back to article Mars Express orbiter to get code update after 19 years

The software on ESA's Mars Express spacecraft is to be upgraded after nearly two decades, giving the orbiter capabilities to hunt for water beneath the planet and study its larger moon, Phobos. Mars Express was launched on June 2, 2003, and was initially made up of two components: the Mars Express Orbiter and the Beagle 2 …

  1. UCAP Silver badge
    Pint

    It never ceases to amaze me ...

    ... how they are able to design and build a piece of equipment capable of being operated millions of miles away from home for decades at a time. The Voyagers are an extreme example of this, but things like Mars Express are now considered routine, and the surprise would have been if it had failed in the last 19 years.

    Raising my glass to the spacecraft designers and builders (itself a highly skilled job) ====>

    1. tip pc Silver badge
      Go

      Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

      That’s how stuff used to be built, built to last.

      Not sure newer stuff is the same especially once the bean counters realise they’ve been duped into funding extended missions that where meant to last just a few days or years and are still funding them decades later.

      To the builders of these things get to charge maintenance fees / extended warranties until the things give up?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

        I remember 20 years ago people moaning how stuff used to be built to last.

        1. KittenHuffer Silver badge

          Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

          I did upvote you, cos I remember those times as well.

          The problem is that I remember that the evidence brought out to support that argument was normally along the lines of "Just look at steam engines! Still around after more than 100 years!"

          But there was no consideration that the 90% of steam engines that were not built to last are long gone, and that even those that remain represent a small fraction of a percent of the total of that make/model that were built. Statistically there is no evidence that they were built to last any better than modern cars. About the only advantage they have is bulk, in that they take longer to rust away due to the mass of metal involved.

          In 100 years, I'm sure there will still be a number of antique petrol powered cars around, and people will be saying that the newer battery/fusion/flatulence powered models just aren't built to last!

          1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

            Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

            Just look at steam engines! Still around after more than 100 years!

            My issue with using steam engines as an example is that they have regular maintenance. The ones that still exist have had repeated overhauls (I wonder how much of these "old" engines are the original parts - Theseus' ship anyone?)

            The long lived spacecrafts are far more impressive, as other than some software updates, the hardware hasn't changed since it left the factory.

            1. hammarbtyp

              Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

              steam engines used to break continually, and sometimes catastrophically. The big weak point was the boiler, which consisted on many metres of copper pipes. Add high pressure steam, and a single failure could pretty well destroy the engine. Of course there was no easy way to inspect them.

              Steam enthusiasts tend to ignore that Steam engines are difficult to operate and maintain, and when they go, they go with a bang, so require constant matainence

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

                "Add high pressure steam, and a single failure could pretty well destroy the engine. Of course there was no easy way to inspect them."

                Even more amazing, steam engines were around for something like 150 years before pressure gauges were available.

                1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

                  Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

                  But for the first 100 years of that, steam engines were condensing and worked at (or below) atmospheric pressure. A vacuum gauge would have been more useful.

          2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

            "In 100 years, I'm sure there will still be a number of antique petrol powered cars around,"

            Considering how few were made, it's remarkable how many 100+ year old petrol powered are cars are still around and running now. Once, many years ago, I even had a short ride on a steam powered car! And yes, the driver was called an engineer and there was a fireman on the back to stoke the boiler. Not very suitable for a quick trip to shop though. It took over an hour from cold to being ready to run :-)

            1. serverinstallations

              Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

              '...It took over an hour from cold to being ready to run :-)

              So, just like a modern electric car, then...

          3. arachnoid2

            Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

            "The problem is that I remember that the evidence brought out to support that argument was normally along the lines of "Just look at steam engines! Still around after more than 100 years!""

            Far more effort to make things safer to run and operate these days and not much gets past an Elf and Safety person.

        2. hammarbtyp

          Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

          Weird thing is that things today are actually more reliable than in the past. In the 70's it was accepted that things fail and your life revolved around it. Today if things fail it is a major talking point

          The eponymous James Burke said once the lasting legacy of the Apollo space program, was not things like Teflon, better chip etc. These things would of happened anyway. It was that things broke down a bit less often

          1. DougMac

            Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

            In the 70's, you'd be extremely lucky if your car lasted until 100,000 miles. Either the engine blown or being shaken apart/rusted through. Most people replaced cars well under that limit. I remember my dad welding sheet metal on the floor pan of his truck so his foot stopped going through the floor.

            Now-a-days, it is routine to drive cars well past 100,000 miles.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

              My previous car I bought as new and got rid of it after 250,000 miles as the repair costs were going to outway the value of the car by a very large margin. (I was given a "generous" trade-in of £99 for it)

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...more relaible? Really?

            Over the decades I've had 1960's and 1970's washing machines, dryers, fridges, cookers, etc that are always far more reliable than ones bought in the last 20 years. Electric kettles..?

            The old stuff was expensive and built to be easily repaired. The newer stuff, mostly unrepairable or cheaper to replace than try to repair. My last place had a 40 year washing machine and dryer. My (female) friends came over to do their washing because their more modern washing machines and dryers did such a terrible job. And kept breaking down. Mine just chugged on, year after year.

            As for cars. British and American car from the 1970's, utter junk. German and Japanese pretty much indestructible. Ran most of my cars to at least 200K miles. Last (German) car was 20 years old when I bought it. Next one might even be over 30. Because very simple *%*^ electronics and no fancy stuff means very easy (and cheap) to repair. So easy to get to 200K to 250K. Before you need to rebuild. My parents new Japanese car went through two engines and four major repairs in first two years. Purely electronics. No mechanical problems.

        3. Potemkine! Silver badge

          Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

          My bike is 30 years old and still working ^^

          It will probably run till it won't be possible to find gasoline anymore.... I will have to convert it to ethanol.

          1. Gene Cash Silver badge

            Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

            "One must be careful choosing a Japanese bike because if you get it, you'll have it for life. Like herpes." -- RyanF9

            Yeah, my FJR-1300 just turned 15 this past weekend.

        4. stiine Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

          Congratulations, you have discovered a downward trend... Have a drink, it'll help.

      2. Caver_Dave Silver badge

        Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

        "[do] the builders of these things get to charge maintenance fees / extended warranties until the things give up?"

        I've regularly seen Long Term Agreements over 20 years and occassionally over 30 years.

        (I knew someone who 3 years ago was still having 6 monthly practice sessions working on core memories.)

        I've also made sure that where there is on-site support provisions that it specifically states that this does not apply to deployed spacecraft!

        1. Richard 12 Silver badge

          Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

          What about spacecraft that launched but failed to deploy?

          1. EarthDog

            Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

            or blew up on the launch pad

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

        "Not sure newer stuff is the same especially once the bean counters realise they’ve been duped into funding extended missions that where meant to last just a few days or years and are still funding them decades later."

        On the other hand, these things cost millions if not billions to launch and get into their intended location with very high risk of failure. So if you can squeeze extra life out it until the pips squeak, that's got to be a good thing, even from an accountants perspective. Especially if the alternative to 100's of 1000' over an extra 10 years is millions or billions to launch a new, updated replacement :-)

    2. DS999 Silver badge

      Meanwhile

      A smart TV stops receiving updates after a couple years, after which its streaming apps slowly rot due to changes on the server side until they no longer function.

      1. Major

        Re: Meanwhile

        I cannot stand "Smart TV" absolute crap...

        Add a Firestick, AppleTV or any other light computer and BOOM - much smarter IMHO

  2. A Non e-mouse Silver badge
    Joke

    Beagle 2

    I don't think Beagle 2 is "lost": They know exactly where it is. It just kissed the ground a little bit too excitedly.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Beagle 2

      It just kissed the ground a little bit too excitedly.

      Not even that, photos taken from orbit by another NASA Mars orbiter many years later show it on the planetary surface with partially deployed solar panels, which suggests a successful touchdown. Unfortunately the craft's central radio antenna is not uncovered until all solar panels deploy (they unfold from the stored position like a flower's petals) so it was never able to make initial radio contact with the Mars Express orbiter.

      It's possible that it's still sat out there collecting data*, going "Hello? Hello? HELLO? IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE?????

      *Highly unlikely given that its panels were probably covered by Martian dust long ago so won't be providing electrical power

      1. Andy The Hat Silver badge

        Re: Beagle 2

        Not sure why you got a downvote for that ... Beagle was deemed a mission failure but, as it turns out, was only a smidgen from success (if you can actually quantify "successfulness" of a mission). At least it's landing system (that worked) was far less scary than the sky cranes and stuff we had to endure later on!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Beagle 2

      The term you're looking for is "lithobraking" (at least for Earth-related air and spacecraft).

  3. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Astounding

    20 years after launch and they're updating the software with a better version from hundreds of thousands of kilometers away.

    Space engineers are the coolest.

    1. Snapper

      Re: Astounding

      Based on Windows 98.........

      Crikey!

      1. Old Tom

        Re: Astounding

        "using a development environment based on Microsoft Windows 98"

        It's very unlikely that it's the OS on the orbiter.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: Astounding

          Yeah, especially if it still had the 49.7 day run time limit due to the memory leak. It'd not even make it part way to Mars before turning up its toes :-)

      2. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: Astounding

        At that time, I would probably have used NT4 but maybe even Windows 2000 (it was a bit new then, but certainly better than 98 or the abomination of ME)

    2. Potemkine! Silver badge

      Re: Astounding

      Space engineers are good, ok, but when I look at Columbia, Challenger, Mars Climate Orbiter, the first launch of Ariane V and many others, I think there's still a margin of improvement.

      So yes, they are good, but they are no supernatural beings with extraordinary powers. Looking at the money thrown to space programs, all the resources, all the tests, getting results is not unexpected.

      I'm much more impressed by IT engineers, looking at the progress made in the last 40 years in the IT sector, whose evolution is still exponential. If space programs were as efficient, we would already travel to other stars at warp speed.

      1. druck Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Astounding

        You forgot the joke icon again ->

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Best of the best sofware dudes must work for nasa

    Just imagine putting crap like windows 10 on a 20yo spaceship. It will take months pleasing itself rather than the usual day or so we experience with modern hardware and shite software.

  5. Howard Sway Silver badge

    I am not surprised at all that such a mission is still in flight after 19 years

    Neither am I. For something to have removed it from its orbit would have been either extremely bad luck or very worrying.

    In fact, with constant solar power it should keep on going indefinitely. Send enough of these probes out and there might be one of them forlornly sending out tweets millions of years after civilisation has ceased.

    1. Just A Quick Comment
      Mushroom

      Re: I am not surprised at all that such a mission is still in flight after 19 years

      I'm sorry. You think humans have civilisation?

    2. Richard 12 Silver badge
      Terminator

      Re: I am not surprised at all that such a mission is still in flight after 19 years

      Nothing lives forever.

      Solar radiation and cosmic rays regularly rip holes in the hardware. Eventually, the holes get too big in the wrong place and it dies.

      The solar panels slowly degrade as the photons smash the junctions up. Eventually, there's not enough power and it dies.

      Reaction wheel bearings slowly grind into dust. Eventually they sieze up, the spacecraft can no longer aim its instruments or antenna, and it dies.

      Etc...

      1. Surreal Estate

        Re: I am not surprised at all that such a mission is still in flight after 19 years

        Sounds like my cantankerous mortal coil.

  6. Roger Kynaston
    Coat

    isolated network

    Not so much airgapped as vacuum gapped!

    I've got it and am off!

  7. Davegoody

    I will do the software update on-site….

    Gladly claim back the mileage at HMRC rates ……

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I will do the software update on-site….

      Check out Buzz Aldrin's NASA expense report for business travel taken in July of 1969.

    2. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: I will do the software update on-site….

      That budget is a leetle bit small. Not sure it's possible for only £112 million

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Pint

    WFH

    Absolutely a pint for the engineers who designed in all the redundancies to keep spacecraft operating.

    But at least double that for the software boffins who step in when failover becomes fail. Or who see a way to repurpose sensors for other science (as was the case here).

    Ah, hell, just ship a case to NASA.

    1. A Nother Handle
      Headmaster

      Re: Ship a case to NASA

      Why? The ESA did all the work here.

  9. Ace2 Silver badge

    I think it’s cool that they’re discarding data to get more work done. Lots of different ways to put that to use at $JOB, I expect.

    1. stiine Silver badge

      Its a long-standing trade-off. More data for a shorter time period or less data for a longer time period....the one that you choose has to be based on what you are going to do with the data. Or in this case, what they're going to do next!

  10. Scene it all

    For a while wasn't JPL using FORTH to program their spacecraft?

    1. stiine Silver badge
      Joke

      Its definitely with them.

  11. arachnoid2
    Joke

    I wonder.........

    If they patcher the Y2K issue?

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