back to article Brute force and whiskey: The solution to all life's problems

Welcome back to Who, Me?, where this week a reader tells us how they used brute force and whiskey to solve a pyrotechnic problem. Our story comes from a fellow Regomized as "Rick" and concerns a launch campaign using sounding rockets from a European test site. Sounding rockets can't make it to orbit, but can carry scientific …

  1. Anonymous South African Coward Bronze badge
    Holmes

    Rockets...

    I will rather leave the planning, design and launching of rockets over to experts.

    Or rednecks who tend to try and use their butt as a launching platform for small fireworks which is launched like a rocket.

    1. b0llchit Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Rockets...

      I will rather leave the ... over to experts.

      And subsequently be shanghaied to pull the plug while launching :-)

    2. Tom 7

      Re: Rockets...

      I was in the town of Malcesine on Lake Garda when they had a festival. They simply held the sticks of rockets in their hands to launch them. Hundreds of men were doing this - possibly due to the rather nice 12p a bottle RIcc.io Rosso Spumante local red champagne with a plastic cork. Never quite had the guts to try it myself despite seeing so many people doing it without any signs of injury.

      1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
        Alien

        Re: Rockets...

        In the excellent film 'Attack the Block'* (John Boyega in his first starring role, I believe, and Jodie Foster in her pre-Dr. Who days), the 'lads' use firework rockets, launched by hand, horizontally along corridors as weapons**.

        *WARNING, realistic dialogue, including swearing, some unrealistic violence, drug taking and some realistic commentary on social conditions in the UK.

        **DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME (OR ANYWHERE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER).

        1. DJO Silver badge

          Re: Rockets...

          I don't think the Dr Who production team could afford Jodie Foster, you meant Jodie Whittaker.

          1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: Rockets...

            My stupidity has struck again.

            You are correct, but on the other hand, Jodie Foster is sort of still in her 'pre Dr Who' career stage and Sigourney weaver did partake in the sitcom 'Doc Martin' with Martin Clunes, so one can but hope.

            1. DS999 Silver badge

              Re: Rockets...

              If someday Jodie Foster is announced as the new doctor, then you can claim you predicted back in 2022!

              1. Eclectic Man Silver badge

                Re: Rockets...

                You don't happen to have her agent's phone number, do you?

    3. John Sager

      Re: Rockets...

      I saw a tale a few years ago of a guy who used a cardboard mortar on his head to launch a starshell, with predictable results. I did a few sums and came to the conclusion that the impulse on launch is getting on for a tonne for a few milliseconds!

      1. HammerOn1024

        Re: Rockets...

        Pesky Newton and his Laws!

        1. cmdrklarg

          Re: Rockets...

          Eh, I never studied law.

          1. Eclectic Man Silver badge

            Re: Rockets...

            Then order your helmet gun now!

            https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/military-helmet-gun-albert-pratt/

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why a "retired farmer"?

    Except being in some cruel minds "expendable" - was an old man better suited to the task, than one of the technicians?

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

      Indeed, that is a fair question.

      A young man with full knowledge of what was going on would certainly have run faster than some poor old coot.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

        Yup. He'd have run faster at the very suggestion.

    2. Arthur the cat Silver badge

      Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

      In Academia it would have been a postgrad.

      1. Ian Johnston Silver badge

        Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

        They've started using postgrads instead of rats for clinical trials.

        There's less chance of getting attached to them and there are some things rats just won't do.

        1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

          "They've started using postgrads instead of rats for clinical trials."

          In the UK I suspect that undergraduates, as they pay for their tuition, are subject to contract law and the University has a legal 'duty of care' for their wellbeing. Graduate students, on the other hand, usually have grants, and, well, lets just say that the University needs as many to complete on time as possible, unless there are extenuating circumstances (such as untimely demise) ...

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

            After a case where a chemistry PhD student decided to heat something amusingly reactive on an open flame and blew a fume cupboard into his stomach.

            So HSE ruled that grad students were public not employees, which caused a whole can of worms about IP. We had to have IP assignments to use any software they wrote.

            With everyone convinced they were going to be the Steve Jobs and every uni convinced that they were going to make $$$ from startups - it got a bit fraught

            1. Anne Hunny Mouse

              Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

              In my days as a Chemistry Postgrad, we were classed as employees from a H&S perspective.

              This meant attending a 2 hour Fire Safety Lecture about the University Fire System each year...

              Only 5 minutes was relevant as the Chemistry Building had a separate fire system.

              1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

                Or if you are in the windy swamp university that house the British Antarctic Survey you go to the course on handling cryogenics and get a cool lecture on gruesome frostbite from being stuck in crevasses.

                1. Wally Dug

                  Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

                  What's that? Frostbite in your crevices?

                  1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
                    Unhappy

                    Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

                    When Sir Ranulph Fiennes trekked across Antarctica, his companion, who had been circumcised as a baby developed frostbite on his 'honourable member'.

                2. Eclectic Man Silver badge

                  Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

                  Two sorts of people have proper jobs in Antarctica:

                  Scientists (also known as 'Beakers' after the character in the Muppet Show).

                  And mountaineers, whose job is to keep the Beakers alive and as un-frostbitten as possible when on field trips.

                  Read 'Terra Incognita, Travels in Antarctica' by Sara Wheeler (ISBN 0-224-14184-3) for some insights on Italian coffee machines, darts matches (dartboard optional) and 'giving tent weather'.

                  (OK so there are also pilots for the aircraft and probably other sorts of people, but in general...)

                  1. mtp

                    Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

                    Beaker and proud of it. Froze my fingertips a few times though - nasty blisters :-(

                  2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

                    Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

                    I suspect chefs would be the most valued employees.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

        60 years ago at secondary school our young chemistry teacher took our class (13-14) outside onto the lawn to demonstrate the thermite reaction. A cone of the chemicals was set up - with a magnesium strip protruding from the top as the starter.

        The clas formed a circle round the pile - and the teacher then lit a match and applied it to the strip. It was a windy day - and the match flame was blown out. He then had the class form a tighter circle as a windbreak. As soon as the lit match approached the strip - the boys skittered away and the wind blew the flame out. He finally persuaded the circle to stay intact until the strip ignited for what was in those days a relatively spectacular Vesuvius firework.

        The grounds-keeper was not impressed by the scorch mark on the lawn.

        1. John Sager

          Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

          I did that in my teenage pyro phase. A mate started work at a company making interior door handles for cars. As the colours had to match they had a warehouse full of pigments and yes, you guessed it, finely divided Al and ferric oxide. We filled a paint tin with a stoichiometric mixture. However fine powder traps a lot of air and we couldn't remove it - no vacuum pump. Anyway we lit the Mg ribbon & stood well back. Of course the trapped air expanded mightily so we got a magnificent sparkly fire fountain. Then the tin melted and we had molten iron running over the ground from the reaction & the tin. Lots of fun without the tell-tale bangs from other experiments...

          Of course we would be arrested for that under anti-terrorism legislation these days. I assume there is a statute of limitations...

          1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

            I remember the thermite reaction being demonstrated at school, but we were inside. They never did get the burn mark off the ceiling.

            (I'm not unhappy, just this is the most appropriate icon available -------------------------^)

        2. Potty Professor
          Mushroom

          Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

          I was standing at a lathe beside the window of the Metalwork room at school, when the Science Sixth trooped out with a wastepaper basket full of sand containing some explosive experiment or other. They placed it against the blank brick end wall of the Science Block, which was four storeys tall, and stood around in a circle while the lecturer explained what was going to happen. They then all moved down into the basement area of the Engineering Block while the lecturer lit the fuse and ran to join them. Fizzle - Pop! - small expression of smoke.

          The following week, repeat performance, and the next, and the next. By the end of term, they were so blase about the danger that they all just stood around in a rough circle to see what would happen, if anything. Then - on the last week of term, it did happen.

          There was an enormous bang, and a cloud of black soot expanded rapidly, knocking the students over onto their backs, and causing a large scorch mark up the brick wall. The wastepaper basket had been opened up like a flower, with individual petals sprouting from the circular base, and every one of the party was black with soot down their fronts. A cloud of finely divided sand drifted slowly away on the prevailing breeze.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

      "We have a potential solution, but it's too dangerous. Let's bribe a clueless local yokel to do it instead!"

    4. NXM Silver badge

      Re: Why a "retired farmer"?

      Because old farmers absolutely don't care about health & safety.

      Booting a stuck bale in the baler and nearly losing a leg? Eating too quickly so you can get back out and do more stuff, then having to have a chicken bone surgically removed from your throat? Smoking a ciggy while going along in a car you've just spilled a load of petrol in? Putting the diesel tank in a barn next to a dodgey mains socket?

      All things my father-in-law did, and survived. The barn didn't though.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Smells and not of whisky...

    Did the farmer take his prize bull up onto the gantry as well? I ask because this story is so full of BS I wouldn't be the least surprised.

    1. Jaspa
      Trollface

      Re: Smells and not of whisky...

      If he did, that would explain the price of Beef "skyrocketing."

      Thats the best you'll get from me on a monday :)

      1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Smells and not of whisky...

        The steaks were just too high

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: Smells and not of whisky...

          It would behoove you not to tell such rib-ticklers.

          1. Wally Dug

            Re: Smells and not of whisky...

            If you have a beef, take it up with the management.

            1. Major N

              Re: Smells and not of whisky...

              and try not to mince your words

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Coat

                Re: Smells and not of whisky...

                If there was a leak of liquid oxygen then the bull would be Friesian!!

            2. Francis Boyle Silver badge

              Re: Smells and not of whisky...

              I don't know about your beef but I'm pretty sure someone was telling porkies.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Smells and not of whisky...

      Did the farmer take the bull up to the platform? Probably not, those pre-launch umbilicals are usually for ground based instrumentation needs.

      I'd say yes he did if he had to interface with the guidence system of the rocket. You know... the steering system.

  4. jake Silver badge

    Sounds like ...

    ... one of the stories some biker friends might preface with "This ain't no shit ... ".

  5. Wyrdness

    Feck!

    There are a couple of things to note here. First is that it's described as 'a European test site' (so probably not UK) and, secondly, the spelling of whiskey.

    Now read the story again, this time with Father Ted in mind. It all makes sense now.

    1. Red Sceptic

      Re: Feck!

      So that would be an ecumenical matter!

      1. slimshady76
        Coat

        Re: Feck!

        In Trent Reznor's words, "You get me closer to God"...

        Mine is the one with the Love & Rockets CD in the inner pocket.

        1. KarMann Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Feck!

          Is that the one titled Love & Rockets, or just one of those by Love & Rockets?

          Mine's the Bubbleman suit.

  6. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Launch

    They wouldn't let some random farmer onto a launch site, not without clearance and insurance.

    Probably the actual launch was in Rick's head after he downed that bottle, then a farmer found him in the barn naked cuddling a rake.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Launch

      As a previous commenter notes it was a European launch site. I'm wondering if was French Guyana (technically France, so technically technically European) where things may be a bit more relaxed, especially in days of yore.

      1. UCAP Silver badge

        Re: Launch

        More likely it is the sounding rocket launch range in north Sweden (Esrange).

      2. Xalran

        Re: Launch

        It wouldn't have been Whisky, it would have been Rhum.

        And before moving to French Guyana, the launch site was in Algeria... No way a local would have gone for whisky.

        I'd go for Scotland, long, long, long, long ago.

        1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

          Re: Launch

          I'd go for Scotland

          If you went to Scotland and offered someone whiskey then you almost certainly would get a rocket up you.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Launch

            Didn't the UK have a test range in Oz?

            Compared to the dangerous creatures at ground level going up a snake/croc/spider free gantry to a running rocket seems like a safer option

            1. UCAP Silver badge

              Re: Launch

              Yep, Woomera Prohibited Area (now RAAF Woomera Range Complex). Its from there that the UK launched the Black Arrow rocket (UK designed & built) that put the Prospero satellite into orbit, making the UK only the third country to successfully place a satellite in orbit using our own launcher.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Launch

                ...and also making the UK the only country to have and then abandon a successful space programme complete with own launcher.

                1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

                  Re: Launch

                  We don't like success.

          2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Launch

            I'm not sure the spelling shows in speech?

  7. Data Mangler

    Narrowing it down

    A bit of sleuthing is required to determine the veracity of this story. Firstly. there is the mention of turbo pumps. In my mind this suggests that the rocket was liquid fuelled. The great British success in sounding rockets was the Skylark which was, I believe, solid fuelled, so I think this rules out the Skylark. Similarly, the Canadian Black Brant was solid fuelled. There's the V2, of course, but what other liquid fuelled sounding rockets were there?

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Narrowing it down

      Good point. Sounding rockets are all solid fueled in an attempt to to keep dumb-assed scientists from hurting themselves (or so said an ex-military guy I knew at Moffett Field, who was involved with such things for NASA in the '70s and '80s).

      I suspect it's more an expense thing ...

      1. Peter Mount
        Mushroom

        Re: Narrowing it down

        Going by some of the early history of the JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory) that probably has more truth to it.

        https://web.archive.org/web/20161004144451/http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/jplhistory/early/index.php

        Four times that day they tried to test fire their small rocket motor. On the last attempt, they accidentally set fire to their oxygen line, which whipped around shooting fire! These were the first rocket experiments in the history of JPL. They tried again on Nov. 15, 1936, and their experiment finally worked.

        1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

          Re: Narrowing it down

          set fire to their oxygen line, which whipped around shooting fire!

          I would have bought tickets to watch that

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Narrowing it down

      I'm pretty sure there was at a time liquid fueled rockets (using a locally produced propellant) in Eire & Scotland

  8. Greybearded old scrote Silver badge
    Joke

    Should have held out for a bigger bribe.

    Whatever Meatloaf and Jim Steinman said, two out of three doesn't quite cut it.

    1. Evil Scot
      Joke

      Re: Should have held out for a bigger bribe.

      I'll do any thing for science.

      But I won't do that.

  9. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    Screw that I'm not doing it

    heading to a nearby village and finding a retired farmer willing to take some chances

    I'm having real trouble envisioning this.

    Guy in white coat pops into country pub and says:

    "Hi Everyone , I'm from the rocket site down the road , we need a volunteer to stand next to the rocket and unplug a cable when we blast off .

    We asked around in the office but no one is stupid / mad enough to do it , so .... here I am "

    1. Adrian 4

      Re: Screw that I'm not doing it

      "Hi Everyone , I'm from the rocket site down the road , we need a volunteer to stand next to the rocket and unplug a cable when we blast off .

      No, he starts with 'Who wants some free whiskey ?"

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: Screw that I'm not doing it

        A new definition of "free".

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Disappointed...

    that nobody has pointed out that the solution wasn't rocket science...

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The solution to the problem wasn't exactly rocket science!

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This smells of something...

    ... that the farmer was shovelling

  13. cd

    The farmer's name...

    ...was Guff, Farmer Guff

  14. Swarthy
    Boffin

    Hmmm

    Shirley a better solution (well, solvent) would have been to use the Whisky to clean the corrosion? or Isopropyl.

    1. Charlie van Becelaere

      Re: Hmmm

      That's what I was expecting to read.

      Shameful waste of whisky (or whiskey for that matter), but better than setting retired farmers alight.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Hmmm

      Drink the whiskey & use Electrolube on the contacts. If the contacts were so corroded surely they weren't going to get a good signal through them.

  15. yetanotheraoc Silver badge

    Thank goodness for small favors

    "having forgotten his promise to drink the whiskey after, and not before, the launch"

    It could have been worse. He could have forgotten his promise not to smoke the cigarettes until after the launch.

  16. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
    Coat

    Are You Guys Still Hung Over After Some Four Day Party or Something.......

    Nobody came up with a reference to Whiskey & Rockets Galore!

    That is all - Getting my white rocket scientists coat.

    1. GlenP Silver badge

      Re: Are You Guys Still Hung Over After Some Four Day Party or Something.......

      Except that would be Whisky without the e, Compton Mackenzie being Scottish of course. :)

      Yes, I've read the books and seen the films (all three, a rare time when the remake matched, or possibly improved on, the original). No, I didn't make the connection!

  17. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

    Come on. I make up better war stories than this in the comments practically every week...

  18. Joe W Silver badge

    The linked story to that wannabe rocket company

    No wonder they messed up the safety stuff. They don't even have a clue about the stories they are referring to. Columbus was considered crazy because he thought the globe was way smaller (10000km circumference rather than the 40000km)than people at that time already knew about. Had he not been lucky and the Americas had in his way they would all have died. Geez.

    1. Joe W Silver badge

      Re: The linked story to that wannabe rocket company

      And they should have referenced Scott, not Amundsen.

      Scott became famous for freezing to death in Antarctica

      Columbus is remembered for thinking some island was India

      General Custer's a national hero for not knowing when to run

      All of these men are famous

      And they're also kind of dumb

      (the Arrogant Worms)

    2. Vincent Ballard

      Re: The linked story to that wannabe rocket company

      He claimed to believe that. Whether he did, or whether it was a convenient fiction to cover up the fact that he knew there was land because he'd been told about it by Basque fishermen is still debated AFAIK.

  19. Daedalus

    Hmmmm

    This sounds a bit like the old joke about the pig, the cork, and the monkey

  20. the Jim bloke
    Boffin

    Sounds like the filming of the original Highlander movie

    For the Scots clan battles, the extras were locals who were paid with booze.

    Supposedly some serious injuries resulted.

    Icon for Christopher Lambert, whose vision was so poor he was doing all the fight scenes by memory.

  21. Kane
    Alien

    Brute Force and Whiskey?

    This came to mind...

  22. ThomEM

    My thesis advisor was David S Evans (RIP) of NOAA Space Environment Lab. He supervised my project involving the launch of a particle mass spectrometer on a sounding rocket above the aurora. On many previous launch expeditions, he found that bringing liquor into Scandinavia was problematic, so he developed a creative approach to the problem. He loaded some translucent plastic bottles with ethanol (Everclear) doctored with food colouring and labeled them "circuit board cleaner", which was truthful to a fault. There can be quite a few idle arctic nights between the preparation of the payload for launch and the arrival of the right conditions for said launch and certain diversions and entertainments ensue.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Clearly not in the U.S.

    If it had been in the U.S., it would have started with “hold my beer and watch this…”

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