Twitter dismantles its Trust and Safety Council moments before meeting Twitter has taken a match to its Trust and Safety Council, the group of 100 civil rights organizations formed in 2016 to tackle issues like hate speech, child exploitation and suicide on the platform. Although an advisory association, it is just the latest in a series of sweeping cuts to Twitter under Elon Musk's tenure as …
Its apparent the author is just another melting snowflake, subtitling with a snicker, Im sure, that Musk "is number 2" and glorying in the fact he is no longer the richest person in the world (for now). Im personally happy that the council of 100 woke liberal progressives ar eno longer conceling what used the be the media mounth piece of the liberal progressive democratic party. If this is an example of what is to be considered the level of truthful, objective, ethical "technical journalism" offered by The Register, we can only hope tthat the day will come when it too learns "woke is broke".
It's called sensible, representative decision making. When everyone is allowed to vote (making the vote non-representative because it doesn't prioritise diverse votes), we get awful decision like Trump et al. being allowed to return and diminishing free speech on the platform by permitting hate against diverse individuals.
I do not understand the majority of the the haters on El Reg, the only goals appears to be hating this guy...
Why can't people stop with the hate for 5 minutes, stop judging everything that someone does every 2 seconds and do the adult thing and wait a little, be patient. Let's see if he can make a platform where people can speak openly without all the drama.
It's as though Social Media makes people maniacal.. It doesn't make sense, it should be a bastion of ideas and evolution, instead it's a cess-pit where even societie's intelligencia comes to vent one's spleen..
Think about it before replying, are you just adding to the hate or do you have something to offer.
free speech is DYING. To the mind of the privileged, it might seem that free speech is saying whatever you want but diverse free speech cannot flourish if everyone is permitted to spew disgusting hatred
To protect free speech, it is more important that everyone feels free to speak than the oppressors feel free to say everything to the opressed. As Bob Dylan once said "please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand"
You use the word "haters" but I don't see any justification for the use of that word. Lots of people here are "critics" of Musk and in my opinion that's a fair stance to take.
Those that are critical of him are typically basing their opinions not on the last 2 seconds or even on just his post-buyout actions but on many years of his behaviour, comments and conduct.
In my opinion, he's a very unpleasant person. I certainly don't hate him but I will certainly criticise numerous of his activities with - again, in my opinion, but it would seem with agreement of many others - very good evidence to support me.
I can't speak for the other poster, but I think there is a difference between "critics" and "haters".
Humbly, I consider myself a critic of some of his actions (I also agree with some others, and the rest I just observe with morbid curiosity), but I am most definitely not a hater.
I've got the impression that many people hate him because his trolling serves as a sort of mirror in which you see your reflection.
For instance, there was this "social studies" woman that went all hysterical because he posted a rabbit emoji. According to her, a rabbit represents intolerance, racism, and a bunch of other nasty things ending in -ism.
Then someone pointed out that it could just as well be a Monty Python reference. :)
He's a master troll, no doubt, and I suppose there is a risk of finding himself in Brian's position as an accidental messiah, to use another Monty Python reference, but it's really up to people to use their brains.
These people are part of the perpetually offended class who find isms in EVERYTHING! They have mostly never existed outside of academia or some other echo chamber and they feed off their own outrage and the feeling of moral superiority when they find a target while taking any criticism as a personal attack.
4chan has been EPIC in trolling these people. Drinking milk, the OK hand sign, frogs.
> It's as though Social Media makes people maniacal
Isn't that basically what is being responded to? Not just some vague idea of "hate" but pointing out explicitly where Musk's own Social Media posts appear to be maniacal. Such as the one aimed at Yoel Roth, misrepresenting even just the snippet of the PhD included in the tweet.
> do the adult thing and wait a little, be patient
For some people (which possibly includes a lot of the commenters here) Twitter is not anything of any value, beyond being something to stare at in bewilderment. Personally, it makes no difference if Twitter lives or dies: I created my account to verify claims made in articles such as this one and the interest will peter out at some point.
However, there are those for whom Twitter is important - for thousands, at least, it impacts their livelihood directly, for others (pick a number) they have to make decisions day to day about how they interact with Twitter the company. It is the story of these people that is the real discussion - and that isn't one that involves just waiting. And there are those who are reportedly even endangered by the reactions to events surrounding Twitter.
> Let's see if he can make a platform where people can speak openly without all the drama.
That is really the least important side of all this.
> Think about it before replying, are you just adding to the hate or do you have something to offer.
What I have to offer is a request to you - and others - to stop trying to trivialise the discussion by turning it into some kind of simple "you just hate him" / "you just love him" slapping match.
Good points in there, but I don't think the other poster was trying to trivialise anything.
These words of his apply just as well to Musk as to anyone else:
> It's as though Social Media makes people maniacal.. It doesn't make sense, it should be a bastion of ideas and evolution, instead it's a cess-pit where even societie's intelligencia comes to vent one's spleen..
I do disagree with you on this point:
> It is the story of these people that is the real discussion
Without more details, I don't think that's of particular relevance in the wider context, and it certainly does not justify hate or demagogy.
> I don't think the other poster was trying to trivialise anything.
Sorry, but the first words of his post were
>> I do not understand the majority of the the haters on El Reg, the only goals appears to be hating this guy...
That entire post was just about "haters" - and using that approach will trivialise *any* issue.
> I do disagree with you on this point:
>> It is the story of these people that is the real discussion
> Without more details, I don't think that's of particular relevance in the wider context
Ah well, we disagree. But whatever Twitter becomes, the important point (to my mind) is how it will damage people[1] and whether its management cares about that - which can be judged by watching what the management reactions are to the damage being done under now under their care.
[1] only damage because their is nothing positive, that I'm aware of, that Twitter can provide which is in any way unique to Twitter. Advertising, marketing, having slanging matches, interminable political name calling or even, in the extremes, sharing pictures of the new kitten with your family: if Twitter vanishes tomorrow there are outlets for all of those elsewhere.
> Why can't people stop with the hate for 5 minutes, stop judging everything that someone does every 2 seconds and do the adult thing and wait a little, be patient. Let's see if he can make a platform where people can speak openly without all the drama.
Very well said, monsieur.
It's not often that I agree with you, but your post is so common sense that it would be preposterous not to.
What used to be a little bit of light fun poking at Bill Gates or Steve Jobs has now become full on hatred towards people that are not considered to be in the the correct political side.
That's not reporting , that's just fueling a bad situation, El Reg has become an echo chamber. The actual good people don't comment because they don't want the hassle that goes along with making a negative remark.
The comments are just using the same emotional blackmail as elsewhere
Why do the left care about Twitter so much , other platforms exist. El Reg has been overtaken by a minority of shouty leftists that don't want to debate, they just want to call people out using the usual Homophobe transphobe, misogynist, racist rhetoric. It's the only game they know how to play..
I've been en El Reg since 2008, it's unbelievable how far down hill it's gone. The American office has obviously taken control of who writes what...
Why do the left care about Twitter so much
This is really not about politics. I don't care what political views are allowed or disallowed on Twitter. Musk has bought it and can decide, if he wishes, that the only tweets allowed are retweets of things he says. Or any other message he decides. It is his to do with as he wishes.
However, he is not free to abuse people. The Trust and Safety Council bear no responsibility for any decisions or actions made by the previous management. They have been providing advice, based on their considerable experience and expertise, on request. They made Twitter better, and they made it more successful by increasing its reach to the communities they came from. If Twitter no longer wants that, that is fine - it will turn into Truth Social and become a tiny echo chamber for a bunch of losers but if that is what the owner wants, that is fine.
The individuals who advised, and even those who took decisions and acted for, the previous management do not deserve personal abuse. They were doing their job, in they way they felt best. It was just a job. If you don't agree with their actions, that is fine - instruct them to act differently or even fire them. But it is not acceptable to abuse them. Nor is it acceptable to fire up unstable idiots who may attack them.
I was with you right up to the last sentence.
" Nor is it acceptable to fire up unstable idiots who may attack them."
That's a dangerous line to take. What he's saying is basically true, even if not the main point of the thesis. But if people choose to get "fired up" about it, that's surely down to them individually? If what he's saying are lies, that's a different matter and he deserves to go the same route as Alex Jones.
It's the woke mind virus taking over. ;-)
I'm JOKING. Sort of. El Reg does seem to be like all the other Silicon Valley lefty publications. If you're not "progressive" you must be a a right wing nazi, and therefore I'm going to call you that.
It's not that you are making fun of Elon, it's that you seem to be negative about EVERYTHING that he does. I think he's even more of a wanker than Steve Jobs, and doing less useful stuff. However, SOME of the things he's doing are interesting and useful. Like shining a light on the collusion between government, the tech press and Twitter. Almost certainly the same thing is happening at Google, Facebook, LinkedIN and all the others. THAT'S THE REAL STORY. Why don't you look into that?
It's certainly a lot less fun than it used to be, for much of my free time, I'll be taking my eyeballs somewhere else.
There's a lot of regurgitating press releases, and a lot less of the excellent series about Nokia (for example) and sending balloons into space, or trying pub nosh, or "Biting the Hand". I don't care about SAP/HANA, and neither does anyone else.
Be edgy. The world doesn't need another CNET.
@Steve Button
"Like shining a light on the collusion between government, the tech press and Twitter."
Considering how big the 'Twitter files' are I am disappointed how little the news is jumping on this. Even having to kick out one of the 'reviewers' for suspicion of being an FBI connection and 'vetting' the twitter files without Musk knowing.
I know! Amen to that.
When I read The Twitter Files (not so much the first one) my jaw dropped, and I thought holy shit, all that stuff we suspected they were doing, they are actually doing. And no one seems to care. I don't care which side of politics you support, and I can see arguments for both being liberal and conservative, but what I really hate is unfairness. It's not as if someone was putting a finger on the scale to balance things towards liberal, it's putting a size 11 boot on the scale.
Democrats would contact Twitter to ask for something to be censored, and they would just come back "sorted" (or whatever word). Republicans would also demand things be censored and that would be mostly ignored.
Trump was BANNED for saying "The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, American First, and Make America Great Again, will have a Giant Voice long into the future,” and “They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!”. ** I'm really no fan of Trump **, but that's really not incitement to violence. They just didn't want him on the platform, and were looking for an excuse to take him off. Scandalous.
Most of the media are just looking the other way and whistling. Nothing to see here. Move along. These are not the droids you are looking for.
Or if they do talk about it, for example Hunter Biden they make out it's about his dick picks, and not the fact that he got a high level lucrative position at a Ukrainian oil company because he was the son of Joe. (presumably it wasn't for his oil industry experience!?).
well considering that the twitler files are pretty much right wing bollocks dressed up as facts. and all that is false right wing talking points
You know thats not what the orange twat was banned for.
WTF is it with right wing bollock talkers always talking bollocks.
and all the pretend "i'm not a trump supporter" bollocks.
" I don't care which side of politics you support, and I can see arguments for both being liberal and conservative"
Well considering "liberal" = "right loons" and "conservative" = "right wing Qloons possibly to the right of hitler".
you seem to only support right wing shit.
FFs democrats are mostly centre right.
You don't seem to know what the fuck is anything on the left
> When I read The Twitter Files (not so much the first one) my jaw dropped
To be honest, those show a lack of transparency that really shouldn't have been there, but there's no real smoking gun, is there?
I'm also not sure how transparent or balanced the "investigation" on these "files" is. I mean, are they representative of the full picture or just one side of it?
"I'm also not sure how transparent or balanced the "investigation" on these "files" is. I mean, are they representative of the full picture or just one side of it?"
That's exactly why Taibibi and Weiss were chosed as they were known to be objective in their research. Taibibi is certainely no conservative as the MSM have now tried to smear him..
He honestly appears to be a down to earth kind of guy just doing what a journalist should do: Reporting on matters objectively and then letting us decide for ourselves.
Do you have something to approach against Taibibi ou Weiss, why are making the insinuation that it is not balanaced ?
haha, balenced.
like including the urls biden(private citizen wanted blocked, mostly dick pics)
but mentioning in passing that orange twats white house (part of the GOV) was also blocking, but does not include the urls of what was it was blocking.
So not balenced reporting at all.
> It's certainly a lot less fun than it used to be,
True that. I loved the irreverent tabloid take on IT news from back in the Heines days. It was also equally offensive to pretty much everyone who was not the Queen, but hardly ever disrespectful.
I enjoyed very much Williams' technical deep dive articles, but his .com ElReg is a bland shadow of its former self, much like American remakes in general :) Mind, the UK has become a lot more Americanised too. Conquered by its own colony. :-/
> for much of my free time, I'll be taking my eyeballs somewhere else.
Recommendations *much* welcome, please!
> Why do the left care about Twitter so much , other platforms exist. El Reg has been overtaken by a minority of shouty leftists
I do disagree with this (and as a leftist, take slight offence), unless you're talking about whatever Americans call "the left", which is what we in Europe (and a minority in the US) call "the right".
To wit:
https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2019/08/FANTASIA/60136
https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2019/08/HALIMI/60163
I do agree that we're seeing an increase in "San Francisco Talibans" here, but well, it takes all sorts.
I'm on the left politically - and I agree with the comment that there is an increasing intolerance of opposing views, and it is definitely coming far more from the left than the right.
It is typified by the Covidian Cult, which has adherents from all poltical avenues but the most rabid behaviour has come from the left, who are quick to shout 'misinformation', 'disinformation', 'false information', 'fake news' about anything they don't agree with, and demand that it is censored. It's this sort of behaviour which causes deepening divisions in societies and is ultimately to nobody's benefit. In the case of the Covidians, it often seemed to be that they didn't actually have a reasoned response to whatever they were criticising and so demanded that it be censored if it didn't agree with "The Science", (which should be termed "The Approved Narrative"). Science is not about stating something dogmatically as a 'fact' and demanding that opposing views be censored: that's the behaviour of fundamentalist religions. Science is, or should be, about presenting both sides of any disagreement to allow conclusions to be drawn by listeners as to which is the most compelling. But that does of course mean presenting actual evidence, rather than sticking fingers in ears and shouting "Safe and Effective" repeatedly.
> Until we make fun of the thing you like. I bet if we wrote a gushing piece saying how Elon is a genius, and it's everyone else who is wrong,
If that is addressed to me, I'm happy to say that you're wrong.
Firstly because I have no particular opinion on Mr Musk and certainly don't like or dislike him.
> you'd be falling over yourself to thank our objective, truthful journalism.
I probably wouldn't, though I'd probably complain less than if (when) you write a hit piece.
I am all for humour, self deprecation and of course, criticism. I just think that that can be achieved without excessive personal attacks and without compromising journalistic ethics, such as when you make false claims, as you did a few articles ago (I can look up the specific article if interested).
If I have praised Richard for this article is because of its journalistic quality, most certainly *not* because of it confirming my biases (or not). I'm disappointed that you think otherwise.
Lastly, in this day and age, I'm not sure to what extent we should be mixing information and entertainment in the same article, or criticise or make fun of people to the point of dehumanising them, regardless of who they are. Everyone is someone's child.
Define "woke", magatard.
You're basically attacking people who are against racism, sexism, and homophobia.
What a nasty piece of work you are. It's only because of the hard-of-thinking like you that the obvious Qanon, anti-vax, anti-democracy etc. likes have to be censored.
If you weren't such an insecure sheep who believe everything some rando posts anonymously, this type of shite could remain.. You need protecting from yourselves. It's what a civil society does.
And "Melting snowflake"? Not all thick people are racist maga-morons, but all racist maga morons are thick... Just don't ever leave your parents basement.
P.S. Musk will never love you back.
While I respect peoples right to hold “ conservative” views ( doublespeak for radical right wing ideology which uses the idea of “freedom” to impose their moral code on unbelievers ).
What really amazes me is their ability to ignore any inconvenient fact. How can a platform that let Donald Trump vent his racist hateful mean and spiteful rants for years be labelled left wing and woke?
A real conservative would year for a return to polite discourse and mutual respect and an end to the name calling and insults.
@James Anderson
"What really amazes me is their ability to ignore any inconvenient fact. How can a platform that let Donald Trump vent his racist hateful mean and spiteful rants for years be labelled left wing and woke?"
Which platform? You dont mean twitter do you?
> How can a platform that let Donald Trump vent his racist hateful mean and spiteful rants for years be labelled left wing and woke?
There's a school of thought on philosophy that says that we are defined by who are enemies are, without them we are nothing.
Could that answer your question?
Really? As the "woke" obsessed print media is dying on its feet, with its subscriber base rapidly shrinking due to an ever climbing average age, the fact that younger millenials (mid 20s to early 30s), Gen Z and Gen A are majority in favour of equal rights and diversity and so aren't interested in the newspaper version of the odd person in the park screaming that the cows are plotting revolution
A fact-based article about Musk? Are you kidding? The Reg hates Musk and is against anything he does. We've seen the proof of how those committees operated. It was just one big liberal propaganda machine designed to bury opinions that were contrary while proclaiming it was all about "safety" and "fairness." People here like that approach though, like Big Brother knows what's best for you.
Apparently the writers here are also big believers in the government providing "cradle-to-grave" care that's barely one step ahead of the socialism (most) claim to despise. Notice that the plan to pay for all that utopia is always "tax the rich" -- as if anyone ever got rich in a socialist society!
And to think he insisted that all those hipsters return to the workplace when they were so chill at home! How DARE he treat it like a business?! Damn his success! (but tax it anyway)
I'd like for those foaming-at-the-mouth Americans who think anything to the left of Genghis Khan is "far left" and consider their Democratic party to be "Marxist" to be made to live under an *actual* far-left Marxist society.
You know, just to see if they could tell the difference.
And also for a laugh. :-)
1) It is pretty stupid to get rid of a very experienced group of people giving you the benefit of their advice. You can always choose to ignore it if you disagree, and you may learn something useful.
2) It is not acceptable to stir up hatred against a group of people who have been considering hard questions and giving advice, by request. You may disagree with their advice but it is not acceptable to put their safety at risk.
By the looks of it the group has been busy working on pushing their own political ideology, sometimes at the request of government actors, rather than giving advice. They allow people who fit their political ideology to stir up hatred against people who do not share their political ideology. They are now reaping what they previously sowed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mB26uArS88
Basically "its OK if I do it as I am morally superior" and "when I do it there is context".
This post has been deleted by its author
Freedom is never absolute. Your freedom of movement at a four way stop is curbed for the greater safety of society and so there is an increasing understanding among governments that some forms of individual speech serve no purpose in a healthy society.
In Canada, hate speech is a criminal offence and our decades old curbs clearly need updating to stop the lies, disinformation and fomenting that are now amplified by commercial algorithms. No person who assumes a public profile should be allowed to damage trust in the public discourse, or profit from that damage.
Musk is certainly worthy of ridicule, before his business plan is complete, because he has used his high profile to promote a false concept of 'absolute free speech'. This false concept has been used here as a justification for incitement and aggression, that have not advanced the discussion. It has caused an aggressive atmosphere that repels the healthy debate of ideas and lowers the standard to simple opposition.
Typically I find the comments at the Reg a worthy read and the exchange of a range of ideas is very informative and entertaining. Most of this discussion was not that. And THIS is the point. We can do so much better than this. Musk and some commenters here have simply lowered the bar to throwing pies at one another.
Here, here. Free speech is only truly free if it empowers and promotes the speech of the oppressed. In fact, the standard position of the oppressors (cishet able neurotypical white christian males) should be silence because that is the only way to ensure everyone is heard and feels free to speak. For others, intersectional standards of oppresion should be considered to decide who gets there turn. At the same time, silence is violence, so be sure to amplify the voices that need to be amplified.
If this seems dystopian to you, remember that to the oppressors, equality feels like discrimination.
A lot of today’s texts defending curbing freedom of speech, saying that “freedom is not absolute” and that there should be “responsibility for speech” are very much like the texts by Soviet propagandists circa 1980.
Effectively they repeat what every dictator’s propaganda said to explain why they were jailing opposition.
The evidence is all around you, it maintains the world you live in, yet nearly everyone is distracted by shiny, logical-sounding axioms.
In the Western tradition, a statute or regulation merely sets out the gross goals of a law, the shoulder cases or the ultimate definition of the scope, application and limitation of a law are derived from the history of court judgments on the issue; the case law. The third leg on the stool is 'community standard', the context for the adjudication. Rape law, just a few decades ago, was judged in the context that 'women shouldn't wear short skirts or go to bars' if they didn't want to be raped. The community standard has evolved and now men are convicted if they use a woman's appearance as a pretext to an attack.
In the case of 'free speech', we have curbs and prohibitions that go back centuries. You will recognize the ones that protect against lies, as contract, fraud and libel laws. The ones that protect against misrepresentation exist under advertising, labelling and consumer protection. The common thread in all of them is they protect money. Enter the community standard again and we have a growing understanding that it is important to protect the integrity of public discourse. Trust in public discourse is essential to a healthy democracy.
Unfortunately, a string of politicians and public figures around the world have done the math and decided that the segment of the population that can be activated by invective, fomenting and lies, is often sufficiently large to give them a win in an election or deliver a business advantage. A person who is willing to burn down the system to win, is not contributing to a sustainable society. A concept unequivocally established in the examples above.
The Soviet Union was an exemplar of zero trust for public discourse and both personal behaviour and politics were severely damaged as a result. Over my lifetime, the great shock to me has been watching major powers in the West slide into exactly the same characteristics.
The political problem for the immediate future, is reducing this explanation to a soundbite that is more widely digestible. Until then, the liars can use shiny axiomatic statements to defeat the truth at every turn.
Thank you for your upvotes. Many of you work at the pointy end of this issue and your thoughtful attention is appreciated and important.
Cheers
On Taiwan
“My recommendation … would be to figure out a special administrative zone for Taiwan that is reasonably palatable, probably won’t make everyone happy,” Musk told the Financial Times in an interview published on Friday. “And it’s possible, and I think probably, in fact, that they could have an arrangement that’s more lenient than Hong Kong.”
Don't forget, Hong Kong itself had an arrangement more lenient than what it has now, and predictably that vanished.
On CCP manipulation of Twitter
"Chinese bots are flooding Twitter with 'escort ads', possibly to make it more difficult for Chinese users to access information about the mass protests," wrote Mengyu Dong, a researcher with the Stanford Internet Observatory, a social media research project, in a Twitter post. "Some of these [accounts] have been dormant for years, only to become active yesterday after protests broke out in China."
The amount of pro psy ops on Twitter is ridiculous! At least with new Verified they will pay $8 for the privilege haha," [Musk] tweeted. Then he followed up with an image of hate symbol Pepe the Frog, encircled by the phrase, "Honestly I don't care about this particular psyop."
Some years ago I posted on Ars Technica news about the new China Telsa factory, saying it would lead to the CCP attempting to manipulate Musk. I got massively downvoted. But I never imagined Musk would be so blatant and actually lovin' the abuse up like he is now.
There must be a good reason to respect Musk and his choice to use Twitter's soft power to ingratiate himself with the CCP. However due perhaps to my self brainwashing I'm having trouble seeing it. Can someone help me, please?
The better Muskie kills Twitter, the better. It causes much more sufferings than good things through online harassment, hate speech and conspiracies. Muskie does really a good job about bringing Twitter to its knees. In a short time, Parler will seem like a left-wing propaganda tool compared to the cesspit-like Twitter.
Of course, some as marketers and journalists will be sorry because Twitter made the work for them, but is this important in the context of the greater good?
== Bring us Dabbsy back! ==
In other news Twitter will be forcing personalized advertising on all users and is considering using location and phone numbers to target ads, in spite of GDPR y CCPR.
Also they have apparently deleted the country code for Ukraine from the list of accepted countries for SMS. Free speech for some, but not for others.
Obligatory targeted advertising, forcing people to share location and phone number
Ukraine's country code removed from country code list - as soon as Twitter notices "unusual activity" (pretty much every new account), most Ukrainians won't be able to give a phone number and the account will be limited.
In addition to burying posts which have Ukrainian content (same thread).
*This is a repost as the entire threat appears to have been nuked but I feel this post is worth preserving in the conversation of twitter and 'trust and safety'
@Steve Button
"Like shining a light on the collusion between government, the tech press and Twitter."
Considering how big the 'Twitter files' are I am disappointed how little the news is jumping on this. Even having to kick out one of the 'reviewers' for suspicion of being an FBI connection and 'vetting' the twitter files without Musk knowing.
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