Excel @ mentions approach general availability on the desktop Microsoft's Excel is to continue its march to be the coolest software kid on the block as @ mentions move closer to general availability for the desktop version. It has been a while coming (the ability to create, assign and track tasks in a workbook was added to the Microsoft 365 roadmap in January 2021) but by October, the …
Quite. What does "assigning of tasks using the @ mention" actually mean? Are people using excel as a task tracking system? Is this a task tracking system for people who's tasks involve excel? Is this an IM client?
I generally thing that if you are using excel for anything that matters you are using the wrong tool, but I am quite sure that using it as a task tracker is wrong.
Excel is a programming language with persistent storage and a rich UI. Exactly what FORTRAN and COBOL were, back in the day. c represented a historic split: a programming language of only 32 keywords, with no storage or UI (those provided through OS library). It was an active area of discussion at the time, but, like /* block comments :*/, the biggest advantage of the c approach was that it was different, //and suitable for situations where FORTRAN and COBOL were not.
Even 35 years ago, programming languages had not kept up with advances in storage and UI. The current equivalent of FORTRAN or COBOL is javascript + database server + web server + browser. Which is suitable for the vast majority of programming tasks, but still leaves cases where a modern programming environment of "language (including persistent storage and rich UI)" is most suitable.
> c represented a historic split: a programming language of only 32 keywords
Well, that's only 32 more reserved keywords than Lisp, the second oldest computer programming language after Fortran, and the first functional one, and the first to propose a metacircular evaluator.
While C was significant in terms of being able to write portably across architectures, the language itself is hardly revolutionary (nor was it designed to be)
Indeed.
I once (foolishly) agreed to provide on-call network support for an accounting firm.
I asked if there was a map of the large open-plan office, so I might know where "jenny's desk" was when told she couldn't log on.
I was given an Excel file. It had a crude plan "drawn" using ascii characters.
I know a guy who builds sheds, pump houses, small cabins and the like for a living. He is quite good at it, and is the go-to guy for those of us in the know around these here parts. He does all his drawing in Excel ... I've tried to sell him on a CAD program (any CAD program!), but he wants nothing to do with it. Claims CAD just makes life difficult.
exactly,
Excel has grown from competent spreadsheet to can do anything if tortured enough software. After V5 I think it became a desktop publishing tool more than a spreadsheet.. Even Office Libre is following (slowly) this trend. I migrated to Kingsoft to get work done
Quote: "...although you need to be signed into Outlook for it to work..."
Yup.....the Redmond STASI hard at work here: you need:
- Windows (likely v7 or above)
- Excel (latest version, of course)
- A Teams contract
- Outlook
.....and the STASI are all set to know EXACTLY what you and your buddies are up to!!
You, dear reader, will not be surprised that the AC author of this comment has NONE of the required software or licences!
Excel is possibly the best single work of software in the world. It is perfect for its job, which is to present information to people.
Unfortunately it's so good that people can't resist using it to analyse, store, exchange and track information, as well. Big mistake. This development is a sad sign of Microsoft actively encouraging this regrettable trend.
Not just scrolling ... Consider that I (and you!) can create documents and spreadsheets and databases to run a business using Wordstar and Lotus and dBase on DOS 3.3 easier and quite a bit faster than with more modern Office 355 on Win11, or whatever it is that Redmond is pushing these days.
Try it, sabtoni. Really. It's easy enough to check out for yourself.
Bring a few friends of various ages/abilities into the party. Report back.
I'm as up to date as anybody with modern windows shovelware ... I have to be, in order to sell corporate types on the benefits of FOSS solutions. Can't argue against something unless you know the subject well. To be perfectly honest, you CAN (as can be seen in these pages daily), but not with any degree of sincerity.
I see the disdain for Excel here so often. So, I ask again, what are the alternatives? (Genuinely, I'd like to know)
There's a lot of IT experts commenting here, and I'm sure many of you could take a big Excel model and develop it into a proper structured database, with a nice shiny front-end and all the bells and whistles etc. But what then?
The point is that this is your jobs, and your skills. The typical Excel user is not usually an IT expert, but has other skills in other disciplines, and is merely using Excel as the easiest tool to get done what they need to do. It takes a big step in needs and complexity before any kind of budget is ever made for taking something out of Excel and moving it into 'IT world', where people with specialist IT skills take over development.
Unless I'm blatantly unaware of something obvious, there's simply nothing else that's anything like as ubiquitous available in this gap. Is there a database and frontend development software package that has a nice GUI, is accessible to non IT folk, and at the same time meets the approval of the IT specialists? Until there is, every business is going to have 1000's of mission critical excel workbooks kicking around.
PS. I know Power BI covers some of this, but it's really just a fancy dashboard, and doesn't overlap with most of what Excel can do with data.
You don't need to have a handy alternative to know that a tool is being used in the wrong roll.
Excel is fine as a spreadsheet. Nobody is arguing otherwise. The issue is that it has had so much non-spreadheet crap grafted onto it that it is in danger of becoming so huge, bloated and unwieldy that it is even unfit for the Corporate World's silly-ass games. Some would say it has already reached that point.
@Jake
Quote: "Excel is fine as a spreadsheet"
True. But the problem is the way it is being used:
(1) Everyone builds their own separate spreadsheet
(2) Almost no one knows anything about "data design" -- you know, third normal form, and all that
(3) Everyone wants to share
(4) Usually the sharer and the sharee have DIFFERENT views of the data, and different requirements
(5) ......so more spreadsheets (and less clarity). Rinse and repeat at item #1!!
When I worked in a very large corporate HQ, I did a lot of process improvement projects. Lots of spreadsheets going from one department to other departments. Very common comments during process interviews with the recipients of spreadsheets:
(6) Yes....we get the spreadsheet every week, and then spend a day restructuring it (see item #2)
(7) Yes...we get the spreadsheet every week. It's useless....we throw it away (see item #4)
So....the problem IS NOT Excel itself. The problem is the complete LACK of communication about process...plus all the other points noted above.
P.S.......And all that before we start discussing VBA!!! Thanks for reading this far!!!
> what are the alternatives?
I just posted above, but I'll repeat, keeping in mind that what works for me may or may not work for you.
What most people seem to use excel for¹ I tend to do in either R or Scheme. That way I can structure and document things better. Note that I tend to use the /input /scripts /output pipeline model, where the input data is usually immutable (because traceability).
Juniper books also looks interesting but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.
¹ aside from pasting the scan of the word document they just printed before email the lot to you as an attachment, that is.
> The typical Excel user is not usually an IT expert, but has other skills in other disciplines
The best idea I've had in many years was when I decided to have *all* of my hires, regardless of position (engineering, software development, administration) or assumed ability, take a computer literacy test (in French, whether you can speak the language or not) very early on in their selection process.
We also do continuous training to develop everyone's IT skills. For instance after a few months, everyone is at least able to read scripts, search for information online and offline and be able to identify generic skills, such as using Markdown across different systems and commit stuff to git (for instance, quality records).
Don't know if it's sad or amusing, or just a reflection of the market, but developers tend to fare *the worst* on those literacy tests.
PS: pix.fr
To: @world+dog
From: do-not-reply
Subject: Let us count the ways
* @copy/paste
* @drag/fill
* MS bug interprets arcane key combination as auto-convert range to @formula()
* @macro?
Any one of these is perfect for home defense! Er, ... taking down a messaging system!
Followed by the usual questions: How many settings need to be changed to actually turn this off? Why did the latest update turn it back on? Etc...
Roll-up ladies, gentlemen and hipsters. Get you bets in on Excel security lottery.
Evens: You will be able to get a copy of anyone else's spreadsheet by @ and request-reply
2:1 You will be able to run arbitrary macros on the recipient's Excel
4:1 You will be able to send arbitrary binary payloads AND run arbitrary macros on the recipient's Excel
10:1 If you are using Edge it will be able to get your browsing history, If you use Firefox it will kill your dog.
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