Data loss prevention emergency tactic: keep your finger on the power button for the foreseeable future Welcome, gentle readers, to another instalment of Who, Me? in which citizens of the Reg universe (Regizens?) recount their tales of technological near-misses. This week, cast your mind back to the halcyon days of the late 1990s, when computers were made of metal and the power button was an actual physical button. That's …
the NHS (the UK's government health insurer)
I think you will find that is very far from the case. The NHS is funded out of general taxation. Whether or not that is the best way to do it in the current climate, that is certainly the way it is currently done.
M.
Agreed.
Terribly worded phrase. It's the National Health Service. The way it's written makes it sound like it is there to cater for government staff only.
I'm starting to think I need to find other places to find my IT news'n'stuff that still stick to their roots.
You'll find that The Inquirer was turned off many years ago. Something about being bought out by a publisher who wanted to make changes to increase revenue, which of course did exactly the opposite.
Now where else have I heard that recently?
The Inquirer was turned off many years ago. Many years ago? Wow, I seem to remember looking it more recently than that... but indeed, it's not anywhere to be found. The only other place I can think of was slashdot... I wonder if my login still exists?
Well, Gents, we can say we witnessed the beginning of the internet, and the beginning of the decline of the internet. Perhaps El Reg is an analog of that process? Shooting star to falling star?
If it's any consolation, we can find Dabbsy here: https://autosaveisforwimps.substack.com/
I don't think Paris followed him.
Grabbing my coat just in case...
"I don't think Paris followed him."
I was going to suggest the Mme Dabbsie would have strong words to say about that if she had followed him. Then I realised two things. 1) We've never actually seen Mme Dabbsie. 2) Dabbsie and Paris disappeared at about the same time. Ergo, Mme Dabbsie is Paris :-)
The main selling point for El Reg is that they've declined less than everyone else.
True but the downward path was set when the vulture was diminished and the motto "biting the hand that feed IT" is long gone.. I go to the front page now and it's a jumbled mess with promotions masking as articles, etc. Speaking of changes, the forums have seemed to have disappeared. <sigh>
The good news is that the early indications that the tumour was back have proven to be a false alarm.
The bad news is that we;ve instead ended up with acute appendicitis, and they're refusing to take us to general surgery to get it sorted.
Its really 'the West' migrating back to England. Successive governments have turned the NHS into what looks a lot like what we call a "Preferred Provider Organization" in the US. These are networks of provider groups -- hospitals, doctors and specialists -- that coordinate care between themselves, contracting with one or more insurers to get paid. Its a subtle shift that you might not notice at first but its actually a good step towards privatizing the health system where the government is a 'provider of last resort', primarily to deal with the poor and elderly, but anyone who can (and wants prompt care) has private insurance. Obviously there's a lot of resistance to this in the system, the traditional NHS operates like what we call an HMO (a Health Maintenance Organization) , a vertically integrated full service operation that manages all your care. HMOs are typically not for profit and are extremely efficient; they're not available everywhere and there's an ingrained resistance to the notion of 'lack of choice' that's part of the American mindset (which is a bit ironic since insurers increasingly mandate what are called 'narrow networks' for their PPOs).
Its an interesting topic but still a bit off topic. Just remember that when Jeremy Hunt was busy making the NHS more efficient a few years back he was being advised by UHC, one of the US's biggest insurers, who coincidentally referred to the UK as a 'grown opportunity' to their shareholders. But the NHS is sacred , isn't it? Sure it can't happen here?
"the traditional NHS operates like what we call an HMO (a Health Maintenance Organization)"
"HMOs are typically not for profit and are extremely efficient;" - this will be where the NHS is most definitely not a typical HMO.
Parts can be (my local health centre includes GP services and blood testing, and links directly to the - private, not state run - pharmacy, and does indeed seem to be pretty efficient), but I know two people with chronic conditions where the level of inefficiency and incompetence in how they are being treated (as people, not medically) justifies every insult ever directed at the NHS.
The NHS isn't a typical HMO, it's the Curate's egg - good in parts.
Heard a story of a film scanner in a TV broadcaster. Converts 35mm film (what's that) into TV pictures.
Lots of whirring machinery for finger, hair & clothing entrapment.
So the device has a microswitch on a bracket detecting whether the door was open, and powering off if so.
Bracket is made of bent mild steel, and has progresively bent backwards as people have shut the door, possibly a bit too enthusiastically.
When it came to starting the film for broadcast , it would not roll. Quick thinking operator kicks his foot against bottom off door, and microswitch decides it is safe to roll.
Operator has to hold his foot against the door for the whole of the reel, otherwise his error will be "seen" by millions (big name film, national holiday time, pre cable/FreeView).
Not as dramatic but in BBC TV Centre many years ago there were network changeover buttons in one of the main control rooms ('CAR' if you really want to know) which allowed BBC 1 or 2 to be switched to lessor control rooms to provide Open University* transmission. Anyway, come one evening at closedown**, a keen and lucky engineer pressed the changeover button and it failed to latch, falling back to the normal BBC2 (or 1) control room when he released his finger. Being a diligent chap he pressed it again and held it down keeping OU programmes on air for the next 2 hours before he could finally release his finger and go home, rather late. ISTR the buttons were large enough that you could swap fingers when one of them started to ache too much.
When he retired from TV he was given the offending button mounted on stand as a leaving present.
*Go look it up, I can't be arsed.
**For our younger audience, in the olden days, BBC TV used to finish in the evening and there was no transmission overnight, the output signals from the TV Centre would be pulled and the TV transmitters would shut down.
I think we've probably all done the "half click" move, and most of us have probably done the <clack> <click> move to see if the capacitors are good enough as well. I would dispute
the late 1990s, when computers were made of metalhowever; many "proper" computers of the day (that is, even if you ignore the likes of the ST and Amiga) had plastic or glass-fibre cases. Personally I had a RiscPC (after an Archimedes which actually was (mostly) metal), and many of the Macs of that era were also plastic. Didn't seem to make them much lighter!
A similar thing which happened to me was at a funeral of a young child at our church. As you can imagine, the place was packed out with friends, relatives, teachers and the like and muggins here on PA... with a desk which had an external power brick, connected via a stupid multi-pin connector (it was a Soundcraft) which was beginning to have problems. I spent the whole hour with my hand around the back of that desk, because every time I let go of the connector the power would disappear.
Worked fine up until the end of the service, but I'd been asked to help carry the coffin, so the last few minutes were silent. Seemed appropriate somehow.
M.
I built a pc with new case recently and it was metal, in fact I have never seen a pc without a metal case , including the dinkiest of laptops.
There plastic involved sure .... i must have missed the point.
The story seemed to be more about "hard" on off buttons
"I built a pc with new case recently and it was metal, in fact I have never seen a pc without a metal case ,"
There were many PC brands using plastic cases with some form of inner metal shielding such a vapour deposition of copper or a stuck on tinfoil like coating. Amstrad[*] in particular were always plastic cases. Actually more expensive for small runs, the moulds cost big money, but much cheaper if you are going mass market and IIRC, Amstrad started out as a plastics moulding company before they got into electronics and computers.
Plenty other brands used plastic cases too, but often that was just the outer panelling, the inner chassis skeleton being metal.
[*] and yes, I mean PCs, not their earlier 8 bit stuff. PC1512 up to at least their x386 based kit.
The last computer I owned of any sort (games consoles aside) that had a plastic case was an Amstrad CPC 464*. Every single desktop PC I have ever owned, including the current one, which was built into a brand-new full-height case about 18 months ago (water cooling heat-sinks and fans take up quite a lot of space), has had a metal case.
Laptops might be considered somewhat differently, as they often have a plastic shell, but this is almost always screwed onto a metal chassis that holds the internal components in place.They don't even really have a case, to speak of.
*The closest modern piece of kit to this that I own is a Raspberry Pi 400, which, admittedly, is in a plastic case. It's also smaller than an average keyboard, and it would be a silly thing to make from metal...
"Laptops might be considered somewhat differently, as they often have a plastic shell, but this is almost always screwed onto a metal chassis that holds the internal components in place.They don't even really have a case, to speak of."
Plastic laptops are not that uncommon, especially consumer and low to middle range enterprise. The "palm rest" bit of the case is, in effect, the chassis. The only substantial metal in them are brackets shaped to fit over the PCD mounted sockets, USB ports etc and the screen hinges. Some, but not all, may have metal stiffeners up either side of the LCD panel.
"I know how much they weighed, because - being GP surgeries - I stood on the patient scales holding one."
Ok, what's up with the unit hate on the 'muricans when brits measure a person's weight in Stone? Can't go all of the way and use Kg's? Pounds are bad enough because more "Pounds" in the UK is a good thing and not a good thing in the US. I'm confused enough as it is. At least I can eyeball a "wee dram" of scotch, it's just shy of the rim of the glass. Half that if it's very peety.
I'm old enough that I grew up with stones for a while, and I still need to mentally convert people's heights, but honestly, I barely know stones equate to anymore (it's a bit over 6kg, fwiw). At least with pounds, you can divide by 2 and knock off 20%-ish for a rough idea.
The thing that really gets up my nose with Brits and their "revolutionary times measurements" snarks at the Americans is their insistence on imperial measurements for road distances!! It drove me nuts (literally) when I lived there, and all their feeble BS about it "costs too much" to change road signs etc is just that, BS. All their former colonies managed it in the 60s/70s. India, being a large country both in area and population, made the full metric transition in 5 years.
I'm sure the only reason car manufacturers aren't jumping up and down about having to provide speedos and odometers etc in miles is because of the American market enabling it. So really, the Brits should be grateful to them.
Ok, what's up with the unit hate on the 'muricans when brits measure a person's weight in Stone? Can't go all of the way and use Kg's?
I'm from the USA and I don't hate the use of stone in a persons' weight figures. But, I'm not familiar with what a British "stone" weighs. Is it where you go to the local quarry, find a stone you like and declare this is what I will use as a measure? Is it an equal weight as the "Stone Of Destiny"?
Could it be that someone on a walking adventure in the hill country was crushed by a large stone falling off the face of the escarpment, the fellow with him incuriously asked "How much does that stone weighs to have made Percival (don't know if that's his real name.) as flat, and as thick, as a leaf." One of the other hikers declares "Egad, we should use that as a weight measurement, but what shall we call it?" Another chirps "We shall call it a Percival (Again not sure about the name.) as that it was he who left behind his mortal shell to give us this unit of measure." The well lubricated member of the group makes an observation. "I would wager that if we remove the stone to recover Percival (Still not sure on the name, but I digress), we would find that being the stone landed on the top of his skull and compree-compris-oh bloody hell, squished him straight down, we could most likely pull him up straight, punch a few holes in his chest, and play him like a concertina."
"We shall deal with your inexcusable frivolity later. Percival (Damn, I've got to figure who that guy was, really.) is dead. DEAD, dead, no longer living, gone to the great beyond, reaping his heavenly reward, partying with the angels" COULD SOMEBODY GET THIS BLOODY ROCK OFF ME? "Percival (does anybody know what his name is?), you are alive?" "Yes, I am alive, but I don't feel well."
While removing the rock, the well lubricated member said, "Well, I guess we shall just call our new unit of measure Stone!"
Don't know if that's how it went, but, if someone could tell me two things.
How many Imperial gallons would equal the weight of a Stone.
Was Percival his real name?
I would dispute
the late 1990s, when computers were made of metal
however; many "proper" computers of the day (that is, even if you ignore the likes of the ST and Amiga) had plastic or glass-fibre cases.
There's a reason the big boxes in the data centers were called "big iron" back then.
Only reading this, the pain kept creeping back into my index finger - a numb finger from feeling a button that seems to be pushing back with increasing strength, And slowly losing the sense of how much of a push is really needed to keep the button pressed....
Yes, been there, pushed that, and simultaneously heard «DON'T!!!» It wasn't the NHS though, only some local server for the CAD. What I cannot remember though is whether is was a colleague or my own brain who shouted the «don't».
Had the same problem at a major investment bank in 1993. First contract job at 21 years old, IT break/fix for dealer positions and supporting infrastructure. In one of the many distributed IT rooms throughout the building with networking and server kit, I had been sent to powercycle a Novell server. There were two with pretty much identical names next to each other. I read the label too quickly and had already pressed the button in when I realised it was the wrong one. Cue me, scrabbling to hold the button in and reach the phone with my foot to call someone to get the server shutdown before my finger gave out. We managed it and the server was shutdown remotely so I could release the button. Brought it back up, luckily no impact. Then on to fix the one I'd originally been sent to work on.
Regarding the rapid toggling of the power switch...
For a while I ran an HP Proliant DL385 2U server as a desktop machine in my office, fed from raw mains. No UPS or anything like that. Our house gets occasional power cuts, usually only for a second or so at a time. I noticed that the server was always absolutely the last machine to turn off due to a power cut. A blip in power that would reset every other device in the house, from the microwave to other desktops, that machine would just ride out. I can well believe that an older server with a hard-power button would run right over a quick toggle.
Older kit would have been over-specced to ensure it ran OK. With experience and cost saving measures, the capacitors were trimmed down to the bare minimum to make them work, so I doubt a similar "click-clack" recovery would work on a modern system. I know I've done the double click to save powering off at the wrong time (only on my desktop, not a server) so know it was possible.
It couldn't work on a modern system anyway. Hit the power button accidentally and you are toast. Single press, it goes into the shutdown sequence. Panicking and holding the button down is worse. Much worse. Hard shutdown! There is no second chance, no matter how quick your reactions.
Thank you for consulting $deity network. Your prayers are very important to us.
We have evaluated your typo and come to the conclusion that $diety may be appropriate. You are advised to limit your intake accordingly. Thank you again for consulting $deity network.
I had a customer who ran an early version Microsoft’s Small Business Server on a 486 desktop PC (I know. The boss preferred to spend the business’s money on his leased top of the range V8 Ute instead of the Server which was responsible for all of their income). It had a "Turbo" button to increase/reduce the clock speed. I sat down next to it to promote a user to a higher SQL Server group in our software, and noticed that the Turbo light showed the slow speed. I reached down to change it, and in the next ohno-second, managed not to release it when I realized that I had pressed the nearly identical Power button next to it. Fortunately all of the 12 or so users were within shouting range, so I asked them to save their work and log off. I managed to use the keyboard with the other hand to shut the Server down.
After restarting everything, and apologising, I went to my favourite coffee shop down the street and had 2 large flat whites and 2 chocolate Bouchees before I felt strong enough to go back and carry on.
> A hinged/sellotaped piece of paper...
Did the same when I hit the wrong machine in our broom cuboard server room. Desk with 2 compaq tower servers, one was the Novell server. can't remember what the other one was but of course I hit the wrong power button when the latter hung up.
Finance director was very upset that his staff had lost work, wanted everything rejigging to run on their local PC drives until I pointed out that backups would then be his responsibility, and how about we fix this for everyone and not just him?
The National Health Service is the state health care provider for UK citizens, it ids funded from general taxation but is under huge pressures, the far right have suggested that the only way to rescue the NHS is to move to an insurance based service as in the USA. As a very well paid but self employed IT consultant, that would probably bankrupt myself and many others. My wife has a lifelong health condition requiring regular blood tests a raft of drugs and annual consultations with one of the world wide experts in the condition. A recent hospital stay of my own would have cost us tens of thousands of pounds, I'm still awaiting the results of the tests taken during a post stay diagnostic visit and, whilst i have worries about my long term health, I have no worries about the cost of future treatment as there will be no cost (other than parking charges at the hospital).
It is essential that reporting on the NHS reflects it's true status and it is completely unacceptable to describe it in US terms as this is normalising the idea that such a change to its status would be acceptable. Please correct the working in the article to reflect the true position.
"the far right have suggested that the only way to rescue the NHS is to move to an insurance based service as in the USA"
This is an alt-right lie. Clever of you to claim it's the far right who say what in fact every sensible person does, and then twist it a bit.
In fact, everyone who knows anything about it agrees we should move to an insurance based service as in Scandinavia, Europe, and so-on.
When I lived and worked in the UK, I paid "National Insurance" so did everybody who worked. If you were a student, it was normally deemed to have been paid; a married woman could pay what used to be called "the 6 penny stamp", meaning that if she did work she would be covered by her husband’s insurance, but she could pay the "full stamp" to get personal cover. I find it amusing that, according to most figures the US compulsory cost for health averages about $12,000 compared to the UK cost of <$6,000.
It might not be cynical to postulate that the US system does not produce a significantly better outcome, and that it may have been designed to maximise profit? Personal experience in the UK indicates that Conservative governments deliberately underinvest in the publicly funded sector so that they can be privatized and sold off…
Didn't the great Blair sell off a good chunk of the NHS? Or at least dump it with a huge amount of debt through his public private investments.
I do not believe there is any level of funding that will fix the NHS. All these calls for 'fully finding' but what actual number is that?
The US system is geared for profit over anything else. Because they can. The establishment politicians (Dem and GOP) are very much in the pay of big medical and big pharma. As is the CDC, FDA etc. The system is geared to be as obscure as possible and ensure zero competition. The ACA just made things worse as it forced mergers and consolidation. No-where else in civilised society would a system where you can't be told the cost until after the fact be allowed. And doctors offering cash services are actively shut down.
The US govt enables monopolies (as it makes them money) such as healthcare, medicines, food stuffs (such as baby formula) and then when they retire they get very nice jobs working for the companies they supported.
In 2002, twelve years after Margaret Thatcher left office, she was asked what was her greatest achievement. Thatcher replied: “Tony Blair and New Labour." Blair apparently agreed.
How ever much is spent on health "it will not be enough". Outcomes are unlikely to be improved until more is done on prevention, the current system can actually favour ill health, as most is spent on treatment. Maybe the alleged traditional oriental system of only paying doctors whilst you are healthy :-)
Pharmacist wife, (was NHS county head level), and her friends from University who now work for big Pharma, all say that there is no money to be made from curing people. The money is to be made by keeping people going as long as possible and using their drugs.
I've heard of at least 2 drugs that in the initial trials cured people of the illnesses, but were not progressed further by big Pharma, as if successful, that would dry up one of their best revenue streams.
Assuming you are replying to my AC comment above.
I have no idea what you are on about.
Many of my wife's cohort from University keep in touch and after 40+ years have risen to high levels in their professions. These are decision makers.
The main reason that this is AC, is that it would be very bad for their positions if it was known that they were still friends while working at the top of competing companies.
Not pursuing promising drugs is not a secret. Very many are just taken far enough to gain protection and then shelved indefinitely. A smaller number go through early trials before shelving, and some as far as early human trials.
Pharmacist wife, (was NHS county head level), and her friends from University who now work for big Pharma, all say that there is no money to be made from curing people. The money is to be made by keeping people going as long as possible and using their drugs.
Anyone who has ever taken a short course of antibiotics to completely cure an infection knows that this is bollocks
I've heard of at least 2 drugs that in the initial trials cured people of the illnesses, but were not progressed further by big Pharma, as if successful, that would dry up one of their best revenue streams.
Citation needed
I work in research for one of the big pharma and the aim is generally to cure.
"I work in research for one of the big pharma and the aim is generally to cure."
That almost certainly is the case in R, maybe even in D. But I think he's suggesting that the beancounters at the top may not share those lofty ideals. Whether that would be possible without whistleblowers is another matter, something you may be able to shed some light on. (bear in mind you may have to respond to conspiracy theorists claiming cartels with government links and even the Illuminati before you do answer) :-)
I paid "National Insurance" so did everybody who worked
For people outside the UK, this is where the confusion often sets in. NI is essentially just another general tax. Despite the name it is not (and never has really been) an insurance premium, and indeed except perhaps in the early days it isn't possible to say that the income to the government from NI "pays for" even a major part of the NHS. Your NI contributions can have an effect on the amount of state pension or working-age state benefits you are entitled to, but paying NI isn't paying into a personal "pension pot" either as current pensions are paid from current revenue.
The key difference, of course, against a fully-insured system in the manner of the US is that nobody at A&E is going to ask to see your insurance documentation or credit card before letting you leave. Even if you have never paid a penny of NI in your life (it can happen), you are entitled to all the resources the NHS can afford to throw at you. It seems ridiculous that most people in the US rely on health insurance via their current employer, with all the hassle involved if/when you get married, start a family, are made redundant, resign, are "between jobs" and so on.
M.
Personal experience in the UK indicates that Conservative governments deliberately underinvest in the publicly funded sector
Your personal experience is incorrect, at least as far as the NHS is concerned. All governments (both Labour and Conservative) have consistently increased NHS funding above inflation in real terms for the past 70 years, (with an occasional blip here & there).
.. and wasted a frankly stupendous amount of that extra funding by appointing people in management who would not have lasted half a Truss in the commercial world. The service is milked left, right and centre - if that waste could be curtailed (by, for instance, thinning our management and spending the money on better pay for nursing and trainee GPs it would make a dramatic difference.
We saw during Covid what the service is capable of, but it has not really resulted in better conditions or lower workload for the people who are at the forefront of trying to keep everyone healthy.
That said, if I see what US health insurers get away with and pharma with price structures that are well into the realms of legalised daylight robbery and I'd venture that even in its current state the NHS is still a better solution.
In general there are two things that determine a nations future, education and health. Put either out of reach and you are on the road to destruction. It may take generations, but there will be consequences.
Just Google it. You'll find the same data in many places, all UK governments increased spending above inflation every year, some more than others. For example:
The Institute for Fiscal Studies Real spending increased from £12.8 billion in 1955–56 to £143.7 billion in 2015–16 (2017–18 prices). This growth in spending is larger than the increase in national income over this period. As a result, health spending increased from 2.8% of national income in 1955–56 to 7.4% in 2015–16. Health spending also increased at a quicker rate than other government spending. Health spending therefore grew from 7.7% of public spending in 1955–56 (or 11.2% of public service spending) to 18.4% of public spending in 2015–16 (29.9% of public service spending).
fullfact.org (data from the IFS)
The British Medical Journal UK health expenditure has increased by almost 4% a year in real terms over the lifetime of the NHS. Real per capita spending was £268 in 1949-50, increasing to £2273 by 2016-17. But spending has been volatile, driven by both political ideology and the need to fund substantial reforms (fig 2). Periods of relative famine, creating political crises fuelled by concerns about quality of care, have been followed by periods of relative feast, often stimulating price and wage inflation.
and many more. There's no easy solution, but it's not a party political issue.
Part of the problem, of course, is that medical care has increased in all manner of costs since the 1950s. Back when the NHS was formed, most people were overjoyed that they could afford to get their broken leg set properly after an industrial accident so that they could get back to work as soon as possible, that they could afford for a qualified dentist to deal with their rotten teeth, that there was a medical professional on hand when they were giving birth and that at the ends of their lives - probably between 55 and 75 years old - there was palliative care available.
Then things like antibiotics became widely available, novel forms of medicine were introduced which required huge investments in training and equipment (radiotherapy, chemotherapy, interventions such as dialysis, organ transplants and the like), people started living longer (partly because of better healthcare) and it becomes obvious why the budget of the NHS simply has to rise above inflation across all of that period, and it also explains why premiums for health insurance have also risen.
I know someone who works in the NHS in a team which does something that even science fiction writers weren't predicting back in the 1950s - they fit people with cochlear implants. If you've never heard of such a thing, from the outside it looks like a bulky hearing aid, but the clever stuff happens inside. For suitable people, electrodes can stimulate the auditory nerve directly, giving some sensation of hearing to some people for whom hearing aids do not work. The younger the patient, the more chance the brain has to adapt, and some people who were first implanted as babies can "hear" almost as well as "normal" people. But the kit isn't cheap. Tens of thousands of pounds for the surgery, for the equipment, and tens of thousands more over the years because of follow-up and because the NHS pays an insurance premium to replace lost or damaged devices. Child has a paddy and throws his processor down the loo? Free replacement as quickly as the courier can deliver direct from the manufacturer, all loaded up with the correct settings. Package through the door, hearing restored within a few minutes.
This procedure is costing the NHS hundreds of thousands of pounds per patient these days - but back in the 1950s a deaf child would have been lucky to have been able to attend a special "deaf" school. Cost to the NHS, nil.
BBC Horizon, Curtain of Silence (1973)
BBC Horizon, Now the Chips are Down (1978) - the whole programme will be interesting to a reader of El. Reg, but the relevant part for this discussion starts at about 18m30s.
Now, the NHS is in a fantastic bargaining position with regard to many of these advances and there have been numerous stories over the years about how the NHS often pays less than a private health insurer would, but that doesn't change the fact that there are more "things" which need paying for, and the newest things are usually the most expensive. Life-saving treatments costing millions of pounds are available now, where in the 1950s the person would have been cared-for until the inevitable.
Even staff are more expensive - newly-registered nurses are going to need sufficient salaries to be able to pay off loans and make up for the four years of training because they don't enter the profession at 15 or 16 with a CSE or two any more; they have to be educated (mostly on-the-job) to degree standard, which means a couple of good A-levels as a minimum.
So it's hardly surprising the NHS costs as much as it does and while there is definitely a layer of middle-management which seems to add costs without adding any benefits (just ask any "shop floor" NHS staff), if we want to keep the concept of universal, world-leading, free-at-the-point-of-use healthcare, with no means-testing or preconditions to qualify for treatment, we simply have to accept that its budget (judging by past performance) will always have to increase ahead of inflation - but hopefully not by too much.
M.
Perhaps you may not have enough political cynicism in your life? Conservatives tend to come up with ideas like "National Health Trusts" (1990 Thatcher/Major). This was to give "more local control" by bringing in internal markets encouraging purchase of services from local suppliers. It also allowed the Trusts to borrow monies; meaning that a significant amount of NHS funding is spent servicing debt, and has allowed the proliferation of private suppliers; both ideas are classic Thatcherism. Cameron continued this trend with the Health and Social Care Act 2012 which and transferred ~£70 billion of "commissioning", or healthcare funds, from the abolished Primary Care Trusts to several hundred clinical commissioning groups, partly run by general practitioners, but also a major point of access for private service providers. I suspect that the NHS long Term Plan and the Health and Care Act of 2022 will continue the trend of privatization. In the public sector we called this a "pre-sale overhaul" - With something as politically sensitive as the NHS this has to be done incrementally, like the mythical boiled frog.
A caveat: My cynicism may have been developed by my career - Initially as Scientific Civil Servant (including under Thatcher); a senior technical role in a very large public utility; the General Manager of science-based businesses owned by bankers; and the Managing Director and, later, owner of a technology company. I'm retired now.
Not sure why the downvotes - other than the fact that you failed to mention 13 years of Blair/Brown where these "reforms" could have been but were not reversed - but it's also worth mentioning that the funding model is somewhat different in Scotland and Wales where "internal markets" have a far smaller role.
I imagine I've recounted this tale here before, but my first "proper" job was engineering at a local (ILR) radio station. The Engineering department consisted of me and my boss and he told me that shortly before I started they had tried to introduce internal markets to the station. Programming, news, sales, promotions, creative services and (of course) engineering (and doubtless other departments I can't recall now) all developed schedules of costs, and cross-charged the other departments as necessary.
The only department which made a good, consistent profit was - you've guessed it - Engineering (oh, and maybe the cleaner/caretaker). The experiment was quietly dropped and my PFY predecessor went on to a high-powered job with the national broadcaster in the Netherlands, hence my arrival.
M.
ROFL! We've spent the last 6 years getting rid of anything "European". What makes you think the hedge fund managers and private equity firms who run the British establishment will make any better a job than they have of the other public institutions (railways, power, post...)? My guess is they want the chance to suck this market dry like all the others.
What are you talking about? How many coffees have you had today because you are high on something.
Universal healthcare for all is not an insurance based service and never will be. People pay in via tax and everyone gets it.
There are many internet web pages where you can look up the definitions.
Universal Healthcare
Healthcare insurance.
Here's a handy link showing that what you just wrote is utter trash,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care
As you claim that person is "Clever" I would like to counter that with you are "Dumb"
ok oh mighty person of wisdom.
Insurance requires you pay money for cover. Universal healthcare gives healthcare for all regardless.
Show me which countries are not giving universal healthcare to their own population unless they first pay into it. I'm looking forward to the links and evidence you can't provide.
Repeating yourself over and over will not make you right. Show us the links and evidence.
I think that person is having some issues due to lack of soma.
Even the universal healthcare in the UK technically requires you to have paid if you are an adult. And in theory it should charge people from overseas for care if they are visiting. Remember we all had to get our E111 card when going to Eurp so we would be covered. The implication being that without it we would have to pay even if we were in a country with universal healthcare.
The NHS tries to be all things to all people and fails in a lot of ways. If you are leaking bodily fluids from holes that should not be leaking said fluid or have extra holes or have bits hanging off or missing altogether and are in serious threat of being mostly dead then they are pretty darn good at putting you back together. If you have some minor complaint or a chronic illness they can be utterly useless. I know someone who had misdiagnosed skin cancer and was told there was nothing to worry about. By the time it was realised what it was by the NHS it was too late and they passed away. What could have been fixed with a very small op is now in the hands of the lawyers.
"the far right"
Sigh....
Just because the NHS works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone. My local GP surgery (and remember they are private businesses funded by the govt) is still not taking appointments for anything non-emergency and even then if you are able to get yourself to A&E you won't get an appointment. It is an utter shambles.
France and Germany have health insurance based systems and they seem to work out better than the mess we have here. I don't know where you get the notion about going to a US system but your use of certain phrases gives me a hint.
And that's not the fault of the NHS, which would provide those services if adequately funded, and, averaged out over the population, at a lower cost than it would cost privately, because no profit is being extracted.
Put simply, x + profit > x
Something is ALWAYS going to cost more if profit is added on top, because if profit ever becomes negative on an essential service, there is always a tax-payer bailout.
Don't blame the NHS, blame the greedy so-and-sos who want to extract that profit, and who are trying to force the NHS into such a model by starving it of funding (per-capita funding of the NHS is going down, along with pretty much all other public services, taxes are going up, something doesn't add up, but by observation, the number of billionaires is also going up...)
So can we call wanting to send them to the gulags vile far left nonsense?
It seems to be a running theme with left wing ideologies, round up anyone you don't like and ship them off somewhere. I believe a couple of European countries did that in the '20s and '30s followed by most of South America and now happening in the USA.
I think we can both agree that far right and far left are both pretty bad, and, as has been observed many a time, travel too far in one direction, and you end up looking very much the same as if you had travelled too far in the other. Rather than arguing about who was right, Hitler or Stalin, maybe we should accept that sanity lies in the middle ground.
It's also worth noting, that the ground that is considered the centre in many places, is somewhat to the left of what is considered the "centre" in the UK, with the general political community here having moved quite a long way to the right of where it should be. Hence, policies which nobody would bat an eyelid over in mainland Europe, such as public ownership of public utilities, is considered to be Marxism by a large portion of the UK press.
Of course, much fun can be had by asking which of Marx's ideas is the one that such people don't like, and when they inevitably reach the conclusion that ideologically, there's nothing wrong with any of them, and the fault with Marxism lies in the fact that it doesn't work in practice, you can point out that the reason that it doesn't work in practice is people like then. In other words, utopian ideals tend to fall apart once you add arseholes into the mix. Hence the need for middle-ground pragmatism, based on evidence-led policymaking, which tends to lead to centre-left policies in places where there are adults in charge, and where it gets applied.
You seem to have my ocmment the wrong way up, and in fact to be agreeing with me.
"France and Germany have health insurance based systems and they seem to work out better than the mess we have here"
That's what I said. It's only far right nutjobs who claim some nonsense about selling out to the US.
"That's what I said. It's only far right nutjobs who claim some nonsense about selling out to the US."
I wasn't replying to you but you might actually want to leave your echo chamber every once in a while as the 'far right nutjobs' do not want a US style system. Heck the 'far right nutjobs' in the US don't want a US style system.
The US system has been ruined by the crony corrupt corporate Dems and GOP, specifically the Dems under Obamacare. They want the least number of insurers so there is no competition, the least number of providers, so there is no competition and forced private insurance by pretty much forcing cash service providers out of business. The covid response in the US healthcare system showed just how corrupt things were.
The 'far right nutjobs', which I assume probably includes MAGA in your worldview, want proper free market competition where you can pick and choose based on price and service, a bit like dentists and vets in the UK.
"as the 'far right nutjobs' do not want a US style system"
I never suggested anything of the sort. They tell lies that have the effect they desire. One of them is about 'the you know whos' trying to 'squeeze profits' out of that holy national icon, the NHS, at the expense of lives. It's Nazi propaganda, not a real argument. As you knew when you posted it.
"The 'far right nutjobs', which I assume probably includes MAGA in your worldview,"
Yes, and the view of everyone who isn't a far right nutjob.
"want proper free market competition where you can pick and choose based on price and service"
Nope, that's the Scandinavian and European model. You are a flagrantly lying Nazi propaganda merchant. Do one.
France and Germany have health insurance based systems and they seem to work out better than the mess we have here
You've obviously never lived in France. Want an opthalmologist appointment? Come back in December, that's when we'll be opening appointments for next August. Got a hospital bill? State pays 60%, you need insurance for the rest. As for dental treatment, not much different to the UK in terms of cost, although it is easier to find a dentist (perhaps because so few people bother?).
Sounds like the NHS. Want to see a doctor for a minor issue? Yeah, you can wait until it goes away on its own or lands you in A&E. Which is why I go private. Want to see a GP? Sure, later today or tomorrow? And its on time and you get a good amount of time to talk to them. Last appointment was £85 but that was a few years back.
My wife has a lifelong health condition requiring regular blood tests a raft of drugs and annual consultations with one of the world wide experts in the condition. A recent hospital stay of my own would have cost us tens of thousands of pounds, I'm still awaiting the results of the tests taken during a post stay diagnostic visit and, whilst i have worries about my long term health, I have no worries about the cost of future treatment
Because s̶o̶m̶e̶o̶n̶e̶ everyone else will be funding it for you?
Carry On, Jack, I'm all right.
Ever heard these lines? Especially the last one, that is the most recent.
If you eat junk food so its your fault you are sick, you should have to pay.
If you smoke..
If you drink...
If you don't get the vaxx you should be cared for last
Usually spouted by the same people who claim healthcare and the welfare state are fundamental rights.
So you AC think that healthcare isn't a fundamental right?
What a strange interpretation of my comment.
Of course people have the right to have access to good healthcare, but when someone says that they don't care what their healthcare will cost because they know that someone else will pay for it, I do find it annoying.
A little personal responsibility from time to time wouldn't hurt.
they don't care what their healthcare will cost because they know that someone else will pay for it
I don't think that's the correct interpretation, and it certainly isn't the way most people I know look at the NHS. It's not "someone else will pay for it", it's "everyone will pay for it" - including, if I've been paying taxes - myself.
It's the same as arguing that you shouldn't be charged the portion of your income tax which goes to pay for schools if you don't have (and don't intend to have) children yourself. It's not far off arguing that women should be paid less than men because over their careers it (can) cost more to employ a woman than a man, simply because of having to cover her maternity pay and temporary job cover.
However that does not (and I think this is what you really meant) remove responsibility from individuals to look after their own health as well as possible. Deciding to live exclusively on pork scratchings and ginger beer might be delicious (for the first couple of weeks anyway) but it's not a responsible way to look after your body, and "it's ok, the NHS will take care of me when I get ill" isn't a suitable long-term health strategy!
M.
I was visiting a friend in hospital during the latest(?) NHS upgrade (from Windows 7 to Windows 10 IIRC). As he hadn't come back from the operating theatre yet I got chatting to the staff, and asked how the upgrade was going. The reply was along the lines of "you may have noticed the phones are ringing non-stop, we have Post-It notes stuck everywhere, and all horizontal surfaces are covered in sheets of paper". Right, so about as well as could be expected.
I have no problem with them except for one, which is very important in engineering.
Metre for length.
A meter is a measuring instrument.
When I worked in the USA (which I did for over 20 years) I always used the proper spelling for length. It is, after all, a fundamental SI unit. Many of the 're' words are actually perfectly valid according to various (American) dictionaries, incidentally.
Back in the days of Novell 3 servers, when men were men and "servers" were workstation style towers with SCSI cards crammed in...
Bossman and I were on a network wiring cleanup job. The plan was to pull a late night shift removing the rats nest of wire behind the "server rack" (large workbench with three levels of servers and some KVMs) and redo everything with neatly run, appropriate length, and properly labeled cables.
Boss was in front of the rack systematically shutting down and powering off the servers. I was in back, removing cabling from the downed machines.
Things were going well (I hadn't managed to get ahead of the boss and pull cables from a running server yet) when I heard the distinctive click of an AT style power putton being pushed in. Instead of the corresponding click of the button extending, I heard a familiar voice say "oooooh Fuuuuck!" Followed by "hey Anon, come over here, switch to $Important_servername and type 'down', will you? "
I attempted to start an impromptu salary negotiation session, but Boss made a counteroffer involving a roll of carpet, a shovel, and some quicklime.
This happened to a computer operator I worked with. It was around 1975 and he was operating an IBM 370/145 mainframe.
There was a blue "Interrupt" button on the panel, which you would press to communicate with GRASP, the spooling system, for instance to halt or restart a job queue.
Nearby was the red power button, identical in size and shape. Press it and nothing happens; release it and the machine shuts down, regardless of what is running.
He reached for the interrupt button without looking, pressed it --- and realized his mistake.
He had to use the typewriter with one hand to gracefully shut down the jobs one by one. He managed to do it without causing any serious damage. Then he let the button go, let the machine power off, and pressed it again to start it back up.
Phoned a customer who was having problems with a modem line and wanted him to send me a test tone so I could check it for distortion... started to say 'press the test button for 15 seconds then come back to the phone' but too late!
He bravely held the button in for at least 10 mins, with the occasional blip as her changed fingers/hands, until I finally managed to contact one of his colleagues to tell him enough
I was upgrading an SQL server after hours and accidentally performed a destructive copy operation on the root folder of the database. I did not realize it until hours later. I woke at midnight with that one File Explorer operation in my mind. I immediately drove 20 miles to the work site and shut down the server, so that the delete operation would not be copied to the replication server. In the morning, I was able to restore from the replication server but it could have been nasty. Of course, we make weekly backups but something would have been lost and it would have taken months to notice all the gaps.
I'd tear off a suitable length of duct tape, put something on the switch (could be a ball of wadded up duct tape) and strap the switch on. The trick is getting the finger positioned so after the fix is in place the digit can be removed (while still attached to the hand, obviously). I have gaffers tape myself, but I'm weird that way.
The Register 
Biting the hand that feeds IT
Copyright. All rights reserved © 1998–2024
