back to article Chinese researchers make car glide 35mm above ground in maglev test

Chinese researchers levitated a 2.8-ton car 35 millimeters off the ground on a highway in east China’s Jiangsu province, state-sponsored media said over the weekend. The feat was accomplished by modifying an off-the-shelf car with a permanent magnet array and installing a corresponding conductor rail on 7.8km of road, thus …

  1. KittenHuffer Silver badge

    The future has arrived ... at last ... maybe!

    Does this count as a flying car?!?

    They've been promising me one of those for most of my life!

    1. chivo243 Silver badge
      Go

      Re: The future has arrived ... at last ... maybe!

      And our personal JetPak!

      1. NoneSuch Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: The future has arrived ... at last ... maybe!

        Where's my hoverboar- Oh...

  2. steviebuk Silver badge

    Cough

    coughbullshitcough

    Nothing can be believed that comes out of China as "research". Not only that but they banned Twitter so why is that guy on Twitter. The CCP is full of double standards. Ban Tweet for its own people who seek the truth, but exploit western social media for their own bullshit propoganda.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cough

      Most of what comes out of the CCP is indeed bullshit, but I believe this since there's actually nothing really new here over any existing decades-old maglev system, and it's entirely impractical for any realistic use-case.

      They just bolted some magnets on the bottom of a car and embedded a very wide corresponding rail in a test track. This is the kind of thing I'd expect from YouTube tinkerers in their garages. Do you remember all the levitating "hover board" videos we were subjected to seven years ago, in celebration of Marty McFly's visit to the future? Some of those were more advanced than this!

      But yeah, this is just a PR/propaganda project to make CCP China look all sciency and technologically advanced - so long as you don't think too much about it (which most people don't).

      1. Evil Auditor Silver badge

        Re: Cough

        ...this is just a PR/propaganda project to make CCP China look all sciency and technologically advanced...

        If the great leader/party asks for a hover car, it gets a hover car.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Cough

          Ok. So you do so not want to believe. That’s ok.

          But I have to wonder why God invented the ostrich when there are so many humans who exhibit the same trait…

          1. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: Cough

            But I have to wonder why God invented the ostrich when there are so many humans who exhibit the same trait…

            Yes, don’t forget to include all the people that believe “God” invented anything in that many.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Holmes

        Re: Cough

        I don't see this as propaganda as much as an undergraduate student project which is why the "announcement" was on Twitter.

        I also think you need to distinguish between Chinese political bullshit (which approaches 100%) and their science.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Cough

          Good point. The project itself was probably a fun idea by a bunch of students.

          However, Twitter is banned and blocked in China. You cannot access it without a VPN. VPNs are also banned in China, with punishments including jail time. Thus, the only people in China who post to Twitter are 1) dissidents; or 2) government propagandists.

          So we're only talking about this because it was seen as useful propaganda to push the CCP agenda of showing China to be technologically advanced.

      3. ITMA Silver badge

        Re: Cough

        Just watch.... Today it will be a car, next week it will have morphed into a military grade rail gun.

      4. gandalfcn Silver badge

        Re: Cough

        "so long as you don't think too much about it (which most people don't)." Pure goldy.

    2. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

      Re: Cough

      Bellend. Odds on the kit you used to post that comment was made in China. You may not like their politics - I don’t either. But they are still a technology superpower.

    3. gandalfcn Silver badge

      Re: Cough

      MAGA Donald who loves the PRC will be proud if you.

      1. gandalfcn Silver badge

        Re: Cough

        MAGA Donald who buys from the PRC, including his MAGA kit

  3. MiguelC Silver badge
    Happy

    Bumby rides ahead

    From the Twitter video, it promises a really bumpy ride, and the car also swayed wildly from side to side. I'm sure if that's the promo video, things were a lot worse in other tests.

    It can only get better from that, then

    1. james 68

      Re: Bumby rides ahead

      Look at the last section of the video, the car is sliding diagonally off the rail to the left by a large margin. I'm guessing that the clip stops at that point to hide the resulting crash/rollover.

      1. ThatOne Silver badge

        Re: Bumby rides ahead

        Not surprising, if you remove all friction your car will indeed be pushed around by the slightest breeze! And there is little you can do about it besides putting said car on a rail, turning it into a train...

        Without this it's like driving on exceptionally slippery ice, and while you can go quite fast with little energy consumption, you'll probably need a huge distance to slow down and turn. Not what one usually needs when driving in the streets... Which is why maglev is fine for trains, which are in total control of their environment and trajectory, but can't possibly work for cars which need to improvise a lot.

        Also think about the investment/energy required to lay tracks on all (or even just the main) roads. Even if you only equip long distance highways (where it would make a little more sense), it would cost billions, and few would ever use it given the price premium of a maglev-capable car.

        1. druck Silver badge

          Re: Bumby rides ahead

          Plus it can't do corners, as it fly straight off at the first bend, unless you bank all the corners. It the aim is for speeds of 143mph, that's going to be almost vertical banking like old racing tracks, such as Brooklands or Monza.

      2. Snapper

        Re: Bumby rides ahead

        Perhaps a large bit of black plastic fitting into a slot in the road would help guide it!

        I have an idea about a hand-held speed controller if anyone is interested, although I haven't quite figured out reverse yet.

        1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: Bumby rides ahead

          So you had a Matchbox Motorway as a kid too.

          As for handheld controller, flip the polarity of the electron flow.

          https://www.diychatroom.com/attachments/switch-motor-jpg.91618/

          1. Sixtiesplastictrektableware

            Re: Bumby rides ahead

            Jeez, you reminded me of my old AFX racing set.

            This thing is really not much different than that.

            Meaning that even if you had a guide pin, some idiot like me would still flip it around corners.

            Neat!

          2. Aussie Doc
            Black Helicopters

            Re: Bumby rides ahead

            I used to have a neat Scalextric setup in my upstairs bedroom when I were a young'un.

            Used to enjoy playing with it when I could.

            Unfortunately because it used to cause such interference with the downstairs telly, I could only do it when there was nobody else home.

            So basically twice a year :-(

            Not as fast as a chopper --->

  4. Andy The Hat Silver badge

    "Saving energy"?

    I thought one of the problems was the huge amount of power required to drive the coils on a maglev? Or am I thinking of a rail-gun? :-)

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Maglev can be very efficient because you have much less wear and tear. The magnets need to be strong but we're not talking CERN or anything. Drive train efficiency is fantastic because there are no moving parts.

      1. imanidiot Silver badge

        You're still wasting energy just keeping several dozen tons of train in the air just to reduce friction by a marginal amount (steel wheels on steel track are very low friction already). Maglev gains basically nothing over just laying high speed rail track. Cost per mile for the track and infrastructure is about the same but the running costs is actually lower.

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Done correctly, energy is used mainly to lift the vehicle rather than keep it floating. I certainly agree it's not really suitable for cars - apart from the problems of laying the track, you've got all the as yet unsolved problems of having multiple vehicles on the same section of track.

          Nevertheless, I'd expect the research to be useful in multiple ways.

      2. ThatOne Silver badge

        > Maglev can be very efficient because you have much less wear and tear.

        Still, wear and tear isn't the biggest expenditure on my car, even at it's ripe age of 15 years. It's not even in the top 5.

        The problem with laying tracks under every road (or even just highways) is that it requires a truly colossal investment, something no nation could afford. And if you add the maglev parts to a standard car's price it becomes prohibitively priced. Not to mention much less attractive to use than a normal one, due to the additional space occupied and the strong magnets' effects on the passengers' belongings...

        It's a lose-lose situation, the institutions managing the infrastructure lose, the end users lose, and inordinate amounts of energy are wasted just so a handful of wealthy technology fans can die in very spectacular accidents due to a light breeze...

    2. Vikingforties
      Coat

      Ah but Solar Roadways(TM) could supply the power for the coils. Genius idea, because the cars float, they don't mash the solar panels in the roadways. Someone fetch me the back of an envelope!

    3. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Maglev uses very little energy on the hover - the Shanghai maglev only uses 15kW for that part

      On the other hand it draws 8MW punching a train sized hole in the air at 263mph - and there were a LOT of noise complaints - so many that they had to dial the speed back and it only runs full tilt on the weekday afternoon runs from 2-4pm

      There's a reason vactrains (hyperloop) keep getting attention. The engineering for a steel tube able to withstand 1atm is pretty easy/cheap and even if you only reduce to 100 pascals (not difficult with almost any pump) you'll drop the power requirement dramatically. A leak will act as a fairly dramatic airbrake without pancaking the passengers

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    2.8 tonne - of magnets?

    For a 2.8 tonne car I was expecting some sort of presidential limo! If you have to stuff a plain saloon car with that much weight in magnets, where is everyone going to sit? I think the road (rail?) holding might bear some improvement for such a weight moving at any speed, too. On the other hand it seems churlish to criticize when it's clearly a demo, and we've got no dogs in this race.

    1. Zimmer
      Coat

      No Dogs in this race

      We did have dogs in this race. I remember Linear motors demonstrated on Tomorrow's World in the late '60s/70s and Birmingham had a train running to the airport between @1985 and 1995..

      Looks like the it all went to the dogs, though..... as usual..

      >>>>> it's the flying jacket, with the Nedym..neodimi...neodimy..... magnets in the pocket..

      1. MrXonTR

        My favourite 'tube

        Professor Eric Laithwaite: Magnetic River 1975

        https://youtu.be/OI_HFnNTfyU

        1. TimMaher Silver badge
          Windows

          Fahrenheit 451.

          Montag arrives home.

        2. LybsterRoy Silver badge

          Re: My favourite 'tube

          Fabulous link - where can I buy one - I could spend hours watching that sheet of aluminium going to and fro

        3. Aussie Doc

          Re: My favourite 'tube

          Had to give a real belly laugh right at the end with the 'passenger carrying vehicle'.

          "...and Barry, if you'll start this one, I'll have to go and catch it because this is rather expensive".

      2. myhandler

        Re: No Dogs in this race

        I remember a boy at school making one for some A level. I saw it working, track was only about 30 feet and 'train' was maybe 18" long. As you can tell it was long time ago - pre-metrication. Yes it was a school with exceptional facilites and teachers but I wonder what the guy did, spend 50 years watching as no one got it to the mass market?

    2. ThatOne Silver badge

      Re: 2.8 tonne - of magnets?

      > For a 2.8 tonne car I was expecting some sort of presidential limo!

      2800 kg is quite normal for a bigger family car. Its pretty much the mass of my (smallish) SUV, IIRC.

      You're right about the space problems though, this should take quite some user space, especially given the car is already carrying its own batteries and there is no free unused space left.

      Also make sure you carry no spinning rust hard drives! I don't think the magnetic field will be strong enough to do physical damage, but stuff you carry might indeed be "adversely affected".

      1. captain veg Silver badge

        Re: 2.8 tonne - of magnets?

        > 2800 kg is quite normal for a bigger family car

        Is it?

        That over four times the weight of a BMC Mini. OK, not much passive safety kit there, but a heavy lump of cast iron for an engine.

        It's almost three times as much as my nearly-new Renault Twingo, which has a full complement of NCAP stars.

        There's no reason for a car of any size to exceed two tons. Even that's porky.

        -A.

        1. Gotno iShit Wantno iShit

          Re: 2.8 tonne - of magnets?

          That over four times the weight of a BMC Mini.

          Yep, and less than double the weight of a BINI. 50% more than a classic Range Rover or about the same as a new Range Rover. 6x a classic Fiat 500 or 3x a modern one. Way over double a Mk I Land Rover defender with a chassis like the Forth bridge or about the same as a new LR Defender.

          There's no reason for a car of any size to exceed two tons. Even that's porky.

          Modern cars are fat, bloated monstrosities.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: 2.8 tonne - of magnets?

          > 2800 kg is quite normal for a bigger family car

          In America.

          1. ThatOne Silver badge

            Re: 2.8 tonne - of magnets?

            No, I think that's everywhere, since most models are sold worldwide.

            As "Gotno iShit Wantno iShit" said, modern cars are heavy, much heavier than the older ones. I don't know why, but each of my successive cars over the years has always been half a ton heavier than the one it replaced.

  6. John 110

    Stopping

    I'd like to see the braking distance on one of these...

    1. Evil Auditor Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Stopping

      Hmm, rotate it 90 degrees* and switch the magnets off. What could go wrong?

      * watching the video, it seems rather a challenge to keep it straight anyway

  7. Fonant
    Thumb Up

    You could perhaps connect several elongated cars together, to carry many hundreds of passengers at the same time. With centralised control for safety, with some form of electronic signalling system.

    For a cheaper version, replace the maglev with steel wheels on a smooth steel rail, one on each side of the vehicle.

    1. Red Ted
      Go

      For a cheaper version, replace the maglev with steel wheels on a smooth steel rail, one on each side of the vehicle.

      Indeed, with the advantage that you then maintain compatibility with the existing rail infrastructure, so you can then run services quickly on the high speed line and slower on the older lines as direct services, rather than forcing people to change trains.

      Just for the record the fastest conventional train is a test train on the then new LGV Est at 574.8 km/h (357.2 mph).

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Yes, but that started suffering hunting oscillation (coning) and effectively destroyed both the pantographs and overhead wires in the process of setting that record

        The practical limit of 350km/h (China) is based on trackside noise. They've found that even with maglev it's simply TOO DAMNED LOUD if you go fast that close to the ground

        The Japanese maglev experiment has the same problem. Putting it in a trench hasn't really helped

        To go faster, the track will need to be enclosed and evacuated

  8. Sgt_Oddball
    Holmes

    Could we not just....

    Not bother with the whole elevation/floating thing and instead focus on using maglev as a dragger? Leave the wheels alone and focus on just having the magnets drag the cars along?

    Completely random thought and might not work but it feels like an easier problem to solve first.

    1. Andy The Hat Silver badge

      Re: Could we not just....

      The whole point is getting rid of the friction contact - monorails with small guide wheels were the traditional method of ensuring things followed a track but supercooled superconductors and oodles of refrigeration power can circumvent that design requirement as the system is self guiding. One reason why room temp superconductors may be a holy grail of transport technology.

      1. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

        Re: Could we not just....

        Maybe add a second air chamber to car tires that pushes out a rigid ridge. Add air while cruising, remove it for traction. Some bike tires have this rigid ridge but it's a hassle because the whole tire's pressure needs changing to raise or lower it.

      2. Ian Johnston Silver badge

        Re: Could we not just....

        One reason why room temp superconductors may be a holy grail of transport technology.

        Outside the fevered imaginations of second rate sci fi writers, there is no reason to believe that these will ever exist. Even High-Tc materials are almost always used in LHe rather than LN2 because critical currents decrease linearly from 0K to critical temperature. In other words, something which superconducts up to 80K will carry about 25 time the current in LHe that it will in LN2.

        To get a useful room temperature superconductor you would need a critical temperature of at least 500K and ideally 1000K. Ain't gonna happen.

        1. captain veg Silver badge

          Re: Room temp superconductors

          Also it's very inconvenient to have to build rooms to keep all the track inside.

          -A.

        2. Sixtiesplastictrektableware

          Re: Could we not just....

          As an amateur sometimes a writer that has done just that, I resemble that remark.

          However, what about meta materials?

          The thing I used in my story was graphene (I think).

          Supposed to be a superconductor (I thought).

          Anyroad, never underestimate somebody with wild eyes wearing a lab coat.

  9. Death Boffin
    Joke

    35mm? Film at 11?

  10. ChrisC Silver badge

    My first thought on watching that video was "after much effort, Chinese researchers have managed to design a car with even worse porpoising behaviour than a 2022-spec F1 car".

    My second thought was - why...

  11. Paul Herber Silver badge
    Coat

    I'd like to see a maglev train run from pole-to-pole.

    1. David 132 Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      What a repulsive idea.

      1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
        Pint

        I'm attracted to the idea.

    2. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
      Pint

      Dipolar Express!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I Gauss that could work...

  12. Robert Helpmann??
    FAIL

    Fail open? More like open fall!

    The Red Rail sees the train hover 30 feet above the ground with the track positioned above the vehicle.

    I would hope that there are safety systems in place to prevent the cars from falling in the event of some sort of issue with the power or similar, but it seems that positioning the rail above the cars in a maglev system starts things off on the wrong foot. At best, it sounds needlessly complicated...

    I did a couple of quick searches and found out this is being implemented in the north of China. They can have pretty strong earthquakes there. In the event of a collapse of this sort of system, the rail and accompanying support structure will land on the passengers, not the other way around. Not an ideal outcome.

    1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

      Re: Fail open? More like open fall!

      It just an underslung monorail like the Wuppertal Schwebebahn – but with magnets! No danger of falling as the maglev system is contained in a conduit with just a slot for the connection to the car. There's probably wheels in there too, for low speed operation. I doubt the speed really justifies the expense of a maglev system but I suppose at least it will be quiet.

      I suspect in the case of an earthquake it would be one of the safer places to be. At least it's should be properly engineered. There are plenty of buildings in China which aren't exactly built to modern safety standards.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fail open? More like open fall!

      Not to worry when we've got the Traceys and their Thunderbirds machines to save everyone...

      FAB

  13. Number6

    The Shanghai Maglev is fun, I've used it a few times now. It's cheaper than a taxi from the airport into the city and a lot less scary. It finishes up at a Shanghai Metro station so if you plan in advance you can use that to continue your journey.

    As for the car, the way to do that is to have a contoured field with two lines of magnets, one down each side, so there's enough field in the centre and moving to either side is a bit like climbing a hill, so the car will naturally stay in the magnetic depression.

    1. ChrisC Silver badge

      "and a lot less scary."

      Having experienced the delights of taxi rides between Pudong and downtown a few times now, I'm not sure there are many things on this earth that are more scary than Shanghai traffic.

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        If you can't afford the maglev, then there's the Metro line

        It's pretty good and it's MUCH faster than any taxi

  14. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
    Pint

    Nice Idea - Now Add a In-Flight Tea Service

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UgviscBrrI

  15. arachnoid2

    Brake,Brake,BRAKE!

    Good luck in getting it to stop in mid air

    1. DJO Silver badge

      Re: Brake,Brake,BRAKE!

      I thought that but it should be possible to do something using eddy currents to arrest motion. I doubt if it would be as rapid a stop as wheels and brakes though.

  16. crayon

    "The Red Rail sees the train hover 30 feet above the ground with the track positioned above the vehicle."

    The linked to article says 'Dubbed "Rainbow," the maglev line that is about 800 meters long was built in Xingguo County, east China's Jiangxi Province.' There is no mention of "Red Rail" anywhere in that article.

  17. Dizzy Dwarf

    That's just high tech aquaplaning

    Well done.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Plane Sailing

    What could go wong?

  19. SideshowMark

    Magnets

    Always with the magnets.

  20. Lopan

    Slot cars are back.

  21. CrackedNoggin Bronze badge

    I rode the Shanghai maglev once - it isn't the quickest way to get to the airport because of connection issues (it's fastest just to stay on the subway that you need to take to get to the maglev station anyway), and there was nobody else in the front car on the train. I was surprised it was so old, the seats and curtains faded unevenly from sunlight. Max speed limited to 300 km/h, although a web search is packed with results claiming the full 480 km/h. It's kinda cool that they are actually running it though it feels more like a quaint working relic than bleeding edge tech.

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