back to article UK's NHS goes to market for $2b HR and payroll system

The UK's National Health Service (NHS) is in the market for a company to manage HR and a new electronic staff records system as part of a procurement worth up to £1.7 billion ($2 billion). One of the world's largest employers, the NHS pays around 1.8 million staff via its current Oracle E-business Suite-based HR and payroll …

  1. hoola Silver badge

    £1.7 Billion

    Just how can an HR & Payroll system cost this much.

    I know they are a large organisation with a huge amount of complexity but this just looks to be crazy. It is back-office stuff.

    1. UCAP Silver badge

      Re: £1.7 Billion

      Here's your answer: "... a company to manage HR and a new electronic staff records system as part of a procurement worth up to £1.7 billion ..." (my emphasis). In other words, a chunk of the money will go towards running the existing system, and another chunk will go towards developing a replacement system and (assumption, but probably a safe one) transferring the data, and another chunk will go towards running the new system.

      I have not read the procurement documentation, but I would guess that there is additional work specified to be done. This sounds like a framework contract to me.

      1. hoola Silver badge

        Re: £1.7 Billion

        Okay, some more information, it is until 2032 but is an estimated value.

        https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/023129-2022

        These never go down but overruns are the norm. However you look at it, the figure is still quite large and it is a single bundle.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: £1.7 Billion

          >However you look at it, the figure is still quite large and it is a single bundle.

          How do you unbundle a 7 year service contract? You can't exactly go out to competitive tender every year...

    2. MrMerrymaker

      Re: £1.7 Billion

      $2bn you mean. As on the headline.

      1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

        Re: £1.7 Billion

        Maybe the $300 million is planned for the managers bonus?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: £1.7 Billion

      It’s worse than that… as an ESR user…. . ESR is one of the (few) common core systems in use a across NHS England.

      1. NeilPost

        Re: £1.7 Billion

        It’s far-far worse than that… as an ESR user…. . ESR is one of the (few) common core systems in use a across the NHS (unsure about Scotland) and partners like St John Ambulance.

        My trust half uses it … only as a source for core NHS Heath Education England and the ‘e-Learning for health’ and uses a hodge-podge of other things inc Moodle for ‘local trust training’. Every trust feels the need to waste money putting it’s local trust spin on things. In my area there are about 7 overlapping trusts, before you even talk about General Practice.

        Lots of certificates needing uploaded/sent, bad data etc. Lots of overlapping/repeated training across different courses.

        Looking at ESR right now - I have ‘no training records exist’, that’s managed elsewhere. Some in developme.plus, some in Moodle.

        Just really used for Payroll.

        It’s already in meltdown.

  2. MrMerrymaker

    Why the dollar amount?

    $ why? The NHS is British as is this site

    1. Muscleguy

      Re: Why the dollar amount?

      Except there is no such thing as the UK NHS. We have and have always had a separate one up here in Scotland. It differs considerably from the English one. For a start there is no Internal Market up here. Trusts cooperate and share best practice developments instead of competing. There is no privatisation up here either. The incoming SNP govt in 2007 rolled back the limited amount which had happened.

      Parking is free in our hospitals as well. Everywhere after the last private holdouts such as NCP here in Dundee were bought out. The barriers are up, the pay machines have “not in service” notices on them. You are not issued with a ticket on entry. There is nothing else there.

      1. MrMerrymaker

        Re: Why the dollar amount?

        Not really an answer is it mate.

        I used to work in the NHS myself but thanks for the lecture.

        Anyway, NHS contracts were always, to my knowledge, in sterling, not dollars

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sounds like a horror project

    Nurse!

    1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Sounds like a horror project

      No doubt the project will soon get constipated and require the taxpayer to bend over for a gloved finger and cough up more £££

      https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/25/you_and_it_outsourcing/

      Recruitment? Will this lot make the shortlist...

      https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/24/ministry_of_defence/

  4. Handlebars

    You won't get away from Oracle that easily since they bought Cerner.

  5. VoiceOfTruth Silver badge

    Who created this monster?

    -> an executive non-departmental public body of the Department of Health and Social Care

    That's some top level civil service buffoonery.

    -> The contract is also an HR outsourcing deal. It addresses talent acquisition,

    They could always give it straight to Capita, based on its glowing success for the army.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who created this monster?

      Crapita have been sniffing round the NHS for years, they done such an awful job with the Army they are bound to get the contract haaa-haaa

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Who created this monster?

        Not a chance, I hope. Been there; replaced them with another outsourcer; now getting rid of THEM and taking most of what was outsourced back in-house.

        1. Woodnag

          Re: Who created this monster?

          Fujitsu then? After their great work with the GPO...

          Or Palantir, since they have their tentacles in the NHS patient DB already?

          1. EnviableOne

            Re: Who created this monster?

            NHS could do with a system like Horizon, that invents money from nowhere

    2. NeilPost

      Re: Who created this monster?

      The DHSC was formed in 2018 by the latest round of government meddling/restructuring, prior to that it was just the Dept for Health - which had lots of Tory and Labour government meddling/restructuring- which was itself formed in 1988 when the Tories dissolved the DHSS (Department for Health and Social Security), formed in 1968 when the government of the day meddled/restructured in dissolving the then Ministry Health and adding Social Security:

      … seeing any common issues here … like perpetual government meddling….

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_Health_and_Social_Care

  6. navarac Bronze badge

    Fingers Crossed

    UK governmental departments have a bad track record when it comes to IT. An awful lot of money has been wasted in the past, with systems being abandoned. I just hope this proves to turn out better.

  7. Phil Kingston

    Wonder if the track & trace app money would have been better spent here.

    1. EnviableOne

      at least Dame Dido of Can't Talk isn't in charge of this one.

  8. PeterM42
    Facepalm

    Another IT and Financial.......

    .........DISASTER on it's way.

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