    4. Captain Scarlet Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: No, no, no.

      *sips tea angrily*

      How do you grill cheese on a frying pan?

      What do you mean its a skillet, its a frying pan!

      *insert Bottom frying pan gag*

      1. Snowy Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: No, no, no.

        The top answer from google is Skillet is an American Christian rock band formed in Memphis, Tennessee, in 1996.

    5. MJI Silver badge

      Re: No, no, no.

      The yankification of ElReg is really putting me off, I am on here a lot less than I used to be.

      Spell the names of British institutions PROPERLY!

      Would not take much more to be honest to abandon the site fully.

    6. Lars Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: No, no, no.

      "One size or nomenclature does not fit all.".

      And who are you referring to here.

    7. captain veg Silver badge

      Re: No, no, no.

      Actually it doesn't matter whether the spelling is considered British, American or Martian. The body itself determines how its name is spelt, not the reporting organ. And in this case it got it wrong.

      -A.

  9. IGotOut Silver badge

    Clarksons Farm

    Love him or hate him, a section of one his latest shows summed up this government (in that case related to farming)

    To summarize.

    Government: "We're going to fund farming similar to the EU"

    "So what do we need to grow / do to get this funding?"

    "We'll let you know"

    "But the funding is about to run out, we need to know now"

    "You need to <insert meaningless and completely vague description>"

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Clarksons Farm

      That's the clever part. All the money that was paid to the Eu, including the rebate that was never paid, is going to pay the NHS 350/month.

      And all the money that was paid to the Eu is going to fund farmers, and fisherpersons and replace Eu science funding and replace Eu funding of deprived areas.

      Once we get Brexit done, we'll gave the sovereignty to pay the same money out to any group that demands it, and votes for us.

      1. cyberdemon Silver badge
        Devil

        @YAAC

        You forgot the joke icon. At least I really hope you did

      2. DuncanLarge Silver badge

        Re: Clarksons Farm

        > fisherpersons

        Fishermen.

        It simply sounds ridiculous the other way. Same with postmen, which can be male or female.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Clarksons Farm

          I'd hazard a guess that this is one of those occupations that is 99.99% men as it is hard work, crappy hours, nasty conditions and would generally mess up makeup, hair and nails.

          Equality/equity but only in the nice office jobs with long lunches.

          1. sgp

            Re: Clarksons Farm

            Ever been to a hospital? Noticed how all nurses doing hard work, crappy hours, [in] nasty conditions were male?

            Right.

            1. MrReynolds2U

              Re: Clarksons Farm

              On a related note, Nursing is one of the professions where there are different titles for males and females in the same role.

              i.e. Sister is, I think, known as Charge Nurse.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Clarksons Farm

              Thankfully I've had very few reasons to inflict the NHS on myself. But those are far from crappy conditions. What is the workplace mortality for hospital staff? Do they run the risk of going on shift and never coming back? Drowning, electrocution, falling, hazardous chemicals, fires, asbestos...

              Nursing is generally underpaid, long hours and far too much cleaning up barf and wiping of bums but you're not going to get washed overboard by a rogue wave.

              1. Stork Silver badge

                Re: Clarksons Farm

                Don’t know about UK, but I remember a statistic from a few decades ago indicating that nurses were more likely to suffer violent assault at work than police officers. In Denmark.

                1. Mike007 Bronze badge

                  Re: Clarksons Farm

                  According to Google Danish police are armed, whilst nurses are not.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    >Where's the Brexit bonus?

    We'll let you know when we actually get the Brexit we voted for.

    1. Freezus
      Facepalm

      Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

      Part of the problem is that there was/is no clear consensus on what "Brexit" means. It means something different to each person that voted for it and, from the look of the last few years, every person that's attempted to implement it

      1. Arthur the cat Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

        there was/is no clear consensus on what "Brexit" means.

        "Brexit means Brexit". Wasn't that official policy, or did it change with each PM?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

          Nobody can be told what Brexit means, you have to experience it for yourself. Vote for the blue rosette and see how deep the rabbit hole goes

          1. Arthur the cat Silver badge
            Unhappy

            Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

            Nobody can be told what Brexit means, you have to experience it for yourself.

            I see, it's my fault because I'm experiencing it badly. Must think happy thoughts … Must think happy thoughts … Must think happy thoughts …

            Nope, not working. Still a shitstorm.

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

              Yes, you got it in one. You are experiencing it wrong. I think Tim Apple said that :-)

        2. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

          it changed twice a day under Johnson, if I am not mistaken

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

        > It means something different to each person that voted for it

        That was by design. There were countless lies (frequently and blatantly contradictory) that let each person pick-n'-mix their own personal fantasy of what Brexit was.

        Of course, all this would already have been obvious to anyone paying attention to- or, more damningly, not wilfully ignoring- the evidence all around them.

        And, of course...

        > ...there was/is no clear consensus on what "Brexit" means.

        Exactly. That in itself was why voting Leave in 2016 was such a blindlingly stupid idea.

        Whether or not one could (supposedly) argue that a particular plan or vision for Brexit might have been a good idea, going ahead in the absence of any cohesive plan was unqualified stupidity regardless.

        Anyone who wants to argue that this isn't the Brexit they voted for deserves everything they got. This isn't the Brexit they wanted to think what they were voting for.

        But they got exactly what they did vote for- a pig in a poke.

        1. Nifty Silver badge

          Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

          My personal fantasy was that a European court would no longer hold sway in the UK, and our local parliament would make the rules about (though not necessarily stop) immigration. Muchly satisfied. The blackmail/retribution aspect blowing back from EU hubris? Comes with the territory.

          1. Richard 12 Silver badge
            Headmaster

            Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

            I note that Parliament is not making said rules, it's Tory ministers who are using Henry VIII powers to run roughshod over Parliament.

            You didn't get any of your fantasy, and at some point, you'll realise this.

          2. Intractable Potsherd

            Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

            Why?

          3. elaar

            Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

            "and our local parliament would make the rules about (though not necessarily stop) immigration"

            How would making "rules" stop immigration when you pee off the French and we're no longer able to use Dublin Regulation? All we've accomplished is less skilled immigration (which we desperately need in certain sectors) and more asylum seekers crossing.

            Besides, the laws our parliament create still have to be ratified by our great House of Lords which is packed full of unelected cronies, isn't our democracy fab!?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

              The Dublin regulation never worked. The other countries just waved them through. It was reliant on the person actively seeking asylum in a particular country rather than forcing them to seek asylum in the first EU country they entered. So if they never applied in a country the Dublin regs did not apply. Coupled with the fact most spoke English as their 'European' language the other countries just couldn't be arsed dealing with them and let them through.

              And not at all helped by all the NGOs ferrying people from North Africa to Italy etc. and basically saving the people smugglers a lot of effort.

              1. GioCiampa

                Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                "The other countries just waved them through"

                As is their right under international law, where the asylum seekers state where they want to go.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                  Exactly, which is the fatal flaw in the Dublin regs.

                  Like most things politicians do it makes bugger all difference to what is actually going on but everyone seems to feel happier as 'something has been done'.

        2. Will Godfrey Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

          Oi! I didn't get what I voted for. I voted to stay in the EU

          1. DuncanLarge Silver badge

            Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

            > Oi! I didn't get what I voted for. I voted to stay in the EU

            When I was 12 in 1993, nobody asked if I bloody wanted to be in it. I've been waiting all this time to finally get ujs out.

            Just look at what the EU do, like with Ukraine and covid. You really want to be a part of that?

            Back in the 70's they (the eupoeans looking to create this long term EU project) knew that we shouldnt be in it. They said NO!over and over, even after we saved their asses, again. They knew we were not compatible, cultures too different, legal system,s too different, roman vs saxon law. We persisted and they let us in to shut us up. We benefited greatly, we needed them after the dire state WW2 left us in, but we never fitted in, always the outlier, the complainer, the special case that needed opt-outs and vetoes. In 1993, we should have ditched pound sterling for the Euro, but we didnt. As a kid at the time I was pretty scared about that, I actually walked to school worried as the adults played with my future. "kill the pound?", even me at 12 knew that was mental, and we managed to keep the pound.

            The EU was a long term political project to control warring eurpoean countries who had ONLY JUST switched away from communism, socialism and dictatorships. We on our little island were far ahead concerning this democracy thing, and we built it on saxon law. This means law COMES FROM THE PEOPLE, from below upwards. The people are able to affect law, via the courts. Its called a precedent, if I'm found not guilty due to certain circumstances or due to laws clearly not being fit for purpose anymore, that affects any other cases to follow mine. The EU however is built on Roman law, which is the direct opposite. Law is created from the top (from the emperor) and applied downwards onto the people. The people have no power to change it, it must be changed by the top and only the top (the unelected EU commission in this case). The courts can find me innocent yes, but no precedent is created to find those that follow innocent. Someone else who follows me in a similar case can be found guilty simply because the jury and judge were different that day.

            Our cultures and systems were incompatible. BUT you ask, why not change it? Well thats what we did for several decades and, well we couldnt do a damn thing. Dont forget that for several decades this country elected UKIP to represent them in the EU, over and over again we voted UKIP. Now you could argue thats because the only people who bothered to vote were those trying to exit or change the EU. Possibly, turnout was low for EU elections, way lower than ours, so if tahtw as the case, taht Brexit came about because we had UKIP voted in for decades... who is to blame? I argue its yourselves. UKIP won each time and Brexit was the result.

            So stop moaning.

            Stop trying to rejoin (it wont be a comfortable process or membership, no vetoes next time and, no pound sterling, it will be the Euro).

            Stop groaning about Breeeexiiiiiit cased this or that.

            Elect a government that will take the benefits of brexit and actually do something with them.

            Otherwise, rejoin, better save up those Euro's!

            1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

              Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

              "Just look at what the EU do, like with Ukraine and covid. You really want to be a part of that?"

              Yes.

              BTW, If anyone is a massive moaner, it's you. And you're not even that old.

              You think Brits are oh-so different and special? Get a grip.

              Brits are only special ins their ability to cap-doff and suffer silently being trampled by their toff overlords. What a quality to have.

            2. Nifty Silver badge

              Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

              Very well put. And I'm noticing that this usually sensible forum is eerily packed with people emotionally attached to the EU.

              1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

                Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                "people emotionally attached to the EU"

                Emotionally attached to freedom of movement, and no tariffs and other expensive and time wasting stupidities?

                That's just being rational.

      3. DuncanLarge Silver badge

        Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

        > Part of the problem is that there was/is no clear consensus on what "Brexit" means

        To leave the organisation known as the EU.

        It wasnt hard. The problem was the EU wanted to use it as a way to make an example of a leaver, to make sure nobody dares leave again.

        Thus all the commotion about borders in Ireland, fishing rights etc. All instigated by the EU and a conservative government headed by a PM who was a remainer with no negotiation skills. Once she was replaced we got a clown who cheered everyone up, who seemed to have the balls to do it (brexit) but turned out he just wanted the kudos for "getting it done". Of course he had many other sucesses and failures and did some great things, but once he got the brexit stamp he could show off his (and his parties) interest in actually making it work and doing stuff just, evaporated.

        Covid helped massively as it halted Brexit in its tracks. Now after coming out of lockdowns and trying to pay off covid debt in the Sunak way, which is to pay it off FAST instead of slowly, well there is barely any money/time or effort to make Brexit actually work.

        We need a brexit government. The current one and the typical alternative (labour) is looking to find a way to nullify it. The EU will have won.

        1. John H Woods Silver badge

          Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

          More Brexit fantasy. Not in the club, can't demand the privileges of the club. It's not hard.

        2. Potemkine! Silver badge

          Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

          What a huge load of BS.

          In or out, EU is still used as a scapegoat by all these nationalist nutheads. No surprise, they need one to explain their absolute failures and shift the blame to somebody else.

          UK out of the EU is a great news for the EU. When member that made everything possible to block any progress in the Union, who opted out of most of the initiatives and was a US trojan in the EU decides to leave, it's a good thing for all the other members.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

            "US trojan in the EU"

            Better to be that than the Russian trojan in the EU.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

              Or a Russian asset in the UK, eh Other-AC?

          2. Michael Strorm Silver badge

            Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

            > "In or out, EU is still used as a scapegoat by all these nationalist nutheads"

            The EU was used for decades to distract from the failings of Westminster. As someone noted, Brexit made the fatal mistake of killing the scapegoat. Now they want to pretend that the Big Bad EU is still to blame even after the UK has left.

            But let's remember we were told that it was the UK who held all the cards and the EU was the one who would be desparate for a deal, rolling over and doing anything the UK demanded.

            If, as claimed, the EU is even in a position where it has the luxury of being able to (supposedly) penalise and bully the poor ickle UK as Brexiteers allege- rather than that being the other way around as they once promised repeatedly- this in itself is an admission that they were wrong and the central tenet of Brexit was based an outright lie.

            Because as anyone with half a brain could have told you at the time, of course it fucking was.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

              https://youtu.be/qYVp3ieHtRE?t=105

            2. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

              @Michael Strorm

              "As someone noted, Brexit made the fatal mistake of killing the scapegoat"

              Maybe mistake for some, intentional for others. The role and responsibility of governing falling on those elected instead of the EU.

              "But let's remember we were told that it was the UK who held all the cards and the EU was the one who would be desparate for a deal, rolling over and doing anything the UK demanded."

              Not entirely accurate but the EU were desperate for a deal as shown by the NI 'negotiations' and absolute fear of causing another Eurozone crisis. That is why it grates so much that BINO May screwed up so badly but does leave hope that a politician with spine can improve the situation fairly easily.

              1. Michael Strorm Silver badge

                Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                > the EU were desperate for a deal as shown by the NI 'negotiations'

                Not sure what you're trying to say here. If the EU were the ones as desperate for a deal as you say, surely they'd have rolled over at the first hint of pressure on that...?

                On the other hand, if the scare quotes are implying *they* were pressuring the UK into implementing the NI agreement... well, the fact they were in a position to do so rather suggests that they were neither the ones "desperate" for a deal, nor in the position of weakness that Brexiteers promised.

                It was Boris Johnson- everyone's "favourite" Brexiteer- who signed the NI agreement at the *very* last minute days before *his* self-imposed deadline that would otherwise have seen the UK crash out with no deal at all. And- as evidenced by the fact he started trying to weasel out of it almost as soon as the ink was dry- it's clear he only did so in bad faith and out of short-term desperation.

                Remind us who was "desperate" here again?

                > That is why it grates so much that BINO May screwed up so badly

                You're *still* trying to argue that the EU was so desperate for a deal they would have delivered the moon on a stick to the UK if only that pesky ex-Remainer May had done a better job at negotiating?

                Pull the other one, it's got unicorns and rainbows on it.

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                  @Michael Strorm

                  "Not sure what you're trying to say here. If the EU were the ones as desperate for a deal as you say, surely they'd have rolled over at the first hint of pressure on that...?"

                  Why? They had a brexit vote under a remain PM (Cameron), desperate idiots in the UK willing to challenge anything the gov did to stop brexit (amusingly the legal challenges caused brexit to pass through impasse in gov), traitors not in government but opposition parties publicly going meeting the EU to undermine the gov and May who wanted BINO. Compare that to when we had brexit negotiators and they were the ones negotiating, you could hear the pips squeak as our negotiators handed the EU a bill to be negotiated if they would like.

                  "On the other hand, if the scare quotes are implying *they* were pressuring the UK into implementing the NI agreement... well, the fact they were in a position to do so rather suggests that they were neither the ones "desperate" for a deal, nor in the position of weakness that Brexiteers promised."

                  Except NI wasnt an issue. Nobody but desperate remainers seemed to believe so. Actually NI was an issue but for the EU, the UK resolved it very quickly by saying we didnt wish to create a border. The EU could have made one and forced ROI to implement a hard border (some consider breaking the GFA) but the UK was easily in the clear. Trying to remain in but technically out to try an appease both remainers and brexiters is why May was such a failure.

                  "Remind us who was "desperate" here again?"

                  Remainers. Or did you sleep through the entirety of the negotiation period?

                  "You're *still* trying to argue that the EU was so desperate for a deal they would have delivered the moon on a stick to the UK if only that pesky ex-Remainer May had done a better job at negotiating?"

                  What moon on a stick? Only idiots seem to think that way, the same stupidity as believing the UK was in a bad negotiating position and would have to take what it was given. Moronic stupidity which is down to ideology instead of what actually happened. I am amused you call her ex-remainer as if disowning the one who delivered most of the agreement can be excised from remainer hands.

                  1. Michael Strorm Silver badge

                    Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                    tl;dr paraphrasing of what you just said- "If Brexit hasn't been the roaring success promised, it's all the fault of Remainers for their [alleged] sabotage, incompetence or inadequate enthusiasm and support."

                    Back in 2016, I predicted that we'd see this *exact* excuse- blame shifting and finger pointing towards remainers- when Brexit (predictably) didn't deliver the promised unicorns and rainbows.

                    While I'd like to be able to claim credit for some genius-level prescience on that count, the truth is that it was utterly obvious.

                    1. codejunky Silver badge

                      Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                      @Michael Strorm

                      "tl;dr paraphrasing of what you just said- "If Brexit hasn't been the roaring success promised, it's all the fault of Remainers for their [alleged] sabotage, incompetence or inadequate enthusiasm and support.""

                      You seem mistaken. Thats not paraphrasing, that is straw man or also more accurately called bull. If you want to talk to yourself do so without me.

                      "Back in 2016, I predicted that we'd see this *exact* excuse- blame shifting and finger pointing towards remainers- when Brexit (predictably) didn't deliver the promised unicorns and rainbows."

                      And yet throughout the negotiations it was entirely clear the remainers were the ones hacking up the negotiations. You can cry all you want that they buggered you but dont blame brexiters who were negotiating far better when they were allowed to.

                      "While I'd like to be able to claim credit for some genius-level prescience on that count, the truth is that it was utterly obvious."

                      If you tell me your foot will hurt then shoot it you are not an oracle. If you watch remainers try to negotiate BINO when people voted for brexit you cant claim some sort of oracle. You basically predicted what we predicted due to the scum publicly trying to shaft the UK.

                      1. Michael Strorm Silver badge

                        Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                        > BINO [presumably "Brexit in Name Only"]

                        Despite the endless hucksters telling people whatever they wanted to hear and people picking and choosing from the (often contradictory) lies to match whatever they wanted to imagine Brexit would be, your problem is that there was *never* any remotely cohesive agreement on even the most basic details of what form Brexit would take beyond the fact that the UK would leave the EU.

                        In itself, that complete absence of any planning was why voting Leave in 2016 was a fucking stupid idea.

                        Regardless, the UK has since left the EU, it has delivered Brexit. You got what you *actually* voted for, and nothing more. You have no basis for complaint.

                        The fact that doesn't match your fantasy of what you wanted to think you were voting for is entirely your problem.

                        > the scum publicly trying to shaft the UK

                        And this is where (as I also predicted back then) it goes beyond simple blame shifting and finger-pointing and into the outright demonisation of Remainers as enemies of the people and traitors.

                        Your language and tone is disturbingly reminiscent of the man who killed Jo Cox, calling her "one of 'the collaborators' [and] a traitor".

                        1. codejunky Silver badge

                          Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                          @Michael Strorm

                          "Despite the endless hucksters telling people whatever they wanted to hear and people picking and choosing from the (often contradictory) lies to match whatever they wanted to imagine Brexit would be"

                          Somewhat correct, which I have addressed with someone else recently. There is no common image of what brexit was to be but also no such common image of remain either. The EU ranged from being great to being crap but we need to remain to fix it and more besides.

                          "In itself, that complete absence of any planning was why voting Leave in 2016 was a fucking stupid idea."

                          Almost as though brexiters should have conducted brexit.

                          "Regardless, the UK has since left the EU, it has delivered Brexit. You got what you *actually* voted for, and nothing more. You have no basis for complaint."

                          Who is complaining? Not me. I responded factually to your comment and you continued the conversation. We have brexit to a good enough extent that the UK can break free quite easily. Thats why the EU keeps squealing when the gov talks about changing anything.

                          "And this is where (as I also predicted back then) it goes beyond simple blame shifting and finger-pointing and into the outright demonisation of Remainers as enemies of the people and traitors."

                          Nope. Having an opinion or belief is not being a traitor. The direct action of working against the country and undermining the government to a foreign power is.

                          "Your language and tone is disturbingly reminiscent of the man who killed Jo Cox, calling her "one of 'the collaborators' [and] a traitor"."

                          And in losing the argument you now wish to throw me in with a murderer? Step back from your ideological presumptions and go back to what actually happened over brexit.

                      2. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                        "due to the scum publicly trying to shaft the UK."

                        But enough about the brexit-elite and their dark-money backed, unicorn sellers ...

                    2. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                      "blame shifting and finger pointing"

                      Thid is the true heart of all flag-bothering, hard-core English Brexiteers: They are blamers. Unable to take responsibility for their actions. On any level. "It's the EU. It's the French. It's the Remain voters. It's the immigrants. It's the Irish. It's the BBC**" On-and-on ad nauseam. The type of people who'd run a red light, drunk, and STILL try and argue it was the other driver's fault.

                      And It's why the country is in such a mess: Because they also voted for politicians with the same type of personality-disorder. With Johnson being the nadir.

                      ** The broadcaster, not the other BBC.

                      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

                        Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                        "With Johnson being the nadir."

                        I'd put Truss as the nadir. She actually believes wholesale in her own nonsense. BoZo the Clown at least knows deep inside he's just a bullshitter.

                        1. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                          Valid point.

                  2. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                    "What moon on a stick?"

                    Exactly right. Brexit isn't a moon on a stick! It's just a pig's bladder. Weakly illuminated. By candlelight.

              2. nsld

                Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                Talk about rewriting history with this:

                "Not entirely accurate but the EU were desperate for a deal as shown by the NI 'negotiations' and absolute fear of causing another Eurozone crisis. That is why it grates so much that BINO May screwed up so badly but does leave hope that a politician with spine can improve the situation fairly easily."

                May negotiated an all UK backstop approach which kept the UK in the single market and customs union FOR FREE!

                Johnson took over and then gave the EU everything they had asked for in the opening round of talks. He also thought he was still getting what May negotiated and was really confused when Frost had to explain to him that what Johnson thought was 'no deal' was in fact the very poor Frost TCA!

                The reality is that the only way to have made Brexit work in any form was to remain in the EEA and look to rejoin EFTA, anything else was a unicorn powered fantasy designed to confuse the gullible...

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                  @nsld

                  "May negotiated an all UK backstop approach which kept the UK in the single market and customs union FOR FREE!"

                  For free? You mean BINO?

                  "Johnson took over and then gave the EU everything they had asked for in the opening round of talks. He also thought he was still getting what May negotiated and was really confused when Frost had to explain to him that what Johnson thought was 'no deal' was in fact the very poor Frost TCA!"

                  I dont credit Boris with anything more than just finally getting the friggin thing signed off. It left NI in a bad position and wasnt the exit we had hoped for but it does leave us in a position to actually break away from the EU rules should we wish. As I have commented elsewhere, thats why you can hear the pips squeak in the EU when our gov talk about changing the rules.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

                    "You mean BINO?"

                    Brexit Headbanger buzzword bingo: HOUSE!

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

      Sure, it'll come right after that £350M/week for the NHS...

    4. Snapper

      Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

      All 17.4 million versions.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

      You're getting the brexit you voted for, vague promises based on fantasy that anyone with half a brain told you would damage the UK.

    6. captain veg Silver badge

      Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

      Right you are. Your unicorn has been dispatched.

      -A.

    7. nsld

      Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

      This is the Brexit you voted for Dave...

      I really wish all the people who voted for Brexit would just accept the result and stop moaning that the unicorn they were promised turned out to be Nigel Farage with a massive dildo gaffer taped to his head prancing along the white cliffs of Dover shouting at the ocean...

    8. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

      Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

      Boris is collecting is Brexit Bonus and laughing at everyone else on the way to the bank. £5million since leaving office at the last count

      1. captain veg Silver badge

        Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

        What's mad is that "Boris" actually wants to be World King. Prime Minister of the UK was a nice gig, while it lasted, but no great shakes, and certainly not sufficiently lucrative. Nor, given the ongoing investigations, sufficiently omnipotent.

        So what next? Another go at PM seems likely but, while important, it's not really at the same level as World King. He has no guiding principle, so, considering that polling is now consistently in favour of rejoining the EU, this could well be the white horse he charges in on to become Commission President. I dunno, but that would be strategically a bit closer to World King. Whatever might follow, be very afraid.

        -A.

        1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

          Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

          Someone should convince him to become an American citizen again and then run for the White House. At least he will be out of our hair in Blighty. Hope the Americans are not gullible enough to make him POTUS. It can't happen in US of A, can it?

          1. captain veg Silver badge

            Re: >Where's the Brexit bonus?

            Forgot about that. He renounced his US citizenship for tax reasons, but I don't know that it disbars him from the Presidency. It doesn't change the fact that he was born there. All he would need is some oddly pliable Tory donor to settle his affairs with the IRS.

            Yes, I guess that would be closer to "World King" than EU Commission President.

            Americans, be very afraid.

            -A.

  11. codejunky Silver badge

    Usual

    The glory of government. I am sure they will get around to it eventually. Maybe.

    1. heyrick Silver badge

      Re: Usual

      Probably best they don't. They don't exactly have a history of success (or even a clue) with anything technical (with "technical" being defined as "has a plug attached").

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Usual

        Or being told 28nm devices are "the most advanced silicon semiconductors".

        1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: Usual

          Or being told 28 inches devices are "the most advanced silicon semiconductors".

          Corrected for you.

          No Continental measurement units allowed!

    2. Arthur the cat Silver badge

      Re: Usual

      The glory of government.

      'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

      Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you."

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Usual

      The only glory these 4th raters know about are the hole type.

      1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: Usual

        4th raters know about are the hole type

        Ah - kissing the gunner's daughter..

        (an old Navy term for being bent over a ships cannon and flogged or... otherwise punished..).

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-rate

  12. Julian 8 Silver badge

    Just waiting for Dido to post her plans for our IT recovery

    1. heyrick Silver badge
      Happy

      And when we meet

      Which I'm sure we will

      All that was there

      Will be there still

      I'll let it pass

      And hold my tongue

      And you will think

      That I've moved on....

      1. Lars Silver badge
        Pint

        And when we meet

        Not like this hopefully.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIpTE-aHEZ0

        Dr. Strangelove • We'll Meet Again • Vera Lynn

  13. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

    Just sounds like the usual threats

    applied to the government (or whatever type and whatever western country they rule)

    "Give us some money or we'll clear off somewhere else taking the jobs with us"

    Of course , it could be a sound investment by the government,,,, or not as the case maybe , but most likely will be the follow up from the self same company............

    "We buy the IP from our Cayman islands based sub-contractor, and we book the european profits via Ireland to the Virgin islands company thats contralled by a shareholding in Jersey that technically makes no profit so there fore we;'re entitled to a tax rebate based on the fact we're losing money with our UK operation."

    All said after announcing record profits of eleventy billion dollars on a declared taxable turnover of £6

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why, instead of just giving billions of pounds to companies as free money to build chip fabs here, doesn't the government spend those billions building chip fabs itself, and thus actually OWN them and use the profit generated to benefit the UK?

    Is there something about running a chip fab that makes it spontaneously explode if it discovers the company is wholly owned by a government, rather than private shareholders?

    1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
      Joke

      where do you grow and harvest potatoes for your chips now that Eastern Europeans are not available to do it?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Eh?

      Why go through the hassle of building a successful public sector industry and then give it to your mates, I mean privatise it, when you can just give the money directly to your mates and not have any of that socialist back chat?

      Private sector: biggest benefits scroungers in the country.Boris had one thing right: FUCK business.

    3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Great idea. Let's start by nationalising the railways.

      If you're not old enough to remember British Rail, ask someone who is.

      On the other hand, one of the best performing rail franchises was the north eastern one taken back by government because the commercial operators were so shit at the job. So who know what might happen if government ran their own chip fabs?

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        The railways are already nationalised.

        Or at least, their losses, wages and pay scales are entirely under the control of whichever idiot Sunak has currently installed.

        The only thing that remains in private hands are the profits.

      2. captain veg Silver badge

        I remember British Rail

        It was rubbish.

        The reason that it was rubbish is because it had no money. It ran a pretty good service, considering.

        Fast forward to the 2020s. British railways are rubbish, at best. Often, especially outside the London commuter belt, really spectacularly rubbish. Somehow, though, they manage to swallow vast amounts of public money for being even worse than the old BR.

        Britain suffers the highest rail fares in Europe, and yet pays the most to the rail operators in subsidy.

        I have nothing more to add.

        -A.

        1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Re: I remember British Rail

          "Britain suffers the highest rail fares in Europe, and yet pays the most to the rail operators in subsidy."

          And has crappy trains, and an awful service level, as well. (I'm sure there must be SOME nice trains somewhere, but I have yet to happen upon them.)

          1. captain veg Silver badge

            Re: I remember British Rail

            The newer Eurostars are quite nice. So long as you're not in second class, obviously.

            -A.

          2. MJI Silver badge

            Re: I remember British Rail

            (I'm sure there must be SOME nice trains somewhere, but I have yet to happen upon them.)

            All sent up to Scotland

            https://www.railmagazine.com/news/rail-features/the-next-king-of-scotland-inter7city-hst-train-test

    4. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      You can't have the government of a small island decide to create a semiconductor industry from scratch by hiring an ex-pat expert back from the USA and giving them lots of support.

      How would that work ?

    5. Stork Silver badge

      The experience is mixed: shipyards, cars, …

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Public money for private profits

    State handouts for private enterprise? Surely not the American way?

    Fucking scroungers.

  16. Rich 2 Silver badge

    “The Center for Policy Studies”

    The Reg may have turned American but you could at least get your bloody spelling correct. This is a British organisation and is called…

    “The Centre for Policy Studies”

    FFS

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