back to article Quantum entanglement discovery could enable futuristic comms tech, Nuclear physicists say

In his cult classic "Ender's Game", Orson Scott Card imagined a world in which Earth's brightest, and tragically youngest, tacticians could command armies across vast distances instantaneously using the device called the ansible*. While the jury is still out on whether such a device will ever be possible, scientists at the US …

  1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not?

    And if you don’t ask, you don’t immediately get, has also forever proven itself correct?

    Quantum entanglement discovery could enable futuristic comms tech, Nuclear physicists say So that must be why the Russians might have hacked the DoE, right? .... Tobias Mann/El Reg/ Situation Publishing

    If ever could might replace would maybe should will deliver the Russians an ansible hack into "never-before-seen" types of enabled NEUKlearer HyperRadioProACTivated IT Spectrum EMPowering futuristic comms tech/Big Brother Boss FOSS Quantum Communication Channels, Tobias?

    Or they could just simply ask of prospective suppliers of their future needs and seeds and feeds like anyone else can, and ideally should, to gain the immediate advantage delivered with first hand party knowledge of problematic questions/missing chain links.

    One does have to ponder in wonder at why simple common sense for some, and indeed that may be surprisingly many, all too often appears to be so difficult to exercise in order to take full advantage of the foundational lead that premium primary intelligence renders.

    1. sitta_europea Silver badge

      Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not?

      Why, oh why, isn't there a way for me to block posts from a selected individual?

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not, Bro?

        If I were to hazard a guess, sitta_europea, as to why there isn’t a way for you to block posts from a selected individual, I’d venture because of a whole host of things written by George Orwell in 1948 and 1984?

        1. Rich 2 Silver badge

          Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not, Bro?

          “… things written by George Orwell in 1948 and 1984?”

          George Orwell died in 1950 - I don’t think he came back from the dead to write anything in 1984

          1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge
            Big Brother

            Hmmm?

            George Orwell died in 1950 - I don’t think he came back from the dead to write anything in 1984 .... Rich 2

            I think the least said about that reply the better the chance of it being forgotten you said it, Rich 2, although maybe you forgot to accompany it with the Joke Alert icon. :-)

      2. Graham Dawson Silver badge

        Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not?

        You really want to block the resident AI?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not?

          If scifi has taught me anything, it's don't piss off the AIs

        2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
          Alien

          Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not?

          resident AI

          Artificial Intelligence or Alien Intelligence?

      3. zuckzuckgo Silver badge
        Go

        Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not?

        amanfromMars 1 is single-handedly defending us from web scraping AI's.

        When you recognize some future deceptive AI generated content due to odd capitalization or grammar - you will have amanfromMars 1 to thank for that.

      4. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not?

        Why, oh why, isn't there a way for me to block posts from a selected individual?

        A little bit of browser extension fettling should see you right.

      5. david 12 Silver badge

        Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not?

        Why, oh why, isn't there a way for me to block posts from a selected individual?

        Entanglement at The Register. You're passing by, and quantum fluctuations in the Aether...

      6. MyffyW Silver badge

        Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not?

        I'm not sure the individual you allude to properly lives up to the "A" or the "I" concept, but I do find their posts a refreshing change from the immaculate grammar and vapidity of ChatGPT.

      7. 89724102172714182892114I7551670349743096734346773478647892349863592355648544996312855148587659264921

        Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not?

        and the anonymous ones

    2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Such may be highly disruptive in the course of being fablessly creative. So be IT.

      In the absence of evidence produced/presented by downvoters to the contrary, it is more reasonable than not to assume that they do not honestly and fully understand and fail to translate and transfer and connect to real world scenarios/adeptly inept politically incorrect geophysical circles that which the future offers, and any stuck-in-the-past present does futile fickle self-destructive battle against.

      Such may have one pondering on the aptness of the following quote supplied by nautica in reply to a another post here on El Reg

      "Far more crucial than what you do know or what you do not know is what you do not want to know."--Eric Hoffer

      And please, if you are offended in any way by views shared here, avoid the further pain realisation may visit upon you after reading more of what Eric Hoffer thought to say shared here

      Information, education and entertainment it certainly is, and something which AI and IT has intelligently designed novel social media platforms to provide for supply of future enlightening and previously unknown exciting content.

    3. StargateSg7

      Re: Seek and Ye Shall Find, has forever been the case, has it not?

      Not to brag too much but NCA (North Canadian Aerospace), a Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada technology company, has had Trapped Xenon particles within Quantum-wells on Borosilicate glass plate quantum-entanglement-based communications technology since at least 2012 now!

      You can't really DIRECTLY read and write to a Q-Bit (i.e. severe decoherence and various other bitwise-error issues!) BUT you can INFER a new value into a related nano-structure that then IMPRESSES ITSELF into the current Spin OR Position of the Q-Bit. By making the change or reading the change of a INFERENCE-based nearby object you do not actually cause a decoherence effect on the Q-bit itself which is a set of inert gas Xenon atoms trapped within a nano-well drilled or stamped into a borosilicate glass (aka Pyrex) substrate!

      If you synchronize the reads/writes over a 65,536 by 65,536 array of quantum wells that is over 4+ BILLION separate states that can be read or written to all-at-once at Xenon's gyromagnetic ratios at 11.7, 17.6 or 35.3 MHz depending on isotope! (I'm not the chemist/physicist so someone else can explain the previous values!), so it is now possible to go as high as 35 MHZ where there is 2^32 separate values in a 64k by 64k array of quantum wells = 4,294,967,296 bitwise-values by 35,000,000 samples per second = 150,323,855,360,000,000 bits per second data transfer rate aka 18,790,481,920,000,000 bytes per second or 18.7 Petabytes per second which is GREAT for a single comms chip the size of a credit card !!!

      Quantum Communications aka Quantum Entanglement aka "Spooky Action at a Distance" (Albert Einstein) has been measured at 50,000x the Speed of Light by scientists in Europe, USA and China and works at any distance no matter how far apart the entangled particles are!

      Decoherence has been the BIG ISSUE and by using a related nearby nano-structure that is read/written via a pulsed laser to INFER the actual state or position of the entangled particles during a given clock cycle, we can ONLY NOW get reliable Q-Bit-based communications to accurately read-and-write actual binary data over ANY distance!

      Now you know!

      Been there done that!

      V

  2. captain_ken

    High society?

    What kind of super well funded doctor does this guy have?!

  3. myithingwontcharge

    The way quantum entanglement can be described is like a pair of socks. If I give you one of my socks and then travel to the other side of the universe, you have no idea which sock you have.

    But then if I put my sock on my right foot, your sock instantly becomes the left sock, faster than the speed of light would allow you to see my feet.

    Of course what you can do with that knowledge is where the research is being done. At present we're only just learning to walk, bare foot.

    1. JacobZ

      I don't know if that was supposed to be funny? If it was serious, it is wrong in every important way.

    2. captain veg Silver badge

      If I give you one of my socks

      How will you do that if they are entangled?

      -A.

      1. zuckzuckgo Silver badge

        Re: If I give you one of my socks

        > How will you do that if they are entangled?

        That's what "Quantum" fabric softener is for:

        https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/a8/65/e5a865fa17684419ea14b9399c52673b.jpg

    3. Potemkine! Silver badge

      If this is instantaneous, does that mean that space doesn't exist?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Instead of socks, lets do photons.

      A photon is red shifted or blue shifted depending on the motion of the observer.

      Our entangled photon pair are emitted in opposite directions and are observed by Alice and Bob.

      Alice has a motion away from the photon and to her the photon is red.

      Bob has a motion towards the photon and to him the photon is blue.

      When we measure other oscillating properties, like polarization, Alice and Bob similarly get differing results. The photons appear to be independent.

      So we filter for successful entanglement, e.g. where the wavelength is the same and thus the motion of Alice and Bob, relative to the emitter, is the same. We only consider that subset of experiments. And magically, other properties also now correlate. We sometimes do filtering explicitly, filtering for similar properties, sometimes implicitly, e.g. mounting detector Alice and Bob to the same rig as the emitter, so their motions correlate for our experiment.

      But of course, you say, (realizing the wavelength of light isn't a property of the photon, its a *net*interaction* between some oscillating property of Alice and some oscillating property of Bob and their corresponding photons). You're actually filtering to make that property the same between Alice and Bob and so the net interactions the same.

      But then our photons were always mirrored all along, only Alice and Bob's relative oscillating state (compared to the emitter) where undefined, filtering the experiments ensured Alice and Bob were oscillating the same way when the measurements occurred.

      Our photons had oscillating properties (which are motions) which added up to the net motion over space. Their macro motion is defined and knowable, so those little oscillationary motions were always defined and knowable, and must add up to the macro scale motion.

      And of course such net properties are *combinations* of properties between photon and observer, so there are more combinations than unique properties. You only need to filter for a few combinations, for other combinations to also correlate.

      Now imagined you modelled wavelength as if it was a property of the photon. You believe the photon has a particular wavelength. But you could never know what that will be, because you do not yet know the observer's oscillating pattern until you select which observer. To Alice it will be red, the Bob, blue.

      Then you have a probabilistic model trying to predict the future, such a model will be complex and imprecise and unknowable, almost magical. i.e. the Quantum model.

      And it would be prone to logic flaws, e.g. calculating the threshold by which correlation is no longer random, claiming that model has no prior knowledge of the system (which is untrue, you filtered for that subset of experimental results, that model has only the filtered data) and thus is proof of the magical nature of said system. i.e. the Bells test.

      So, here we are. A fork in the road. Down one path the universe is locally unreal, down the other path Schroedingers model is locally unreal until you select the observer with its local oscillating pattern.

      1. localzuk Silver badge

        That's all a bit more complex than an analogy involving socks though...

      2. Paul_Canada

        Entanglement deals with particle quantum spin (I.e. magnetic moment). Not really wavelength as far as I know.

    5. Paul_Canada

      The sock analogy is a common explanation of quantum entanglement but technically incorrect. The entangled particles' spins are in a state of quantum superposition UNTIL one of the particles has been observed. This basically means that both particles BOTH have an up and down spin state until you interact with one of the particles by trying to observe it, thus disturbing it and causing the joint wave of the particles to collapse into their own waves and associated particle states upon observation. This is the great spooky action at distance - the outcome had not been predetermined (I.e. like a pair of socks). The result really is determined instantaneously on the spot. Several scientific tests have shown this too.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I always thought that it was that a particle has the POTENTIAL (probability waveform) of having both an up spin and a down spin state. It doesn't have both but could be just as likely either. We don't know which it is until the probability waveform is collapsed by observing the particle. The entangled particle is then found to have the alternative spin state. The spooky bit is that if you change the spin state of the first particle, the entangled particle also changes its spin state no matter how far apart they are.

        QM is fun:-)

        1. Paul_Canada

          Ah! It's not just a potential probability, but how do we know? The double split experiment! In this experiment the particle's wave splits into two waves as it goes through the two slits and interacts with itself to form an interference pattern. The particle exists physically as a wave spread out along the length of the detector (the universe?) and then "picks" a certain single point to be when asked to be a solid particle, according to the wave's peaks - in a way that is probabilistic. Could it have an underlying mechanism? Yes, however we have yet to discover it - and so it appears that all particles really actually do spend a lot of their time existing as unintuitive waves.

          So since the double split experiment exists: The particles must really actually be travelling as real particle waves, exactly as light can travel as a wave (after all, photons are particles too).

          Kinda mind blowing that the universe works this way.

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        >This basically means that both particles BOTH have an up and down spin state until you interact with one of the particles by trying to observe it,

        And that's the same for socks. A sock in the laundry can potentially be both a left and right sock until the observer selects which foot it goes on - the other sock then instantaneously become the other foot.

        1. Paul_Canada

          The problem with the sock analogy is that it implies that the result has been determined a the time particles were created. That the two particles flying away in opposite directions already have a certain state. Which is just wrong.

    6. muuser

      I guess the socks are identical, however the act of putting one on fixes whether it is inside out or not, whereupon the other sock is revealed as outside out, or not.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sometimes I wonder if the Russians, Chinese, and others break into systems and steal information just to piss off the Americans. If so, they're certainly succeeding...

  5. BlokeInTejas

    Orson Scott Card didn't invent the term 'ansible'. He, and many others, simply re-used it.

    The term was invented by Ursula Le Guin.

    Check Wikipedia (which is correct in this instance)

    1. steelpillow Silver badge
      Boffin

      Moreover the ansible is not entirely appropriate, as le Guin assumed a Galilean simultaneity between star systems so that the plotting did not do her head in, and I believe our Card player did too.

      Closer would be James Blish's earlier Dirac communicator, which receives every message ever transmitted by one from any point in spacetime, each time it receives anything. However Blish developed this as a consequence of Relativity, while quantum entanglement operates only across the region of spacetime inhabited by its wave function (and the extent of that region is a matter of some debate - cue sum-over-histories, implicate order, transactional interpretation, and so forth).

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        However Pratchett developed this into a workable system using monarchs and the detection of regality

        1. Twanky

          So regicide* is 'sending a message'... yeah, I see what you mean.

          *Subtly different from Ronnicide.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Only in the crude binary method.

            With subtle measurement of regality in the heir (by quantum detection of pea under mattresses) and precise endangering of the monarch it is possible to transmit high fidelity analouge signals

            1. Twanky

              Oh I remember that theory... err something about princesses being able to pee through 40 mattresses?

              1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                Tip - don't Google it...

          2. M.V. Lipvig Silver badge

            Ronnicide? Wouldn't it be a war crime to send Foul 'Ol Ron to the enemy camp?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Windows

              It would be but OP is riffing on Ronnie and Reggie Kray (the Kray twins).

    2. Dante Alighieri
      Headmaster

      agreeing, sort of

      'K

  6. nsb

    LeGuin, not Card, deserves credit

    Please don't give Orson Scott Card undeserved credit for "inventing" the ansible. It's pretty clearly Ursula LeGuin -- see this article, for example:

    https://scholarblogs.emory.edu/lits/2018/10/19/ansible-a-science-word-with-emory-origins/

  7. Paul_Canada

    No ansible

    No idea why The Register bought up the ansible. This is still quantum entanglement, once either particle is probed it breaks the entanglement. There is no way to reuse the entangled particles. Thus there is no faster than light communication.

    1. StargateSg7

      Re: No ansible

      You are indeed correct! Once you TRY and directly read from or write to an entangled particle (i.e. Xenon gas particles trapped in a quantum well in our case!), it will decohere and is basically just random data. ....BUT.... if there is a nearby nano-structure of a specific proprietary type, composition, orientation and size, the POSITION or SPIN is INFERRED into that nearby nanostructure which can then be read-from AND written-to (i.e. where any new position or spin state will be SOMEHOW transferred into or out of the Q-bit WITHOUT decohering it!) via a pulsed laser!

      When I asked our in-house eggheads/boffins about the underlying Quantum Mechanics of our process of quantum entangled bits, there was much hemming and hawing so they dumbed it down for me by saying that the current STATE of a local Q-Bit (i.e. it's position or spin) can be read by the "Shadow It Casts" upon a nearby real-world nano-structure that is then sampled by a larger UV-band laser which then forms a simple ON/OFF or ZERO/ONE bitwise value.

      In order to SET THE NEW STATE of an entangled Q-bit without decohering it (aka breaking entanglement) one pulses a laser onto the nearby nanostructure when then "Casts It's Own Shadow" upon the Q-Bit which the local Q-Bit then somehow "Accepts As The New Input Value" and then immediately changes over to the new state which is immediately reflected in the far-away paired Q-Bit!

      Our internal physicists have determined via PEER-TESTED experiments that the nano-well-trapped entangled Xenon particles DO NOT DECOHERE when the nearby nano-structure is used to INFER values to-and-from the Q-Bit no matter the Earthly and Orbital distance apart! They have also tested the RUGGEDNESS of the nano-wells-on-Borosilicate which includes extremes of temperature, vibration, pressure and other Mil-Spec ruggedness metrics and the trapped Xenon particles in a sealed single-layer credit-card-sized borosilicate substrate is VERY RUGGED and lasts decades!

      The current data transfer rate is 18.7 Petabytes Per Second full-duplex (i.e. two way communications) with no errors using a 64k by 64k array of combined nanowells and INFERRED-STATE nano-structures as the Q-bit array! You need FOUR borosilicate plates for each side in order to do full-duplex communications, since one set of nanowell plates on each of the input and output sides is used as a randomization-based error correction system to ensure local-decoherence can be detected and accounted for and then error-corrected!

      On each side of the communications channel, one set of borosilicate nanowell plates is always for INCOMING READ-ONLY DATA and a second plate is used for an error-correction mechanism and another set of plates is used for OUTGOING WRITE-ONLY DATA and the second outgoing-data error-correction plate. The other side has the inverse set of four plates which get data from us and sends data to us along with the two extra ECC plates where one is used for error-correcting incoming data and the other plate is used for error-correcting outgoing data!

      AND YES! I know this BREAKS all current understandings of quantum mechanics and we can now say that those NCA eggheads/boffins are in line for a Nobel Prize!

      SO YES! There is NOW Faster Than Light Communications Available in 2023!

      V

      1. bigphil9009

        Re: No ansible

        I wonder, how do you find time to do your actual "job" at this super-secret-mega-technology base given the walls of absolutely nonsensical pseudoscience that you post here on a regular basis?

        Also, where are all the magical things that you have been promising us for the last several years? - always "coming soon" but never actually arriving...

        1. StargateSg7

          Re: No ansible

          While I am personally not part of the original development of the Xenon Nanowells-based Entanglement Communications System, I do have access to the actual scientists who DID do said development and some of them are AWARD-WINNING. And you would be surprised what is ALREADY out there from our company. Half the stuff I have illustrated in the last few years has already been released "Into The Wild" and is being distributed publicly as we speak or has been long-distributed into the public eye!

          Pseudoscience it is NOT! While my own terminology may be suspect since I am actually a Graphics Programmer and Video Production Specialist, the actual technology of Inferred-State Quantum Entanglement-based Communications is quite sound. I have quite a list of papers on such techniques from around the world and of course our own in-house papers.

          Right now in 2023, various computational and memory devices being embedded onto Borosilicate Glass substrates is the CURRENT BIG THING in computation due to our corporate efforts since it has a highly stable nature AND the ability to allow the ablation/cutting/stamping of microchannels into layers of the Borosilicate to create an active cooling system using Silicone Oil, Mineral Oil or simple Deionized /Distilled Water.

          Surface-Metallized or clear Nanowells and Nanobubbles within Borosilicate Glass can also trap Xenon or other Inert gas molecules to form readable/writeable memory storage cells at extremely high areal densities AND also form transistor-like structures which can then form logic gates and computational structures, IN ADDITION to reflecting the current state of data located in a far away location based upon a current and active level of quantum entanglement.

          Again, I am NOT the physicist, but I'm no dummy and the process and subject matter has been expressed to me in such a manner that I have a more-than-just-basic understanding of how this all works. So long one does not try to use a LASER/MASER to read or write said Q-Bit directly, it will STAY entangled with its nearby or faraway "Twin". BUT if you read or set the state of a nearby 3D nanostructure, you can get or set an INFERRED value from the SHADOW that was cast by or to the entangled Q-bit.

          I actually don't quite fully understand what the physicists mean by Quantum Shadow and I still don't quite understand on the lowest quantum physics level about HOW a LASER/MASER can read or set the value of an actual Q-bit. (i.e. I still don't fully understand HOW the nearby nanostructure state value actually TRANSFERS OVER to and from the local Q-bit itself). What i DO KNOW is that the Q-Bit state transference is STABLE and is immediately reflected in or by the other Q-Bit and can function as an actual communications system that works over long periods of time and does NOT decay/decohere due mechanical vibration, externally applied heat or cold or lareg-scale mechanical shock!

          This means on a 64k by 64k array of Q-Bit Nanowells that are stamped/cut/ablated into a glass plate about the size of a credit card, the data transfer rate exceeds 18 PetaBytes per Second!

          Again, it is NOT pseudoscience ....AND.... the best proof is THE ACTUAL DIGITAL PUDDING ITSELF being made available for tasting/use by the general public itself!

          V

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: No ansible

      Thus there is no faster than light communication.

      And a good thing too, since it would enable causality violations. You don't need FTL travel for that; any FTL transmission of information suffices.

      From the article: "While the jury is still out on whether such a device will ever be possible...". Since we don't know for certain that the universe prevents causality violations,1 we don't know whether some day we'll have causality-violating technology, like the causality weapons in some of Charles Stross's books. But it would not be a Good Thing, so the jury's pretty clear that we should hope it isn't possible.

      (And as far as the whole "quantum Internet" thing goes ... yeah, no doubt that will be rolling out soon, just after we finish the IPv6 and 5G deployments. What's the economic driver? We've had quantum-communications products for privacy purposes for years, and it's a niche market, because cryptography actually suffices for every single use case. And our capacity issues are mostly last-mile or with existing undersea cable routes and associated politics, not with how much data we can push over existing fiber.)

      1Of course we don't know anything for certain, aside from the fact that we can't know anything for certain. As Descartes' "evil genius" argument points out, you have no way of guaranteeing that your cognitive processes aren't being tampered with.

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