back to article Can reflections in eyeglasses actually leak info from Zoom calls? Here's a study into it

Boffins at the University of Michigan in the US and Zhejiang University in China want to highlight how bespectacled video conferencing participants are inadvertently revealing sensitive on-screen information via reflections in their eyeglasses. With the COVID-19 pandemic and the rise in remote work, video conferencing has …

  1. Nifty Silver badge

    Those "multiframe super resolution techniques" don't get talked about much, though it's been vaguely referenced in news articles and cop dramas where fuzzy CCTV images are mysteriously enhanced to make faces recognisable.

    Watching an old episode of 'Cracker' on Britbox recently, I was thinking how great it would be if there was such a thing as a technique to enhance the resolution of old TV recordings. Probably using some sort of multiframe tech with AI. Even getting it from what looks like 360p to a natural looking 1080 would be a major boost.

    There seems to have been a lot of recent development so I'm wondering why the likes of Britbox aren't adopting this tech.

    1. Blazde Silver badge

      Without thinking about it too much.. static scenes wouldn't benefit from multi-frame interpolation (in a not dis-similar way to how detailed photographs don't benefit from resolution enhancement as much as cartoon images do - the required information just isn't present), and there a lot of static scenes in old TV shows so the results would be uneven, glitchy and probably feel more unreal than simply watching the low-res version and letting the more worldy-experienced AI in our heads figure out the detail.

      Zoom meeting eyeglass reflection is probably a best case scenario because there'll always be small amounts of head movement to provide differing information over multiple frames.

      1. abetancort

        Limitations of current Webcams

        An current webcams are painfully slow, they don’t enough onboard processing power, and have shitty lenses, not luminous at all. They capture very few frames per second, at low shutter speeds due to the lack of luminous lenses, and spit a fast lossy compressed video image that is then further processed and compressed by the videoconferencing software. Not the best source to interpolate a higher perceived resolution from multiple frames

      2. that one in the corner Silver badge

        Old telly could end up looking almost exactly *unlike* the modern stuff: the static backgrounds would remain blurry whilst the actors would be super-enhanced to sharp clarity.

        Who knows, maybe we could get so used to actually seeing the actors clearly on Legend, Dave and all the other repeats channels that the compression on the new stuff gets improved.

        1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
          Boffin

          VidFIRE - I'll Explain Later

          It's been used for a lot of archive TV restorations primarily Doctor Who, which IIRC VidFIRE was developed for by the restoration team.

          Simple explanation - https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/VidFIRE

          More detailed* - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VidFIRE

          * Shamelessly hijacked footnote from above "Beyond this, the technique (although critically applauded)[citation needed] has seen relatively little exposure, perhaps because of a belief within the broadcasting industry that public interest in the kind of archive television that would benefit from VidFIRE is insufficient to justify the cost of processing.".

          1. Nifty Silver badge

            Re: VidFIRE - I'll Explain Later

            Interesting, however VidFIRE is quite old technology now, completely pre-AI is seems.

            Since then AI has vastly improved and cost of computing has come down. So I'm still surprised how little research there seems to be. The products I've seen demos of on YouTube don't seem to be ready for full movies. The issue I saw was not so much still images, but moving human forms and textured surfaces. The results with inanimate objects were remarkable though.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hmm, better stop using the 4k camera to stream...

    Otherwise my co-workers may realise I'm browsing pornhub during meetings.

    That said, the furious masturbating's probably a bigger giveaway...

    1. Korev Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Hmm, better stop using the 4k camera to stream...

      “Excuse me, I didn’t catch that. Come again”

    2. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

      Re: Hmm, better stop using the 4k camera to stream...

      "EWww whats just landed on the camera lens?"

      Paris... because she was good at that sorta thing... oh no icon

    3. Twanky

      Re: Hmm, better stop using the 4k camera to stream...

      furious masturbating

      Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me if I got angry.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hmm, better stop using the 4k camera to stream...

      An attempt at humour, one supposes?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hmm, better stop using the 4k camera to stream...

        Nah, he was just trying to get a rise.

    5. Evil Auditor Silver badge

      Re: Hmm, better stop using the 4k camera to stream...

      Oh it's you, Hank! Glad to hear you were watching porn. Until now we always thought you were wanking to the other participants or the Zoom call itself which felt a bit weird.

  3. xyz Silver badge

    IgNobel 2023

    Conclusion: don't wear glasses when on a zoom meeting.. Other video timewasters are available.

    Still filling in that questionnaire.....

    1. that one in the corner Silver badge

      Re: IgNobel 2023

      But if you take off your glasses you'll not be able to clearly see your colleagues in all their glamour.

      Like Fred, who still feels like he is alone in his home office and continues his deep nasal exploration. Or Jill, who sits with her back to the window so she can't see the neighbours doing - what is that? - but gives you the perfect view.

      Maybe, if wearing specs on video calls becomes a well-known security risk, we can turn around the old habits of hiring people just because they are good-looking.

      "Plug-ugly: because Security by Obscurity works on video"

      1. Muscleguy

        Re: IgNobel 2023

        I have been told repeatedly I look better in glasses. They make me look educated which I am.

        1. Evil Auditor Silver badge

          Re: IgNobel 2023

          I'd rather we'd return to wearing masks. I feel that about 110% of all people look better with a surgical mask. Sunglasses is a plus (elevates the leak problem though).

    2. stiine Silver badge

      Re: IgNobel 2023

      Corrected Conclusion Disalble the camera so you don't have to dress for work, or at all.

      Damn, I need that Paris icon, too.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: IgNobel 2023

        We‘ll always have Paris.

        1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: IgNobel 2023

          Not anymore we don't.

  4. 45RPM Silver badge

    It’s absolutely true. And very valuable to me when I’m interviewing someone remotely - because I can see if they’re googling the answers. Vocal tics, unnatural pauses, reflections - all valuable evidence that something might be amiss.

    One indicator on its own won’t condemn an applicant to a failed interview - but put them all together…

    1. abetancort

      Contacts

      They will wear contacts and constraint their upload internet speed to the point you hear them and see a nice blocky image. Good look reading from the contacts.

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        Re: Contacts

        Well at least that shows a degree of cunning and technical expertise - maybe worth employing?

    2. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

      I wish I had cheaters that good.

      Me: That plus sign doesn't do what you think it does.

      Applicant: Nah, it works.

      Me: I see you're pasting in Python then typing C over it. Would you like to do this in Python instead? Any language is fine.

      Applicant: No, C is best.

      Me: ...ooookay

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Ah, the number of "nah, it works" software bugs I've fixed over the years...

        Closer to the topic, I'm pretty dubious about the value of interviewing software developers, and particularly of asking them to solve technical problems during interviews. I don't have any thing better to propose, though. Hiring developers who are competent, reliable, trustworthy, and good team members seems to be a Hard Problem.

    3. iron Silver badge

      I have you beat. I don't wear glasses.

      1. swm

        "I have you beat. I don't wear glasses."

        Your eyes still have pupils though.

  5. RegGuy1 Silver badge
    Facepalm

    No video...

    Er, well don't turn the camera on then. Simples. Why do you need to see your face when what you say is the only thing that matters? Oh, and stick some tape over the camera just to make sure.

    And if you have to have the camera on, 'Sorry boss, my bandwidth is very poor, and can't cope with the extra data.'

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No video...

      Why do they need to see your face when what you say is the only thing that matters?

      Exactly the right question! It is a fact that the out-of-voice-band information is playing SOME highly weighted role(s), otherwise "face" conferencing wouldn't have the popularity that it does. Although there are some reasonable answers: e.g., it helps to remember who said what because faces are easier to remember than printed names of faceless voices (yes, but an icon would suffice), there would endless reams of tediously illogical, unreadable, or unreasonable answers as well.

    2. MrBanana

      Re: No video...

      I have been working from for decades, and find the whole COVID and beyond rush to video calls hilarious. When I was on a call, it was a real call on a real telephone. No bandwidth on modem dialup even for VOIP. Even as technology improved and video from home became a possibility, I never used it. Still don't now.

      1. TeeCee Gold badge

        Re: No video...

        Telephone? Luxury that is. When I were a lad we 'ad to use morse code on 'telegraph. We only 'ad one bloke who knew morse code mind. 'E 'ad use of 'company bicycle and rode round to each person oo wanted to send a message.

        1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

          Re: No video...

          Telegraph? Oh we dreamed of telegraph! We had to use Aldis lamps but couldn't afford the electricity so they were lit from the fat drained off our re-heated meat pies and sausages.

          1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: No video...

            You had light? We were just shouting in the dark, like.

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: No video...

        I worked from home for most of the past 30 years, and even when I was in an office on a regular basis, we worked with remote teams and had daily conference calls. Those were POTS (typically with speakerphones, so even worse than with headsets) until maybe 2005, when we went through a series of videoconferencing options.

        A few of the teams want video for their calls, and I'll do it, because it's not worth the effort or social capital of objecting. Most don't.

        I find video doesn't seem to add anything for me, except that it's mildly pleasant to see those of my remote coworkers whom I've met in the flesh and have a long history with. Some others report that seeing faces makes meetings significantly easier for them to follow and/or easier to sit through.

        My tentative hypothesis is – and I know this sound crazy, but bear with me – different people are different, and some like video, and some don't, and some don't particularly care either way.

    3. Willy Ekerslike

      Re: No video...

      Many years ago (around 25) I was working with one of the oil companies with platforms in the North Sea. Communications had improved greatly since the days when tropospheric scatter was the channel of choice; on one of their relatively new rigs the daily call (a call each morning between onshore engineers and offshore supervision, to discuss the previous days work and plan from the upcoming stuff) - the call was via a satellite video link. On one of their onshore fields, the call was made over the standard phone line with a speaker phone at each end. The contrast in the quality and depth of communications was stark. The only reason the standard phone worked was because any real issues resulted in the engineering team being able to get in a car and take the hall hour drive to the site.

      Communication is two way and being able to see each other adds a lot more than we often realise. When details really matter, the standard of communication matters - of course, not relevant when discussing cat videos (nor indeed for what may be >90% of meetings).

  6. chivo243 Silver badge
    Go

    Decker already did it...

    Enhance 224 to 176.

    Enhance.

    Stop.

    Move in.

    Stop.

    Move in.

    Stop.

    Pull out, track right.

    Stop.

    Center and pull back.

    Stop.

    Track 45 right.

    Stop.

    Center and stop.

    Enhance 34 to 36.

    Pan right and pull back.

    Stop.

    Enhance 34 to 46.

    Pull back.

    Wait a minute.

    Go right.

    Stop.

    Enhance 57-19.

    Stop.

    Track 45 left

    Stop.

    Enhance 15-23

    Gimme a hard copy right there…

    1. Snowy Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Decker already did it...

      That is one sharp film you have there Mr Decker.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Decker already did it...

      Everyone has! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF_qQYrCcns

      1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: Decker already did it...

        Deckard - FTFYTIA.

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Decker already did it...

        Same way we find everyone.

  7. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    "Eyeglasses"? What is this, the 18th century?

    1. Irony Deficient

      “Eyeglasses”? What is this, the 18th century?

      “Eyeglasses” is still a common term in Leftpondia. (“Spectacles” is still occasionally used too, but it is far older, going back to the late 14th century.) Like the season “fall” and the past participle “gotten”, older vocabulary sometimes remains in current use in various dialects.

      1. Martin
        Happy

        Re: “Eyeglasses”? What is this, the 18th century?

        It's quite an old film, but at one point in Twelve Angry Men, a bunch of the characters have a discussion about eyeglasses. Never thought of it till now, but it is an odd word to use. Over here in the UK, it's normally "glasses" or sometimes "specs". Also, "sunglasses" or "sunspecs".

        1. Irony Deficient

          Re: “Eyeglasses”? What is this, the 18th century?

          Never thought of it till now, but it is an odd word to use.

          The OED distinguishes “eyeglasses” from “spectacles”. If it has parts that make use of ears, then they’re technically “spectacles”; otherwise, they’re “eyeglasses” (e.g. a lorgnette or a pince-nez).

          Over here in the UK, it’s normally “glasses” or sometimes “specs”. Also, “sunglasses” or “sunspecs”.

          The first three are used here as well, but I haven’t heard “sunspecs” here — “shades” are used instead.

          1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
            Boffin

            Re: “Eyeglasses”? What is this, the 18th century?

            Sunshades - Some of use simply buy (Transitions or Reactolights) photochromic lenses to cope when we venture into the outside*.

            *Very handy in winter to, until you walk into a shop from the snow covered Canadian exterior & are rendered instantly blind.

            1. Irony Deficient

              Some of us simply buy […] photochromic lenses […]

              Yup — that’s what I did.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: “Eyeglasses”? What is this, the 18th century?

              Photochromic lenses are often slightly tinted in brightly lit indoor, or dimly lit outdoor scenarios, and this makes you look like a kiddie fiddler. Don't wear them unless you want people to cross the street when you walk towards them.

              1. Irony Deficient

                Don’t wear them unless you want people to cross the street when you walk towards them.

                You wrote that as if wanting that were a bad thing. ;*)

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      It's the new official El Reg House Style. North American.

      Some PHB at El Reg has decided that having authors from different parts of the world writing in their own local version of English is confusing for their poor dumb readers and have chosen to do everything in American English instead of English. Maybe most of their writers are from the USA these days. Or maybe their "analytics" show most of their readers are in the USA. Or maybe USA readers are less likely than others to have script blockers blocking the "analytics" and so skewing the results towards the USA.

      But I agree, of so many "Americanisms", eyeglasses feels more jarring to this Brit than most others. Worse even than necktie :-)

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Irony Deficient

          Worse than the use of “shined” in the subheading?

          At this writing, it’s been changed to “shone”.

          As usual, the OED shines some light on the matter:

          The regular str. pa. pple. is rare in Eng., being unrecorded in OE. and appearing only once in ME. sinen ; it was superseded by the weak form shined, which was in common use c 1300–1800; this was supplanted by the form of the str. pa. t., which first appears as pa. pple. in the second half of the 16th c. (Weak forms are found in some of the continental langs., e.g. (pa. t.) late WFris. schynd, MLG. schynede, OHG. scînta, early mod. G. schein(e)te.)

          If Thomas Claburn is a native speaker of a dialect of North American English, then his dialect might still prefer “shined” to “shone” for some meanings of “shine”, perhaps due to influence from German.

          “Shined” is always used here for the causative meaning, e.g. “He shined his shoes until he could see himself in them”; do you use “shone” for this meaning too?

          1. Jan 0 Silver badge

            Re: Worse than the use of “shined” in the subheading?

            Eh, what? Polishing shoes is so nineteen fifties'. Nowadays we might wash them.

            1. Irony Deficient

              Re: Worse than the use of “shined” in the subheading?

              If you find the example of shoes to be outdated, feel free to substitute a more suitable noun of your choice. Do you use “shone” rather than “shined” for the verb’s causative meaning?

      2. stiine Silver badge

        What do you call a necktie? A chinnie?

        1. Irony Deficient

          What do you call a necktie?

          I’d imagine that “tie” is a popular term throughout the anglosphere.

        2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Happy

          Just a tie. Context is everything.

          1. ThatOne Silver badge
            Devil

            There was a necktie for second place.

            1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
              Pint

              Americanisms

              Perhaps someone should get TPTB to watch Michael McIntyre.

              https://www.facebook.com/JustKiddingComedyIGV/videos/michael-on-the-american-english-language/128387771926793/

        3. iron Silver badge

          Why the redundancy? It is a Tie.

          Do you have ties for other parts of the body? Necktie... Armtie... Ankletie... Cocktie?

          1. Irony Deficient

            Do you have ties for other parts of the body?

            There have been — e.g. the OED states that a knot of hair in a pigtail, and a “kind of low shoe fastened with a tie or lace”, were called “ties”. If you include non-human bodies, “the locking together of dog and bitch during copulation” is also called a “tie”.

            “Tie” used to be a categorical term, including neckties, bowties, and cravats. The “knot of hair” meaning is the oldest of the meanings listed here.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    During meetings, I have hello.jpg on my other monitor

  9. steviebuk Silver badge

    Sounds

    bollocks to me. I'm far enough away from the screen when on a Teams call this would never happen. Not only that, the inbuilt camera isn't even HD so its never going to happen. Its not like in the Alan Partridge movie when she wonders into his office and you can see in his glasses he's watching porn. Maybe thats where they got the idea.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Ha!

    I wear glasses because I'm farsighted and I take them off to deal with Zoom (or ElReg). I guess it's my far sighted security protocols.

  11. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

    Easy solution: Don't look into the camera!

    E.g. let it film you from a 30°, or bigger, angle to the side.

    If you put the camera directly above the screen you are facing the issue occurs. But if you put the camera, for example, on your second monitor on the right, but look into your main monitor there is not much of a problem. Same for the Laptop: If you use that camera fine, but look mainly at your external screen - which should not be right above the camera, of course.

  12. chivo243 Silver badge
    Coat

    Call me crazy

    But here in France, they are lunettes!

  13. AVR
    Boffin

    Spooky

    Blurring the area around the eyes seems likely to enter the uncanny valley quite nicely. Not that I'm convinced that the 'people' opposite me in a Zoom call are necessarily alive.

  14. Frank Bitterlich

    Who cares about the screen...

    ... I'd like to know whether you can see what the glass-bearer is typing on their keyboard. Should be possible with right angle and/or curvature of the glasses, right?

  15. ChadF

    You're Fired!

    McFly! I was monitoring your screen activity during that video call!

  16. Grogan Silver badge

    The media cartels will be lobbying to put a stop to video conferencing now, because it can be used to share video. I can watch a movie and you can watch it from the reflection in my nerd glasses... LOL!

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