back to article No more fossil fuel or nukes? In the future we will generate power with magic dust

Which do you prefer: sweat or green slime? Both are being touted as clean sources of energy to drive electronic devices. Hmm. “Clean” is not how my sweat has heretofore been described, least of all the morning after a garlic curry. But even my pit-pong pales into paucity compared with the environmental damage inflicted by a …

  1. Steve Button Silver badge

    "environmental damage inflicted by a nuclear power station" ... which is what exactly?

    "If a nuclear power station suffers a leak, we’re all dead"... well no. It's not nice but we're not ALL dead.

    Don't you live in France?

    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Don't you live in France?

      Did you not notice that there is an active war zone in France turning it into apocalyptic mess? People swim to the UK for shelter in their thousands now.

      1. Potemkine! Silver badge

        "England is a former French colony which didn't turn well"

        1. Helcat

          Nope: The French never managed to colonise us. Nor the Spanish.

          The Italians: Yes. The Norse: Yes. The Germans: Yes.

          Or, more accurately: The Roman Empire, then the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, and then the Normans (Norse men).

          But never the French (William the Bastard being Normal, hence Norse).

          1. Great Bu

            Forgetting the Celts then......

            Assuming we are forgetting the Celts then, who were from what was later to become France (and bit of Austria...)

            1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Re: Forgetting the Celts then......

              Who is "us" in all this?

              1. ThatOne Silver badge
                Devil

                Re: Forgetting the Celts then......

                Everyone who, like myself, is against "them". :-p

                Don't worry, it's the neighbor syndrome: Even the tiniest perceived inconvenient is upgraded to a casus belli, the goal being to use the thus legitimized belli to seize the goods of that neighbor, or at very least least to make sure he can't enjoy them himself. You can observe it around you every day...

          2. Potemkine! Silver badge

            William the Conqueror was the Duke of Normandy, therefore the vassal of the King of France for this land and Peer of France. Add to this that William's army wasn't only being made of Normans, but also from other French lords from County of Maine, County of Flanders (at that time also a vassal from the King of France), County of Perche, Duchy of Britanny.

            See also the invasion of Louis VIII in 1216, when he was proclaimed "King of England" by rebellious English barons

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "England is a former French colony which didn't turn well"

          England ruled many areas of what is now France. Calais was the last they lost in 1558.

          1. Potemkine! Silver badge

            Yes, but never succeeded to rule the country. Add to this that for most of the lands ruled by the English King, the English King was vassal of the King of France and had to plead allegiance for them.

            The King of England being able to rule the whole French Kingdom was close to succeed because of the betrayal of Isabeau of Bavaria, but her plot failed thanks in part of Johann of Arc.

    2. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Yeah, even when a nuclear power station's reactor catches fire and explodes, although it's pretty catastrophic, it's far from being a "we're all dead" moment.

      Chernobyl was a really badly designed reactor with no containment, and I've watched interviews with the people who had to pick up the bits of the reactor off the roof with their hands, made thirty years later. I mean, yes, it wasn't exactly good for them, but a good number of those who didn't die from the acute radiation poisoning are still about.

      As for Fukushima, well yes, nobody thinks reactors going bang is a good thing, but my understanding is that exactly one person died as a result of that, and this was from being crushed by a falling crane, or something similar. Nobody seems to be talking about the massive fucking tsunami that killed more than 15,000 people and caused those reactors to fail.

      And if we're talking about reactors that leak? Well Windscale (now Sellafield) did that pretty much all the way through the '50s, then caught fire, and there are still people living in Cumbria with the correct number of toes.

      Yes, nuclear has its risks, but so do most things in life. For example, burning coal causes radioactive fallout, and actually releases more radioactivity into the environment than nuclear power does. Because coal contains trace radioactive elements.

      1. John Robson Silver badge

        "As for Fukushima, well yes, nobody thinks reactors going bang is a good thing, but my understanding is that exactly one person died as a result of that, and this was from being crushed by a falling crane, or something similar. Nobody seems to be talking about the massive fucking tsunami that killed more than 15,000 people and caused those reactors to fail."

        Nor the chemical spills from industry up and down the coast.

        And people still don't talk enough about the designed leaks from many other power sources.

        1. Alan Brown Silver badge

          "and this was from being crushed by a falling crane, or something similar"

          He had a heart attack in the cab of the crane and they couldn't get to him because it had fallen.

          On the other hand ~1500 people died in the panic of the evacuation, including patients abandoned on operating tables amongst other things

          Fukushima province is still less radioative than the Yorkshire Dales or downtown Helsinki (both due to the local rocks)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Ah yes Windscale - my mum was a kid on a farm not far from the place back then and they didn't chuck the milk or the veggies that they were told to as it being after the War nothing got wasted. This was in the 1950s ffs so the food must have been as good as glowing for them to be told to throw it out.

        While my number of toes might not be 100% normal, we had that in the family before Windscale so it is probably just bog standard inbreeding.

        1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
          Childcatcher

          Family Name

          Wender?

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

      4. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        To be fair ...

        There were actually three deaths at Fukushima. The other two were power station workers who were washed out to sea by the tsunami.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: To be fair ...

          there was very little warning about the Fukushima tsunami that caused the disaster. Only 2 employees washed out to sea suggests they were at least trying to take cover as best as they could at the time. My best guess is that those two were doing risky things to try and prepare and minimize the disaster (whether it worked or not). I mean they were literally at "ground zero" right at the coastline with a massive wall of water hitting them directly, one that destroyed the entire town (and so on). Mother Nature can REALLY be a BITCH.

      5. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        I guess people shouldn't be coming near Banana aisle with a Geiger counter... if they are afraid nuclear power.

        1. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

          Ah, the old Banana Equivalent Dose. Never mind that 12-24h after ingesting a BED one will crap or piss out more or less exactly the same dose of 40_K. You only keep enough to replenish your intracellular K deficit, which cells are working like crazy to retain anyway, so it's basically in equilibrium.

          Containerloads of bananas have been known to activate security radiation detectors, though.

      6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        "Well Windscale (now Sellafield) did that pretty much all the way through the '50s, then caught fire, and there are still people living in Cumbria with the correct number of toes."

        I had a colleague who'd worked there at the time and was involved in the clean-up. It couldn't have left him very radioactive as he was measuring low levels of weak radioactiviy in our C14 dating lab.

      7. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        re Fukushima

        You're forgetting to mention the estimated cancer deaths for the Fukushima area. IIRC the estimate is 4000 over the 10 years after the incident.

        The estimate was something like 3999.95 cancer deaths over the same time period if the plant wasn't there, of course. (Not including side effects like additional radiation if lack of a nuke plant meant more burning of coal).

        1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

          Re: re Fukushima

          How does 4000 compare to the deaths caused by an equivalent coal power station?

          No axe to grind but I think the casualty rates are roughly similar?

          1. cyberdemon Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: re Fukushima

            No, the cancer deaths from the coal station are significantly worse, due to inhaled nanoparticulates, as well as radioactive material contained in the millions of tonnes of coal burnt, which dwarfs any (normally functioning) nuclear plant emissions.

            Yes of course there was a detectable increase in radiation after fukushima (the thing about radioactivity is, it is so easily detectable in the tiniest quantities, yet not at all harmful in those quantities) but the particulate emissions and chemical spills from more traditional industries are much more harmful, but not so easily detectable.

            As AC said, the cancer rates are estimated to have increased by a factor of about 0.05 in 4000

            There is a huge amount of fear around nuclear power - partly because people are so terrified of nuclear weapons and don't understand the difference between 1) a supercritical nuclear bomb blast, 2) a 'critical' controlled reactor, 3) 'subcritical' fissile material - the highest level of 'nuclear waste', and 4) radioactive but non-fissile material, as leaked from fukushima but also occurs naturally everywhere.

            But partly also I think, due to vested interests (oil) who can make huge profit by spreading anti-nuclear FUD.

            This FUD of course pushes up the cost of nuclear, which then adds to the anti-nuclear argument.

            1. Missing Semicolon Silver badge

              Re: re Fukushima

              The FUD around Nuclear power is mostly from the Hard Greens, for whom only wind and Unicorn farts are fit to be used for making power.

              1. bombastic bob Silver badge
                Megaphone

                Re: re Fukushima

                I think the "No Nuke" hysteria started in Cali-Forn-You in the 60's. That pretty much explains it.

                and no real science since then, lots of FUD, hysteria, emotions, "feel good" protesting, and willing accomplices in government that do what they can to regulate nuclear power out of existence for their own personal gain (and that of their donors). Yeah, pretty much THAT. And I should know things about nuclear power since I spent ~4 years on a sub running the nuclear power plant (and went to school for about 2 years to learn how to do it, which included nuclear physics so we would understand how the things work and why we need certain procedures and precautions).

            2. bombastic bob Silver badge
              Unhappy

              Re: re Fukushima

              As AC said, the cancer rates are estimated to have increased by a factor of about 0.05 in 4000

              oops I misread that. I take back my down vote. I probably need new glasses...

      8. Alan Brown Silver badge

        "And if we're talking about reactors that leak?"

        We should be asking "why?" - especially given that Alvin Weinberg built one which doesn't all the way back in 1965, and being unpressurised & hot enough to make supercritical steam it's got a bunch of advantages over the first laboratory glassware prototype he made (the Nautilus/Shippingport design which is the basis for most in use today)

        Our own El Reg was pushing the tech back in the 2000s (RIP Lester), and one is currently under test in China at Wuwei

      9. Bruce Ordway

        risks, but so do most things in life

        Sure there are issues with using coal, nuclear, plastic, etc.....

        However, isn't the real problem the massive scales of use?

        So why isn't there more discussion about population growth? Probably because leaders know that it isn't possible to manage.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: risks, but so do most things in life

          "So why isn't there more discussion about population growth? Probably because leaders know that it isn't possible to manage."

          Sure it is. Offer a 10,000 pound/dollar/euro bounty to any male who has a vasectomy after having one child, or 20,000 to any female who gets her tubes tied after one, with half bounty after the second child and no bounty after #3. Further, no tax breaks or welfare increases for more than 2 children. Government also covers the cost of the operation regardless of number of kids. Then, ban reversals. This slows the rate of birth considerably, without preventing anyone who wants a large family from having one. It would save more in welfare than it would cost as well. The huge incentives that decrease with more kids, hitting negative money with 3 or more, would drive a lot of people to getting snipped.

          Getting snipped is worth it even without the government interference. I was chopped after child 2 and sex after that was just fantastic! We just get after it when the mood strikes us, without worrying about plastic baggies or whoopsies. With careful investment and only raising 2 kids, our net worth is 7 figures and growing, part of which was the cost savings of not buying birth control over the decades.

          1. Blank Reg

            Re: risks, but so do most things in life

            Governments aren't likely to encourage less baby making as they and economists haven't figured out how to run an economy that isn't growing. There are quite a few countries already facing demographic Armageddon, and it will spread to most countries as they become more developed. Many western countries are only able to grow through immigration, but that will only delay the inevitable. We're a only few decades away from reaching peak population before we go into a global population decline

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: risks, but so do most things in life

            China is a good example of a government deciding how many children you're allowed to have, and you see how well it went since they had to back down after some time, and that despite not being the most touchy-feely government out there.

            Don't say people should breed like rabbits (personally I have a grand total of 0 kids), but you can't enforce something as personal as that without creating an awful lot of bad will. People don't only have kids because they messed up protection, for some it's actually the goal of their life (not even going into religious considerations).

            1. J.G.Harston Silver badge

              Re: risks, but so do most things in life

              AC wasn't talking about the government deciding how many children you have, just providing financial incentives/disincentives to personal choice. Just as there's a financial incentive to put today's income into a pension and spend it later instead of spending it today. That's not the government deciding how you spend your money, just providing incentives and disincentives to your personal choices.

          3. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Stop

            Re: risks, but so do most things in life

            They TRIED population control in COMMUNIST China. Now they have too few women because (NPR link) their "one child policy" motivated the aborting of girl babies so that families could have sons to carry on the family name (etc.) and the army could have SOLDIERS. (I chose an NPR link because if I had chosen Fox News, it would have been a distraction for the ad-hominem attackers to exploit).

            I _DO_ believe (and it is especially apparent over the last few years) that EMULATING COMMUNIST CHINA is something we should NOT _EVAR_ DO.

          4. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: risks, but so do most things in life

            Oh poo! I got mine done after zero kids. How much payout did I miss?

            1. Francis King

              Re: risks, but so do most things in life

              You could always get it reversed and do it twice.

          5. Mooseman Silver badge

            Re: risks, but so do most things in life

            " Offer a 10,000 pound/dollar/euro bounty to any male who has a vasectomy after having one child, or 20,000 to any female who gets her tubes tied after one, with half bounty after the second child and no bounty after #3"

            An admirable concept. It's a pity though, that surging population growth is not a problem in most western countries - the UK population (if you ignore migration) is actually ageing and thus declining (which is why we need more young healthy workers to pay our pensions and no sane government has ever actively tried to limit migration in any meaningful way until we got the current shower). Real runaway population growth is in places like India, China and a multitude of south east Asian, African and South American countries where the necessary amounts of spare money isn't exactly sloshing about.

    3. Red Ted
      Mushroom

      According to Gridwatch France. the French nuclear power stations are generating about 30GW of power (about 60% of the daytime and 75% of the nighttime requirement).

    4. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      I actually just assumed that the stuff about nuclear power was hyperbole... for comedy.

      But seriously it's like anything else that is potentially toxic, from the rare earth stuff that make LCD panels and efficient solar cells possible, to the lithium in high efficiency batteries (halt and catch fire?) to the industrial chemicals needed to etch circuit boards and make those silicon wafers that get turned into cell phones. Some of that stuff (like cyanides and flourides) are EXTREMELY toxic and dangerous outside of the controlled environment.in which they are used and it is my understanding that a LOT of recycling goes on (to avoid dumping toxic waste AND be more economical in the long run - win win).

      My point is not to scare people. My point is that these industries have safety standards they must adhere to, just like nuclear power plants, which means that inevitable accidents are few and far between (and neither the planet nor human population has been killed by these infrequent accidents). The solution is intelligent application of basic safety and attention to important details by operators and management.

      But yeah, to avoid having to live in caves in fear of predators, humans invented ways of using fire, which is ALSO dangerous. Right?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        a LOT of recycling goes on

        On glossy paper only. Meanwhile in reality every night long files of trucks are seen heading to some isolated plot out in the sticks where the mysterious owner has dug a huge and convenient hole. When the hole is full it gets covered with dirt and the trucks start heading to some other newly acquired plot.

        (And no, this isn't some thriller scenario, I've seen them at work. Anon because I don't want to be recycled.)

  2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    DoA

    There is not enough supply of STM32 MCUs, so good luck with scaling this up.

    You may scrap some on Aliexpress, but chances are you'll get a different MCU with reprinted markings to imitate the real deal.

  3. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Give it time

    > they just keep going indefinitely, or at least until the algae get bored

    Or evolves into something that demands rights and payment for the energy produced.

    1. Schultz
      WTF?

      Re: Give it time

      With an output of 1 microAmpere, you really need to give it time ... you'll get a full Coulomb of charge pumped in only 11.5 days. Assuming this cell runs against a voltage of a Volt or so, it would produce a full J of power in said 11 days.

      So how many microW algae cells would we need to replace a good-sized 1 GW nuclear power plant?

      1. jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid Silver badge

        Re: Give it time

        "So how many microW algae cells would we need to replace a good-sized 1 GW nuclear power plant?"

        Answer: Giga/micro = 10¹⁵

        The article says each algae cell was about the same size as a AA battery, so if that's stood on end it takes up about 1cm² of floor space. So a GW of them spread out on the ground (to make sure they still get light) would be 10¹⁵ cm² (100,000 km²), or a square about 316km along each side.

        1. Sam not the Viking Silver badge

          Re: Give it time

          Just for clarity, can we have those dimensions in linguine.

          1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

            Re: Give it time

            If it helps, it's about five times the area of Wales.

            1. Franco

              Re: Give it time

              Sorry, I need it in football pitches to fully comrehend the scale. ;-)

              1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

                Re: Give it time

                I need to have football pitches explained in terms of something else so I can comprehend them (or how much space they're wasting to be specific).

              2. Mooseman Silver badge

                Re: Give it time

                "Sorry, I need it in football pitches to fully comrehend the scale."

                24686725.0965 football pitches. Roughly. A football pitch is about 0.0002 milliwales,

          2. Mooseman Silver badge

            Re: Give it time

            "dimensions in linguine."

            The proposed algae square to produce a GW of power would be 2257142.8571 lg on a side

      2. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

        Re: Give it time

        How many microwatts in 1 gigawatt? Let me think about that one...

        For those who can't do simple maths in their heads, that is one quadrillion (1015). Now the question is how much space would that take up, in an arrangement where they all get a suitable amount of light falling on them?

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: Give it time

          a simple derivation: a solar panel of one square meter can generate about 200W of electricity in good sunlight. I bet this is WAY more space-efficient than a tub of BG algae... just sayin'.

          And a typical electric car might require about 10HP for cruising on the highway which would be around 7.5KW. City driving may require even more (on average, even with dynamic braking). So 2 hours' worth of battery is around 15KWH (at the least, let's say), after which you will probably need a charge. Now how many square meters of solar panels do you need JUST to charge the car? (and it has to be during the day - when you are WORKING and DRIVING - in order to be of practical use). And if EVERYONE at your company, or the store, or your apartment building, wants to charge THEIR cars TOO...

          Numbers and math and reality are more fun than simply saying stuff that I already know to be true and being argued with because nobody likes hearing it, i.e "My beautiful bubbles, stop BURSTING them!"...

    2. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Give it time

      Slavery with extra steps?

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: Give it time

        Shh... don't let "them" know the truth about Rick

  4. ShadowSystems

    Quantum computing is easy to understand.

    But then my brain is so twisted it can pat itself on the back without having to turn around, so that may just colour my outlook a tad. Or perhaps the Dried Frog Pills are the cause of all the pretty colours & this is all just an impressive hallucination.

    I can't explain how the stuff works though, we need AMFM1 for that level of gibbering insanity. =-)p

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Quantum computing is easy to understand.

      How about a proper "Hello World" application using quantum logic gates?

      (or perhaps "Hello, World?" - that's a quantum computing joke I think...)

  5. Steve K

    Not that I was expecting to understand any of the maths, the macroscopic two-level Hamiltonian thingy looks impenetrable, but I was wondering if this is also caused by mathematical markup/ formatting getting screwed up OR if they have invented a whole load level of brainf@ck style notation:

    $${{{{{\mathcal{H}}}}}}=\hslash \left({\begin{array}{lc}{\omega }_{{{{{\rm{B}}}}}}[{N}_{{{{{\rm{B}}}}}}(t)]&-{{\Omega }}\\ -{{\Omega }}&{\omega }_{{{{{\rm{S}}}}}}\end{array}}\right),$$

    1. stiine Silver badge
      Coffee/keyboard

      Its just hard so brace yourself before you try.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Nah...

      Somebody just copied some raw rich text out of a word doc.

      1. Paul Kinsler

        Re: raw rich text out of a word doc.

        It looks more like latex to me... but then maybe rich text markup is similar?

    3. batfink

      Ah that takes me back

      ..to the heady days of LISP

    4. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      understanding "non-algebraic but looks looks it COULD be algebra" math notation can be a real bother. Often I do not have time to take 2 years' worth of classes nor 8 hours' of online frustration searches to understand what it means, but if I try and put myself into the mindset of the people that use this kind of math (like statisticians, for example) that SOMETIMES I can "get" what they are doing well enough to create a computer program that analyzes data "that way". Last time I did that was with some averaging method that was being used for ocean wave analysis when suddenly realized that their equations were actually expression values in terms of data sets and the equations that described them, then doing algebra and whatnot wiih equations instead of variables. Then it was like "OK then I guess THIS is what they're doing" and some pretty good results emerged.

      Similarly for the quantum computing math, at least I hope so.

      Seriously we DO need a "Hello, World?" example.

  6. Mike 137 Silver badge

    "some of the daylight that the sun carelessly drops in our direction and is just going to waste"

    Not exactly going to waste. The 'daylight' would otherwise fall on the surfaces that the PV panels cover up, warming them, and even causing plants to grow. Granted that the PV converts energy into a form we find more convenient, but the concept of 'waste' in this context seems rather narrowly western-urban-ethnocentric for comfort. As a parallel, a Cambridge physicist calculated a few years back that, given the typical density of UK housing estates (20+ dwellings per acre), geothermal heating would not work except for the few, as there wouldn't be enough to go round.

    What we really have to do to sustain our own future as a species (the planet itself being much more robust than we are) is to abandon the concept of growth being the primary indicator of achievement. Granted, it's the measure 'used' by all life on the planet but the gross impact of all other species is curbed by inherent limits such as dying out by the ton when resources dry up. Our fundamental difference is that we're so darned adaptable that we have so far sidestepped such natural controls. Consequently, we have to start thinking differently - not 'going back to nature' in this respect but striving to overcome the 'natural' drives and patterns of behaviour. Locusts can only operate the way they do because they're hard wired to do so. We have the capacity to abandon the evolutionary hard wiring, and it's long overdue that we did.

    1. Alistair Dabbs

      Re: "some of the daylight that the sun carelessly drops in our direction and is just going to waste"

      >> The 'daylight' would otherwise fall on the surfaces that the PV panels cover up, warming them, and even causing plants to grow.

      If the solar panels on my roof prevent plants from growing on it, all the better.

    2. jmch Silver badge

      Re: "some of the daylight that the sun carelessly drops in our direction and is just going to waste"

      "a Cambridge physicist calculated a few years back that, given the typical density of UK housing estates (20+ dwellings per acre), geothermal heating would not work except for the few, as there wouldn't be enough to go round."

      Might have been for currently 'easily-available' geothermal. If we can develop the technology to drill about 5km+ deep, there's more energy than we can ever consume, everywhere in the world.

      "abandon the concept of growth being the primary indicator of achievement"

      Very absolutely this, and triple thumbs-up. Closely related is using GDP as a measure of "what must always grow". GDP says very little about either wealth (since it's divorced from purchasing power), nor about quality of life (since it doesn't take account of any other factors than strictly monetary). The main advantage of using GDP is that it's easy to calculate. In other words, just like looking for your lost keys under the streetlight is easier cos there's more light, even if you lost your keys somewhere else.

    3. Shooter
      Alert

      Re: "some of the daylight that the sun carelessly drops in our direction and is just going to waste"

      "a Cambridge physicist calculated a few years back that, given the typical density of UK housing estates (20+ dwellings per acre), geothermal heating would not work except for the few, as there wouldn't be enough to go round."

      Holy crap!

      My house sits on a one-acre lot, and I sometimes think my neighbors are *still* too close for comfort. I can't imagine living with 19 other homes on the same size plot.

      (I know - I'm privileged.)

      1. ThatOne Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: "some of the daylight that the sun carelessly drops in our direction and is just going to waste"

        > My house sits on a one-acre lot, and I sometimes think my neighbors are *still* too close for comfort

        The size of your lot is irrelevant: No matter how big it is, neighbors will always be too close for comfort...

        (And that's not (just) basic misanthropy speaking, it's a fact that people have an inborn capacity to be annoying over great distances, like for instance believing that they can turn the "music" up to 11 in their garden because they are "alone". I live in an apartment and hear my neighbors just as much as some friends who live on a 7-acre plot.)

    4. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: "some of the daylight that the sun carelessly drops in our direction and is just going to waste"

      eventually, ALL solar energy turns to heat. Electricity, work, waste heat, friction, you name it - all become heat energy, eventually. 1st law of thermodynamics. The energy of performing work is applied to it in order to overcome some form of friction or resistance, which creates heat. Even your computer gets hot when it computes. Potential energy even becomes heat once the potential is released. Solar power from BG algae is no different, and BG algae growing eventually turns into rotting mass after it dies, which releases heat as bacteria eat it.

      Kinda like that. So making and then using electricity out of Mr. Sun's rays still creates heat, in about the same amount as if it had not been made, over time.. Energy in = Energy out, in one form or another.

  7. chivo243 Silver badge
    Go

    Calling Rodney McKay

    I’m pretty sure the boffins from those other dimensions are sucking energy out of our computers in order to run theirs.

    I think you're due some royalties!

    https://www.gateworld.net/wiki/Interdimensional_energy_collector

    1. Kevin Johnston

      Re: Calling Rodney McKay

      Alas for Mr McKay, this was pre-dated by Isaac Asimov's book The Gods Themselves (1972?) which has transfer of energy between Universes as the central theme

  8. Evil Scot
    Pint

    Paging Charles Stross

    Me thinks Dabbsy has been at your I.P. eh?

    Then again I think Simon is Bob Howard's Pen name.

    The Director will see you soon Mr Dabbs.

  9. Potemkine! Silver badge

    I've heard we could change people into batteries to power up machines. Let's work on that.

    1. Claverhouse Silver badge

      In either Nineteen Ninety-Four or Nineteen Ninety-Eight, two series from the BBC exploring the future way back when, when everyone would have hapless little robots called 'Fetchers', power would be generated by encouraging the workers to pedal continuously to generate power and achieve happiness.

      .

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Ninety-Four

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        "power would be generated by encouraging the workers to pedal continuously to generate power and achieve happiness."

        Nowadays money is generated for Peleton by encouraging workers to pedal continuously and achieve happiness. Unfortunately for Peleton it no longer seems to generate enough happiness for the pedallers and hence not as much money as Peleton would like.

      2. MrBanana

        There is a Rick And Morty episode devoted to just this. Rick uses a micro-universe of slave people to power his car battery https://rickandmorty.fandom.com/wiki/Microverse_Battery

  10. Fading
    Coat

    Given time crystal realisations....

    reach stability only if isolated from the environment and the observer, I guess no one can easily check if they did manage to produce two of them......

    1. ThatOne Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Given time crystal realisations....

      That's why they can freely claim they've created dozens of them...

  11. ChrisC Silver badge

    "Researchers at the University of Lancaster’s Physics department, Royal Holloway London, Landau Institute and Aalto University in Helsinki cooled superfluid helium-3 to almost -273.15°C inside a rotating refrigerator, created two "time crystals" (which are impossible) and brought them into touch (which is impossible)."

    Damn, all that hard work, and still only 1/3rd of the way towards earning themselves a celebratory breakfast at Milliways...

  12. GlenP Silver badge
    Happy

    I've Been Wondering...

    Will all the offshore wind farms they're building on the East Coast of the UK have a significant effect on onshore wind speeds? They must have an impact, as pointed out you can't "make" energy, so in a few years time will the be blamed for localised climate change?

    "I can't hang my washing out any more, thanks to all those ***** wind farms - I have to sue the tumble drier1"

    1. jmch Silver badge

      Re: I've Been Wondering...

      "Will all the offshore wind farms they're building on the East Coast of the UK have a significant effect on onshore wind speeds? "

      Some much cleverer people than me have worked out that there is a theoretical 30% efficiency limit on turbines. So at most they could take out 30% of the wind power even if they occupied 100% of the cross-sectional area the wind passes through. Given that in practice most wind passes above and below turbine blades, and there is a lot of space between turbines, I would say that the turbines themselves occupy far, far less than that.

      Also, the wind energy is constantly being replenished by solar heating of the atmosphere, sea and land at different rates to each other and in different locations, so it's not going to run out any time soon.

      Short answer, no.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I've Been Wondering...

        Given that the climate factors mentioned are sensitive to chaos theory starting conditions - then any side-effects will be seen with hindsight.

      2. ThatOne Silver badge
        Holmes

        Re: I've Been Wondering...

        > Short answer, no.

        Indeed. I know we're talking about wind turbines so we should fear and hate them (they're green!), but you'll have to admit their wind resistance is way smaller than that of an average building.

        So, did building Manhattan have any noticeable effect on the general climate of the state of New York? That thicket of high rises certainly blocks winds more than any wind farm ever could... (Replace by any big city in your own area, they all tend to be full of buildings.)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I've Been Wondering...

          "That thicket of high rises certainly blocks winds more than any wind farm ever could..."

          Vortices round high buildings amplify wind forces - even of only a few storeys.

          1. ThatOne Silver badge

            Re: I've Been Wondering...

            True, and cities in general create urban heat islands, but that is all local microclimate, it doesn't really affect the surrounding area.

  13. steelpillow Silver badge
    Coat

    time crystallography

    Semiconductor crystals are useless until you introduce lattice irregularities such as impurities. Similarly, a useful time crystal must hiccup irregularly in order to be useful. It is at those hiccup points that we open our eyes and take a peek. Indeed, the act of doing so is what causes the crystal to hiccup, thus making it useful. Use it or lose it.

    Of course, that's quantum time crystals. Macroscopic time crystals have existed for many years. They are the TV channels that only ever show repeats...

  14. Pen-y-gors

    Time Crystals?

    So we have several impossible things happening before breakfast.

    One problem though is that time crystals must be tiny.

    How about we harness another 'impossible' thing - the humble bumble-bee? They work on a macro scale. I know it would be a bit cruel, but couldn't we hook them up to a mini-treadmill or fly-wheel?

    1. steelpillow Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Time Crystals?

      Hitch a bumble bee to a fly wheel? It won't fit!

  15. yetanotheraoc Silver badge

    So hard to choose

    "Which do you prefer: sweat or green slime?"

    What happens if we mix them together?

    1. cosymart
      Mushroom

      Re: So hard to choose

      See icon>>>>>

    2. ThatOne Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: So hard to choose

      > What happens if we mix them together?

      Green sweat I guess.

      Sounds like a superhero name.

  16. Daedalus

    Impossible things

    created two "time crystals" (which are impossible) and brought them into touch (which is impossible).

    "If you've done six impossible things this morning, why not round it off with breakfast at Milliways, the Restaurant at the End of the Universe."

    Also: there's a lot more to fusion than emulating the Sun. In fact, if a plant did fusion the way the Sun does, it would have to be at least a 100m cube to compete with the output from conventional power stations.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    History repeats itself...

    Anyone else reminded of The Gods Themselves by Asimov (1972)? Not only a fun read, but a message that could still be relevant today.

    1. Kevin Johnston

      Re: History repeats itself...

      Why yes, and had I read to the end of the comments before typing I would not have looked quite so foolish

      1. yetanotheraoc Silver badge

        Re: History repeats itself...

        Comments repeat themselves, too.

        1. Howard Sway Silver badge

          Re: History repeats itself...

          Comments repeat themselves, too.

    2. Daedalus

      Re: History repeats itself...

      A good read, and well worth the Hugo, but he got the physics wrong (he was a biochemist after all). The story revolved around two universes with different strengths of the strong nuclear force, but most of the plot devices required different strengths of the electroweak force.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well

    The Many Worlds theory implies that all possible universes are ... possible. Probable even. So it's likely that another universe exists in which our universe is a computer simulation.

    If our universe were a simulation in a computer, it would explain a lot of things. For instance, a quantum particle doesn't have to make up its mind until someone performs a read on the location. It would also explain a minimum resolution (Planck length) and clock speed (Planck time). It would also explain why, in regions with a lot of stuff, the calculations slow down because there is more crunching to be done. This explains relativistic time dilation. It explains the speed of light - how quickly signals can propagate across the simulation.

    I'm assuming that the simulation runs in a container or a VM. If we could break through to the host or bare metal, then we would have incredible power - time crystals and the like.

    And since you ask, yes I have been drinking

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Angel

    The Doctor

    Rotating fridge, time crystals, I can totally see these turning up in the Tardis next season.

    1. J.G.Harston Silver badge

      Re: The Doctor

      I was picturing more Dirk Gently.

  20. DerekCurrie
    FAIL

    Why Nuke Plants Are A FAIL

    1) The best nuclear plant designs, some of which are decades old, are never even considered because: They cost more money than the unsafe, guaranteed-to-fail designs. IOW: $$$$$$$

    2) The best solutions for dealing with nuclear plant waste, some of which are also decades old, are never even considered because: They cost more money than shoving the problem off on someone else, specifically the future generations of mankind. IOW: $$$$$$$

    There ARE guaranteed safe nuclear plant designs and safe, realistic solutions to nuclear waste. Not a single proponent of building new nuclear plants gives a rat's that they exist. They only want to build the cheap crap that are guaranteed unsafe and ignore nuclear waste. Examine every plant design proposed by nuclear plant proponents! Examine every nuclear waste solution, if any, by nuclear plant proponents!

    Until humans get realistic about solving (1) Nuclear plant safety, and (2) Nuclear waste, Nuke Plants Are A FAIL.

    IOW: It's not design and solutions that are the problem. It's stupid, selfish, money grubbing, psychopathy-leaning idiots that are THE PROBLEM. Until human FAILings are solved, nukes will never be safe and will never have a waste solution.

    Prove me wrong. Please!

    And no, quoting the tired old rhetoric won't pass muster. Read what I wrote again and address that, and only that. I won't respond to the usual talking point BS.

    1. Ozumo

      Re: Why Nuke Plants Are A FAIL

      You seem obsessed with the Isle of Wight.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: Why Nuke Plants Are A FAIL

      your "rules of engagement" are one-sided. Otherwise I could easily prove you wrong.

      Basic point: you confuse basic economics with greed, and overlook the effect of political agendas and governments upon the entire Nuclear industry.

      Truth: given the economic potential of waste recycling and nuclear plant operation, many power companies would LOVE to build more plants and recycle nuke waste. It's just that political protests, malicious lawsuits, corrupt and ignorant politicians, and government regulations PROHIBIT THEM FROM BEING PROFITABLE.

      And it is not a 'safety vs unsafe' issue either. Any company that wants to be profitable has managers and directors that realize the importance of safety on employee retention, public image, AND profitability in the sense that good safety means more profits, happier employees, and better chance at success. And also, there would be no need to settle all of those wrongful death claims, injury claims, equipment and property damage claims, and other legal problems that negligence and lack of safety can cause.

      "IOW" corporations are run by people who are not inherently evil. They just want to make money, for themselves, and for their investors. Who wouldn't?

      But these points fall outside of your rules of engagement, so I am sure you will not consider them.

    3. Dagg Silver badge

      Re: Why Nuke Plants Are A FAIL

      Also the big issue is the current nuclear solution is more expensive than renewals and battery storage.

    4. Mooseman Silver badge

      Re: Why Nuke Plants Are A FAIL

      "There ARE guaranteed safe nuclear plant designs and safe, realistic solutions to nuclear waste. Not a single proponent of building new nuclear plants gives a rat's that they exist. They only want to build the cheap crap that are guaranteed unsafe and ignore nuclear waste. Examine every plant design proposed by nuclear plant proponents! Examine every nuclear waste solution, if any, by nuclear plant proponents!"

      Examples? All you have here is a longwinded rant. You even declare that you won't respond to anyone contradicting you ("tired old rhetoric" which basically means anyone who disagrees - do you work for the government by any chance?)

  21. Exact Circus
    Pint

    70 anni fa ...

    Why pixie dust sometimes is the only way to keep hope alive

    On the dynamics and evolution of some sociotechnical systems, Elliott W. Montroll, Bull. Amer. Math. Soc. (N.S.) 16(1): 1-46 (January 1987).

    pp 38-39

    "On December 2, 1942, Enrico Fermi and his colleagues produced the first sustained fission chain reaction, demonstrating the feasibility of a nuclear power plant. By fifteen years later, the first commercial nuclear power plant was operating.

    The highly successful space program was initiated only a few decades after primitive rocket experiments. Robert Goddard's first success in shooting a rocket over a mile vertically was achieved on May 31, 1935; twenty-six years later the Soviet cosmonaut was the first human to encircle the globe in a rocket-launched satellite.

    The record of these successes has led the public, and even numerous scientists, to believe that with a little money and ingenuity, any desired scientific goal could be achieved. Unfortunately, this is not always true. Consider the magnetically confined fusion program which started as Project Sherwood in 1951. ...

    ...

    I contend that the magnetically confined fusion program has fallen victim to the tyranny of many dimensionless constants. The great engineering successes of the past have involved processes which could, to a first approximation, be characterized by a small number of dimensionless constants. Hence only a small number of model experiments were necessary to determine the feasibility of a project and to estimate the cost and difficulties to be surmounted. Even the space program was broken down into a number of subprojects, each of which could be analyzed in terms of a small number of dimensionless constants so that the results of many independent model tests could be used as a basis of the required full-scale engineering designs.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In the 1970s a colleague occasionally worked to earn money for long stays at a New Age community. One day he showed me round the campus they were building. The focal point was a large assembly hall. He pointed to the apex and explained that once completed there would be a crystal suspended by gold wires. When everyone was in the hall - their mind thoughts would generate enough electricity to make them independent of the national electricity grid.

    They also believed that you could change the genetics of food crops by exercising the same mind power.

    1. ThatOne Silver badge

      If you concentrate enough human minds focused on one point, you can create lots of money. That's a fact. Not energy or crops or anything, but lots of moolah. It's the reason to be for any and all sects: Creation of wealth for the happy guru.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Alien

      their mind thoughts would generate enough electricity to make them independent of the national electricity grid

      Well, I would say "not wrong" except in the magnitude of scale (which is obviously LAUGHABLE). Given that thoughts are a kind of 'energy' it would be interesting to see whether they can be harnessed somehow. Crystals have resonance, and if you whistle at the tone of a bell, it will start ringing (this is how radios work by the way with resonant electronic circuits receiving broadcasts).

      I have often speculated the possibility that human thought and observation are directly related, and if M theory is correct, that same thought+observation energy must go someplace to create the new parallel universe whenever a (significant) quantum potential is observed. I suspect it goes to its own separate dimension, the "n + 1'th" dimension, one which separates THIS n-dimension reality from the other (theoretical) n-dimension reality(ies) based on the observations of one or more living beings that have thought energy. Or something like that.

      Just a thought, at any rate. And no electricity was created by it. Damn.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        thought+observation energy must go someplace to create the new parallel universe

        OMG, (crystal) pure New Age magical thinking! Sorry, brains might work electro-chemically, but the electricity involved is very weak. If currents that weak could alter Reality, I'd rather not imagine what a lightning strike or even your bedside lamp could do. BTW, computer/smartphone CPUs also compute using electricity. Do they create alternate universes too?

  23. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge
    Boffin

    Pixie Dust

    All sounds great until Glencore PLC corners the market on pixie dust mines. You thought you were going to dig up your own in the back garden? Think of the environmental damage created by millions of unregulated backyard mines. And then there's all that spent pixie dust which will have to be moved into long term storage. We can't just leave that lying around and possibly falling into terrorist hands. And you certainly aren't going to be pouring that goo down the loo, are you?

  24. Exact Circus
    Pint

    International power source of mystery

    CLERK (reading) : Pixie Dust, personal effects.

    AUSTIN: Actually, my name's Austin Dust.

    CLERK: It says here, name Pixie Dust.

    AUSTIN: Pixie's my middle name.

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