back to article Windows 10 – a 7-year-old OS – is still having problems with the desktop and taskbar

Microsoft has fixed yet another problem in some versions of Windows 10, a bug that makes the taskbar and desktop temporarily vanish or causes the system to ignore you. According to Redmond, users "might experience an error in which the desktop or taskbar might momentarily disappear, or your device might become unresponsive." …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Whatever...

    "Microsoft didn't outline the exact cause..."

    Because when my system locks up I always think... I don't need to know why... :-/

    Microsoft users are the best.

    1. Primus Secundus Tertius

      Re: Whatever...

      My system freezes about once a day for half a minute or so. But modern code is sloppy code, I guess.

      1. Martin-73 Silver badge

        Re: Whatever...

        Same, usually within 2 hrs of booting, utterly unresponsive then a plethora of window switching... even if i didn't click anything.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Whatever...

      "If the resolution doesn't work, users can try restarting the Windows device, according to Microsoft"

      Erm... don't you think people would have tried this at some point

      1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge

        Re: Whatever...

        did you turn it off and on AGAIN?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Whatever...

          As it happens, yes, I ended up rebooting the POS 3 or 4 times on Sat as it wouldn't get passed the log on/PIN screen!

          (running Win 10 22H2)

      2. MrDamage Silver badge

        Re: Whatever...

        Microsoft have redefined multitasking as "the ability to boot and crash at the same time".

  2. yetanotheraoc Silver badge

    Exceptional service

    WithFingersCrossed = True;

    try { System.Update(); }

    catch (SystemBorkedException) { KnownIssueRollback(); }

    finally { // Do it the right way. }

    1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

      Re: Exceptional service

      Not quite right

      WithFingersCrossed = True;

      Do

      {

      try { System.Update(); }

      catch (SystemBorkedException) { KnownIssueRollback(); }

      finally { // Do it the right way. }

      }

      Until bPissed_off==true

      Install Linux

      1. yetanotheraoc Silver badge

        Re: Exceptional service

        Well done on the one-upmanship.

      2. RyokuMas
        Meh

        Re: Exceptional service

        I've actually broken* more computers trying to install Linux than had computers broken by Windows update.

        There's always been some error come up that relies on exact hardware/driver/some other spec knowledge that I don't have and that I can't find a working solution for online. And, to be brutally honest, I've been put off by the patronising and/or elitist responses I've had previously from a considerable number of the Linux community (watch that downvote counter spin!).

        * "broken" = "rendered unusable until Windows was reinstalled from scratch (where possible)"

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I've actually broken* more computers trying to install Linux

          I guess that depends on what Linux distros you used (I have seen a fair share of strange errors on Ubuntu, but then it's also known as the "Windows amongst all Linux" for a reason).

          The same goes for the community (which, I agree, some, like Debian's, are really toxic).

          I tend to stick with enterprise level Linux, i.e., RHEL and SEL, and its free (as in beer) brethren RockyLinux/AlmaLinux and openSUSE Leap. Especially (open)SUSE runs very well on all kind of systems, and thanks to YaST it's probably the easiest distro to manage.

        2. heyrick Silver badge

          Re: Exceptional service

          I found Linux to be... less than useful on my few machines, but I did have the foresight to take out the Windows drive and put in another for installing Linux. So reverting was simply switching drives.

          1. ThatOne Silver badge

            Re: Exceptional service

            > I found Linux to be... less than useful on my few machines

            A case of "YMMV" I guess, as I found Linux to be excellent as my daily workhorse. I have to keep Windows around because some software only runs on Windows (not well enough on Wine), but since Win7 was EOLed I've been spending my work days on Linux. And yet I was a Microsoft products user since DOS 2, having bought the whole product lineup (save Vista and 8...).

            Why switch to Linux? Nicer and way more ergonomic UI, doesn't assume stuff, doesn't spam me with nonsense, doesn't interfere with me working (latest fad on my Windows 11 is throwing an internet security alert each time I try to drag & drop a file between folders on my own local disk!...) , and generally behaving. No, I never had major driver issues on Linux, neither with very old hardware, nor with cutting edge new one. At least nothing a simple question in the support forum didn't help me solve in under a day's time. *shrug*

            (Didn't downvote you though.)

            1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

              Re: Exceptional service

              > latest fad on my Windows 11 is throwing an internet security alert each time I try to drag & drop a file between folders on my own local disk!

              What are you doing to your Windows to make it behave this bad? You must have over-optimized your Windows.

              My last fresh installation was in 2011 Windows 7 x64 on i7-2500k (oc @ 4.8 GHz), in foresight pure-UEFI install. Since then Windows 8.0 and 8.1 (with deduplication), all Windows 10 builds from 1511 on and now Windows 11. I never had what you describe, and it is still the same installation from 2011, even with several big hardware changes.

              The only thing my Windows installation needed was a deep-clean of old drivers and on time Battleye, using process-hacker services view and recognize everything not needed any more, and delete them from system32.

              1. ThatOne Silver badge

                Re: Exceptional service

                > What are you doing to your Windows to make it behave this bad?

                Not using it?

                I mainly use it to keep the hardware updated (firmware flashing, for about everything from BIOS to HD firmwares), and to play a couple old games I have.

                As for not having what I describe, I did spend lose an afternoon searching Internet about this strange issue, and thus learned it's a known problem Microsoft can't be bothered to fix since, apparently, Windows 7... The fact you didn't experience it is as irrelevant as the fact I hadn't experienced it so far either: Shit happens, eventually.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Exceptional service

          I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas.

        4. Antron Argaiv Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: Exceptional service

          Tip -- invest in a spare HDD.

          (1) - pull the Windows HDD

          (2) - install spare HDD

          (3) - install Linux on spare HDD

          (4) - evaluate Linux

          (5) - if necessary, remove Linux HDD and re-install Windows HDD

          (6) - if Linux is acceptable, reinstall Windows HDD as secondary and transfer files.

          1. Martin-73 Silver badge
            Pint

            Re: Exceptional service

            Beer for that seemingly obvious, but often overlooked advice. These days, storage is cheap

          2. Geoffrey W

            Re: Exceptional service

            RE: "(1) - pull the Windows HDD"

            If you're able. I have machines that the pain of trying to open and remove HDD > pain of wiping and installing. Sometimes just buying a new one is preferable. I hate modern "Skinny!" laptops.

          3. ThatOne Silver badge

            Re: Exceptional service

            > (1) - pull the Windows HDD

            > (2) - install spare HDD

            > (3) - install Linux on spare HDD

            Or, unless your computer is really slow, just boot the Live DVD and go directly to step "(4) Evaluate". No need to install anything. Perfect to see if Linux is detecting all your hardware, if you like the UI, and generally to take a good look at how things work.

        5. William Towle
          Unhappy

          Re: Exceptional service

          > I've actually broken* more computers trying to install Linux than had computers broken by Windows update.

          > * "broken" = "rendered unusable until Windows was reinstalled from scratch (where possible)"

          I've heard of Linux supposedly breaking PCs that did not misbehave once Windows was reinstalled.

          This was discovered by an IT department, who eventually persuaded the machines' provider that Linux was not at fault and its drivers had been correctly identifying an intermittent fault that Windows was, at best, quietly burying in hard-to-find logs.

          I suspect something similar of drivers for the last two laptops I've owned (although the actual fault is not similar)

          1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

            Re: Exceptional service

            > This was discovered by an IT department, who eventually persuaded the machines' provider that Linux was not at fault and its drivers had been correctly identifying an intermittent fault that Windows was, at best, quietly burying in hard-to-find logs

            I think: The actual reason, for example, is that a defective memory bit is always 0. On Windows you may be lucky it is supposed to be 0. Use any other OS which sets that bit to 1 and it breaks. Such lucky things are everywhere in the computer world, with every chip you have in there. Other things include timings, funny voltage variations depending on the code and so on.

            There are no errors-buried-in-hard-to-find logs since the fault simply did not surface.

            This can happen the other way around with Linux, not showing the problem where Windows exposes the hardware issue.

            1. OhForF' Silver badge

              Re: Exceptional service

              In a lot of cases the hardware is not behaving as it should and fails to work with the standard OS drivers. The manufacturer "fixes" this by supplying a special windows driver for the device so it will work fine with Windows. As the market share for Linux in desktop PC's is low most often the manufacturers do not bother to supply a Linux driver containing the work around for the borked stuff.

              Users then see the same hardware works with Windows but not in Linux so it must be a fault in Linux

        6. teknopaul

          Re: Exceptional service

          You are probably trying to reinstall windows on a computer where windows came preinstalled and trying to install Linux on a pc where Windows came preinstalled.

          For a fair comparison try installing windows on a computer where Linux came pre installed é.G an owrt router or android phone.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Exceptional service

      Depends - which leg are you standing on?

    3. Wade Burchette

      Re: Exceptional service

      If it is like my Windows, it goes like this:

      if (group_policy.disable_driver_install == true) install_driver();

      else install_driver();

      if (update_available == true) {

      if (group_policy.delay_quality_update == true) {

      /* Put future code here */

      install_update();

      }

      else install_update();

      }

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That's because it's shit

    And Microsoft don't know how to fix it. Nearly 40 years of security failure.

    1. simonlb Silver badge

      Re: That's because it's shit

      I've been saying for the past 20 years that the whole design of Windows has got to be fundamentally wrong when you have to have so many updates to the OS so frequently, where multiple updates to fix one thing break a load of other, unrelated bits, and there are numerous issues which are just accepted as normal because they have been present for so long and never fixed.

      MS could have designed it far better but chose not to.

      1. SundogUK Silver badge

        Re: That's because it's shit

        It's all about backwards compatibility for business users. They need/want to keep using the control software that was written for NT4 on their Windows 10 machines and MS obliges. With Linux, things just get broken and the community is expected to find a fix/work-around.

        1. RyokuMas
          Thumb Up

          Re: That's because it's shit

          True. Think about when Microsoft announced that apps for WinPhone7 wouldn't work on WP8... disregarding those who refused to touch WinPhone "because it's Microsoft", how many developers were put off by that?

          We still see devices running XP for god's sake!

          That said, a lot of the issues are down to Microsoft's own lack of vision - failing to account for the rise of the internet and global device connectivity probably being the gretest.

          1. Peter2 Silver badge

            Re: That's because it's shit

            We still see devices running XP for god's sake!

            Most XP boxes I have seen is because they are running as a controller for a really expensive bit of equipment (MRI, CNC cutter etc) that works just fine with the WinXP based PC, but they are told "you'll have to buy a new machine to get new software". I replaced a Win2k based voicemail system a couple of years ago.

            1. ThatOne Silver badge
              Thumb Up

              Re: That's because it's shit

              Definitely. It's a case of "if it's not broken, don't fix it".

              Especially since in this case it's only about selling you perfectly working kit all over again. If your controller isn't connected to Internet and isn't used to browse suspicious sites, there is really no sane reason to replace the fine-honed Win2000 or WinXP it is running, just so you can have Cortana spamming you about interesting opportunities and to be subjected to arbitrary reboots...

              Unfortunately Windows >7 isn't a professional operating system anymore, it has become an ad-supported "free-to-play" commercial vehicle.

      2. Smirnov

        Re: That's because it's shit

        Windows' underlaying design is actually pretty good, which isn't surprising when considering that many parts were influenced by the design of other great operating systems like VMS.

        The main reason why we see all these Windows issues is simply that Microsoft always had a habit of prioritizing features over function/stability, and the addition of "agile" into the mix has only made this worse.

        And it's not just Windows, we see the same kinds of issues with other Microsoft products like office, (the now dead) Exchange server, Sharepoint and even with Microsoft's cloud service Azure. All suck because of what Microsoft does to them.

        1. yetanotheraoc Silver badge

          Re: That's because it's shit

          Windows is good. I've been using it every working day since Windows 3.1 days and get along fine with it. What you get out of the box is amazing. MS Office is fabulous, so good the clones are still chasing it even though it's the opposite of the Unix paradigm do one thing and do it well. Windows Update is bad. "Known Issue Rollback", have they no shame? Windows Update is why I use Linux at home.

      3. nijam Silver badge

        Re: That's because it's shit

        > MS could have designed it far better but chose not to.

        Hmmmm. I think you mean "they could have implemented it better". Or at least, "somebody could have implemented it better, but perhaps not MS". Either way, I doubt "choice" was anything to do with it.

    2. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: That's because it's shit

      Exactly.

      It's not that complicated. MS is shit.

      But it boggles my mind that everyone and their dog bought into it. Of course, MS persuading every PC maker to have MS pre-installed, lo, those eons ago, might have something to do with that.

      Just a little. /s

  4. that one in the corner Silver badge

    The software giant is using its Known Issue Rollback (KIR) feature...

    I'd assumed that the two paragraphs about KIR and use of Group Policies would just be copy and pasted verbatim into these articles, but no, they are slightly different each time.

    Thank heavens for that bit of editing, or we'd never be able to tell these MS stories apart.

    1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

      Re: The software giant is using its Known Issue Rollback (KIR) feature...

      Yeah, that part is really weird. Whoever wrote the article was really not in the mood for work. Maybe a MS-QA employee?

      1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: The software giant is using its Known Issue Rollback (KIR) feature...

        no, but in Word, as soon as you type "Known Issue Rollback" the document reverts to an earlier version when you save it...

    2. simonlb Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: The software giant is using its Known Issue Rollback (KIR) feature...

      They should have one called KIF - Kill It with Fire.

  5. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

    Kerberos problem confirmed

    Quite a number of domain controllers in our companies hand showed the little kerberos problem. Not funny.

    We should get a statistic of fixed bugs vs. new bugs...

  6. gregzeng

    Windows Eleven also

    Seems this problem is with my Windows Eleven machines, Home and Pro, on standard modern laptops.

    Re-installing, then hours of customized configuration, seems too be there only cure.

    Tried Ubuntu Linux and others in the Linux types. Linux however does not understand most users of computers, excepting those who need expensive support staff>

    Apple operating systems are designed for the ambulance of support staff. Microsoft Windows is between these two extremes, so it's the most used, because it had the most user applications.

    No computer operating system is everything, to everyone, everytime. However, Microsoft Windows, like the "God" designed human anatomy, is an okay compromise between the best and the bad.

    1. heyrick Silver badge

      Re: Windows Eleven also

      God designed? We ended up that way after millions of years and millions of variations since the Tiktaalik. For some reason we ended up as sentient. Could have been cats, but no, it was us.

      But, yeah, we're basically "good enough". Not particularly reliable beyond a certain number of years, but there never was any warranty. Or handbook. Or support centre.

    2. nijam Silver badge

      Re: Windows Eleven also

      > ... an okay compromise between the best and the bad

      A compromise between "sort of OK" and "not really OK". But it can definitely be compromised.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh

    Were you using that OS?

    Sorry.

  8. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge
    Headmaster

    Momentarily disappear

    Glad there exists at least one Seppo who knows what momentarily really means.

    I imagine thousands of people reading the advisory with bated breath, expecting their taskbar to disappear. Any moment now... Any second...

    Bastards! You said it would be happening momentarily! I'm still waiting!

    1. Geoffrey W

      Re: Momentarily disappear

      One would think that, being such a pedantic and finicky arse, you could have found a less stupid and more real word to use than "Seppo". I looked it up and am still uncertain. A US American? Confirmation momentarily?

      1. heyrick Silver badge

        Re: Momentarily disappear

        It would seem: From septic tank (“rhyming slang for Yank”) +‎ -o (“colloquialising suffix”).

        I'm a Brit with an American mother, and this is the first time I've come across the word; and yeah, had to look it up as well. Maybe it's more an Australian thing? <shrug>

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maybe it's time for M$ to shitcan half its workforce as per the current trend?

    Surely their products couldn't get any worse?

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: Maybe it's time for M$ to shitcan half its workforce as per the current trend?

      Shhh.

      You don't want to tempt the beast into saying "hold my beer".

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Maybe it's time for M$ to shitcan half its workforce as per the current trend?

        The Best needs no tempting. Or prompting. Watch t

    2. chivo243 Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: Maybe it's time for M$ to shitcan half its workforce as per the current trend?

      Don't poke the bear... and never, never tease a weasel!

      Surely their products couldn't get any worse?

      You must be new here, very new.

      Win2000 = solid

      Win2000 advanced = solid

      WinXP = Solid after SP2

      Win7 = Solid after SP1

      Downhill from there... so please don't double dog dare M$ to produce a steamier turd...

      1. Piro Silver badge

        Re: Maybe it's time for M$ to shitcan half its workforce as per the current trend?

        It really has been. They haven't produced a single OS or line up of applications that have a common appearance since Windows 7.

        Everything is just random UI designs, multiple control panels, whatever they threw together at that minute. Let's not even start with 11.

        I had hoped they could turn things around, but no. I will say that 10 is an improvement over 8.1, which was an improvement over 8, but they're all smelly things you tried to avoid treading in compared to 7.

    3. dajames

      Re: Maybe it's time for M$ to shitcan half its workforce as per the current trend?

      Surely their products couldn't get any worse?

      Doesn't that depend on which half of the workforce they keep?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Maybe it's time for M$ to shitcan half its workforce as per the current trend?

        middle half?

    4. 43300 Silver badge

      Re: Maybe it's time for M$ to shitcan half its workforce as per the current trend?

      If there were fewer staff, there might be less opportunity for "innovations" which nobody asked for and which are annoying and/or break other things.

      Then again, the Pointless Innovations department is likely to be protected as MS clearly regards it as highly important...

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Maybe it's time for M$ to shitcan half its workforce as per the current trend?

      But the working staff just do what management tell them.

  10. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "The latest fix comes after a number of other problems were resolved this week"

    Ah, Borkzilla.

    Seven years into The Last Windows Ever and not only is it not the last, but you have four different versions of it running on customer PCs and they all have endless bugs to correct.

    One might wonder if the Development department is not introducing new bugs just for job security.

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: "The latest fix comes after a number of other problems were resolved this week"

      Except that we're not really 7 years in, really. With the current arrangement you are never more than 6 or 7 months into a release of Windows before they reset the clock with a Feature Release. Unless you pay for an LTS version, Windows is now always in beta.

      Is the LTS version affected by all these bugs?

      1. yoganmahew

        Re: "The latest fix comes after a number of other problems were resolved this week"

        Not only "yes, yes it is affected by most of those bugs", but long is not very long, and the longer you stay on LTS, the worse the experience using other products becomes. It seems all the other MS products are only tested well on the latest release, so bugfixes to other products break because of your LTS in unexpected ways. Locking everyone who rises early out of AD is my favourite.

        1. 43300 Silver badge

          Re: "The latest fix comes after a number of other problems were resolved this week"

          Similar issues with running things on Windows Server - some software appears to check build numbers, and if it doesn't match one of the recent releases of W10 it misbehaves (Adobe being a prime example).

        2. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: "The latest fix comes after a number of other problems were resolved this week"

          Most of the MS products are not supported on the LTSC versions.

          e.g.:

          Microsoft 365 and ANY product that has updates on a frequent basis, like MS Edge (Chromium), OneDrive, Teams, ...

  11. cosymart
    Facepalm

    Try this :-)

    "If the resolution doesn't work, users can try restarting the Windows device, according to Microsoft." Nothing beats the old tried and tested switch it off and on again :-(

    1. nijam Silver badge

      Re: Try this :-)

      For years now, I've been suggesting "Have you tried switching it off and not switching it back on?"

  12. Nerdy-Nerd

    Windows becomes unresponsive

    I have been noticing this behaviour since I first used Windows. I also noticed that Microsoft was quite unresponsive to the issue. Their reaction time somehow matches that of their OS.

  13. Piro Silver badge

    Yup, still crap.

    Come back, Windows 7...

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Some things never change ...

    "Funny, I missed Knuth's chapters on drugs, alcohol and spinlocks."

    Paraphrased; overheard and confirmed at Microsoft campus, ca 1987.

  15. glennsills

    Is time to move on to Windows 11?

    Although to be fair, I never had these particular problems on Windows 10. It is important to keep in mind that when software is installed on 1.3 billion devices, devices of all sorts, managed in all sorts of ways and with all sorts of software installed on it, bugs will surface. This happens on Linux from time to time too, on a much smaller installed base. Don't get me started about my wife's iPad.

  16. nijam Silver badge

    > a bug that ... causes the system to ignore you.

    It's a feature.

  17. DLSmith

    And my Windows 7 machine

    Just keeps humming along. No "updates" to screw it up.

    Well, it does still get anti-virus updates.

  18. Tomo1967

    Too large codebase and nothing we can do with it

    Permanent updates ....

    Yep, just like in Linux. I don't count how many times my Ubuntu desktop locks or crashes every day.

    1. Alumoi Silver badge

      Re: Too large codebase and nothing we can do with it

      Ubuntu, the MS of Linux world.

    2. ske1fr

      Re: Too large codebase and nothing we can do with it

      The only time my Ubuntu desktops crash is straight after installation when they're running that sub-optimal Nouveau graphics driver. Once they're quickly set up with an Nvidia driver they calm down. YMMV. Not applicable with Intel or Radeon. And even the dreaded JACK is tameable with patience. I think of frequent updates as a sign of responsiveness to found faults. A permanent update would be installing a new version. I prefer fixing any issues with Linux to wrestling with Windows 10 on my wife's laptop, after years with 3.1 onwards 10 is just a shambling chimera out of Lovecraft.

  19. HammerOn1024

    Or your device

    "... , or your device might become unresponsive."

    Wait. I thought this was SOP for Windows.

  20. Captain_Cretin

    Even the adverts

    M$ coding standards are now so low, even some of the adverts in their Solitaire package lock up, and force you to restart the app.

    (Idiot woman with sheep).

    And they wonder why people don't want to pay for their cr@p.

  21. bernmeister

    Re-boot.

    A long wordy explanation boils down to "Have you tried switching it off and back on again, sir?"

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