back to article Japan taps industry to build safer, more secure nuclear energy future

Japan is about to change course on energy policy following the Fukushima disaster in 2011 with a focus on developing safer nuclear reactors. The country put a stop to the construction of new nuclear plants after a tsunami hit the eastern prefecture, home to the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant, resulting in the most …

  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Over-reaction much?

    "The companies want to reduce the reactor's probability of sustaining damage to less than 1 percent of current models by installing it underground "

    Hopefully they are applying the same rules to office towers in Tokyo

    1. CrackedNoggin Bronze badge

      Re: Over-reaction much?

      Are you talking about earthquakes? Relatively low "high-rises" and the most advanced earthquake proofing construction for modern buildings (post 80's).

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Over-reaction much?

        They are talking about putting reactors in underground bunkers so terrorists can't fly planes into them.

  2. Arthur the cat Silver badge

    The focus is on improving the control-rod drive mechanism, responsible for adjusting nuclear reaction, to halve output or bring the reactor back online in 17 minutes, about a quarter of the time it takes existing reactors.

    The problem with rapidly dropping output and then bringing it back up in a hurry is neutron poisoning by Xe135. Finer control of of the control rods might help in burning it off a bit faster, but there's one hell of a risk of instability.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Beneath the containment vessel, a "core catcher" will be installed to prevent molten fuel escaping in the event of a meltdown. I believe this is to both catch and quench, the catcher being constructed of lead. Like a dead mans brake.

    That idea is not new, it just has been waiting to be implemented. To recap the Fukushima disaster, reactor no 1 was damaged, and a decision needed to be made whether or not to pump seawater into it to cool it down - which as a side effect would write-off the reactor due to the salt water corrosion. Seawater cooling was started, then HQ (the board of TEPCO, about 50km from the site) decided almost immediately to stop it, hoping to later repair the reactor, while the on-site manager, suspecting a melt down, quietly disobeyed orders and started the seawater cooling up again, unknown to HQ.

    Months later, it was discovered that reactor number 1 had actually melted down (through the bottom of the reactor), and was also discovered that the on-site manager had continued the cooling - and his decision had been the right one in terms of safety - possibly preventing a far worse Chernobyl type disaster. He got a reprimand from HQ, while HQ eventually got an even bigger reprimand and criminal charges from an investigative panel later on. Meanwhile, the leaked meltdown is looking to cost hundreds of billions of dollars over several decades.

    Human error, war, natural disasters - shit happens and a fail safe is needed. Of course it will be more expensive to construct, but a lot cheaper in the long run.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Thank for also hilighting a key issue.

      At the core of the Fukushima disaster were issues with the corporate culture at TEPCO and in the goverment.

      The attempts at face saving politics in the face of disaster were core in all of the worst reactor incidents. Japan is even more susceptible to them then the Russians. Without an onsite, independent, and authoritative team that can make the calls that need to be made, operating a reactor that can't be shut off like a switch is a dicey prospect no matter how many other safety features it has.

      If Japan is going to restart it nuclear industry safely, it will need to build something it has never really had except on paper. Everyone above the control room level was more concerned about getting permission from people with less information, less training, and even more conflicts of interest then they had.

      The plant literally got hit by a massive tsunami. At the point the backup generators had been offline for more than a few minutes after an emergency scram, the onsite team was justified to consider doing a borate kill. Instead they waited for approval from Tokyo, in the wake of the massive regional disruption of the Earthquake and tsunami.

      Because of the cultural factors I'd outsource the onsite safety team to a bunch of Germans with a very strict contract and broad onsite authority. That way there are as few incentives to hold back on making the hard decisions that will hit the operators or insurers bottom line.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Thank for also hilighting a key issue.

        You said The plant literally got hit by a massive tsunami. and that was exactly TEPCO's (failed) defense: nobody could have predicted it. But actually TEPCO had been informed of the risk by multiple sources, including their own employees.

        Japan has suffered 195 tsunamis since 400, according to Japan's Central Research Institute of Electric Power Industry, which produced a report on tsunami threats to nuclear plants on the opposite coast to Dai-Ichi in July 2008. Three in the past three decades had waves of more than 10 meters.

        A 7.6-magnitude quake in 1896 off the east coast of Japan created waves as high as 38 meters, while an 8.6- magnitude temblor in 1933 led to a surge as high as 29 meters, according to the US Geological Survey.

        There probably won't be another tsunami like that (39 meters) in Fukushima for 1000 years. So for a 40 extended to 70 yr plant, there is only a 1 in 14 chance of getting hit. Multiplied by 20 plants located at various points on the coastline around the country ...

        Live and learn. They seem to have learned.

        1. M.V. Lipvig Silver badge

          Re: Thank for also hilighting a key issue.

          Have they? They plan to put new plants underground. Will they put them all higher than 40 meters over sea level if the highest tsunami was (assumption here) 38 meters?

  4. theOtherJT Silver badge

    1.2 million kilowatts

    Does someone have a particular objection to the term Gigawatts?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 1.2 million kilowatts

      Too reminiscent of Back to the Future. The movie essentially killed the serious use of the term Gigawatts.

      1. Spherical Cow Silver badge

        Re: 1.2 million kilowatts

        1.2 gigawatts is not quite enough for time travel, you need 1.21 gigawatts for that ;-)

      2. deadlockvictim

        Re: 1.2 million kilowatts

        I thought those units were Jigawatts.

        I did wonder where they would find that sort of power.

    2. Alumoi Silver badge

      Re: 1.2 million kilowatts

      It's all about proportions. 1.2 GW it's a mere 'one point two' while 1.2 million kW is a freaking 'one point two million'

      1. anothercynic Silver badge

        Re: 1.2 million kilowatts

        Exactly this.

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: 1.2 million kilowatts

        The Japanese really like tea so, like all civilised countries, they calibrate their power stations in 3 KW kettles

  5. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    At least they didn't say 30 million kWH/day

  6. M.V. Lipvig Silver badge

    FINALLY!

    Sure wish more countries, like, say, the US would recognize that the time to go all-in on nuclear has arrived. A few thorium breeders scattered around would supply the power that solar and wind never will, and we can start eliminating all that nuclear waste people keep whining about. Plus we can make more than enough electricity for those electric cars they want. If the green weenies were serious about ditching fossil fuels for carbon neutral power they'd be backing nuclear.

    Sometimes I think the green weenie end goal is Logan's Run.

    1. Arthur the cat Silver badge

      Re: FINALLY!

      Sometimes I think the green weenie end goal is Logan's Run.

      A young Jenny Agutter in a short skirt has a certain appeal.

    2. Fred Goldstein

      Re: FINALLY!

      Thorium breeders might please green weenies. They can't melt down, make much much less waste, and use a cheap fuel, albeit an expensive seed of U-234.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: FINALLY!

        Of course it wont please them, given the Green's main source of funding - whose priorities are the fermenting division in western societies and maintaining sales of their vast fossil fuel resources - although they've blown that one as far as the west is concerned now.

  7. rcxb Silver badge

    The horse has bolted...

    Somebody close the barn door!

    Solar, wind and geothermal are mature technologies already undercutting nuclear, and they're becoming more economical by the day. Tidal power generation has a lot of promise, too. I realize there are some places in the world where these technologies aren't well suited, but Japan being an island nation along tectonic fault lines can probably put all of these technologies to good use. There are also an increasingly large number of grid scale energy storage options, which are also falling in price, reducing the need for peak or baseload power plants as well.

    The idea that anyone would dump money into years of R&D for new nuclear power design right now, is akin to developing better CRT televisions. By the time they could be built and start producing energy, the renewable options will have driven the prices of wholesale electricity much lower. There will be no hope of selling electricity at a profit, and in fact early decommissioning seems quite likely. There's a small market for new nuclear power plants *right now*, but wait a few years for new designs and that market will have vanished.

    1. LybsterRoy Silver badge

      Re: The horse has bolted...

      -- they're becoming more economical by the day --

      REMEMBER wind is free

      --Solar, wind and geothermal are mature technologies--

      BUT still want subsidies (under a different name of course)

      PLUS the amount of land onshore wind turbines require over the equivalent space for a nuclear plant and the massive concrete beds they sleep in which is great for run off

      FINALLY remember intermittency.

      1. Arthur the cat Silver badge

        Re: The horse has bolted...

        PLUS the amount of land onshore wind turbines require over the equivalent space for a nuclear plant and the massive concrete beds they sleep in which is great for run off

        I suggest you look at this article from Our World in Data on land use per energy source. Total directly impacted land use for onshore wind is similar to nukes (0.4 m²/MWh vs 0.3 m²/MWh). You can use the land between the turbine bases for other things like farming. For maximum power generation, put agrivoltaics round the turbine bases plus some storage batteries.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: The horse has bolted...

          >You can use the land between the turbine bases for other things like farming.

          What about the number of migratory pigs impacted by the turbine blades

          1. Arthur the cat Silver badge

            Re: The horse has bolted...

            What about the number of migratory pigs impacted by the turbine blades

            Bacon rashers. Nuff said.

    2. Arthur the cat Silver badge

      Re: The horse has bolted...

      The idea that anyone would dump money into years of R&D for new nuclear power design right now, is akin to developing better CRT televisions.

      And yet much money is being dumped into R&D for electric vehicles, which pre-dated (and were made temporarily obsolete by) internal combustion powered ones. Researching alternatives when the technology has advanced is A Good Thing.

    3. adam 40 Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: The horse has bolted...

      "Solar, wind and geothermal are mature technologies already undercutting nuclear" except at night on a still day, on sedimentary rock.

      At those times, the price of electricity rises to the point where nuclear is the cheapest (or only) source.

      What to do? Have nukes too, but only throttle them up at night when wind forecast is also low. During other times, reduce the power to conserve the fuel.

      1. rcxb Silver badge

        Re: The horse has bolted...

        Geothermal and tidal work all day and all night. While solar is intermittent, it tends to produce its power around peak demand periods. And I specifically mentioned grid-level storage technologies, which are also cheaper to operate than nuclear plants.

    4. SImon Hobson Bronze badge

      Re: The horse has bolted...

      Solar, wind and geothermal are mature technologies already undercutting nuclear, and they're becoming more economical by the day.

      OK, get back to me when you have costings for solar and wind which include catering for when the wind doesn't blow and the sun isn't shining. The reason they are cheap, while other sources have become more expensive, is because they have externalised the costs of intermittency to "someone else".

      To put it in perspective. Realistically, you will need storage for more or less maximum demand for a couple of weeks - Europe wide.

      Near me, they built a battery storage facility. I haven't seen a figure as the many millions included other things - but "£ millions" bought a storage system that has the capacity of a rounding error compared to typical grid loads, for just 1/2 hour.

      Before you call male bovine manure, just cast your mind back to the end of 2010. In Dec 2010 we had a prolonged static high pressure system that meant cold days and even colder nights - people like British Gas offering boiler maintenance contracts couldn't cope with the problems caused by frozen condensate drains. While we had bright days, it was low sun so not really a good angle for a lot of production, and days were short anyway. But we also had no wind.

      OK, we don't have such widespread calm spells all that often, but we do get them. Unless you plan for them, then the plan is fairly simple - when the wind and solar aren't working, the lights go out and people freeze to death. If you thought "smart" meters were to improve management of the network, you are only half right - the primary function is to control demand, firstly by pricing the poor offline, and if that's not enough, by implementing rolling blackouts like we had in the 70s. Of course, back in the 70s we still (mostly) had a clue how to carry on without lecky - these days there's so much that doesn't work without lecky that I think most people would struggle.

      1. SImon Hobson Bronze badge

        Re: The horse has bolted...

        Added to that, my energy supplier's web site likes to offer tidbits of information curtesy of the QI elves. The other day it said that if you gathered all the batteries in the world, they'd amount to just 10 minutes of global electricity usage.

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