back to article China 'must seize TSMC' if the US were to impose sanctions

China should seize Taiwan to gain control of TSMC if the United States and its allies impose sanctions against the Middle Kingdom like those now in place against Russia, according to a prominent Chinese economist. The move follows the suggestion last year out of the US that Taiwan should be prepared to destroy its …

  1. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    "TSMC, a company that originally belonged to China"

    That's a new one.

    Frist!

    1. keith_w

      Didn't you know that everything originally belonged to China. Personally I am surprised that they have not claimed at least the western shores of North America if not the entire continent, based on the visit of the Chinese admiral and his fleet, which was destroyed on his return on the orders of the emperor.

      1. lglethal Silver badge
        Trollface

        Give them time...

      2. Peter2 Silver badge

        I take it that you've been reading 1421?

        You might want to cast your eye over this:-

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Menzies

        1. Eecahmap

          Or perhaps _The Years of Rice and Salt_:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Years_of_Rice_and_Salt

          1. Youngone Silver badge

            The Years of Rice and Salt is a terrific book.

    2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Well, Taiwan is the real China...

      1. Arthur the cat Silver badge

        Well, Taiwan is the real China...

        in much the same way as Shetland is the real Britain.

  2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

    The irony is that China, had it gone down the democratic road and not done Tienanmen Square and more recently the Hong Kong suppression, would have had a very good chance for peaceful reunification. Or at least an open borders policy like the EU members enjoy, and no sabres need be rattled.

    It is not the Chinese people, or Chinese culture, that is the problem. It is all down to the CCP.

    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      It is not the Chinese people, or Chinese culture, that is the problem. It is all down to the CCP.

      No. This is naive thinking. Chinese people like CPC, that's why it exists. If they didn't like it then they would have it gotten rid of one way or another.

      1. Potemkine! Silver badge

        Chinese people like CPC, that's why it exists

        Have Chinese people the choice not to like the CPC without going to Laogai?

        1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

          As with pretty much any free and sovereign country, people got it that way by sacrifice.

          There was no fairy that came and got rid of oppresive ruler.

          Chinese people are either cowards and think someone will fight CPC for them or they just like the way it is.

          1. IGotOut Silver badge

            "Chinese people are either cowards and think someone will fight CPC for them or they just like the way it is."

            Tiananmen Square

            You're probably niave or ignorant enough to think the massacre In the square was it.

            Do some more research on how many died , disappeared or were" reducated" outside of the square. The reason it was a relatively "peaceful" massacre in the square , was the fact many were kids of the elite in power.

            Just compare how many died in the US war of independence and how many troops the US (and allies) had vs the British and allies.

            Now compare the number of civilians died in the massacre and how many troops were deployed

            The US war of independence was a picnic in the park on a nice Sunday afternoon compated to what the Chinese population faced.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              And that was in 1989 not 1984

              I agree, cowardice has nothing to do with this.

              The country has gone full Orwell since 1989, and the CCP has committed literal genocide, mass sterilization, and ethnic cleansing since then.

              The average person in China's opinion isn't the problem. They can't "want" their way past the party and the tyrant that runs it. They would literally die in the thousands or millions, and probably still fail without considerable outside support. If they COULD vote them out, they probably would. They tried in Hong Kong, winning in every election until the party rewrote all the laws, and started disappearing people in the middle of the night and sending them to camps.

              Worse, the CCP is sending goons to beat and intimidate people of Chinese decent who live outside china to keep them from speaking out. So when I hear the ccp's forum campers talking crap in the forums here trying to re-frame this kind of thing, I feel I should use the luxury I have to point them out.

              After Russia tripped face first into the self inflicted disaster that is Ukraine, the CCP and Xi have been watching closely. They know that if they try jumping their borders the response will probably be the same, but they won't give up on the idea unless the cost is obviously catastrophic. Moving on Taiwan seems like a foregone conclusion, but it will align the world against them. The US isn't getting surprised by this one either.

              Our entire war machine is lining up to deal with "The China Problem" as it's main strategic focus. As we are seeing in Russia our most effective weapon is often economic. We already have cause to cut China out of the world markets because of genocide. Right now that's not being kicked in high gear, because there is a no-one-says-it-out-loud position that unless China moves on Taiwan or one of the other Asian nations we won't drop the hammer on them. China saying if you drop the hammer on us we will invade is basically the liars version of the same position. As long as it holds we avoid a massive shit show, but also are turning a blind eye to inexcusable human rights violations. But if it happens, both sides will be more ready than Russia was, with bigger consequences.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: And that was in 1989 not 1984

                A better reason than ever to boycott made in China. Though deciphering what is made in Taiwan from made in China is now also tough.

                By some accounts I’ve heard of Tiananmen Square the troops initially sent in refused orders. Later replaced by country-bumpkin idiots that would do what they were told. You can work out what happened to those earlier units.

        2. abstract

          Or Guantanamo

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > No. This is naive thinking. Chinese people like CPC, that's why it exists. If they didn't like it then they would have it gotten rid of one way or another.

        Speaking of naive thinking!

        The people of Hong Kong didn't want the CCP, and they resisted its influence. Yet the CCP decided to crush their will and rule them even harder.

        The Chinese people can't get rid of the CCP because the CCP controls the army; the guns and tanks, planes and nukes; and the people do not.

        > CPC

        Interestingly, the only people who seem to use "CPC", rather than the far more common "CCP", seem to be official CCP state organs and those who do their bidding.

        1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

          If you were paying attention CPC is the official acronym of the communist party and they changed that fairly recently.

          The people of Hong Kong didn't want the CCP, and they resisted its influence. Yet the CCP decided to crush their will and rule them even harder.

          They didn't resist hard enough. Do you think other free countries got their freedom by taking it to the streets for a couple of months and then occupant said "you know what, screw it, have your land back".

          It does not work that way. Unfortunately it takes years, decades, for some nations even hundreds of years and unfortunately rivers of blood.

          Study some history.

          1. imanidiot Silver badge

            Tell me you have no idea what went down without actually saying you don't have a clue what went down...

            It's hard to resist if you've been deported to a re-education camp. It's hard to resist if the government is clearly taking away the custody of your own children. It's hard to resist if hundreds if not thousands of outside military personnel are carted in to quell any protest with a VERY heavy hand. It's hard to resist if the government implements tracking and societal control systems at an unprecedented scale so that they can squash even the mere hint of subversive thought. The list goes on and on.

            Exactly what all the Hong-kongers feared would happen after the handover has happened and since the west just shrugged their shoulders and told them "it's your problem now", there really isn't anything any of them can do anymore. They tried protesting and fighting back and it got them nowhere (or in jail in the middle of nowhere).

            1. PhilipN Silver badge

              Outside military personnel?

              Utter tripe. The PLA occupies barracks in the heart of HK Island and are generally invisible save when driving in impeccably maintained vehicles to other PLA facilities - all taken over in 1997 from the British Army - and never exceeding the speed limit. They certainly never appear on the streets of HK least of all to quell protests - especially when Xi JinPing made it clear that it was a HK problem and HK had better fix it.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Outside military personnel?

                > Xi JinPing made it clear that it was a HK problem and HK had better fix it.

                A pointless and empty statement unless it's backed up by an explicit or implicit "or else".

                But I'm sure the massive PLA buildup just across the HK border at that time of unrest was entirely coincidental.

                1. PhilipN Silver badge

                  Re: Outside military personnel?

                  You obviously do not know China in general or HK in particular.

      3. llaryllama

        If you are told from birth that you live in the greatest country in the world and it's all thanks to the great Spaghetti Monster you would probably love the great Spaghetti Monster.

        I think you are somewhat unfair to the general Chinese populace by suggesting that they are able to revolt against their government if they would just get up and do it. The CCP has had 100 years along with plenty of lessons from the USSR to develop and fine tune their internal propaganda and control machine.

        The Chinese love to mock Taiwanese with the phrase "you are a frog in a well", meaning that they are the enlightened ones who see the world around them while we are stuck in a well unable to see the truth around us (presumably due to Western media/propaganda/whatever). A large majority of Chinese firmly believe this with absolute conviction which shows you how deep the brainwashing runs.

      4. localzuk Silver badge

        There's a million Uyghurs in "re-education" camps at the moment... Do you really think the population of China could stand up to the might of its police and military? I doubt it very much.

        Tiananmen Square shows us they are completely OK killing people who disagree.

    2. VoiceOfTruth Silver badge

      The CCP has raised hundreds of millions out of poverty. Meanwhile the 'free' capitalist west depends on crapping on a very large number of people to survive. There are the 1% worth trillions.

      1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        The CCP has raised hundreds of millions out of poverty.

        Because they adopted capitalism

        Meanwhile the 'free' capitalist west depends on crapping on a very large number of people to survive.

        Ah okay because China does not crap on very large number of people ;-)

      2. Potemkine! Silver badge

        CCP killed tens of millions of Chinese people. CCP has sent hundred of millions of Chinese people into poverty. .

        Abandoning Marxist economy was the way for China to make people less poor.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        It's very easy to "raise" people out of poverty, when you have the power and will to change the definition of "poverty", as the CCP did in order to claim success on Xi's 5-year poverty plan.

        If you really want to see people who're being crapped on by a nation's elites, go out into the Chinese countryside and see how people live.

        1. ZenaB

          Having done this, you have to realise that this is how the vast majority of the country used to live. From what the Chinese people can see, the CCP have done them *very* well.

          Your comment is basically the same as "go see the fields of homeless tents in California/Texas/etc" - yeah some people lose out, no society is perfect. But I bet you the Chinese poor are generally happier than the Western poor :/

          1. llaryllama

            The big difference is that you can go to one of the very poor areas in the US, film it, upload to a US based platform like YouTube and not have to worry about any legal consequences for doing so.

            In fact, many people do this and it can be a powerful force for change.

            It is absolutely forbidden to film any "unpleasant" parts of China and people have been disappeared or thrown in prison for doing so. This way the discussion never happens and neither does the change. Everyone just smiles and says how great the CCP surely is.

            China started getting out of poverty after being allowed to join the WTO. The country became wealthy due to a) hard work of the Chinese people and b) access to foreign markets, all of this despite the CCP trying to jam a spanner into every attempt for reform.

            The PRC was founded in 1949 but study historical GDP data and you will find China was economically stagnant until accession to the WTO in 2001. So what exactly were the miracle CCP doing for 52 years?

            1. ZenaB

              But how many Chinese people care about being able to do that?

              I'm absolutely not advocating for them, just trying to point out how they're seen from *inside* the box. The vast, vast majority of people there see them as having done no wrong and hold them up as having done the lifting of the country, under the guidance of the last few Premieres they've had.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Literally Genocide

            So it IS somewhat like the US in that a persons chances are very different depending on what area of the country you are from, but let's not pretend our skid rows are like their "reeducation camps".

            Not that we shouldn't be held to account on the same international stage for our own transgressions. BOTH SHOULD. And we have done far worse, so if you want to bring that up swing for the fences. I'll be happy to send our past and present leaders to the Hague or Nuremberg to face charges, even if they don't do the same for Xi. Accountability and Justice are their own rewards. But if Xi forces China to start a war of expansion, he may not die of old age, or a free man.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Maybe ask the people in Xinjiang which form of government they would prefer. Western governments don't send millions to re-education camps and enslave them. Quite easy to produce competitively priced products when you have a slave labour force and no concern for their wellbeing. Where women are being forcibly shaved to produce cheap hair products.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Would be interesting to see some comment from the down voters as to why they disagree with this comment. Presumably, they support slavery.

      5. Snake Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Voice of "truth"

        Usually I prefer not going into such a political discussion, but are you conveniently forgetting the millions that died during the Great Chinese famine, structured within Mao's 5-year plans?

        https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=chinese+famine&ia=web

        Try reading Tombstone

        https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13538825-tombstone

        it gets repetitive but it does detail the organizational failures...and millions dead.

        1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

          Re: Voice of "truth"

          These people shill for communism, because they deluded themselves that once it finally arrives, they'll be given things for free, everyone will be equal and happy...

          Information about hundreds of millions dead only triggers cognitive dissonance and is quickly rejected.

          Usually result in "This wasn't real communism", "This time will be different" and so on...

          Such a toxic ideology, should have been banned just like Nazism.

          1. Trigun

            Re: Voice of "truth"

            I've noticed this "Let's try communism again! What can go wrong?" trend.

            Lots can and has gone wrong. Add to that socialism and nationalism (and the two combined).

            History can be a very good teacher, if ones cares to take even a brief glance at it.

            1. Snake Silver badge

              Re: "communism"

              Let's not jump into an easy belief that "communism" is worse than what we currently have, capitalism. There has NEVER been communism on planet Earth: what capitalist societies label as "communist" for their own convenience was authoritarian Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist, as actually officially termed inside the CCCP itself

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism%E2%80%93Leninism

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinism

              The idea was to, eventually, move to TRUE communism, rule and ownership by the mass collective.

              But they never achieved that; no "communist" country has moved beyond the central planning and military enforcement of authoritarianism.

              So please, don't throw the commonly-misused words around. Capitalism has millions of dead in its closet too, from well-known situations like Triangle Shirtwaist to Sampoong to Rana Plaza to Bhophal, to the lesser spoke-of deaths of people worked to death under starving wages and oppressive hiring like 19th century mine workers and textile industry child laborers. Read Riis' How the Other Half Lives; Sinclair's The Jungle; and then go visit actual spaces where these people struggled for survival in a cutthroat, it's-all-about-profit world - then come back and we'll talk.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Good luck whitewashing communism

                Trying to pretend their is a functional version of it is the first tool used by the authoritarians to trick people into believing it. The wheels fell off of even the academic idea years ago. The rest of the world pivoted to socialism to salvage what few good ideas were there. Why would anyone expect a nearly 200 year old economic and philosophical experiment to yield different results after having what by your own admission is a 100% failure rate and was responsible for some of the worlds worst atrocities?

                Capitalism sucking isn't a reason to switch to another failed system, and it's isn't addressing the reasons our governments are failing. A decent democracy has better track results, at least as far as ones with regulated markets, accountable leaders, and basic standards of competence.

                The western world is being torn down by idiots like Trump and Bojo, oligarchs running rampant, and zombified octogenarians that are made out of human styrofoam like Biden. Communism won't fix that. Never has and never will.

              2. imanidiot Silver badge

                Re: "communism"

                Capitalism is the system now shown in the long term to result in the LEAST amount of overall deaths and the best chance of "upward mobility" of all layers of society.

                TRUE communism doesn't exist. True communism CANNOT exist because there will always be authority and there will always be those that TAKE authority if there is no good system to suppress them. Communism doesn't have the means to prevent those in charge from taking the power and authority for themselves. There must always be a "transition period" and once that transitional "government" is in charge there will always be those who take power who will not want to then relinquish it. See Russia, Cuba, China and every other communist experiment ever. Communism has not worked, communism will not work, communism cannot work. It's killed tens if not hundreds of millions every time its been tried and there is absolutely NO excuse to think any further attempt will be different.

                Your claims amount to "well if I were in charge" and I can guarantee you that if you TRY to enact your version of "true" communism, you'll either fail or get removed and erased from history by less scrupulous people in very very short order.

                The people worked to death in the mines or in he textile industry would before those existed worked themselves to death in the fields of subsistence level farming or worked themselves to death in less organised mines or home textile operations. Capitalism didn't change anything in that. Under communism they would have STILL worked themselves to death in the mines or mills, as "equals" to those working themselves to death in the factories or on the farms because someone has to do those jobs and everyone being equal, they can work themselves to death just fine. Communism wouldn't change that (In fact it probably made it worse).

                I suggest you read books like "the gulag archipelago" and read up on how people under every single nominally communist system actually worked and lived. Or better yet talk to people who lived it. It wasn't better (and for some it wasn't worse either). People have been abused and oppressed under every single political system in the world. A somewhat controlled capitalism under a democratic government seems by far to be the most benign form we have until now found.

                Capitalism is far from perfect and horrendous things have been done, but to think they wouldn't have happened under your flavour of "communism" or any other sort of system is naive at best.

      6. BrocheeForEveryone

        Garbage, lol.

        It was the trillions of dollars of Western investment over the past 50 years that lifted half of the Chinese population out of poverty and into the middle class.

        The CCP has kept the Chinese population from being even more successful because of their brutal dictatorship over the Chinese economy.

        You have a population more than four times bigger than the US, yet our economy is larger. It shouldn't be this way, but it is, and that is because of the policies of your authoritarian emperor, Xi Jing Ping Pong and his cowardly, corrupt cronies and predecessors.

        Unbelievable this utter trash you spew.

        Disgusting.

      7. llaryllama

        For someone who loves to praise China and crap on western democracy I'm 99% sure you have never actually been to China. Abject poverty is rife in China but it's swept under the rug.

        1. imanidiot Silver badge

          He might well be from one of the larger Chinese cities. If you walk through Beijing, Shenzen or Suzhou you wouldn't know how poor most of China is unless you traveled far away from those areas. But most Chinese never have and never will. It's also good to keep in mind just how big China actually is. It's like saying someone living on the US east coast who's never traveled past Jersey should be aware of the homeless problem in LA. In the US he might know somethings up from at least SOME reporting on the issue, in China people are blind and blinkered because the media simply will not report on the existence of the poverty and mass labour camps.

      8. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Troll alert

        you get to keep the ones you feed..

    3. llaryllama

      Unification - not reunification. Taiwan has never been under control of the PRC.

    4. abstract

      Stop kidding. The only problem is the US simply can't stand to have been overtaken that quickly. Everything the US does is reactive, defensive and apparently futile.

      The West has spent centuries making sure that other countries stay behind or under their control. No country that the US don't control is set free. Every country that develops technology out of the US control is qualified as a threat.

      Democratic? The US install and finance all dictators in Africa and middle-east because they fear they can't control the people in these countries.

      But the tendency will increase as the West declines and goes weaker and weaker, the rest of the world will develop independently.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You know its amazing, I can only think at this point that Fallout was made by people from the future or the CCP are huge fans of its lore and are eager for it to become reality.

  4. An_Old_Dog Silver badge
    Flame

    As in the days of the pharoahs

    "I'm sorry, valued slave^H^H^H^H^H TSMC worker, the information in your head is too strategically-valuable to be allowed to fall into enemy hands. You will be killed to prevent this from happening."

    (icon for scorched-earth/scorched-employee policy)

    1. llaryllama

      Re: As in the days of the pharoahs

      I know quite a few people who work for TSMC and they get paid very well. You might be confused with another company.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: As in the days of the pharoahs

        Maybe less about the money, and more about the working conditions. That and the idea that your boss might decide to off you to protect company/state secrets. Not that I think that they'd be telling you guys that.

        Still, as there may be TSMC peeps here, I totally get why you may bristle at that term. I get touchy when my colleges refer to our office as the "dungeon" and that's not nearly as offensive.

        1. llaryllama

          Re: As in the days of the pharoahs

          Anyone who has visited Taiwan for longer than 2 weeks will realize these comments are just silly.

    2. imanidiot Silver badge

      Re: As in the days of the pharoahs

      TSMC (and support companies like ASML and Applied Materials) probably have a list of employees that'll be on the first plane or boat away from the island at the first sign of (possible) trouble.

  5. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Because our economical and political leaders sold most of the western industries to China and delocalized so many jobs there, there will be no sanction against China similar to the ones against Russia.

    TSMC should expect a couple of paratroops divisions jumping on the factories to avoid any destruction

    1. DS999 Silver badge

      How would the paratroopers prevent the destruction?

      It isn't like the TSMC employees would be using sledgehammers to knock down the buildings. Taiwan's army would just need to lob a few shells on the roof, the vibrations alone (even if the explosions weren't big enough to bring down the roof) would destroy the insanely finely calibrated equipment, or at least leave it requiring expensive repair. Paratroopers can't stop that, if they landed on the buildings they'd just become collateral damage when the shells hit.

      What's more, even if China could magically take the fabs untouched they would not be able to use TSMC's most recent processes that utilize EUV scanners. There is only one vendor for those in the world (ASML, based in Europe) and they require constant maintenance to keep in working order. Maintenance which of course would not be forthcoming if Taiwan was forcibly taken.

      I'm not sure if the paper recommending destruction of the fabs was advocating for artillery fire like I suggest here, or wiring the place with explosives that could be remotely detonated. While that might do a better job of fully destroying everything, I sure wouldn't want to work in a building I knew was wired with explosives so that seems sort of a "we'll implement it if we see China massing forces along the coast to prepare for an invasion" thing, not a "just in case they come" thing.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: How would the paratroopers prevent the destruction?

        Indeed. They'd probably only need to leave the doors open.

        A few hundred grams of wind-blown sand would utterly destroy most of the machinery.

        This stuff is fragile. Really, really fragile.

        1. An_Old_Dog Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: How would the paratroopers prevent the destruction?

          Factory cleanrooms do not have windows for that very reason, but as noted above, a few artillery rounds would do the job nicely. No need to have wired explosives and a Doctor Evil-style self-destruct switch with the attendant risks it would bring.

          Our mainframe was taken down once by someone accidentally hitting the emergency power-off switch, and once more by the same person explaining how he'd accidentally hit the EPO. (He knew where the figurative bodies were buried, and was quite competent in his area of expertise, so he kept his job.)

          1. Zolko Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: How would the paratroopers prevent the destruction?

            a few artillery rounds would do the job nicely

            And then ? What value would Taiwan have to the US if the TMSC factories were destroyed/unusable ? If Taiwan did indeed destroy its semiconductor factories, it would still retain the same – nationalistic – value for China, but would loose all value for everybody else.

            So no, the scorched Earth approach wouldn't work for Taiwan. That's like the atomic bomb threat: it's only boasting, not a real usable weapon. Icon, obviously

            1. DS999 Silver badge

              Re: How would the paratroopers prevent the destruction?

              The idea is that if China believes Taiwan will destroy TSMC fabs then it removes one claimed potential reason for an invasion.

              It is like burning your fields when your country is invaded in past wars to starve the invaders (of course you starve your people too, but that was probably going to happen anyway when they stole your harvest)

              1. Zolko Silver badge

                Re: How would the paratroopers prevent the destruction?

                That's probably the crux of the matter: China doesn't want Taiwan because of TSMC, but because of nationalist viewpoint (One China).

                On the other hand, Taiwan's value to the "west" is – mostly – in its high-tech industrial sector, with TSMC on the top: should they distroye that industry, why would NATO be interested in them ?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Beware the fool.

            Failure mode was to let him out of his pen and near the obviously placed and easily accessible button. Amend risk management plan immediately. Costs for holding pen comfort improvements can be offset by outsourcing the "expertise" in wrecking things to the QA guys.

            Weirdly is seems like most Semi's fabs have a "That Guy". After a high profile seagull kill I overheard one guy getting fired, not because he caused the accident, but because he wasn't watching the guy who did more closely.

            They don't let me in clean rooms so it wasn't me. I am one of those magic people who can contaminate a clean room through three bunny suits just by walking across the shop floor without touching anything. My whole family basically sweats xenomorph acid apparently.

            I am pursuing other career options as a result. I don't want to work in a space suit, and my co-workers don't need or deserve the hassle. I don't really want to work around some of that stuff anyway.

            You lab rats earn the cheddar.

      2. imanidiot Silver badge

        Re: How would the paratroopers prevent the destruction?

        Don't even need artillery shells. I (And I suspect many other of my fellow engineers involved in the maintenance of these machines) could take out an operation EUV system to nearly beyond economic repair in a few seconds with nothing but a Torx 25 screwdriver and the strategic press of an override button if I had physical access and the need or mandate to do so. Without the litho machines, the rest of the systems are entirely useless anyway.

        But as stated, even IF the CCP managed to capture TSMC fabs intact, there's no way they can keep those systems operational without western support and cooperation.

    2. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

      well more sensibly

      There, given the possibility of said paratroopers being not at all beyond possibility. I would hope the Taiwan govt would have insisted the all installations of likely interest to china would have built in facilities for large quantities of explosive to be placed in foundations for effective demolition on hours of notice, rock up with two lorries,place bangy-bangys wire up detonators, test circuits, clear the area and whamo no more fab/hydro electric dam motorway bridge/steelworks etc etc.

      Nothing new see Belgian bridges over the Albert canal pre ww2 and Swiss arrangements to effectivly close road and rail access to large chunks of Switzerland with explosive landslides and dropping clifs etc.

      just sayin like...

  6. Danny 2

    Smart investment

    the island has 48 per cent of the global foundry market and 61 per cent of the world's capacity to fabricate chips using a 16nm process node or smaller

    It's a life-jacket, it's a bullet-proof vest, it's a force-field.

    I'll just point out Arizona used to have it's own foundry's that were outsourced to the far-east to save on salaries. Often Capitalism ties it's own shoelaces together.

    1. stiine Silver badge

      Re: Smart investment

      And then proceeds to put them on, and only then nail them to the floor...

    2. An_Old_Dog Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Pepperidge Farm Remembers ...

      ... when America used to manufacture RAM chips.

      Me: "Excuse me Mr. Capitalist, but remember RAM is national security-relevant materiel. It is foolish to abandon our capabilities to make those things."

      Capitalists: "Fuck Motorola, and fuck you, too. There's more money to be made elsewhere."

      I know, I know. "And get off my lawn ..."

    3. Trigun

      Re: Smart investment

      And that's my frustration with capitalism, unless it's moderated at least a bit. It's deeply unwise to allow your industry and critical infrstructure be controlled by your rival(s).

      Such a pity that the UK is so busy concentrating on the services sector (which is indeed important) that it completely ignores this. We need manufacturing for some things back in the country if possible and now that we're not in the EU we have more freedom to do this.

      1. Peter2 Silver badge

        Re: Smart investment

        It's moves beyond "deeply unwise" to outright idiotic. ;)

        However, while the service sector gets a lot of PR, people lose sight of the fact that Britain is the 5th largest economy in the world, and the 9th largest manufacturer in the world.

        This is mostly because of a strong pound which encourages imports and makes other countries buying our own products (in many cases) uncompetitively expensive.

  7. martinusher Silver badge

    China / Tiawan is a bit more complicated

    There was an article in our regional paper (Los Angeles Times) recently about the background to a church shooting at a Chinese church. This article talked about Formosa (Taiwan) being both an island and under Japanese occupation for so long that it had evolved a distinct culture and language. After 1949 the Koumintang (KMT) government retreated to Formosa and effectively acted as an invading force, taking over the island and repressing its population and its culture. This was, obviously, 'then' and over the years things settled down somewhat and the government eventually became 'democratic' but the wounds are still there, especially among older people. This background explained (but obviously didn't justify) the shooting.

    The takeaway from this is that the popular narrative of 'them' (communist, authoritarian) and 'us' (democratic,free) isn't quite how it is in real life. Taiwan is historically a province of China but its probably got about the same relationship with the mainland as Ireland has with the rest of the United Kingdom.

    As for the economist, I tend to dismiss statements like this using the notion "They have their Republicans, too". (...and their Bannons and probably their version of QAnon for all I know)

    1. llaryllama

      Re: China / Tiawan is a bit more complicated

      Taiwan was an ignored and unloved province of imperial China from the late 1600s to late 1800s. There is a much, much longer history of prior settlement by indigenous peoples and the ROC is a few decades older than the PRC.

      Chinese and Taiwanese share some common language - like the US and Britain - but are culturally very different - also like the US and Britain.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: China / Tiawan is a bit more complicated

      Also the Chinese intelligence has been running hits and attacks up and down the west coast targeting people of Taiwanese decent, as well as us citizens of Chinese decent. I wouldn't take that time article at face value as they hadn't done enough digging to asses the bigger picture of the attack and it's motives. I wonder where alot of the stuff that landed in that guys social media feed came from.

      And again, as others her point out so well, the whole Formosa/KMT era was blink in the eye of a longer history, even if it was somewhat recent. It's just not a rational reason to shoot up a church in another country over the actions of a 100 year old political movement, at least by itself.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    However, she then claimed the US was seeking to isolate China

    No, China is doing it themselves. Just look at how it is treating Australia, how it is trying to get pacific nations into a debt trap (and has succeeded with some). China is acting like a nasty school yard bully.

    Those actions are causing it to be isolated.

  9. Tubz Silver badge

    If China invaded, took over Taiwan and recovery unviable, TSMC and other major sites would be raised to the ground by America in seconds.

  10. Jonjonz

    As Vladimire has shown, in today's world powerful despots have pretty much free reign to grab what ever real estate they like on thier borders, and the rest of the world will just whine, bitch, employ more shunning while generally forsaking the humans lost in the grab.

  11. This post has been deleted by its author

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