Windows 11 still not winning the OS popularity contest Microsoft has released an out-of-band update to nudge laggards toward Windows 11 amid a migration pace that company executives would undoubtedly prefer is rather faster. The software giant is offering an option of upgrading to Windows 11 as an out of box experience to its Windows 10 22H2 installed base, the main aim being to …
@ecofeco
"ME was bad. Very bad."
I concur.
I tried installing it (received it as part of my MCSE subscription) on six different work PC's, to see if it was an improvement over '98.
These machines ran '98 without problems, and were also absolutely fine with Windows 2000 (also my favourite Windows. Actually, the only version of Windows I liked).
I also tried installing it on my work PC (which ran Windows 2000 server as a desktop).
Most of them did not/could not complete the installation, mostly due to blue screens, but some just ran partway and then halted. Those that could complete the installation and managed to boot into a desktop, were either very sluggish, or would hang, or would reboot randomly. The others just blue-screened; either during boot, or whilst in use. Regularly.
I finally gave up in disgust and let HO know that, if they had not already tried it (as there was some talk about moving to ME, starting with the handful of Windows 3.11 and then replacing '95, which was the main operating system used, apart from the latest machines that sported '98), they must save themselves the effort and either go with 2000, or wait for whatever replaces ME.
It wasn't pointless. It was a great example of why people should use OS/2 instead.
(Yes, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc were also available. Circa 2000 I was using a Thinkpad with multiple boot drives sitting in my computer bag, so I could shut down, swap drives, and use OS/2 or Linux or NT [hadn't updated to 2K at that point] as need arose. But Linux and the BSDs weren't easy for non-technical folks at the time.)
I worked at a small computer shop at the time when ME came out, offering new builds and repairing 3rd party builds.
The percentage of issues (mostly BSODs) was quite high with ME, to the point that we stopped offering it as an install option and just leapt to XP when that came out. Our builds were varied, with different manufacturers - they all seemed to have issues.
I'm sure there were some machines with ME which worked (I've heard the rumours), but our experience was quite negative.
I am quite happily using Win 11 here on my work laptop, and it's fine.
It not better than Win10, but not really worse either in my view.
Microsoft's problem is that they have decided that users are not allowed to upgrade on perfectly good devices due to some completely arbitrary reason.
Why can't I run Win 11 on a 6 year old Dell Latitude 7470 I have in my possession? It has 16 GB of RAM and a 4-core processor, but is not good enough apparently.
I concur with your assessment. It's incorrect to describe 11 as particularly bad. In many ways, it works the same as 10 did. It has some new features, and for me none of these are at all important. The main reasons it hasn't been adopted is that perfectly functional equipment can't have it, so most companies don't necessarily need to roll out an update that won't cover all of the devices they manage. And that there isn't anything really gained by doing it. Maybe 2025 will bring changes, but given that Windows 7 is still represented, maybe that won't do much either.
> In many ways, it works the same as 10 did.
As I said elsewhere, it's clearly Windows 10 SE...
I was "gifted" with Win11 Home on my new laptop, and while I do think it's terribly ugly, awkward and terminally user-unfriendly, I managed to contain the worst and most annoying of it with a couple 3rd party programs I had heard about here (OOShutUp and ExplorerPatcher).
I'm still using Linux, but the weekly booting of Windows to do firmware upgrades and the occasional game isn't such a chore anymore. From what I've seen, it's just Win10 with some additional, strictly useless bells and whistles. I wouldn't want to be forced to seriously work on it, but after being cleaned with OOShutUp and ExplorerPatcher it is usable.
They added Nested-V for AMD, new robocopy /IoRate, SMB compression, better Linux Subsystem. Effectively: Only very nerdy features 99% don't use or even know about. The first two are my reasons, but the bugs in 22H2 keep me from upgrading my 21H2 install and somewhat regretting switching to Win11. Though only very nerdy users stumble across such bugs.
I too needed the AMD nested virtualisation and only really exited Win10 because of this needed feature. If it wasn't for M$ dragging it feet on nested virtualisation I'd have stuck with Win10.
WSL is ok from the small amount of playing about I've done with it, so too for WSA which works sort-of but is very limited in supported apps thus far.
There are a few glaring UI bugs and niggles in Win11 which they need to fix.
A recurring theme with recent Windows versions - the stuff behind the scenes gets better, whilst the stuff that's front and centre gets worse and worse. Give me a native classic theme (note, properly classic, none of this Aero nonsense) that doesn't require the OS to be patched with third-party tools, which sits atop the underlying core OS functionality, and I'll sing W11's praises from the rooftops.
I've taken to totally ignoring the start menu on versions of Windows >= 8. All I do is click the button and type what I'm looking for. Works fine, although on old Windows 10 releases you need to manually disable Cortana searching the internet FIRST for some reason, Windows 11 works better in that regard.
That's true of updates and new versions of every M$ product. You spend ages switching off stuff that nobody asked for and nobody wants. Case in point. The two blue arrows which magically appeared in W10 file explorer to indicate a compressed file. There is an option to display compressed files in a different colour, which had been there for years, and I have never seen enabled on any users system. Why you want to know a file is compressed when the o/s handles it transparently, is anyone's guess.
In fairness it's the second or third worst since Windows ME - W8 / 8.1 were worse (depending on whether you count them as two turds or one turd which was later polished a bit.
Many would say Vista was worse but I don't actually think it was - run it on suitable hardware (it was an absolute dog on the minimum specs supported), dial down the UAT settings and it was tolerable.
I'd agree, except I'd say dial up the UAC settings (except for the damned OYS "guess if this program might require elevation" heuristics, which were a huge pain int he ass). UAC was a huge, huge improvement on the "everyone's just an administrator, get over it" bullshit that prevailed on earlier versions of Windows. And if you set it to "prompt for credentials on the secure desktop" it was even a reasonable security boundary – not perfect (nothing is), but a very big increase in the work factor for attacks.
I'd argue it's the best release since Windows 7 rather than the worst since ME. Windows 10 was ok but still had quite a bit of the failed Windows 8 interface kicking around, and some really primitive UI that made it look like Microsoft couldn't afford a design department. Windows 11 is a lot more polished and consistent.
It's not perfect - the new start menu was initially very limited, and the hardware requirements are frustrating, but on the right machine, it's a really nice OS.
It's interesting to see this discussion about Windows 11, even though it's been a year since the thread was active. Microsoft's attempts to encourage users to transition from Windows 10 to Windows 11 have been ongoing. The opinions about Windows 11, compared to its predecessor, Windows 10, have likely evolved over this time.
It is pointless them whining that nobody is using their new OS when they have effectively limited it to new (or nearly new) PCs. I'm certainly not going to upgrade to it on my home PC as it's a 7 year old i7-4790 Haswell and Windows 11 is incapable of running on such a venerable antique piece of crap,... that somehow seems to manage to run everything just fine under Windows 10 (21H2) including a variety of PC games. If they insist on putting such stupidly restrictive requirements into their latest effort, then hardly anyone is going to upgrade to it. By the time I get around to replacing this PC Win12 will be out anyways. <LOL>
I've found in testing (VM, host meets all the requirements apart from the CPU) that it worked and updated OK up until the annual feature update, but it refused to install that by any of the update methods. A clean install may have worked, but I couldn't be arsed!
> Why do people down-vote comments like this but not post a response?
Silent downvotes are the inarticulate grunts of the more primitive among us, who know they disagree for some reason but aren't articulate enough to put their reservations into comprehensible words...
The updates are not useless, they are actually highly profitable for Microsoft and the PC manufacturers - I need to upgrade my Windows 7 PC by throwing it in the trash can and buying a new PC ... but the new PC will need to be thrown away when Windows 11 upgrades to Windows 12 won't it? I'd better get my boss's credit cards out of his jacket.
Most importantly, If MS doesn't explicitly promise that X+Y setup will work and support security updates the same as on a "qualified" machine, then there is the possibility of one day silently failing to continue support. OK for home use but maybe not at a business level.
<LOL> My garage PC is the one I had prior to the current i7-4790. That is also running 21H2 but on a Q9550 with 8GB RAM. I only use that to play music and access service manuals etc. No idea how old that is but I think I bought it in Dec 08 so it's probably 14 years old. I installed an SSD and upgraded the the GFX to a 750Ti, about 5 years ago.
My personal laptop is a few year old Lenovo and it wouldn’t let me upgrade to Windows 11 (which I like) but as I’ve only turned it on about twice in the past three years I’m not that bothered.
iPads do everything I need for personal use, it’s only work that I need a decent PC and multiple monitors for.
But that’s just me.
All these "Windows 7 actually increased market share" stories (as it seems a regular thing) imply to me that the market as a whole is shrinking.
Old reliable machines presumably stay that way, but newer ones get dumped through churn (eg 3 year refresh cycle, but with fewer replacements coming in)
To this day I still have my high school's XP volume license product key memorized. I typed it in so many times installing Windows on computers as a member of the student technical support team... we didn't have any automated deployment tools at the time. But I've used parts of the key to help come up with secure passwords that I can memorize :‑D :-))
You know you could make a setupp.ini for your Windows XP install to store the key and set a few other settings?
Win7 can be done manually via phone activation. The Microsoft operator took longer finding the activation tool on their end than time spent trying to talk me out of activating it.
I suspect that likewise, XP can be done via the same route as well if you have a valid licence key.
>Finding an XP SP3 ISO is easy
Agree, any OEM ISO will do, just need to personalise it to the motherboard's serialisation so it activates without needed to access the servers.
The most difficult CD/ISO I had to trackdown a few years back was an XP Pro x64 Edition SP2C - it was the only edition that recognised my motherboards serial number.
> what is difficult is activating that XP installation..
From memory, MS had promised to keep the activation service running untril 2029...
But if that fails, there is the telephone...
I ended up replacing my desktop machine because Micr$oft didn't like on-board video and refused to update my machine to 10. Now M$ doesn't want to upgrade the new computer to 11 because it doesn't like the processor. I'm no longer using the app I was using on 7. Maybe it's time to make a clean break and switch to Linux.
It's worth doing, in my opinion, if doing it for the right reasons and if prepared for it. I switched to Ubuntu as my main OS in 2016, and I've never regretted it, but it was my 3rd attempt. For anyone who's considering making the move, I would advise that if doing it through dislike or frustration with another system, you will likely get frustrated with any Linux distro at some point also. I think it's best to be motivated to move towards Linux, rather than away from MS, if that makes sense.
For anyone who doesn't know much about Linux and is considering making the move, three good distributions to try are Ubuntu, Fedora and Elementary. There are plenty more out there, but these are the first to come into my mind when I think about good ones for new (and existing) users. Be prepared to learn about the following things in your endeavours:
- Package managers. Ubuntu is mostly apt/snap. Elementary is mostly apt/flatpak. Fedora is mostly rpm. Flatpak/Flathub will work on them all, but might need installed first. Never install the same app via multiple methods. Be aware that apps installed via snap and flatpak are sandboxed and may need permissions tweaked to work perfectly.
- Proprietary codecs that are installed out-of-the-box in Windows/Mac might require extra steps to install, like libdvdcss for watching DVDs (does anyone still use those other than me?), or encoders for mp3 etc.
- If you use the command line a lot, get used to typing "sudo". This isn't a bad thing. Get used to it and roll with it.
- Most things work out-of-the-box these days, and the things that need configured can mostly be done via the UI, like network settings etc. But, now and again, you may need to use the command line. Printers are way easier than they used to be, and I never even have to mess with drivers any more. My network printer "just works" and doesn't cause frustration like they did in the old days.
- If you're a gamer, gaming in Linux is way better than it used to be. Steam has some native titles, and Proton runs a lot of non-native games quite well these days. Crossover is not free, but it also works quite well for some tricky titles. PlayOnLinux aims to make management of Wine much easier, but is rough around the edges. I use POL for certain games, but it takes a bit of figuring out sometimes. If you have an nvidia card, you might need to install the proprietary drivers. Read up on how to do this for your distro; it's not usually too difficult, but might be a bit more than clicking an exe like in Windows. If you're a hardcore gamer, then you'd do well to take the time to learn about wine. It can be difficult at times, but will make your life easier at some point.
TL;DR: Linux isn't necessarily *better* it's *different*. be prepared to learn with curiosity and you'll probably get on great.
My main worry about moving to Linux for everything was the gaming side. I don't have a lot of games but I am a bit of a completionist and there are some I haven't finished exploring. I did try WINE etc a few years ago with mixed results so backed off to allow them more Dev time.
I treated myself to a new gaming spec laptop which came with Windows 11 and a whole orchestra of bells and whistles but in the past couple of months it has started freezing when I close games be that locally installed or run from Steam. I have made sure all the updates are in place and generally been a good nodding dog but I have now ordered a fresh SSD to put in it so I can set it up on Linux and see how it behaves as I don't think it could be much worse.
Mint makes a good everyday alternative to Windows.
I use dual boot because the Linux implementation inside W10 wasn't that well done -- messy, incompatible filesystem etc. (I was expecting something that worked like Cygwin but instead got the "embrace, extend, extinguish" du jour.)
(If you've never worked with Cygwin its used widely to allow larger scale development systems for industrial processors and FPGAs to run on a Windows environment. Its a Linux emulator and you end up with the rather neat trick of being being able to run Linux shell commands from the "DOS" prompt (that is, you could do the whole Powershell thing a decade or more ago but without the EEE extensions that M$ slips in.)(Anyway, I prefer TCL or Perl myself, Old School.)
Microsoft are somewhat famed for alternating between a good version and a terrible one: That they would release a POS then work to fix all the mistakes and errors to release something that was usable.
Then, also, they've a reputation for releasing what is in effect a Beta version to get the public to test the new version on a wider variety of hardware (this isn't limited to Microsoft, either - seems to be a trend with most software houses these days).
Plus, once we've got a version working how we like it, we don't want to upgrade and start all over again: We want to enjoy what we've got and not change anything until it breaks - which will happen when M$ release a buggy patch to force people off the older versions. Not that anyone will notice - M$ seem happy to release buggy patches fairly regularly. Makes me wonder if this is deliberate.
As ever, it's greed at play, and not just in terms of charging people for something they don't want and really don't need. Rather, it's an exercise in control: You don't own that PC, M$ does! (Yes, I'm old enough to remember that argument.) That attitude is why people resist M$'s demand we comply with their decree that all will move to Win11! Even though Win10 was initially promised to be the last version of Windows as from then on it would just be patches and updates to keep up with changing hardware...
So I'll wait to see if Win12 is any good and maybe I'll move to that.
Not sorry to disappoint but won't be holding my breath until then.
So I'll wait to see if Win12 is any good and maybe I'll move to that.
I won't move to that (nor Win11), as far as I am concerned, that Microsoft promise that Win10 is the latest version will remain true, at least as far as installing on computers goes. I'll decide which version of Linux to use once Win10 won't install anymore.
"So I'll wait to see if Win12 is any good and maybe I'll move to that."
Well, you shouldn't have too long to wait, as Windows 12 will probably be out in, what, 6 months time?
Microsoft will probably force Win 11 to be EOL in say 3 months time?
To avoid the "WTF?!" comments, that's sarcasm btw!
When Windows first emerged, the earliest of which I was aware being 3.0, it was a proof of concept novelty for desktop computing. That version offered possibilities but was very unreliable. Windows 3.1, in comparison was refreshingly stable, and serious add-on to MSDOS (and variants).
From release of 3.1 onwards, for a long while there was sense of excitement among desktop enthusiasts over announced imminent minor releases and considerable speculation about what might be contained in the next major release. The Internet was as yet on the horizon for most people, information was spread by a plethora of newsagent stand magazines: some general to home or office computing, whilst others targeted users of specific devices who might be regarded as hobbyists. Cover CDs began to appear to amuse with trifles or to offer demonstrations of proprietary software. Immense interest arose when the BBC introduced its Models A & B devices encapsulated within a keyboard ready for connection to a TV or monitor. Also, in those days there were several strands to chip design; for business hardware the Zilog Z80 was favoured, and for other uses the MOS Technology 6502.
By the time MS introduced Windows NT, the business desktop was divided among MS compliant hardware and macOS compliant, the latter using a main chip of differing architecture to that for which Windows was compiled.
The point of the foregoing being to suggest Windows 11 emerged onto a qualitatively differing market from that early Windows versions targeted. Nowadays, anticipation and excitement about an OS for routine use is muted. Pretty much every user of Windows based systems has pretty good idea of what they ought be capable. Very few make "cutting edge" demands.
Thus when a new Windows version (full or incremental update) arrives, most users are uninterested in supposed additional bells and whistles, and IT professionals anticipate at least a minor headache. If that is accurate representation, it suggests MS marketing of new Windows versions to existing users requires rethinking. Ease of transition matters more than extra "goodies" on offer.
Perhaps, MS is in a bit of a bind now. There are competing demands: maintain stable home, educational, and business markets and seek novelty in terms of selling points and opportunities for MS itself to extent its business model. The latter desire is evident through progression toward subscription services, increased opportunity of independent vendors ("trusted partners") to peddle products (as in MS Apps store), and (seeming) insinuation of targeted advertising into context of routinely used Windows software.
Anyway, that's Microsoft's problem: not mine. I shall continue residence on the relatively tranquil Linux Mint planet.
"By the time MS introduced Windows NT, the business desktop was divided among MS compliant hardware and macOS compliant, the latter using a main chip of differing architecture to that for which Windows was compiled."
WindowsNT didn't just run on x86, it also ran on Alpha AXP, MIPS and PowerPC (the latter which also became Apple's platform of choice). There were even Macs (Mac clones) which ran Mac OS and WindowsNT.
Just a shame that there were mostly zero native apps for the non-x86 platforms on Windows (on Alpha, you at least could work around that with DEC's FX!32 translator to run x86 programs).
Regardless of any considerations of merit (or otherwise) of particular versions of the 'doze', the statement "shifting stubborn consumers onto this software has proved challenging" really lets the polecat out of the bag. New versions are not for the benefit of the user base, they're just a way to keep the revenue stream churning. Nobody at the vendor's gives a tuppeny damn whether they even work or not, as long as the licences sell. Hence the concentration on "the new UX" at the expense of functionality or ergonomics.
I'll wager that most of these gains and losses are sampling fluctuations, not meaningful changes. Much the same as the hapless ventilating over miniscule changes in polls over political campaigns.
Do they really expect this sort of rollout babble to convince my mother to upgrade?
"On November 30, 2022, an out-of-band update was released to improve the Windows 10, version 2004, 20H2, 21H1, 21H2, and 22H2 out-of-box experience (OOBE). It provides eligible devices with the option to upgrade to Windows 11 as part of the OOBE process. This update will be available only when an OOBE update is installed."
Three letters TPM, in its support role this feature is the bane of my life if you are using Office 365 as it likes to store its keys there and dozens of times you can't use your apps because it stops working.
It's even worse with Windows 11, as it requires the OS to be compatible at the CPU level.
Aside from the interface (terrible mess that it is) and the removal of convent access to menus that worked very well in 10 no longer present in 11 we have all of the technical things that seem to break. However, the single most egregious thing to break is the networking. Even just one in a hundred is simply too big of a deal for an institution or business with hundreds or thousands of users. Let along the Bitlocker issues. Payroll having networking problems while running payroll would be a very bad thing. So far from the testing here, it seems that it is more likely that we will skip it and just call 11 dead and pray 12 will be better.
Deeply concerned about TPM on Windows 11.
By now everyone has probably discovered you destroy any shared drive data with curruptions when win 11 saved material is accessed by non tpm enabled Windows 10 or whatever OS. Microsoft should haved warned people that was an obvious downside of TPM however my bigger concern is that a hacker remoting-in can disable the TPM as I did: it's just a regular setting which may have the effect of disabling or even doing a reset of the hardware sync that allows everything in Windows 11 (and possibly win 10 on a shared platform) to function. I have deleted win 11 after I lost data but having activated tpm at the hardware level and then disabled it for a rebuild, it occurs to me that there might be an issue with a hacker scrambled tpm not only causing problems for your OS accessing data but what happens when you try and restore a backup that may incorporate an alternative TPM software value if your hardware gets its TPM chip reset by clicking on the Windows option to disable it. I have lost hours with data issues but losing the option to restore from backups is like going back to the stone age in terms of lost time rebuilding systems from scratch. I have not tested this concept but as tpm seems to rely on hardware and software being in sync to work well, if you lose that sync when a hacker clicks on the settings for it, you want to know if your backups will still fix any and all issues. If someone has a spare test rig please check it out and let us know. Many thanks.
"my bigger concern is that a hacker remoting-in can disable the TPM as I did: it's just a regular setting which may have the effect of disabling or even doing a reset of the hardware sync that allows everything in Windows 11 (and possibly win 10 on a shared platform) to function."
If they're trying to do a lot of damage, they have other ways to mess with the user than trying to turn off the TPM. It looks like you need local admin or BIOS access to turn that off, so at that point you could trash the registry, the boot sector, or just run pre-built ransomware. The latter has the advantage of a possible payment to the attacker even if their main intent was causing damage. Those methods would probably be more reliable at causing damage to an individual machine, and if they want widespread damage, it makes more sense for them to do nothing to the machine while using it as a beachhead for spreading to other targets on the network.
Windows 11 works awesome on my 1950x threadripper pc, albeit in an unsupported state. It is wierd that it runs fine, but i get way less issues with it than alot of people get running windows ten on a similar pc. My only regret is that i wouldn't be able to have it this way as an insider's install, as i appreciated windows 11 on it as an insider prior to windows 11's release. No problems with aaa games, revit or office on it.
I am not surprised that Windows 11 runs fine on that Threadripper. This generation of Threadripper does have a quite complex structure how those four chiplets are interconnected and how the memory is connected. if you use an unlucky combination you lose a lot of CPU power. Windows 11 can handle such situations better.
Windows 11 works fine on my old Ivy Bridge EP workstation, as well as on a number of other unsupported systems including a Dell tablet/convertible PC that originally came with Windows 8.1. And it runs better on all these systems than Windows 10 ever did.
Now, if only MS stopped pushing ads, annoying nag screens and bug-ridden updates to Windows 11, that would be great.
It's clear that Microsoft considers Windows 11 a skunkworks project where they keep throwing whatever crap they want into it. Advertising. Force feeding new "Features" like unremovable Teams integration.
Maybe when they start working on Windows 12, I'll give 11 a try cause it means they aren't screwing with it anymore.
Especially corporate avoid it like a plague since even the "pro" version is way too officious and uncontrolled, pushing way too much "hey connect to cloud", too much unasked programs installed after installing, too much distraction active by default, and requiring more mouse clicks than any Windows version before for the same things.
Especially since 22H2 seemed to introduce more bugs than solved them. My personal pet bug regarding shadowcopy landed in 22H2 worldwide. The upcoming 23H2 does not have this bug, and quite a few other non-UI bugs seemed to be fixed there as well, so I suspect in 2024 the numbers will rise. But not in 2023.
I have 2 desktops running Windows 11 but I have an Htpc that Microsoft have decided is too old so can't have Windows 11 and a Win 10 Pro (licensed I hasten to add) VM that also won't update...... If Microsoft want everyone to move to Windows 11 then make it doable
The out-of-the-box experience describes the Schreodinger's-cat's-eye-view of any system. This means that fifty percent of the time you've got a black screen, the cat being dead and therefore unable to see anything. The other half the time the experience is filled with the ineffable joy of survival, added to the excitement of being released from a dark and scary enclosed space containing a poison capsule and a radioactive source. Hence the cat is too high on endorphins to care how poor the actual user experience is.
A handful of upvotes, but no serious answers, so I had to go looking.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/assessments/out-of-box-experience
OOBE refers to a never-before-booted machine or image, so this smoother upgrade path from Win10 to Win11 is helpful for precisely zero users. Home user types will be either upgrading a non-OOBE Win10 machine or purchasing a new Win11 machine. Corporate types will be (one hopes) installing a properly tested Win11 image. Well done Microsoft for keeping your eyes on the prize.
Icon for why did El Reg bother with this article?
Out-Of-the-Box-Experience, in marketing terms, helps you to configure your computer to your needs when you first booted it.
In reality term is asks you ~10 times in different variants "may we track you?" with the default answer to "yes". It tries to push you to make or use a Microsoft-Cloud account, which can still be avoided using "x@x.x" as username and "x" as password so after it failed, and not before, will offer to use a normal local account. It is hated by 100% or the people I know. Nobody loves it. Everyone complains about "What is this, I never had this stupid stuff on Windows before, come on!" or "oh, not again, stop wasting my time!" depending on the install type, upgrade path etc.
Same happens when you first time start Edge: Stupid questions to help you for something you don't want to do, you just want to surf.
I wish they would make 23H2 "Admins Friend" edition to prevent wasting our time.
I wish they would make 23H2 "Admins Friend" edition to prevent wasting our time.
Small Business was only ever a niche between "home" and "enterprise", that MS exploited when somebody else owned those two.
Home users don't have an Admin employee, and Enterprise uses scripted rollouts. Microsoft isn't trying to be your friend anymore: you aren't an important customer block.
This is, sadly, true. Other MS-programs show that too, for example: Exchange 2007 has no internal database deduplication. The reason given: You cannot deduplicate if you have more than one database, with each several hundred gigabyte in size. Their example starts with four databases, where the calculation indeed shows that the gain of deduplication/SIS in exchange was way too low to be worthy to keep. At a time where the medium businesses all over needed less than one 100 GB mailbox database, and were happy to have more than the Exchange 2003 limit.
It tries to push you to make or use a Microsoft-Cloud account, which can still be avoided using "x@x.x" as username and "x" as password so after it failed, and not before, will offer to use a normal local account.
Can you still get it to let you use a local account by turning WiFi off on the computer while you set it up? Alternatively turning off your router or pulling the ethernet cable also worked with Win 10.
I still don't get why people think it is a good thing to be on a platform that is engineered to be redundant within the life of a machine and the "upgrade" requires new kit.... It's all a bit bizarre.
I switched to Ubuntu some time ago, no TPM issues, runs fine. Gets regular upgrades and hey, guess what - still runs on pretty much any machne.
"I still don't get why people think it is a good thing to be on a platform that is engineered to be redundant within the life of a machine and the "upgrade" requires new kit.... It's all a bit bizarre."
That's never been the case up until now - W11 is the first time they've done this in practice. Yeah, in theory previous versions had minimum specs but in practice they'd run on pretty much anything from the previous ten years.
Well, actually both Windows 7 and Windows 10 had minimum specs for processor/memory/graphics card support which raised the bar....
So don't think it is the first time as I know quite a few organisations that got stuck on a Windows version as they could not afford to upgrade their kit.
I can only speak from experience, but I only ever encountered one laptop which wouldn't run W10 (and it was pretty old) because the graphics chip wasn't supported. So while I'm sure there was the odd case, it was very much the exception. And if it installed, it was highly unlikely to give any compatibilty trouble later. Unlike with W11 where most machines older than about 3 years when it was released are not officially supported, and even if it installs it still may give trouble, now or with future updates.
Because for the average user when they buy their computers they come with one of 3 operating systems:
PCs, branded or generic - Windows (11 now)
Apple - iOS
ChromeBook - Google Chrome OS
Then on Tablets there is a choice of 2:
Android
iOS
iOS is driven by brand.
The ability to buy a PC with Linux pre-installed and functional applications from a retailer does not exist.
Just to be clear here, I am talking about the "average consumer user", not people on El Reg or with access to IT Professionals to help them.
For the foreseeable future Windows is going to continue to dominate. The change will most likely be driven as people consume more on phones and tablets. The chances of Microsoft making a functional tablet OS is non-existent. It appears to be a total blind-spot. To a certain extent, that also covers the more generic "functional OS"!
For there simple reason there is no "Linux" but tens of different distro and desktops and each and every user wants a different one... and desktop applications are "meh".
"The chances of Microsoft making a functional tablet OS"
I by far prefer my Surface being able to run any Windows software instead of neutered "apps".
It's not that users WON'T, it because MS have placed a planned barrier in in the way that makes users UNABLE to upgrade.
Corporates aren't just going to replace 100s, 1000s of 'just before the cut-off' PCS just to be able to upgrade to W11 right now. W10 is working just fine. Maybe we'll come back next year.
Yes, perhaps the security aspects of W11 are going to become more and more relevant. But, again, We'll come back later when the machine-base is more compatible by natural new-employee deployment.
And, it's not ACTUALLY MS that are wringing their hands. Guess what? It's the press! (Sorry Reg).
So, adjust the stats to look at the upgade rate on compatible machines. W11 was never designed to get installed on incompatible devices - and only users who are willing to live with the uncertainty of bypassing the 'rules' are doing that. So, statsmongers, don't try to use skewed data to report the takeup. MS are obviously happy to link the upgrades to hardware. The takeup on those is the ONLY way to correctly report the story.
“And, it's not ACTUALLY MS that are wringing their hands. Guess what? It's the press! (Sorry Reg).”
I imagine the hardware vendors, distributors, and retailers who were hoping to ship a ton of boxes on the back of an unquenchable hunger for that sweet, sweet, W11 experience are probably quite disappointed too…
I'd rather use linux but I use Windows 10 for my daily work as my company doesn't give me a choice. It works fine with a few niggles. I don't see what the use case is to upgrade to windows 11 at all. The only noticeable change appears to be that they moved the start menu to the middle of the screen, presumably so marketing had something to trumpet as new when in fact it just looks irritating.
I'll grudgingly upgrade my home PC as and when there is an advantage to doing so (e.g. better GPU drivers or something). Then again, proton is getting pretty close to running all the games I want it to so maybe I'll ditch windows altogether.
Windows 10 Pro Version 22H2 has an end of support date of Oct 8, 2024 I have no tangible need to upgrade for nearly 2 years. I'm looking forward to doing a hardware refresh of my PC just before then as my PC is getting very old. Even so it will run Windows 11, which is handy as it means my wife's PC will get a parts upgrade too. :)
Windows 11? Does everyone mean Windows 10 with even more adverts? With even more pushing towards Edge and Bing? To a more locked down and user-unfriendly interface with more clicks of the mouse per needed action?
Nah. I'll stick to Windows 10 until (if) MSFT comes to its senses. No gain in mileage to 11 IMO (your may be different, of course).
Installed and used it for over a year. I wanted to help test the next version. However, their adjustments to start, taskbar and context were a coat of paint. The snap to was annoying.
What broke me was MS wasting my testing to install emojis. Their focus is on games and consumers; the android emulation is useless too with few non-game apps. They make way too big a deal od light/dark mode too.
Reverted back to Win10 to get a better-optimized stable version without the annoyingly useless feature updates. Good riddance and waiting for Win12.
What I find really irritating about the "upgrade to W11" ad that seems to regularly appear in the W10 Windows Update available updates list is that it seems to prevent the installation of W10 updates until the user clicks on the stay with W10 option, at which point Windows immediately goes away and finds a few dozen W10 updates that need to be installed...
I re-evaluated a possible upgrade to Windows 11 due to Windows Update harassement, but I came to the conclusion, again, that Windows 11 is still Windows 10 --
The main bar can still only appear at the bottom of the screen, whereas one could choose any of the 4 borders for as long as I can remember.
The games still seem to run slower than on Windows 10.
For pro-audio, the jury is still out whether Windows 11 is quicker than Windows 10 or the opposite.
I couldn't care less about Android apps on Windows.
So Microsoft, give us real reasons to upgrade.
Begin by firing fully delusional Panos Panay, who already became insufferable as Surface Boss the last couple of years, out-bullshitting Apple on each and every product presentation, self masturbating with design and whatnot.
Win10 broke pro audio for me, and is the primary reason I've quit the platform.
ESI Juli@XT working perfect on Win 7, 8 running Reason and a stack of external synths with ASIO drivers. Same hardware and win 10? Latency went to hell, intermittent chop in audio and even in running vanilla consumer stuff was noticeably bad.
Adding insult to injury, adding an NVMe and a new GFX card apparently warrants a new license, the old one refusing to activate. Suffice to say that OS did not live long in the home, and isn't coming back.
To me the surprises are:
1. How static over time the overall market split reported by Statcounter between Windows, MacOS and Linux OS's has been.
2. How much Statcounter differs from LanSweeper and Statista on there assessment of W11 market penetration.
3. The growth in W11 has been at the expense of W10 installations, which would indicate people are running XP, 7 & 8 for a reason.
Given Apple's business model and the way they sell and obsolete MacBooks, I suspect they will have problems rapidly increasing their market share, because they are unable to leverage third-party production and sales networks or the installed base of Intel PC's. Their decision to EoL MacOS on Intel would seem to indicate they have no interest in challenging Microsoft's market dominance.
Obviously, Linux's market share is slowly growing (just under 2.5% according to Statcounter), so potential opportunity for something to light the blue touch paper, however, I suspect whatever that something is will come from-out-of-field...
You think it might have something to do with the fact that sooooo much in use hardware isn't officially supported? I am using 11 on one of my machines (only machine that will run it) and it is fine, in my experience.... but they have 20% of my home's PCs, 80% are Win 10. That dial isnt moving until I replace the other 4 pieces of hardware, and I measure that process in years - not months.
Not to be branded a coward....
Microsoft can do what it wishes. For now, rather than trying Linux, I have converted my old 4th generation Intel i5 HP computers and also my 10th gen i5 system into fully functioning fake Macs (aka Hackintosh). I use one of the 4th gens as a server, one in my garage for running my 3d printer and CNC and the more modern one as the main computer in our home. I also converted my Dell 7280 into a fully functional ProBook. Best part is, everything works, facetime, imessage and everything else. No going back now and I expect they'll be supported for a long time yet (i5 4th gen = catalina, other one = Monterey, laptop = Monterey).
(I must say though that the computers my kids use still run windows 10, but that is for school stuff and gaming).
Here at Linux Mansions we abandoned M$ in January 1999.
Since then retail RedHat (RH5.1 to RH9) and then Fedora/XFCE (FC5 though F37) have been supplying the needs of Linux Mansions residents.
....and a couple of (paid for) Windows-only licences run perfectly well using F37 and Wine.....
The fanbois can explain why I really and truly need any help from Microsoft or Windows!!!!
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