Still more Tasers for plods - but still not in London

The Home Office yesterday announced funding for a further 6,000 Taser electroshock stunguns to be used by police forces across England and Wales. Nonetheless it appears that in London the weapons will not be widely issued, a situation condemned by rank-and-file officers' spokesmen. The funding for 6,000 additional Tasers is on …

[Mad Mike]

Usage

Nobody is denying that tasers have their place. In certain circumstances, they will help prevent injuries to both the policemen and potentially the criminal. However, in various countries around the world, we can see them being used in completely stupid situations. Someone refused to cooperate with verbal instructions, next stop 50,000 volts. A gross inflamation of the situation for no good reason. Where the criminal is being violent, that's a different situation.

What about a series of Ashes to Ashes with Gene Hunt armed with this technology........... I can just see it now.

'Do you confess to the crime?' ...........zzzzzzzzz...zzzzzzzzzz....zzzzzzzz....zzzzzzzzz

'You got me fair and square copper, I'll cough.Now, can I have some cream for these electricity burns.'

[Anonymous Coward]

Just in time for the summer of rage

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/23/police-civil-unrest-recession

Ahh Britain in the Summer, the modest sunshine, warm overpriced beer, cricket on the lawn, afternoon teas, anti government peaceful protests, rozzer beating clubbing and electrocuting people like baby seals, helicopters filling the blue cloud free skies, police photographers photograph the masses for their records, air conditioned CCTV control rooms,...

I think I'll give it a miss.

[Ben Snape]

Tranche?

"Lower-ranking officers' spokesmen have seized the occasion of yesterday's second Taser-funding tranche to criticise the MPA's stance."

Didn't they get the memo

I think they meant SLICE

[peter garner]

For plastic police also?

God help us photographers if the PCSOs ever get issued with Tasers! Anyone carrying anything other than a compact camera is "fair game" and if they apply their usual level of intelligence we're stuffed!

http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?q=PCSO&w=705632%40N23&m=discuss

[Anonymous Coward]

The MPA.....

is right not to issue Taser's to the Met police. You only need to look at a few of the videos

on here to see what the scummy police do when they want to bully someone unecessarily

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=tasers&aq=f

[Ray]

IPCC serve cops, not public

"Not only does Taser provide a less lethal alternative to firearms but it provides confidence and reassurance to officers when confronted with volatile situations."

I think the IPCC misunderstand the definition of alternative. From the Collins Dictionary tells it thusly:

"Alternative.

1. a possibility of choice between two or more things,

2. either or any of such choices,"

Viz, an alternative is a choice between one or more things. As cops do not currently carry firearms into non-lethal situations, this is no alternative. It is a choice by the IPCC to increase their powers of physical intimidation over the public. When public confidence in the police to make the correct decisions based on law is at an all time low, I think this is a pretty short sighted move, transparently designed to curry favour with rank and file coppers.

Do the IPCC really see the public as an entity to be subdued?

If the IPCC want more support from the public and greater confidence in dealing with volatile situations, they should consider the following:

1) How trust is gained,

2) How fear is promoted,

3) If their ultimate goal is security for their members or public confidence, and

4) Who pays their wages

[David]

Pre-Emptive Tasering

"Rather than clubbing or wrestling people into submission, police would zap them and cuff them."

This presumes that the person being tasered actually shows any sign of being a threat to police officers or anyone else.

The worrying thing that is now being seen is approval being given for 'pre-emptive tasering' of people (seen on a recent episode of 'Traffic Cops' on BBC1). In the Traffic Cops example, the suspect matched a description of an armed criminal, and was tasered with no warning whatsoever. It was a case of mistaken identity.

Seems an odd arrangement - would a police officer use a baton (a "non-lethal weapon" also, no?) without warning to hit over the head someone they suspected *could* be a particular dangerous person? Yet tasering someone in the same way is somehow acceptable....

Seems a dangerous road to start going down....

[Scary]

non-deadly force?

Try telling that to the Polish guy murdered by Canadian policemen at Vancouver airport.

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously Jacqui expects some rioting

over Labours criminally inept government, ruining everybody and completely and irreversibly shafting the nation.

She's right too. If there's a passing lynch mob heading for number ten I'm joining it! soon as I don my foil suit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Qualification..

Tasers should only be used by officers who volunteer to fully understand them.

does that make sense? coppers need to understand that a Taser is the Highest level of force they have available beside armed officers. its use MUST reflect this status!

Disproportionate force is a crime in itself!

[Sooty]

less lethal, not non-lethal

"the Home Office gave permission for them to be used in non-deadly-force situations"

the problem with this, is that tasers can be deadly, so there use in non-deadly-force situations is inappropriate.

If, like lethal force, there were a defined set of circumstances in which tasers could be used, and clearance needed before hand, i would be perfectly happy for every cop in the country to carry one. Whichever way, the penalties for inappropriate use need to be severe, we only have to look at america to see how they are being abused

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada's taser experience: not good

The taser debate is a moderately complex issue. Many of the pro-taser arguments appear to be logical on the surface, but are actually subtly wrong, or are not supported by the facts. In Canada, the debate is further along than in most other countries. There are two blogs dedicated to the topic - and these blogs contain a gold mine of information.

All the news is here: http://truthnottasers.blogspot.com/

All the arguments are here: http://www.excited-delirium.com/ (do not forget the dash)

Both of the above blogs have many hundreds of posts containing a vast amount of material. And, for the most part, it's all linked back to sources. There's enough dirt on SOME of the pro-taser folks to make you question their fundamental ethics. There are also some fundamental science questions that have not yet been widely understood. You have to first understand the connections and tactics of the pro-taser forces, and then the larger picture snaps into focus.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm

Taser armed and trained plods, with solid monitoring, I don't mind so much - like armed police, should be a rare sight.

Average plod with no specific training given a taser? No way. We already know "ordinary" plods misuse them.

Then again, if we have a rule of "every time you use a taser on someone, you will be tasered yourself later", I can see that. I can see coppers behaving themselves then...

[Anonymous Coward]

Taser provide a less lethal

Lethal, just less.....i feel better already.

[Anonymous Coward]

Flying Cattleprods

I recently witnessed a bobby's using a taser on a small bovine that had wandered onto a busy road. The result - the cow ran 100 meters down the road and became a lot more wary of anyone approaching it. An hour later they still hadn't caught it.

A fine example of intelligence led policing.

Flames - BBQ Beef.

[adnim]

@AC:Flying cattle prods

I felt sorry for the cow, but laughed when I thought of the level of intelligence and training of your above mentioned bobby. Then I became very worried as I thought about the kind of training that produces a policeman who thinks it is acceptable or good practice to taser a cow.

I wouldn't mind the police having tasers if they were properly trained, and could be trusted to only use them in self defence or the defence of another life. And never to taser someone for simply running away, for torture, punishment, intimidation. But that will never happen, so I do mind.

[Shane Orahilly]

Be prepared

The essential clothing for any aspiring rioter in 2009 is a mobile Faraday cage:

http://i.gizmodo.com/5173430/guy-in-chain-mail-faraday-suit-takes-star-wars-tesla-coil-music-to-the-next-level

[Michael Fremlins]

The police federation

I really don't care tuppence what they say or think. The first duty of the police should be to protect the public, not themselves.

Let's face it, the police knew that tasers were not an issue item when they joined. Too bad if they can't do the job without them, find somebody else who will.

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep you toys in the pram.

Children, children please. Calm down and wind your necks in. PCSOs will not carry Taser. Trained police officers will carry it but it may well be limited to those in 'response vehicles' etc. Dixon of Dock Green will still be the lovely approachable man he always was. David mentioned clubbing round the head. That is not in the training because the use of a side-handled baton or an 'Asp' in such a manner is likely to kill somebody. If the copper feels their or another's life is in danger then anything goes but it shouldn't happen.

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on, Do Be Fair!

"Commissioner Blair was finally ousted by London's new mayor, bicycling Tory mediatart Boris Johnson"

That would be innocent Brazilian Electrician shooting Commissioner Blair, yes?

[Wayland Sothcott]

Essex Police Swagger about toting tazers

I think they mainly like to sugesst you cower before their might or they will tazer you into submission. They seem pretty chuffed with them, clearly it makes them feel tougher.

Check the foil lining.