back to article McDonald's pulls plug on Wi-Fi, starts playing classical music to soothe yobs

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than British McDonald's branches, so the burger joint is trying a new tactic to curb its patrons' bad behavior – by blasting classical music at them. A haven for tracksuited youths by day and a gutter for drunks by night, McDonald's usually decorates the air with …

  1. Roger Kynaston

    The smell from the one near me is enough

    On a hot summer's day when the wind is in the SE our afternoon is replete with people sounding like they are murdering each other. Given the smell of their fat fryers I think I would have an episode if I eat their food.

    On the vaguely tech angle to this story - how is turning the wifi off supposed to calm the seething hordes?

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

      Presumably because they're hanging around to get network access... better to keep the wifi on (so that most apps will select it over the phone data service) and just send the DNS requests to /dev/null...

      1. herman
        Devil

        Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

        DNS redirection is pure eeevul. Ordinary folks will be totally flummoxed and may break their phones in frustration.

      2. JDX Gold badge

        Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

        yeah people gather for WiFi and then play terrible music/videos at full volume from the handset... a pet peeve of mine in a pub

    2. Big_Boomer Silver badge

      Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

      It won't calm them, but since many of them congregate near free Wifi hotspots so they can use anti-social media (having run out of data credit) it will move them elsewhere. McD's doesn't want them in it's stores anyways as they spend very little and discourage other customers. I worked in a few south London McD's way back when (before WiFi or even mobile phones) and the behaviour of certain groups of teen thugs was atrocious to the point where we would refuse to serve certain individuals and had a button which would summon the Police in force if a ruckus kicked off or a weapon was seen. If I had a £ for every time some yoof threatened to kill me because I had refused to serve him I'd have retired after my 18 months, rather than resigned. I feel sorry for the teens as they have nowhere to go, but they really don't help themselves with their behaviour either.

      1. DuncanLarge Silver badge

        Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

        > I feel sorry for the teens as they have nowhere to go

        I always have been confused by this.

        No where to go? More like they cant be arsed to do anything worthwhile.

        There are plenty of things to do. Sit at home and read a book, learn something. Take up a hobby. Go rambling and hiking. You know, fill up your time with interesting stuff.

        Instead they just seem to be brain dead and wander about. Honestly, nowhere to go? Nah, its CBA to do anything.

        Insert a gif of Kevin here.

        1. Code For Broke

          Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

          For some, a sense of "belonging" among their peers is quite important. Being ace at some private hobby or treking in ones and twos isn't satisfying.

          If only we could still send them halfway 'round the world to colonize, like in the good old days, eh?

          Not a simple problem.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

          Even though I neither know nor care what age or generation you are.

          Your inability or unwillingness to do even elementary investigation into the actual point other people are making while insisting at spouting off about what you thinks is a hallmark of the brain trust that thinks of this stuff.

          As it turns out, the people that most businesses are trying to chase off with these hostile design measures aren't being welcomed elsewhere either, unless they have money in their pocket to burn. In many modern cities that also means being able to sustain a cash burn rate far in excess of your hourly wage.

          Rambling and Hiking or hanging around in parks can be tantamount to advertising yourself to be harassed, arrested, or assaulted both by law enforcement or other groups of locals that don't like the look of you. Many mall rats back in the day, and coffee house wifi leeches now are hanging out in a place they aren't likely to be shot or arrested.

          You tell them to read a book they can't afford, or borrow from a library that may no exist in walking distance of their neighborhood, or let them in, as they may be thrown out as readily there as McDonalds. They might have been reading on that wifi signal before it got cut off though...

          Take up a hobby? They probably have several, probably including watching streamers you hate, bands you have never heard of, and fashion that offends your eye. Many of which involve internet access these days. What you imply is why don't they take up the sorts of hobbies YOU think of as hobbies, to which the answer by be why should they care if it means putting up with people like you?

          And plenty of them are trying to get a break from their home life which may not be all sunshine and roses.

          Your lack of comprehension of these issues in on you though, as is your attitude. You could have googled up a hundred versions of these issues if you spent 5 minutes of your life while you were queued up waiting for coffee or chips. Apparently you never did. Maybe you never will. Still on you.

          1. TheMeerkat

            Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

            What a stupid text. Finding justification for yobs and trying to blame everyone but criminals. .

            There is a library in Wrexham, just like in any U.K. city. It is about 200 yards from McDonald’s. But the idiots we are talking about have not read a book because they don’t want.

            1. Citizen of Nowhere

              Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

              `They're probably discouraged by all the sententious old gits who go there.

            2. JDX Gold badge

              Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

              Why should young people have to read books? Or want to? Just because you like reading doesn't make it morally superior. The idea that ill-educated youths will decide to go and quietly sit in a library and not talk to each other when they don't enjoy reading is quite asinine. If they DID go to a library they would not be welcome there.

            3. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

              unfortunately, I will step in to lament that the 'don't want to' is a widespread issue. I have two youngsters at home, and a library (at home) is feet, not yards away. We have made every effort possible over the last 14+ years to encourage them to read (not by stuffing books down their throats, nosir). The school, primary and seconday, have also made some decent effort. The youngsters are at least of average intelligence. And we, the pair of crusties at home, read. At home, on the underground, train, etc. Naturally. But they don't. I mean, they do when they have to, but they don't read for pleasure (they game for pleasure and they consume videos for pleasure). And - anecdotal point, naturally - I get the same feedback from other crusties I happen to ask about their offspring. So it's not about those packs by mcdonald methinks, the problem is much wider. And yes, I know, somebody will tell me that times change, humanity evolves, knowledge has become externalised, you don't need to memorize this stuff. But I can't imagine you can get (and thrive in) any half-decent job in life by watching a few dozen 'life hack' vids from youtube. Unless, 99% of those around you (give or take a couple of years) are like you. In the land of the blind, half-decent algorithm is King? :(

              1. hoola Silver badge

                Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

                I believe that al lot of this is down to attention span and the ability to be concentrate on anything for more than a few minutes is long gon.

                Everything has to be in bite sized chunks.

                You see it everywhere and the Internet is a large part of the cause.

                Now add in the stupidity of the education system that appear to do anything possible to stifle excellence and competition and you get to where we are.

                It has been brewing for decades.

            4. jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid Silver badge

              Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

              "There is a library in Wrexham, just like in any U.K. city. It is about 200 yards from McDonald’s. But the idiots we are talking about have not read a book because they don’t want."

              Exactly. Kids won't want to go into a library or read a book through choice because they might have just spent the last 12 years or so of their lives being forced to do that in school every day. Once you've got a bit of freedom, it's understandable if you don't spend that freedom doing what you have been forced to do all your life.

          2. LybsterRoy Silver badge

            Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

            Not sure about the title as there will be plenty of non-"boomer"s who don't appreciate the yobbish behaviour.

            I am a boomer (I think) at 70+ so I've seen a few generations and one consistent thing is the refrain of "there's nothing to do" accompanied by "there's nowhere to go". Always issued by a few as a justification for their behaviour whilst the majority got on with their lives and found something to do or somewhere to go, even if it was just sitting on a kerb (not many cars about in my youth) moaning about nothing to do nowhere to go.

            One titchy little point. If they can't afford to buy a book or walk (more likely nag parent into taking them) to the library what's wrong with reading on their smartphone - they'll all have one of those. Plenty of free books (legal and otherwise) on the internet.

            1. herman

              Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

              Yoofs cannot read books, because there are no emojis in them.

          3. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

            Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

            "You tell them to read a book they can't afford"

            Can't afford a book? Your post hit rock bottom from the beginning, but this... now you've started to dig. Next you'll be excusing them wrecking a McDonalds as "just youngsters being exuberant" or "It's the fault of the Government for not giving them iPads". Jog on.

          4. Alex Stuart

            Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

            > You tell them to read a book they can't afford

            Nah. These types all have iPhones, airPods, the latest trendy bodywarmer/manbag/trainers etc. Money is not the issue, it's culture and lack of policing.

            1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

              Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

              "Money is not the issue, it's culture and lack of policing."

              I'm sure Plod will be more than happy to come along and bring the youths a cup of tea, then arrest a few bystanders for misgendering.

          5. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: So I will hoist the inevitable "OK Boomer"

            >You tell them to read a book they can't afford, or borrow from a library that may no exist in walking distance of their neighborhood

            Last time I looked Project Gutenburg had thousands of books, for free,that you can download in a fraction of a second to read on your phone.

            >Rambling and Hiking or hanging around in parks can be tantamount to advertising yourself to be harassed, arrested, or assaulted both by law enforcement or other groups of locals that don't like the look of you

            CITATION NEEDED

            >And plenty of them are trying to get a break from their home life which may not be all sunshine and roses.

            Thats on their parent(s) - why should be rest of us put up with them?

            >As it turns out, the people that most businesses are trying to chase off with these hostile design measures aren't being welcomed elsewhere either,

            I wonder why...?

        3. Filippo Silver badge

          Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

          That's the kind of solutions you can propose to individuals. They can work if you have a few troublemakers.

          If they number in the dozens or more, then the root problem is elsewhere. Poor schools, poor social services, bad local economy, I have no idea what it could be in this specific case. But the solution is not individual. With these numbers, there's clearly something disincentivizing local youths from healthy pasttimes. Any effective solution needs to find that something and stop it.

          1. LybsterRoy Silver badge

            Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

            I sort of agree with you unfortunately it would take a massive and fundamental environmental change to achieve it. Mass indoctrination over many years has altered mental attitudes. Bad guys win (look at TV and films), the government should help me, give me money etc. I can't be blamed cos I come from a broken home etc et bloody cetera

        4. Richard 12 Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Your privilege is showing

          All that stuff costs money that their parents don't have.

          Most of the youth clubs that used to provide cheap to free places for hobbies have been deprived of funding, and closed.

          Many country bus routes no longer exist, and the ones that still do are extremely unreliable. So you can only go hiking if you've got a car or live near enough to "the country" to walk there.

          The necessary equipment (boots, waterproofs, maps) aren't free, and the aforementioned youth clubs who used to teach teenagers how to use them have closed.

          I've even seen councils trying to prevent teenagers from playing in parks, apparently because they hide behind the basketball hoop playing tongue hockey.

          So what exactly are they supposed to do on a nearly zero budget?

          1. Mooseman Silver badge

            Re: Your privilege is showing

            "So what exactly are they supposed to do on a nearly zero budget"

            The same as we did at their age. Use their imaginations and brains.

            I had virtually no money as a teenager, the local youth club was very religion oriented and held no attraction for me or my friends. We somehow managed not to cause a nuisance of ourselve or make other peoples' lives a misery.

          2. m-k

            Re: what exactly are they supposed to do on a nearly zero budget

            Some of your arguments don't make sense, particularly that (for hiking), boots, waterproofs, maps, aren't free. I have a couple of pics of my parents' hiking (late 1960s), and while these were more long-distance hikes, rather than 'expeditions', the gear on those pics is just laughable. Actually, no gear, other than military-style rucksacks, the rest is just ordinary clothing, perhaps with a fancy wide-brimmed hat for effect. Maps (including off-road and ad-free apps) are free these days. If you're desperate for gore-tex because, OMG, it's gonna save your life (well done, f.. Gore!), there's a HUGE number of gtx or gtx-style, ex army stuff on ebay, and it's 20 - 50 - 100 usd per piece, from well used, to brand-new. Let alone 2nd hand civvy stuff (the world is drowning in excess clothing). Let alone 'neighbourhood groups' where people give away stuff for free because they no longer use it. Yes, you need comfy boots, but don't need 200 - 300 usd 'high-spec' boots which fall apart as fast as your cheap ones (been there, ex outdoor store stuff).

            And, as to youth clubs (which have closed, because something's gotta give, when there's always less and less money to go round, so councils have to cut left, right and centre) - there are, in many countries, para-military orgs run by the state (no, I don't mean those in Russia ;)

            Getting 'out there' is a problem, to some extent, but again, the problem is more of a will (or lack of), than lack of options. Again, in Europe, there are many schemes for youths that give them discount off rail travel (from decent to _very_ generous). Sure, you can always argue the nearest rlwy statin is miles away, but generally, the problem of 'youth congregating' happens in towns and cities, so again, this argument generally doesn't work.

            btw, I'm only pointing out that your arguments that 'it's too expensive to do outdorsy stuff' is nonsense, I'm not arguing that there's less and less 'open space' for young people, You have council estates which are depressing enough to live in, let alone go out and play, and then you have housing estates, where everything is parcelled up because they can sell up when a new build comes with 'two parking spaces' and 'no ball games allowed'. All this is certainly not the fault of young people that space becomes a valuable asset that can be 'repackaged' and sold because why not and fuck the implications.

            btw2, I don't really know, to answer your last question, 'what exactly are they supposed to do"? I have a feeling that the decision-makers don't know what 'options' to provide, because they're no longer in that position themselves (young, no money, no interest), and the young themselves don't know what they want to do anyway. They want to meet, that much they know, but what exactly to do when they do 'meet'? Have fun. OK. What then tends to happen is that you have a constant figure of combined intelligence diviced by the growing number of individuals in a given group, so they end up with a 'let's beat up that old fucker and see if it's fun enough!'

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: what exactly are they supposed to do on a nearly zero budget

              >And, as to youth clubs (which have closed, because something's gotta give, when there's always less and less money to go round, so councils have to cut left, right and centre)

              And you can only rebuild themso many times once they have been smashed up...plus they dont want to go to the library, so what on earth is going to attract the to a youth club? Free squash, ping-pong and handicrafts? Excuse me while I express doubt.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Your privilege is showing

            If you need a budget to have fun, you aren't trying hard enough.

          4. david bates

            Re: Your privilege is showing

            If you really live that far from the countryside there is nothing to stop you hiking round the points of in your city, in your trainers. Very few people live within walking distance of forests or moors.

            As for the maps? Please...Bing even has an OS Map overlay.

        5. sabroni Silver badge
          Thumb Down

          Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

          Brain dead daily mail comments getting tens of upvotes?

          Time to fuck off somewhere else I think.....

        6. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Sit at home and read a book, learn something

          this, and the following (Take up a hobby. Go rambling and hiking. You know, fill up your time with interesting stuff.) - all this is right, but also, missing the target. This is a suggestion of an old, white, angry man (or whatever sark the progressive and 'youn'g love to use). It's wise, reasonable advice based on life experience, common sense, logic, etc. Therefore it misfires: a huge majority of young (though at times white and usually angry) men, are unwise, don't have any life experience, don't apply common sense and / or logic and will refuse to be, in any circumstances, 'reasonable'. Their return advice to you: get a life (followed by more or less inventive string of expletives produced to impress their peers and cause their rating in the pack to soar). Or worse, because there are many ways to increase your peer rating in a pack of wolves, other than just growls. I honestly don't think there's been, over the last, what, 5 - 7 thousands years of 'civilisation', any successful solution to this... issue. And I mean, truly successul, rather than a quip such as 'send them to war', etc. Mitigation, at best :(

        7. phuzz Silver badge
          Stop

          Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

          Recommending that the youth read a book? Are you mad? Don't you know what reading does to young minds?

          Heed the venerable words of the Reverend Enos Hitchcock:

          The free access which many young people have to romances, novels, and plays has poisoned the mind and corrupted the morals of many a promising youth; and prevented others from improving their minds in useful knowledge.

          ("Memoirs of the Bloomsgrove family." 1790).

          It was always better in the old days, and the youth of today are always terrible and about to bring down society.

      2. MrBanana

        Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

        You were lucky it was just youths with nothing to do. I used to work the late shift at the McDonalds in Aldershot, with drunken paras roaming the streets. Yeah sure, piss in the corner because you can't be arsed to walk upstairs to the toilet. Refusing service was not an option, because they do know how to kill you.

    3. JDX Gold badge

      Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

      I was struck that I cannot recall a McD ever playing music. I didn't think they did, but the article claims it's the norm

    4. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

      Given the smell of their fat fryers I think I would have an episode if I eat their food

      I've found that it varies by franchise - there's one in town that almost always gives me an upset stomach if I eat there whereas I can eat at others with no problem. Presumably, the franchise rules don't specify how long they can go between changing the oil in the fryers..

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge
        Flame

        Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

        The fire regulations were very explicit.

        Mostly because old oil self-ignites fairly easily.

        However the fire regulations are long gone, replaced by "risk assessment" (generally by people who are not competent to do so), and those aren't enforced anyway as it's one of the first departments to go when councils need to save money.

    5. hoola Silver badge

      Re: The smell from the one near me is enough

      I would have thought that the data packages most of their customers have and the time spent in the "Restaurant" ( I hate that term for these types of places) mean it is just not worth it any more.

  2. Joe W Silver badge
    Coat

    "unruly Beethoven enthusiasts"

    you called? Mine's the one with the score of the 2nd symphony in the pocket.... (can't stand the later stuff, 5th is brilliant but the 1st movement has been done to death, the early piano concerts are also great - Klemperer[*] approved :) )

    [*] sounds like a troublemaker, eh?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Beethoven played on 19th century instruments (as the composer intended) is best. So Gardiner's recordings, or the Hanover band. Don't bother with Herbert von Karajan's recordings .. Beethoven on modern orchestral instruments is just messed up. (The reason for this is, the modern instruments resonate more, forcing the conductor to slow down. Hear it played quick and crisp on period instruments and you'll never want to go back to a boring stodgy modern recording. Just my correct opinion :-)

      1. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

        No no no, Wendy Carlos...

        1. Mooseman Silver badge

          "Wendy Carlos..."

          works better for Bach and other baroque composers for me. The version of Beethoven's 9th from Clockwork Orange is pretty striking though.

          1. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

            Dammit! I came here to make a Clock Orange reference and you beat me to it. Seems 'The Verve' were into such references, "The droogs don't work".

      2. Joe W Silver badge

        I would (partly) disagree. Transparency can be achieved by reducing the orchestra to reasonable numbers. This helps quite a bit. We are also (for the early works) taking more about 18th c instruments, which, I agree, sound quite differently, and are played differently, and tuned a tad lower, especially compared to the modern, aggressive, 446 Hz. I hope this fad ends at some point.

        But speeding up? Are you N. Harnoncourt? His andante is more speed walking than the more of a (brisk) walk kind of tempo... (I agree with you though, andante is not a slow, stumbling lurch)

    2. F. Frederick Skitty Silver badge

      The "unruly Beethoven enthusiasts" line immediately made me think of the Viz comic character "Raffles the Gentleman Thug".

    3. Captain Hogwash

      Re: unruly Beethoven enthusiasts

      Oh it was gorgeousness and gorgeosity made flesh. The trombones crunched redgold under my bed, and behind my gulliver the trumpets three-wise silverflamed, and there by the door the timps rolling through my guts and out again crunched like candy thunder. Oh, it was wonder of wonders. And then, a bird of like rarest spun heavenmetal, or like silvery wine flowing in a spaceship, gravity all nonsense now, came the violin solo above all the other strings, and those strings were like a cage of silk round my bed. Then flute and oboe bored, like worms of like platinum, into the thick thick toffee gold and silver. I was in such bliss, my brothers.

    4. hoola Silver badge

      As a kid (a long time ago) we were taken to the Royal Festival Hall to see Otto Klemperer and Daniel Barenboim, 5th Concerto if I remember. I cannot recall the rest of the programme.

      Absolutely stunning.

      In the same era was the other rising star at the time, Vladimir Ashkenazy.

  3. UCAP Silver badge
    Joke

    You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than British McDonald's branches

    I am not so certain of that statement, have you looked at the current occupants of the House of Commons recently?

    1. Roger Kynaston

      HoC vs McRat

      Perhaps there is an outlet amongst the eateries of the Palace of Westminster.

    2. Rafael #872397
      Pint

      I was going to say "any branch of any government" but you beat me to it.

      1. David 132 Silver badge

        "Now then, criminal record?"

        "Absolutely not!"

        "Oh come on Baldrick, you're going to be an MP for god's sake! I'll just put 'Fraud and Sexual Deviancy'..."

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        >I was going to say "any branch of any government" but you beat me to it.

        Oi! I work for a distant tentacle of the Gubbermint!

        Oh.

        As you were.

    3. LybsterRoy Silver badge

      Just one small question - why recently - its been that way for a good few decades at least.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        its been that way for a good few decades at least

        True, but in the past at least they had the decency to pretend otherwise...

        1. Ordinary Donkey

          in the past at least they had the decency to pretend otherwise...

          Unfortunately that pretending usually involved banning things just to pretend they weren't using the same things at home. Some of us would prefer they'd just admitted they liked some of the same things we do.

          I mean the pig's head was a bit over the top, but they didn't even try to ban that.

  4. Steve Button Silver badge

    print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

    What a great idea!!

    OK, not the actual number plates but a token that is tied to that plate. And then any local council who has an account set up could go onto a portal and get the number plate. Automatic fine. Littering would be cut to almost nothing overnight. And let's be honest, it's almost always bloody McDonalds packets.

    1. cookieMonster Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

      Not fair, can only upvote once

    2. DuncanLarge Silver badge

      Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

      I have a defence:

      "The wind blew it out of the bin g'vner"

      1. Steve Button Silver badge

        Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

        Then you made a bad job of putting it into the bin. This doesn't really happen, unless you have a fully open topped bin. I didn't say it was perfect.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

          Whilst I agree that littering needs addressing we actually have a self emptying bin in our village. I suspect the move to using bin bags as liners is the problem but when it is almost empty the wrong gust of wind sucks up the liner depositing the lightweight rubbish in the bag on the grass beside it. Its a beautiful village in a lovely area for walking but if you want to get here by public transport its far more expensive than driving it will probably take a train and a bus journey (possibly 2) and the very limited bus service means you would have to plan very carefully not to be stranded out here overnight.

          To get to either of the neighboring cities (both within 20 miles) takes either 1 hour in one direction or 2 1/2 hours in the pother direction by public transport or less than 30 minutes by car.

    3. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

      Yeah great idea, then some smart a*se will pull the bags out of the bin and drop them around the town for giggles.

      1. Steve Button Silver badge

        Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

        yeah, not ideal. I know it's possible, but I can't see this being a _huge_ problem.

        There is an alternative, we could have the death penalty for anyone caught littering (or for any crime), but the burden of proof would have to be stronger. This would also stamp out the problem.

        1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

          Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

          These are people willing to eat in McDo, do you think they'd be deterred by the death penalty?

          1. Winkypop Silver badge
            Devil

            Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

            “willing to eat in McDo”

            Post of the day!

      2. ravenviz Silver badge

        Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

        Re: pulling bags out of bins

        So people can take them home and put them in the recycling.

        Even AI could scan the recycling as it’s being processed, and if it spots your bag then you get points at McD to get money off your next cholesterol binge.

    4. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

      Whose number plate should I give?

      1. Steve Button Silver badge

        Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

        It would need an ANPR on the drive through, or the cashier just uses the camera to take a note. This would not work for walk in take away, but I suspect that most littering at the side of the road is by people with cars. Don't see much in town, which I guess is a) They have people to clear it up -and/or- b) There are plenty of bins close by.

        1. gryphon

          Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

          Many of them have that already for the parking leeches.

          Sorry, the valued companies making up the parking management community.

      2. Bill Gray

        Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

        Probably best if the bag (and perhaps cups and chip-holders and such) have a serial number on them. Most people, it appears, use credit/debit cards, AKA identifying tracking devices, when purchasing fast "food". So you pick up the trash, and the emporium in question can correlate the number with the card owner and their billing data.

        At least around here, it's certainly true that ~60% of roadside litter is fast "food" packaging (remainder is cigarettes and soda/beer cans/bottles). I'd expect the legal issues involved would make this hard to do in most jurisdictions, but I'm not so sure there are practical problems with it... certainly something a totalitarian society such as China or Singapore could implement without much trouble.

        1. David 132 Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

          >remainder is cigarettes and soda/beer cans/bottles

          Do they not do money-back deposits on cans & bottles in the UK any more?

          Here in Oregon it's 10¢ or 5¢ per item, and there are easy-to-use machines at Costco etc that will accept the items and give you cash or a voucher back.

          Putting my armchair psychologist hat on for a moment... when it comes to law enforcement, punishing people will only ever deter the law-abiding (and I say that as a self-confessed member of the hang-em-and-flog-em brigade).

          The real trick is to make people not want to commit the offence in the first place. Leverage self-interest, greed, whatever - those characteristics are universal and will always be with us, so you might as well make use of them for societal good.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            And then they take the machines away

            and keep the money. Not like most of it was making it into actual recycling anyway.

            Recycling deposits are a scam. Make the manufacturers pay for it up front, or it probably won't get recycled, regardless of which bin you put it in. I have a trash can full of recyclable cans and bottles. They charge me 5c a can, and only pay by the pound, at a fraction of that rate. That's not a deposit, that's an idiot tax. Designed to quietly pick the pocket of the lower and middle classes while making middle class people who can't do basic math feel good about themselves so it won't get voted out in the next election.

          2. Bill Gray

            Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

            > Do they not do money-back deposits on cans & bottles in the UK any more?

            I'm in Maine, where it's the same five or ten cents a can. Back when we started with returnables, in the mid-1970s, cans and bottles mostly disappeared from the roadsides. The deposits have been mostly unchanged since then; with inflation, some people feel it simpler to toss the items out the window.

            Must concede that while the proposed scheme would identify litterers, actually getting lawn forcement to pursue such cases might be difficult.

          3. LybsterRoy Silver badge

            Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

            Deposits on bottles have been planned and delayed in Scotland.

            When I was MUCH younger than now taking a bottle or two back to the shop to get the deposit was a great way to enhance your pocket money. Nowadays I suspect that to motivate people the deposit would need to be £5 or £10. Such a charge would have the additional benefit of stopping people dringing/eating so much crap because they'd stop buying it.

            1. gryphon

              Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

              I think they'd have been better introducing an if you've got a public general waste bin you need to have a recycling one as well.

              And if you have a recycling one then have a general too.

              Reason for the latter is it would reduce the "I've got a food wrapper, where's a bin, there's one, oh, it's recycling only, where's another bin, 20 metres away, sod that, in it goes'.

              And thus all the recycling stuff gets contaminated.

              My local Sainsbury's have a big recycling machine in their car park which pays something like 5p per item as a voucher, think it does glass and plastic. Between Christmas and now it's been open maybe 2 days.

              They also have smaller machines in store which only take plastic bottles, cans etc. Also not working most of the time AND refuses to take their own brand squash bottles.

              So what's the point.

            2. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

              Re: ...a great way to enhance your pocket money

              Yeah, we used to find bottles in their back yard, put a few in our bags and take them round the front for threepence a time.

            3. Mooseman Silver badge

              Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

              "When I was MUCH younger than now taking a bottle or two back to the shop to get the deposit was a great way to enhance your pocket money"

              I had a summer job working for the local council when I was about 15, litter picking, gardening etc. We collected hundreds of glass bottles weekly, and split the cash between about 10 of us. A handy little top up considering it was 10p a bottle (and it was the mid 70's)

              1. ravenviz Silver badge

                Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

                We used to scour the local building sites for Corona bottles for the 10p return, you know, when kids were allowed to play on scaffolding!

            4. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

              I remember rummaging in my grandma's cellar for old bottles, which I then took to the local store to exchange for hard cash. It wasn't much (most of the bottles were in the cellar for a reason, i.e. to keep for making syrop and compotte - an old story), but all this was... natural. Also, returning read newspapers, in neat(ish) bundles, to the recycling centre. In exchange for toilet paper (unused!). Yes, scarcity makes people behave rationally, kind of... comes naturally. But we live in the world of cheap abundance now. Cheap now, pay later...

    5. heyrick Silver badge

      Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

      No, not an opaque token. It'll be some piss poor idea that will get hacked and soon people will be hounded down for littering at the other side of the country.

      Much simpler idea. Take a photo of the car and occupants and have some sort of colour laser jobbie that can print "souvenir bags" (let's call them that).

      It's a bit like what the ferry companies used to do in the late 90s, they'd take a photo of every car as it entered, and all of the photos would be pinned up on a board, you could go and order a big size print of yours. It was passed off as a sort of on board souvenir of your voyage, but in reality it was photographic evidence of what cars boarded and who was in them (at least, the adults, they didn't tend to hassle children in the back seat).

      Plus, if your mug (and licence plate) are clearly printed on the bag, you'd have to be a right twat to toss it into the ditch.

    6. LybsterRoy Silver badge

      Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

      Whilst I like the idea I do detect one small problem - I walk into a McDs - do I have to carry my car in with me so they can see the number plate or can I detach the number plate and leave a note in the windscreen for the police - "gone to McDs - back soon and will be legal again"?

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

        To be fair, the carpark is (usually) private property and you don't need a numberplate there.

        Although the ANPR to send you a fine "PCN" invoice for staying one second longer than it says in 2 point type on a sign in the toilets might not work if you did.

    7. hoola Silver badge

      Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

      A road where I live is just filled with McDonalds packaging where it has been thrown out of cars. I just don't understand the mentality.

      It is just the same as parks, beaches, mountain tops. People just drop the rubbish (mostly takeaway food packaging) everywhere.

      Do they expect someone to go around and wipe their arse for them?

      1. gotes

        Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

        "Can't someone else do it?"

      2. Ordinary Donkey

        Re: print car number plates on takeaway bags to discourage customers from littering

        I just don't understand the mentality.

        Nutritional Influences on Antisocial Behavior

  5. alain williams Silver badge

    Even them playing classical music ...

    is not enough to tempt me into a McDonalds -- I only eat food.

    Maybe this might get my local supermarket to play some decent music rather than the wailing that they normally pump out of their speakers.

    1. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

      Re: Even them playing classical music ...

      Other than going in for a McShit that is, there fixed that for you...

      1. F. Frederick Skitty Silver badge

        Re: Even them playing classical music ...

        Or a McShootup (of the hard drugs variety) according to a friend who worked in MuckDonalds and as the new guy had the delightful task of cleaning up the toilets...

        1. Little Mouse

          Re: Even them playing classical music ...

          A couple of decades ago anyway, the main McD's in Melbourne city centre actually had a secure sharps-bin attached to the wall in the gents.

          1. Mooseman Silver badge

            Re: Even them playing classical music ...

            "McD's in Melbourne city centre actually had a secure sharps-bin"

            I found one in Madrid that had the same (I went in to use the McLavvy), and appeared to be a popular spot for the local ladies of negotiable affection to hang about between jobs.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Even them playing classical music ...

      supermarkets are ok, they provide free wifi, so I generally shop with my headphones on, old mobile in my pocket, tuning to any of the radio stations around the world. Really happy. And mass shootings don't usually happen here so much, so I should be allright...

  6. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    McDonalds

    My favourite thing during a lunch break, when working in a town somewhat forgotten by deity, was watching the wild life gathering around McDonalds.

    There was a nice Mexican restaurant that offered first class seats to the sightings on the other side of the road.

    Some of the shenanigans there even made it to the front page of one of tabloids.

    1. MrDamage Silver badge

      Re: McDonalds

      I used to have a delivery run that would take me through the red light part of town. Some of the creatures that I saw Monday mornings needed narration by Sir David.

  7. b0llchit Silver badge
    Coat

    Quality and violence

    I think that the (lack of) quality at McD accounts for all the violence. The smell, taste and nutritional effect of what they call "food" is enough to make even the greatest pacifist violent.

  8. xyz Silver badge

    Methinks...

    The author was bitten by a Big Mac as a child...

    Anyhoo... When I moved into Catford, I went down to McD's after unpacking. There was a big sign outside which said... "SHOOTING HERE CAN YOU HELP?" My girlfriend let out a gulp.

    Anyhoo 2, if they want to stop antisocial behaviour I suggest they get rid of those ordering touch screens. I was nearly homicidal after trying to order on one the other week. The touch screen had obviously run out capacitance petrol and the little box thing on the bottom right kept flapping open and ejecting paper at me. Then there was the massive Glovo drone queue.

    1. Excellentsword (Written by Reg staff)

      Re: Methinks...

      Don't worry, I've bitten more than my fair share of Big Macs too. I just try not to go inside the restaurants.

  9. Kurt 5

    Stolen from Bugs Bunny

    The Bugs Bunny Hurdy Gurdy scene is what I thought of first.

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xit15

  10. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker
    FAIL

    Classical music calms?

    In my experience, only if you already have a bias towards classical music.

    Playing that instead of the rock/pop/hip-hop hits expected by [insert youngun' demographic here] might actually *increase* the violence, especially against employees/managers (see icon).

    1. heyrick Silver badge

      Re: Classical music calms?

      Classic or Classical? I would suggest a loop tape of something by Kylie Minogue, like Locomotion. A few times around of that ought to disperse the crowd...

      ...and us crusties can be like "eh, that was chart topping stuff once upon a time, kids today, don't know they're born, etc etc".

      1. Doctor Evil
        Joke

        Re: Classical music calms?

        "I would suggest a loop tape of something by Kylie Minogue, like Locomotion. A few times around of that ought to disperse the crowd..."

        Yabut ... they don't want to repel everyone!

      2. ravenviz Silver badge

        Re: Classical music calms?

        I seem to recall the music of Cliff Richard was proposed for use in town centres…

        New Zealand Herald

        1. Mooseman Silver badge

          Re: Classical music calms?

          " Cliff Richard "

          Great/ Now I have the Young Ones version of "living Doll" in my head.

          "Fies my soul???"

      3. Is It Me

        Re: Classical music calms?

        As someone who has worked retail in the past, you really need to think of the workers.

        Even looping a whole CD will drive the workers insane by the end of one working day, let alone a week of it, at least now you can store enough music to keep it different over the course of a day

    2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

      Re: Classical music calms?

      @My other car WAS an IAV Stryker

      You may have missed something...

      https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2023/01/26/lockheed_martin_lights_up_50kw/#c_4608738

      1. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker
        Thumb Down

        Re: Classical music calms?

        I didn't miss jack squat; I didn't want to read that article or comments. They built the prototype vehicle (cut off the rear portion of the crew compartment) in the same facility where I used to work, then stuck on the laser unit.

        I worked in Mobility Engineering, which also handled electric power generation, but did they ever ask us to contribute to help power the laser? NO. They always gathered some special team of engineers who didn't know squat about the vehicles, designing/building for (hopeful/eventual) production, or sustainability, or even balanced performance (electric power vs. mobility power -- we had folks who made awesome sims to check just that).

        Ignoring (or downsizing, or the worst: paying them to leave with a buyout) the people already hired and trained to do the job and who already knew the ins and outs of the vehicle in question -- much of why I finally left.

  11. The Axe

    Manchester

    The MaccyD in Piccadilly Gardens in Manchester is a centre of violence around 3pm. Something to do with kids leaving school. So common that police are parked there all the time.

  12. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

    7-11 Convenience Stores Here Tried This

    The music drove off probably 80% of the undesirables, but also drove off enough (formerly) paying customers that store management gave up on that plan. Our local transport authority tried it at their commuter train stops, but gave it up for reasons I'm not privy to.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 7-11 Convenience Stores Here Tried This

      Right, it's not calming at all, it just drives people off that aren't into that kind of music. It's less of a dick move than those high frequency sound devices (which sadly I can still hear, much closer to 50 than to 15) but it's still a dick move.

      and while there ARE classical music fans, they aren't going to show up for a Big Mac often enough to keep the doors open. That demographic is a rounding error in both retail and fast food. It is also racially and ethnically loaded. (to be fair, "world music" would be too, just loaded to different demographics.)

      I can't get as worked up about cutting off the free Wifi though. It was shady AF anyway, so in the long run the miscreants are probably better off without it.

  13. jmch Silver badge
    Trollface

    "Wrexham in Wales, a city put on the map for the purchase of its ailing football club by US actors Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney."

    No need to be offensive to poor Ryan Reynolds... He's Canadian!

    1. David 132 Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      My niece plays for the Wrexham Under-19s Womens' team. We are all incredibly proud of her. And she's met RR when he's visited the club.

      1. jmch Silver badge

        Weird connection, but I have a soft spot for Wrexham as I used to 'manage' them in one of the old Championship Manager games (must be all of 20 years ago now, but still...)

  14. Barrie Shepherd

    Use of Muzak is not a new concept.

    British Rail used to play "Uplifting" marching music, Sousa type, at Waterloo Station in the morning rush hour, the objective to make passengers walk briskly along to minimise congestion,

    In the evening peak they played soothing music so that commuters were calmed on their way home and would , hopefully, not vent their daily troubles on BR.

    By all accounts it worked!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Many of the underground car parks in Copenhagen play similar type of non-stop circus type music to keep 'undesirables' from kipping there overnight ...

      It certainly does make you want to find your car quickly.

      1. David 132 Silver badge
        Happy

        >non-stop circus type music to keep 'undesirables' from kipping there

        Yeah, that'll get them to Fucik right off.

      2. Stork Silver badge

        I think they started at Copenhagen central station back in the 80es to disperse the down and outs begging at the west exit.

  15. heyrick Silver badge

    McDonald's WiFi? Only if you're a complete fool.

    July 2009, France, Loire Atlantique. A friend and I were in a McDo and thought we'd try out the free WiFi, see what it's like.

    We quickly discovered that any attempt to connect to an SMTP server is answered with McDo's own one, that will happily allow you in, though it's really slow at relaying messages (we made up some ridiculous headers and sent a rude message about the eatery to a spam drop address). We abandoned any further investigation because to silently hijack an entire port like that (and do what with the messages sent?)....Fuck right off, then die, then fuck off some more.

    1. Captain Hogwash

      Error

      Error

      1. heyrick Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Error

        Which part, using free WiFi or going to McDo?

        (I do neither these days)

        Either way, upvote for an amazingly succinct reply.

  16. DS999 Silver badge

    Classical music

    Didn't do much to stop Kubrick's droogs from inflicting ultraviolence on those around them!

  17. Slx

    I remember a café in Brussels that played Chris de Burgh at FULL volume when it wanted to clear the place out and it worked!

    1. ravenviz Silver badge

      That would have made me go in!

      1. David 132 Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Music ideal for The Traveller.

    2. TimMaher Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Cafe

      Was that the Morte Subite?

  18. Martin Summers Silver badge

    This really isn't new. The McDonald's near me has done this for a few years now in the evenings.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    >> "I was absolutely appalled when I received the overnight incidents. I am determined to address this behaviour. We did apprehend a few, and took a few home, but I'm not content that this will fix the issue long term."

    You think? I mean, nothing like a free taxi home to fix things!

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Being partial to Chris de Burgh, classical music and MaccyDs, I'm starting to feel a little left out here:)

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Inhuman treatment

    Surely, living in Wrexham is enough punishment.

  22. T. F. M. Reader

    The law of unintended consequences

    So the hope it that a few bars of Schubert will make the troublemakers go elsewhere? Let's hope it works. I don't see Schubert enthusiasts gathering to chomp burgers to the accompaniment of recorded music at a McD Verein though. How are the acoustics, by the way?

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: The law of unintended consequences

      Quite lively, on account of the place now being completely empty.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Worked at a city building that had a large covered area at the front

    Each morning I had to step over rough sleepers by the doors.

    Playing very loud classical music did not deter them.

    These guys were sadly on other planets at the time.

  24. tatatata

    Sorry. I do not see how paying Ludwig Von will prevent the ultra-violence. Maybe stop serving milk?

    1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

      Re: I do not see how paying Ludwig Von will prevent the ultra-violence...

      That reminds me (and I think you are alluding to):-

      Clockwork Orange.

    2. Michael Habel
      Pirate

      >Implying that McDonald's use actual Milk in their Shakes, and Ice-cream,,,,

      *Closest thing to a poison skull & bones as I could find...

  25. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    Classical Music

    I can think of some classical music will have the opposite effect to that intended. The Rite of Spring would be a good example. If all the patrons start to circle around selected female employees to perform a sacrificial rite...

    I suppose the current movement against such things will want to ban that particular piece anyway...

    Ok, ok, how about Carmina Burana?

    Great, everyone get your clothes orff...

    1. Bebu Silver badge

      Re: Classical Music

      "I can think of some classical music will have the opposite effect to that intended."

      I was thinking for instant effect you cannot beat traditional chinese opera. Kabuki would be a close second unless the tongs or yakuza hang out in your venue - I would think the music would be the least of your problems.

      Some of the atonal music from the early 20th century would probably work just as well.

      If you were unashamedly trying to sell these macburgers then sitar music might fit the bill - it is quite pleasant at first but after 20 minutes it becomes quite irritating. Pachelbel's canon in D would too.

      Seems like urban areas in the UK are becoming as unpleasant as those in the US. What the brits lack in guns they make up with knives. I guess same causes same effects.

      Looks like today if Sherlock Holmes were to catch a train to some remoter part of England he might be better advised to saddle up shanks pony.

  26. John H Woods Silver badge

    Kids these days ...

    “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.” -- Socrates

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Kids these days ...

      I think your Socrates pal was just damn right copyright pirate! - as far as I remember the original lament came from some tablet from the Mesopotamia folks? Sumer folks? :D

  27. Lazlo Woodbine

    When I was a mere wippersnapper, the bus station in town alighted upon this same tactic, blaring the kind of easy listening tripe that even Smoth FM and Radio 2 reject as too smaltzy.

    Unfortunately they didn't count on the kids actually enjoying the noise once it escaped the crackly distorted PA speakers, so the 30 or so youths who were causing problems became 60 or so when their industrial music loving friends arrived to enjoy the distorted Mantovani.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    a "bit of the old Ludwig van"

    youtu.be/6A0S5bd_wKA?t=229

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: a "bit of the old Ludwig van"

      yes, it works wonders, join the army, see the other world...

  29. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    Koyaanisqatsi

    They should play this in the kitchens, might increase productivity, all those speeded up sausages...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOIvJTuCrlE

  30. Lars Silver badge
    Coat

    Some soothing classical

    Some soothing classical music one could recommend.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGiz_qbViE0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrsYD46W1U0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9zYbwDqZUs

    1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

      Re: Some soothing classical

      A choral version of the 1812? I learn something new every day.

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