back to article Alibaba sued for selling a 3D printer that overheated, caught fire, and killed a man

Alibaba is being sued in the US by the parents of a man, who bought a 3D printer from the Chinese e-commerce giant, and died in an accident after the device allegedly malfunctioned and caught fire. Hoi Kwong Yu and Janice Yu, parents of Calvin Yu, claim their son purchased "a defective Tronxy X5SA 24V 3D printer" from Alibaba' …

  1. Scott 26

    Tragic and all that, but "humiliation"?

    1. Paul Herber Silver badge
      Trollface

      Lost face.

    2. David 132 Silver badge

      I wondered at that too. All I can suggest is that if my last thoughts were “oh no I’ve been killed by a shonky off-brand 3D printer” I’d find that pretty humiliating.

      More seriously - and sympathetically - though, perhaps each of those words have very specific implications in the US civil legal system (e.g. “Pain: 1.5x damages multiplier. Humiliation: 1.4x multiplier”) hence their specific inclusion by the lawyers?

      1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

        Humiliation: 1.4x multiplier

        In an ideal world that would be more of a reason NOT to use the word if it didnt happen.

        but lawyers .....

      2. William Towle
        Joke

        Off-brand printer

        > All I can suggest is that if my last thoughts were “oh no I’ve been killed by a shonky off-brand 3D printer” I’d find that pretty humiliating.

        Shenzhen Tronxy may forever be abbreviated that way as a result of this...

        // not entirely sure if serious -->

    3. Falmari Silver badge

      "claiming he suffered pain, emotional distress, despair and humiliation moments before the disaster."

      How did he suffer pain and those emotions before the disaster started? Would it not be during the disaster?

    4. steviebuk Silver badge

      As mentioned, lost face. As it appears he's of Chinese decent, the Chinese culture is all about face. Which is why in the Winter Olympics the ski slope was next to power stations. It appears to be an odd location to the West but for Xi and the CCP its about "face". It says "Look at what we have. We have all these big powerful, power stations".

      Doubt this case will go anywhere as Alibaba is under the CCP thumb now. They'll either pay out to make the case go away or just ignore it.

      1. martinusher Silver badge

        They were obsolete, closed, power stations. The facility was designed around these abandoned industrial facilities to give it a 'video game' look. (Its also cheaper and a lot less hassle than demolishing the area and carting everything away.)

  2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Ebay

    Apart from the chances of anyone from Alibaba turning up in court in the USA

    Has there been a successful case of anyone suing Ebay for the damages from a bit of tat they sold?

    1. Falmari Silver badge

      Re: Ebay

      @Yet Another Anonymous coward "Apart from the chances of anyone from Alibaba turning up in court in the USA"

      They are suing Alibaba Group (U.S.) Inc, who are incorporated in Delaware. So a very good chance someone will turn up.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Ebay

        Yes a lawyer from the office that has their brass plaque will turn up to see "my clients are a market place, they have no liability, they have no employees in the USA"

        The CEO of Alibaba isn't being dragged from Shenzen in an orange jumpsuit

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: Ebay

        "incorporated in Delaware."

        Not surprised look -------------->

        Clearly they took "local" advice when registering in the US. Under "normal" circumstances, you'd expect a company to want to be seen to be registered/based in a prestige address. Especially from a culture that places a lot of store in that sort of thing/

    2. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Ebay

      "Has there been a successful case of anyone suing Ebay for the damages from a bit of tat they sold?"

      It isn't eBay selling the tat, they are just the operator of the marketplace the individual sellers use to market their wares.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Ebay

        Yes that was the point, exactly like Aliexpress

        Either the prosecution says 'here are cases where Ebay/craigslist were found liable for the tat sold on their platform' or Aliexpress says: you didn't find Ebay liable - you can't find us liable just cos we're Chinese.

  3. Gene Cash Silver badge

    These have had firmware protections turned OFF

    There's specific safety code in the Marlin firmware that literally everyone uses for FDM printers. It does things like check if the fans spin up when you turn the printer on, check if there's a sensible tach reading from the fans, check if there's a sensible temperature reading from the extruder, turn the extruder heat off after an idle period, turn the extruder off if the temp goes to zero or above a limit or a fan stops running.

    Like all software, this is all configurable at compile time.

    Unfortunately, some of the Chinese printers turn all this off. No idea why because it doesn't cost anything or save any money.

    I hope cases like this get these printers banned from import.

    Thomas Sanladerer and others have looked at this.

    https://toms3d.org/2021/08/20/test-your-printers-for-thermal-runaway/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckQ9UWlmdVA

    1. J. Cook Silver badge

      Re: These have had firmware protections turned OFF

      VERY MUCH THIS.

      Even with the thermal runaway function turned on, I make it a habit of being nearby while the thing is running, because you are dealing with a machine that's intentionally designed to melt plastic.

      If you do buy a 3d printer, buy a reputable brand from a reputable company- the additional cost is worth it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Klipper or Marlin won't help here

        This wasn't thermal runaway it was an overdrawn power strip which was under built. Sue the power strip company???

        Thermal runaway doesn't mean anything anywhere but at the print head/extruder and is wildly over exaggerated for YouTube videos. It's far more likely that the power supply to chassis or the supply to the wall is not grounded properly, which has nothing to do with thermal runaway and is far more serious and far more likely to cause a fire. All that aside, a fire caused by the print head is spread differently with a core xy printer than a bed slinger as the slinger will throw the fire on the floor.

        I have this exact printer and it is one of the few 300x3000mm Core XY printers you can buy that isn't great... but is/was _MUCH_ cheaper than buying the parts individually. During the Christmas discount in 2018 on Aliexpress, I paid $275 for two of them shipped (apparently a lot more now). It's a pretty good printer, you just have to replace the supplied belts.

        If you're new to 3D printing and you're a tinkerer or have any engineering aptitude (which you should if you're here), then simply download the assembly manuals for different printers and learn how they're built. They're very, very simple and you'll be much better off knowing how they are built and what they require. That said, if you build yourself a Voron, then you'll spend about $1K to $2K, but if you want a cheap one you'll often find that buying printers off of Ali is cheaper than sourcing the cheap parts yourself.

        1. martinusher Silver badge

          Re: Klipper or Marlin won't help here

          Its difficult to convey to UK readers just how naff US electrical wiring is. It looks harmless because "its only 110 volts" but each circuit can carry 15 or 20 amps which is more than enough to melt inadequate extension cords or cheaply made power strips. A typical budget extension cord is not fit to power anything other than a lamp, phone charger or laptop but there's absolutely nothing stopping you plugging in something that will draw the full circuit current and -- literally -- melting wiring or sockets.

          I'd suggest that the printer itself isn't defective. After all, if it had an overload fault it would blow the product's fuse or the circuit's breaker. Far more likely is a failure in an extension cord, especially if its running along a carpet, has stuff piled on it or is coiled.

          1. rcxb Silver badge
            Flame

            Re: Klipper or Marlin won't help here

            A typical budget extension cord is not fit to power anything other than a lamp, phone charger or laptop but there's absolutely nothing stopping you plugging in something that will draw the full circuit current and -- literally -- melting wiring or sockets.

            Actually, the earthing pin usually prevents it. Extension cords that can't handle the full 15A of a standard NEMA 5-15R are two-pole, no earth affairs (NEMA 1-15R) so you can't plug-in MOST high-power devices, which usually has/needs that third pin.

            Those terrible extension cords aren't very common. Just a hold-over from the pre-1960 electrical standards, and only available in fairly short lengths. Still purchased these days as a cheap option for some low power needs like Christmas lights, but far less common a sight than the (orange) 3-pin extension cords which are quite safe, and rendered pretty uncommon by the rise of power strips/surge protectors (starting in 1970).

            "its only 110 volts"

            Also a hold-over from the 1960s. The US grid has been 120V for many decades.

            1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: Klipper or Marlin won't help here

              > Extension cords that can't handle the full 15A ... are two-pole so you can't plug-in MOST high-power devices,

              Of course you can, you just bend the earth pin out of the way so it fits the end socket, or simply cut if off.

              Where in the USA was this? If he was in the North East it's odds that the electricity came from Quebec-hydro so he can probably sue France

        2. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: Klipper or Marlin won't help here

          "It's far more likely that the power supply to chassis or the supply to the wall is not grounded properly, which has nothing to do with thermal runaway and is far more serious and far more likely to cause a fire."

          An issue with grounding is far more likely to lead to a problem with electrical shock, not fire.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: These have had firmware protections turned OFF

      > Unfortunately, some of the Chinese printers turn all this off. No idea why because it doesn't cost anything or save any money.

      Perhaps it allows them to use cheaper fans that don’t (reliably) send speed data, cheaper extruders where the temp sensor isn’t calibrated, etc.

      Never underestimate the lengths unethical manufacturers will go to to save even fractions of a penny per unit.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: These have had firmware protections turned OFF

      I once assembled an Ender 3 for my brother-in-law,

      It's a good job I checked the wiring in the closed off box you shouldn't need to look in, all the power connecters were loose, and this could have caused a fire.

      This was a manufacturing fault, and no Merlin protection software will save you from that one.

    5. This post has been deleted by its author

    6. commonsense

      Re: These have had firmware protections turned OFF

      The reason you'd turn these off is because they're all points of failure, and therefore reasons to return a faulty item.

      "Fan breaks down, better not tell the user, otherwise he or she will return the item."

    7. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: These have had firmware protections turned OFF

      "There's specific safety code in the Marlin firmware that literally everyone uses for FDM printers"

      Do a favor and eliminate the work "literally" from your vocabulary.

      I have an FDM printer and it doesn't run on Marlin. I might fiddle with that someday, it's supported by Anet, but right now the printer works fine. There goes that "everyone" argument.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Possibility of irony?

    Just wondering if they 3d-printed a coffin....

    1. David 132 Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Possibility of irony?

      A self-cremating one?

      1. Danny 2

        Re: Possibility of irony?

        Two decades ago I told my dad that I wouldn't be at his funeral. "Fine by me, I'll not be there."

        I miss my dad every other day, every third dream, but I don't visit his grave. Because he's not there. If his ghost is anywhere then he's right beside me urging me to turn the TV to sports.

        1. rcxb Silver badge

          Re: Possibility of irony?

          I miss my dad every other day, every third dream

          You should have followed John Cleese's advice and had him stuffed:

          https://youtu.be/f74L2hRZE1Y?t=157

  5. Anonymous South African Coward Bronze badge

    Ali Baba and his 40 thieves...

    We had a Sagsmug laser printer in the office. When you switched it on, and left it for a while, you can smell it is definitely overheating.

    So we scrapped and binned it. Better safe than sorry.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      S. Korea is a hyper capitalist society where the government is owned and controlled by a few mega-corporations - so what do you expect?

      If you want the government to enforce wussy electrical safety standards move to Europe you damn hippie commie

  6. Piro Silver badge

    Utterly tragic, and it's awful someone lost their life without the chance to learn, but..

    If one purchases something from AliExpress, one can never expect it to be safe or comply with any relevant regulations, it all has to be considered risky to some extent.

    1. John69

      Re: Utterly tragic, and it's awful someone lost their life without the chance to learn, but..

      This is true, but it is not a reason not to sue the pants off them if you can.

    2. Jess--

      Re: Utterly tragic, and it's awful someone lost their life without the chance to learn, but..

      I have always assumed that if it came from aliexpress it would be be faulty or unsafe in some way.

      It made it a pleasant surprise to get something that was actually fit for purpose & safe to use

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Utterly tragic, and it's awful someone lost their life without the chance to learn, but..

        Based on my long-term scientific research (aka buying stuff) with aliexpress, pretty much everything they sell is shit. These days, I don't buy anything over a fiver, rarely near a tenner. It's generally shit too, but it's half price of the same junk I would have to pay in the UK. And, at times, there are some pleasant surprises. A small minority, but still.

        p.s. anything I have bought from ali over a tenner was a waste of money, always much sooner than later.

        1. Richard 12 Silver badge

          Re: Utterly tragic, and it's awful someone lost their life without the chance to learn, but..

          I buy disposable LED tape from them. Only needs to survive a few days, and it's extra low voltage.

          Although I have had some tape that got worryingly hot.

          1. that one in the corner Silver badge

            Re: Utterly tragic, and it's awful someone lost their life without the chance to learn, but..

            *Disposable* LED tape? Single-use LEDs? Yikes.

        2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Utterly tragic, and it's awful someone lost their life without the chance to learn, but..

          >aliexpress, pretty much everything they sell is shit

          I have been buying Xiaomi phones from them and I keep getting these made-in-China mobiles rather than proper GPO bakelite phones

  7. MachDiamond Silver badge

    smoke detector

    I have an inexpensive 3D printer that works just fine (Anet ET4+). I don't keep it in my bedroom and I added a smoke detector inside my office where it's located so I can leave parts to run overnight if I need to. I don't worry that it's going to burn the house down and I'll be trapped.

    If it was the power strip or an extension cord that started the fire, that's on the people, not Alibaba or the printer maker. Perhaps household tech is another class that should be taught in school. I've been into electronics for ages and one of my degrees is electrical engineering so wiring, etc is second nature to me and it's unlikely I'll overload an outlet or bit of wiring. Not everybody is going to be as interested, but they should still understand the basics and pass a class. Nobody ever reads the warning statements on things other than weirdos like me. They just rip off the tag and plug it in.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves

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