UK opens up 'high-potential individual route' for tech worker immigration

The UK has begun a fast-track visa scheme for tech workers graduating from a list of top 50 universities worldwide. Critics, however, maintain the scheme will fail to compensate for the barriers erected to tech recruitment from the EU as a result of Brexit. Announcing the "high-potential individual route", which started from …

[Little Mouse]

I've spent my time jobbing around the globe, and loved every minute of it. I'm all for removing barriers for entry for people who bring real value to the table by virtue of their skills and work ethic.

When it comes to attracting suitable talent to the UK, I see no sense in limiting the candidate pool to a few select universities. That just smells of yet more elitism and "jobs for the boys" from BJ's intimate circle.

[Peter2]

When it comes to attracting suitable talent to the UK, I see no sense in limiting the candidate pool to a few select universities.

It's not. There's already a points based system in place and it's set up so that anybody with a specific job offer being paid more than the industry average wage will get in, but they had to pay for the visa up front, as well as a "healthcare surcharge" which is obviously there to remove the possibility of freeloading on the NHS.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-immigration-system-what-you-need-to-know#skilled-workers

Presumably this new avenue eliminates the requirement for the specific job offer, on the not unreasonable expectation that anybody from a handful of top level universities will be paid more than the average industry wage anyway.

I'm not really sure whom (other than major employers) wants the requirement for "must be paid more than the average industry wage" to be deleted more generally, since it would simply enable employers to force our wages down.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

>remove the possibility of freeloading on the NHS.

So they aren't paying any tax or NI?

In fact the NHS is freeloading off them. They will be paying top rates of tax which will go to the NHS care of the elderly, where nearly all health spending goes. Young graduates aren't a drain on the NHS whatever their skin colour

[Cederic]

Once they're here, yes. However it does mitigate against a health tourist taking a job purely to get access to medical treatment they couldn't afford at home.

Many Americans, for instance.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

If they're Americans with life-threatening/-limiting problems that they can't afford to get treated at home, then we should probably be granting them asylum anyway: they'd be at a clear risk of harm in their own country.

[Dave@Home]

With respect, that's bollocks Sir

My wife is American and is currently working her way to Citizenship via ILR.

She's paid a small fortune in NHS surcharges on top of her Tax and NI contributions, and like the rest of us can't get near a GP for love nor money.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: With respect, that's bollocks Sir

Any american that qualifies for this visa is going to see a massive drop in medical care coming to the UK.

Medical costs in the US are insane and options really suck if you are poor, black and/or live in Alabama.

But if you have a Stanford CS PhD and work for a FAANG with their medical insurance - then moving to London is going to be a bit of a surprise when you sprain your ankle playing squash and expect to get an MRI on the NHS within an hour.

[martinusher]

Re: With respect, that's bollocks Sir

...and if you are truly indigent in California then insurance is effectively free. (Yes, I know people on this.)

American health care comes in all sorts of flavors. The worst situation, but one that's beloved by traditionalists in backwards states is 'fee for service'. With or without insurance its a crapshoot -- costs are uncontained and uncontrolled. At the other end of the scale you've got HMOs, vertically integrated systems that are a bit like the NHS before attempts were made to make it more business-like. Floating somewhere in the middle are PPOs, they're increasingly offering 'narrow networks' which resemble the modern NHS with its provider trusts.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: With respect, that's bollocks Sir

It's crazy - I pay a small fortune in taxes and get little in return and had no other choice but use private healthcare which I had to pay another small fortune for.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Re: With respect, that's bollocks Sir

I say that's bollocks. You have a choice. Despite the Tories' best efforts, the NHS isn't struggling that much.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: With respect, that's bollocks Sir

What do you mean? I can opt out from paying taxes and use that money for healthcare that actually delivers?

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Re: With respect, that's bollocks Sir

In the UK, nobody has "no other choice but use private healthcare". You're just lucky enough to be able to afford it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: With respect, that's bollocks Sir

You clearly have not had to use the NHS. Many of my friends had to go private to get seen at all. The NHS propaganda in the UK rivals Russia's. In reality, most of the rest of Europe has better medical provision and most of those countries are tax-payer funded as well...

Think about it: I can get a same day GP appointment in Germany. Waiting lists length are controlled only by how long before enough people give up or die waiting.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Re: With respect, that's bollocks Sir

My experience: I had a small issue with my heart last year. I spoke to a doctor on the phone that morning, saw them that afternoon for physical checks, and I had comprehensive blood tests taken the following day. Within a few weeks, I'd had a full echocardiogram at my local hospital, which thankfully showed no problems. This is just one example – I've had other similar experiences, as have many people I know.

[anonymous boring coward]

You really have bought into this nonsense that the NHS is special, haven't you?

[NoneSuch]

BREXIT Smoke and Mirrors

Don't look at the crippling economic damage being done by a moronic decision based on lies, or our cabbage patch PM lying about parties at No. 10, look at our new economy boosting policies instead!

Re-join the EU and all this horse manure goes away, people get their jobs back and visa free EU travel is restored. Then we need to send all the politicians who put us in this position to Rockall as an example to others.

[Cederic]

Re: BREXIT Smoke and Mirrors

Sure. Rejoin the EU with its 25% youth unemployment in Spain and several million refugees in Poland, none of whom we have the infrastructure to support in the UK (because it's been overwhelmed by the illegal immigrants crossing the channel without papers).

People get their jobs back? Which people? The three million EU citizens in the UK in 2016? Sorry but five and a half million EU citizens applied for and were granted indefinite leave to remain in the UK so those three million EU citizens will be losing their jobs to other EU citizens already, let alone any new arrivals.

Or perhaps you mean British people, who are faced with a record number of job vacancies. Which would go to cheap EU immigrants if we rejoined the EU, lowering wages for British people at a time of very high inflation - across Europe, including the UK and the EU. Maybe you missed lorry drivers getting pay rises once cheap foreign labour stopped being so easily available.

The economy is being destroyed by insanely high tax rates being used to fund the damaging COVID polices of previous years and the disastrous 'net zero' policies of the present, with the so-called green levy now costing households hundreds of pounds a year while so-called green energy fails miserably to meet demands. Oh, and the continual quantitative easing, which has led to very high levels of inflation (which isn't a global problem - countries that maintained fiscal control aren't suffering high inflation, despite the current cost of oil).

By all means vote out the current Government for those reasons. Just stop bleating on about supposed lies about a 9 minute long "party" in which someone was surprised in their place of work by other people wanting to wish them a happy birthday. You could at least mention the other politicians that travelled halfway across the country to have an alcohol fueled party with people they don't work with, that weren't in their social bubble, and that they've lied on multiple times about.

[anonymous boring coward]

Re: BREXIT Smoke and Mirrors

Stop watching right-wing media. Your brain is rotting.

[elsergiovolador]

I'm not really sure whom (other than major employers) wants the requirement for "must be paid more than the average industry wage"

Something like this could enable Rishi to import IT workers from India en masse for his wife's Infosys.

[SW10]

It's all fizz, pop, and bang

I see no sense in limiting the candidate pool to a few select universities

Because it's all fizz, pop, and bang.

How many people graduating from those Top 50 universities are going to want to enter the UK?

It's like having a door policy that allows trainers - provided you wear Louis Vuitton

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: It's all fizz, pop, and bang

Have they considered exit visas, to solve the skills shortage?

Asking as a Cambridge PhD graduate enjoying the West Coast life rather than working in London being paid less than a tube driver.

[NewModelArmy]

Re: It's all fizz, pop, and bang

That always made me laugh. Working for a large corporation where HR drove down wages by no pay rises, seeing Tube drivers begin to earn more than myself, made me realise that a masters degree and experience were no benefit in earning more. Yet the IET survey showed that i was being underpaid.

In addition to that, obtaining chartered engineer status was difficult quite simply due to the roles and responsibility available to meet the grade were very limited, and they did not want you to perform anything different to the position you held. No progression, sadly.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: It's all fizz, pop, and bang

Let's become tube drivers and pressure government to start digging more tunnels!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: It's all fizz, pop, and bang

>It's like having a door policy that allows trainers - provided you wear Louis Vuitton

Probably not a problem for someone who regularly shops at TK Maxx...

[elsergiovolador]

Re: It's all fizz, pop, and bang

The top universities are dead set on woke culture and Marxism. Government just saying that they want ideologically correct candidates.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: It's all fizz, pop, and bang

Yes MIT switched 6.0001 from Scheme to Python because of Lenin

[anonymous boring coward]

Re: It's all fizz, pop, and bang

I know! Universities are cesspools of people who wants to be nice and decent to others. It should be stopped, really.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: It's all fizz, pop, and bang

>Universities are cesspools of people who wants to be nice and decent to others

But Harvard made the list

[Hubert Cumberdale]

I hope they find some way to ground these high-potential individuals before they let them near any sensitive equipment.

[Warm Braw]

Would they then qualify only as bright sparks?

[NewModelArmy]

High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

Wasn't the slogan of "High Tech, High Wage, High Employment" economy targeted at UK people becoming those high tech high wage people ?

Now we see that it is about the corporations or companies benefiting from that policy, and the UK people being sidelined and conned by the Tories.

No one ever saw that coming (except red wall voters).

[Mike 137]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

The fundamental problem is that the UK education system has become so inadequate that we just don't have enough of our own people of the required real standard to fill the vacancies.

Instead of actually improving standards, UK educators have allowed massive grade inflation - in the last 20 years or so, the proportion of first class honours degrees awarded has risen from around 7% to almost a quarter, although a House of Lords enquiry a few years back elicited responses from lecturers stating that they had been 'arm twisted' by faculty administration to award firsts contrary to their personal judgement of the standards attained. However the problem goes back much further than the last couple of decades. Originally, honours were gained by an additional year at university, but for a long time now they're just a universal label for any degree other than a marginal pass.

The aim of our education system has essentially become awarding certificates, not ensuring knowledge and understanding have been imparted, and certificates are seen as passports to employment, not proof of capacities. Given this approach to education, it's not surprising that we need to seek expertise from elsewhere. I speak from bitter experience, as a science worker and educator.

[VoiceOfTruth]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

-> The fundamental problem is that the UK education system has become so inadequate

How true is it that a 'GCSE A level' or whatever it is called today is in practical terms worth about a GCE O level from 40 years ago?

-> a few years back elicited responses from lecturers stating that they had been 'arm twisted' by faculty administration to award firsts

I had a conversation a while back with a university lecturer. I don't know who they were talking about, only the circumstances. They were going to fail a student because they weren't good enough and it was obvious that somebody else was writing their papers for them. I call it cheating. Oh the stink that was raised.

[Peter2]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

It's hardly surprising. When the education sector became an industry that the end user was paying for it became somewhere between "easier" to "inevitable" that people could and would decato buy better grades, if only because people want to go to the place that stands the best chance of obtaining the best grade at the lowest cost.

I would suggest that the number of talented people out there remains the same despite the shortcomings of the education system; an educated idiot remains an idiot at the end of their education, just with a greater knowledgebase.

Given that the internet has obliterated even the barriers of the printing press (ie; the cost of books containing knowledge) which the Victorians had tried to work around by creating public libraries, a huge number of people now have access to the materials to educate themselves, and some have even used this rather than watching cute kitten videos &c.

Many people have educated themselves in particular subjects, often to a considerably higher standard over the course of decades than universities could possibly aspire to impart in a couple of years, and yet on paper are utterly unqualified.

The crying need of the 21st century is a system to recognise and certify the knowledge of these people, and I hope you'll forgive me if I suggest that arguments about the qualitive output of two year courses from 10th and 11th century universities appears somewhat academic to the majority of us.

[anonymous boring coward]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

"an educated idiot remains an idiot at the end of their education"

See: Eton

[hoola]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

And this is the fundamental problem, education has been afflicted by the constant trend that "nobody must" fail.

The result is a constant inflation of grades helped along by the obsession with targets.

The only thing that matters to schools, colleges and universities are the statistics that show x% achieve A******** or a "First".

That the numbers getting these has increased whilst the reality is that the actual knowledge has decreased. Now add in all the issues with fees and the problem is compounded. If a student has paid upwards of £27k for their degree, they feel entitled to get something at the end of it.

Now add in that STEM subjects are eschewed in favour of waffle like Business Studies and all the stuff associated with university "Schools of Management" because they are seen as relatively easy and crucially, are highly profitable for the institution.

Science subjects are expensive and need specialised facilities, soft subjects that spew out endless reams of Management graduate drones are not.

It is not coincidence that many of the students on the challenging science courses are not from the UK but are international.

Blair's mantra that 50% of young people must go to university and the impact of fees has done nothing to make things better, in reality if has actually lowered standards and commoditised degrees to the point that they are of limited value.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

To be fair... if grades A/B/C are considered "pass" and lower is a "fail", then realistically most people will end up getting them because most people will deserve to at least pass...

[TechGeekUK]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

Hit the nail on the head there agree 100%

[J.G.Harston]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

"we just don't have enough of our own people of the required real standard to fill the vacancies."

No, our employers just point blank refuse to pay for the talent. It's there if they're prepared to pay for it, but all too many aren't.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

That's the facile answer, but if the employer is competing with Facebook, to take one example from the article, for the attention of the one qualified candidate, the choice as an employer is to pay a salary you cannot afford (but Facebook can, and they like hoarding good devs to stop the competition from taking off) or not hire the one qualified candidate.

Either way, they're screwed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

Salaries are less fair than you seem to think. It's how little you can pay any one person and get away with it (you'd be surprised at how comfortable people get, and how easy it is to get away with below-inflation rises). After all the other junk that you have to pay for to hire someone (office space, tax, equipment) the salary actually isn't too much of an issue.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

> Salaries are less fair than you seem to think. It's how little you can pay any one person and get away with it

Thankfully I am the employer not (I sincerely hope) you.

I assure you that cheaping out on employee compensation is the furthest thing in my mind, Not only it is immoral, but if you pay peanuts you get people like yourself.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: High Tech, High Wage Economy ?

The fundamental problem is that the UK education system has become so inadequate that we just don't have enough of our own people of the required real standard to fill the vacancies.

Why young people would bother with education if the wages are low and even if you are a highly paid engineer the times when you could support a family and have a big house with garden and a garage are over?

Plenty of my friends left for South America and Asia, because it is not possible to have a life you would think you would get after putting all the effort. It's just not worth it anymore.

[Anonymous Coward]

Immigration Lawyer Advert?

Is this a sponsored article? Given the link to immigration lawyers for the whitelist(sic) of universities?

[Mr Dogshit]

"London was the tech capital of Europe"

Really?

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: "London was the tech capital of Europe"

For certain areas of tech, the important part is the 'was'

[Cederic]

Re: "London was the tech capital of Europe"

I'm not sure London was ever the tech capital of the UK.

The M4 corridor, Edinburgh and (more recently) Cambridge all have far stronger claims.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: "London was the tech capital of Europe"

Perhaps in the Maudslay and Whitworth era

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "London was the tech capital of Europe"

>>Really?

Yes. In 1851.

[Roland6]

Re: "London was the tech capital of Europe"

>Yes. In 1851.

A very brief moment in time, just like England winning the worldcup...

[Pascal Monett]

Sure, blame Brexit

IR35 certainly has no impact, right ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sure, blame Brexit

You cannot even be allowed to kick a traffic cone down the road without now being "Inside IR35", Let alone man a road closure gate on your own, in the middle of the night (in your own personal vehicle at your own expense), a half mile away from the next "employee" all without a radio, in all weathers with god knows who roaming the roads at whatever speed they fancy. you get it all, tooled up county lines drugs couriers in stolen smashed up cars, minibuses full of bearded people all wearing bearskin coats (and hats) on the way back from a Barmittzpha, the odd plod on a bike. All lost in the mess of multiple overlapping diversions and thoroughly lost and pissed off.

And you call that INSIDE ???

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Sure, blame Brexit

Shh... look how Infosys stock got up after the IR35 changes. Rishi got his wealth doubled. Economy is booming!

[Howard Sway]

So, they believe this mean spirited little list is going to result in a flood of applications?

The government's idea of rolling out the red carpet to talent is to advertise that visa availability is massively limited to graduates from a few universities in a few countries they've decided they like (there is 1 university, Melbourne, on the list from the entire Southern Hemisphere, whilst the USA makes up 40% of it).

These in-demand graduates are then going to have to pay hundreds of pounds to apply for a strictly time limited visa from Priti Patel's Home Office, currently world famous for its "ship all the refugees who turn up here to Rwanda" policy (no Rwandan unis have made the list, nor any other African countries - I wonder why....).

It all seems more designed for domestic newspaper headlines, unless they think that highly qualified, internationally mobile experts are unaware that the government running this scheme cynically whips up xenophobia whenever they think it's politically advantageous, and won't be put off by the fact that the whole scheme demonstrates that.

Still, it's more generous than the new "Global Talent" visa. That's restricted to people who've won Oscars or Nobel Prizes (or, rather pathetically, Brit awards / Baftas).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: So, they believe this mean spirited little list is going to result in a flood of applications?

>These in-demand graduates are then going to have to pay hundreds of pounds to apply for a strictly time limited visa

Not a UK specific requirement.

Try getting a Greencard - unless you have an Irish passport and so can enter the seemingly annual lottery...

Likewise, a friend has just applied (and obtained) an Australian visa, also not cheap...

But remember these are high-potential graduates - they will expect potential employers to pay for the work permit application. A 2~3 year employment constraint which often accompanies such offers, isn't onerous unless you get a total employee-employer mismatch.

[anonymous boring coward]

Re: So, they believe this mean spirited little list is going to result in a flood of applications?

Every time UK is shit, someone has to find an example of something worse. So that makes it ok?

[Anonymous Coward]

Come work from Thailand

Developers don't need to be physically present, a desk, a computer, an internet connection and a coffee machine and you're good. If you're work is knowledge based why would you need the physical presence? Work from home showed that you don't need to be at the office.

If your home is crap, move to a country with lots of beaches, seas, islands, boats, nightlife, cheap accomodation, world class cheap hospitals, cheap internet, mass of things to do at the weekends, and low to no-tax (global income is tax free if its remitted to Thailand, in a tax year after it was earned).

Ahh but you need a visa, and there is a Pritti Patel person to stop you getting one?... well yes there is. Unless you have 15k GBP to simply buy a ‘Privilege Entry Visa’.

https://www.thailandelite.net/priveleges/

In which case, they'll even pick you up from airplane in a golf cart and ferry you round the airport, help you open bank accounts, and sort out paperwork, discounts on all manner of stuff, a service agent to answer questions over the phone who speaks your language.

600,000 baht for the 5 year visa, 1.5 million baht for the 20 year (you can upgrade after 5 years).

So for 233 quid a month you save maybe a grand a month in rent, a couple of grand a month in taxes, maybe a grand in food and eating out, ... I don't know how your finances work out, but its not a lot of money for the benefits.

There's one small fly in the ointment. Your work needs to be outside of Thailand, that doesn't displace or compete with Thai workers, otherwise you'll need a work permit and the digital nomad visa, which is a bit more faffy, with lots of Pritti Patel style mindless details.

See the difference? UK is offering to *slightly*lower* a *few* barriers it erected, for a *few* select individuals who can jump through hoops and prove their worth, vs country just wants high worth individuals bring lots of lovely money into the country.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Come work from Thailand

Do you still get executed at the back of the Police hut once they plant a bag of weed on you and you refuse to pay the bribe?

[anonymous boring coward]

Re: Come work from Thailand

You need to be exceptionally stupid to refuse to pay.

[Velv]

So without the requirements of a sponsor, or even an actual job, one can only assume these high potential individuals are going to rush to obtain their Visa, fly immediately into the UK, and fill the gap of workers we no longer have picking fruit?

[hammarbtyp]

Not nearly enough....

As someone who has been beating his head against a wall for 2 years trying to fill high tech positions in a large international company, these proposals are an improvement, and maybe a step towards the reality of attracting talent, but go no where enough

It used to be that we could attract talent from the EU market. Our team was made of French, Greek, German etc. Since Brexit, that pool has basically dried up, with no one from those areas willing to fight the hurdles to come here, especially when they can work pretty well in the EU with no restrictions.

We do get some interest from India, etc, however those have their own issues. Most candidates have worked for multiple companies on short contracts at a time meaning they are difficult to evaluate in terms of skills, and it is difficult to work out whether the universities degrees are equivalent. However the main issue is that the risks are higher. If we employ someone from India say, the company has to bear the costs of sponsoring the candidate (basically a guarantee they won't become a drain on the state ). This means they are a greater risk, so the company will only employ those at the very top of the technical tree, when what we are missing are the upcoming candidates. These new proposals may help a little, but the risks are still higher than the pre-brexit EU candidate and again only large firms with large HR resources can really manage this. Their is also the suspicion (realistic or otherwise) that the candidates have no interest in actually working for us, but are just looking for work visa, and one obtained will be off. Our business is based on long term knowledge retention, so again this is a risk.

The other problem is that the proposals are more the resource than human in HR. It is the assumption that people are just commodities that can be shipped around the world. However people have relationships. So its great to say that a top graduate can now come to this country to work, but what about their boyfriend/girlfriend? What if they have a wife, can they get a job. Will their kids be allowed to stay once they reach 18? All these are barriers that never used to exist, but are part of the equation that a candidate must consider. Top candidates can pick and choose their jobs, since we are in a competive markets

The other big issue that is maddingly stupid is student visas. Basically the rules for student visa's is that they are only valid when at university. So a foreign graduate comes here, spends 3 to 4 years studying and then cannot get a job in the UK because the visa is no longer valid and they cannot get a work visa. We have had a number of candidates which have had to turn down because their student visas do not allow them to work here. So we get the talent, train them and basically send them packing for other countries to use.

To be honest any proposal from now on, is only going to paper of the cracks of the huge skill shortage in the UK, making us increasingly uncompetitive. My company is multi-national and we have already seen work moving to Germany and France because we cannot attract the talent here. It is just another sign of how the so called party of business had no idea of how the modern world works.

[heyrick]

Re: Not nearly enough....

The party of business? Don't one of them infamously say "fuck business"?

They're just a bunch of xenophobic arseholes they have realised that some outside talent might be required, so they're doing the barest minimum to allow them to grab a few headlines and claim to be doing things that are good for business...when in reality it's more like they've thrown a brick through a window and are trying to fix the damage by sellotaping a single piece of newspaper in one corner.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Not nearly enough....

I think the Conservatives used to be the party of business, but it turns out that doesn't win votes. They just announced paying everyone £600 for fuel bills because - hey, that'll be popular and we won't be around long enough for all the accumulated debt and inflation to be an issue...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Not nearly enough....

>So its great to say that a top graduate can now come to this country to work, but what about their boyfriend/girlfriend? What if they have a wife, can they get a job. Will their kids be allowed to stay once they reach 18?

Top graduates were previously able to come to this country to work, just this allows them to come and LOOK for work with a simpler transition than could be had by using a tourist visa to look for work and then getting a work visa.

Need to get out more.

Exactly the same considerations apply to any graduate from the UK applying for a US greencard or other foreign (eg. EU member) work permit.

These are newly minted graduates from top universities, their boyfriend/girlfriend is likely to also be from one of these universities. They are unlikely to be married or have kids.

>trying to fill high tech positions in a large international company

Not that large, otherwise you would have offices in India and other locations so candidates can be locally vetted and assessed before becoming an internal company transfer to the UK. Also your company needs to investment more in trainees and apprentices..

[hammarbtyp]

Re: Not nearly enough....

"Exactly the same considerations apply to any graduate from the UK applying for a US greencard or other foreign (eg. EU member) work permit.

These are newly minted graduates from top universities, their boyfriend/girlfriend is likely to also be from one of these universities. They are unlikely to be married or have kids."

You are making a lot of assumptions about the graduates. The fact is pre-brexit anyone in Europe could move to the UK and have the same rights as the citizens, now these are restricted and it makes us far less attractive as a destination, never mind the feeling that the country is affected by severe xenophobia. Its engineers is not just graduates we want to attract, but those with 4 or 5 years experience. Yes we have a graduate program and that is the one bright spot, but graduates won't fill all the gaps, we need experienced with real world industry experience and for whatever reason they don't see the UK as an attractive destination. Note this is what we are getting from real world experience not some ideology

Yes we have a office in Chennai. Problem is the company is more likely to hire people there and move the work rather than the cost and expense of sponsoring the engineer to come here. Again its all about risks

Again it is making the UK PLC far less attractive for multi-national corps to setup shop.

"Need to get out more"

I live in the real world not some Ivory tower.

[J.G.Harston]

Re: Not nearly enough....

It's bizzare that the *Conservative* Party are applying standard Marxian economics: restrict the size of the labour pool, which forces the bastard capitalists to compete for workers by increasing workers' pay/benefits/etc. Vote Tory Get Socialism. Can I wake up yet?

[Roland6]

Re: Not nearly enough....

I suggest watching the timely TV series: Lucy Worsley Investigates - The Black Death.

There are interesting parallels, as after the Black death there was a much reduced labour pool. The response of the forebears of the Tory party was the Statute of Labourers 1351 which prohibited the requesting or offering a wage higher than pre-Plague standards and limiting movement in search of better conditions...

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Not nearly enough....

No they are applying Fourth Industrial Revolution of Klaus Schwab. If you have not noticed a fair amount of government works for WEF.

CBDC, UBI, Social Credit Score, serfdom, censorship it's all coming not only in the UK.

[DevOpsTimothyC]

Re: Not nearly enough....

As someone who has been beating his head against a wall for 2 years trying to fill high tech positions in a large international company.

The other problem is that the proposals are more the resource than human in HR

So the problem you're describing is they aren't treated as people. Chances are you're not offering a competitive wage (not that's not saying you compete to offer the lowest)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Not nearly enough....

That’s utter drivel. My firm pays one of the highest market rates out there yet the people we are sent are dross.

The reason is greed.

People all want the big salary now so they lie about their qualifications on their resume, and are woefully exposed when it comes to interviews - which ironically costs our firm more money in wasting our own time screening them.

90+% of so called “highly skilled” migrants coming into the country are - based on my experience over the last 15 years - qualified to push buttons based on a playbook.

It’s appalling, frustrating when you need qualified competent staff, yet nobody seems to care; let’s just all bury our heads in the sand and pretend it’s not an issue.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Not nearly enough....

It used to be that we could attract talent from the EU market. Our team was made of French, Greek, German etc. Since Brexit, that pool has basically dried up, with no one from those areas willing to fight the hurdles to come here, especially when they can work pretty well in the EU with no restrictions.

Those people didn't lose their right to work here and sorting it out legally it's like 5 minutes on the app, as I saw my friend do it.

The reason why they left is IR35, high tax and poor healthcare.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Not nearly enough....

>The reason why they left is IR35, high tax and poor healthcare.

That's not entirely fair, you're forgetting the world class xenophobia

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Not nearly enough....

you're forgetting the world class xenophobia

It exists in every country. The UK is not unique in that regard. Go for instance to Germany, you will not be treated as equal there in many places.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Not nearly enough....

Yes but there it has been some time since they deployed the army against people with a different religion.

[tiggity]

How about..

If UK companies paid decent salary to developers, stopped treating them with contempt of ludicrously tight deadlines / excessive workload , back of a fag packet "specifications", wanting all the brand new shiny skills / experience (but you are slaving excessive hours at work and no chance to learn them except on your own time, as after all who needs sleep) etc, etc.

.. then they would not face a shortage of developers.

It's amazibg how often a shortage of workers can be fixed by decent pay and conditions

I personally would not recommend an IT development career to people (unless they want to get out of development ASAP and become a manager). Commercial dev work is almost a guarantee of losing all the love of programming that made you want such a career in the first place.

.. Yes, I know there are a few places that do treat dev employees well, sadly they are in the minority (many of them say all the right things, but the reality ends up totally different from the platitudes spouted)

[heyrick]

Re: How about..

"Commercial dev work is almost a guarantee of losing all the love of programming that made you want such a career in the first place."

This is why I weild a bog brush like a lightsaber. One of my first jobs was writing code. Early 90s, a device based around the 6502. I grew up with the Beeb so could get on with that (actually, the firmware was built on a Master). Problem was, the expectations were unrealistic to the point of utter delusion. The boss was the biggest arsehole I've ever met. He enjoyed tearing strips out of people for his own faults. And the hardware had "issues" that made reliable software damn near impossible. I hated that job so much I never went near anything tech related again. Had much more fun looking after old people in nursing homes. And now I work in a factory doing cleaning, restocking, and a bunch of other odd jobs. The pay is lousy, but my only concerns about the job begin at 9am and finish at 5pm. There's no work to take home, nothing to stress over when I'm supposed to be asleep. Come this evening, it's sunny so I'm going straight home, pull out the deck chair, and enjoy a tea with a good book. Later on in the evening, Stranger Things on Netflix. If all hell breaks loose at work, not my problem.

Thanks, but I'll take less pay for the freedom to do what I want when not at work. No reports, no deadlines, no getting shouted at because I can't match promises that the sales people made (having actually fundamentally misunderstood what the product actually does).

[J.G.Harston]

Re: How about..

Have one ->

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever happened to all those ballerinas who 'retrained in cyber'?... surely that put a big dent the shortages...

Oh, it didn't... wonder why!

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they're out picking asparagus?

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

It created a huge shortage of ballerinas who now have to be imported from top 50 universities

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Maybe we should be recruiting from the EU. Perhaps we could even have some kind of reciprocal arrangement involving free movement or people and goods.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

A couple of the permitted universities are in the Eu. So you can lure people from France's principal research university to come and work in Bracknell, perhaps tell them there is a Pret A Manger ?

[codejunky]

Hmm

"A lack of skills has also seen technology job vacancies shoot up by almost 200 percent since 2020, and this has put further pressure on companies to increase salaries for in-demand roles"

So wages rise when there is a shortage of labour. But that then blows away the lies that having a massive reserve labour force of the entire EU didnt keep down wages at the lower end.

[J.G.Harston]

Re: Hmm

"So wages rise when there is a shortage of labour. But that then blows away the lies that having a massive reserve labour force of the entire EU didn't keep down wages at the lower end."

You've just destroyed your own argument in your second sentence with your first sentence. If wages are going up now, that can't mean anything other than wages were *not* going up then. And having a massive reserve labour force *does* keep wages down, as the entire history of self-organising employee groups have known throughout the history of guilds, unions, plaques, etc., where the aim - from the workers' side - is to restrict the supply of labour as much as possible to squeeze as much as possible out of the bastered employers.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@J.G.Harston

Sorry if I wasnt clear but you are saying what I said. You probably said it better.

One of the remain arguments was that freedom of movement didnt depress wages. A lie that has been sunk over and over.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Hmm

>One of the remain arguments was that freedom of movement didnt depress wages. A lie that has been sunk over and over.

Or it depressed individual wages, if you had no skills and were competing with cheap immigrants for fruit picking jobs, but raised overall wages because it grew the economy and created jobs.

You could go back to guilds, have all developers make £M but there would be no jobs for developers because nobody could afford one.

[DevOpsTimothyC]

Re: Hmm

Since 2020 I've seen the salaries offered go down. Not exactly surprising that it's hard to attract new talen when you're offering them less than what they are currently being paid

[J.G.Harston]

"Brexit has closed the door to the world's top graduates. Hiring from abroad now incredibly difficult."

But wasn't that the entire point? UK employers point blank refuse to use home-grown talent, and cop out by strip-mining foreign countries for it instead. Close off that door and force UK employers, screaming blue murder, to actually get off their arse and use UK workers.

[Anonymous Coward]

But is there much call for fashion/politics/economics/classics/etc degree graduates in the high tech sector?

[Big_Boomer]

A great idea, with just one pretty major flaw. There is a very limited amount of "home-grown talent" because too many companies do not invest in their staff, both in training and remuneration. This is because they are all obsessed with paying bigger and bigger dividends to their shareholders and to do that training budgets get cut first and hiring freezes are a common occurrence. As for the universities and degree awards, to be brutally honest they are worth about 1-2 years of real world experience in a company that trains and values their employees. Yes, most degreed staff start off better and most learn faster, but they often end up being less capable than many that never got a degree and spent those 3-4 years working and learning.

[Roland6]

>As for the universities and degree awards, to be brutally honest they are worth about 1-2 years of real world experience ... but they often end up being less capable than many that never got a degree and spent those 3-4 years working and learning.

I had the good fortune to be sponsored through my degree. However, what I found interesting was that the sponsored graduates were kept within the department of their specialisation, in my case systems development. Whereas the apprentices were rotated throughout the company and so gained both a better understanding of the company and a network of contacts...

[JDoe]

A very misleading press release by Government. The high performance individual route has been in existence since 2016, so it’s not new, but a distraction from other (bad) news.

[elsergiovolador]

50% tax?

50% tax and nothing to show for it. Good luck finding anyone worth their salt.

Then you have things like IR35 that ensure start up scene is only for the big guys with money.

UK is a low wage high tax economy with 3rd world level of services.

Try reporting a crime. Best case police will ignore you etc.

[Potemkine!]

The educational system is broken and is unable to provide tech workers the country needs? Not a problem! Let's not fix it and import cheap workers from poor countries who will be more than happy to work for a smaller pay grade. Now James, bring the Rolls Royce and drive me to the Club.

[martinusher]

No overnight fix, unfortunately

There was a time a few decades ago when highly qualified and experienced people couldn't get a job in the UK, at least not one that paid a competitive salary. Engineers/developers were treated as 'the help' when they did get a job. So its not surprising that they fled for higher wages and sunnier climates.

I ended up in California. Its OK. Its probably not the best place to emigrate to now.

The educational system has changed a lot since I lived in the UK. Its got Americanized -- all these meaningless grades churned out for numerous subjects that typically only evaluate 'soak and spurt' type learning, diligence over understanding. Degrees take many years now, cost a small fortune (without the mechanisms we have in the US to at least try to mitigate the costs). Education is now seen as vocational training, the pressure is to get the right degree for the right job with the astronomical starting salary, not something useful. Anyway, screwing up what was a fine system took the best part of 40 years so expect it to take the same amount of time to unscrew it up.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: No overnight fix, unfortunately

I wonder if the job listing says that a degree is required, it actually means that they look for someone naive enough to go through uni rather than using different, more effective ways of learning - I mean it in IT context. I believe there are some disciplines that unfortunately still require going to uni, because the knowledge is heavily guarded an inaccessible otherwise and that you can't learn through practice on your own - like you can't do a brain surgery in your living room or build a mini nuclear reactor in your shed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn’t be so bad if there was any actual talent coming across the pond

Having been recruiting developer candidates now for over 20 years, I’ve seen a huge swing toward Indian developer candidates going for jobs, and increasingly poor recruiter vetting.

Typically their resumes cite every technology under the sun yet as soon as you do a phone interview it becomes clear the candidates grossly exaggerated their skill set and most of them would struggle to perform even what we consider as basic tasks.

I would estimate we reject over 95% of candidates who apply and most of the applicants are from India.

This isn’t a new thing, it’s been prevalent for a decade, and it’s getting worse.

To me this suggests that:

A) The “HSMP” programme is massively flawed as candidates who lie are being allowed into the country based on fake qualifications, and

B) The continual drive for importing cheap “talent” (and I use that word loosely) is stopping companies in the UK taking on and training up apprentices or providing training to juniors.

Basically, companies in the UK have stopped investing in their own people due to poor short sighted management and a failure by the government to invest in its own population.

I suspect the same is true for many vocations.

[Missing Semicolon]

Keep them salaries down!

You can't have high salaries paid to those greasy coding oiks! So lets make it even easier to undercut the local talent, and ensure that it is really pointless getting a tech degree in the UK, which will maintain the "talent shortage".

This temporary pain of paying very high salaries is simply the market working as it is supposed to, just not in the interest of our corporate overlords.

[Tron]

A nation run by clowns.

You don't entice people by placing barriers like large fees and limited unis in front of them. You just push them away to more sensible countries.

Migrant labour is a valuable commodity, whether PhD's or manual labour. The UK used to profit by being better at enticing it away from other nations and nicking people's skills from their home nations than others. Kick it out and everything stops working. Airlines. Truck drivers. You name it. Access to migrant labour has always topped up local labour and filled in the gaps. Brexit has injected poison into the UK's economic metabolism.

There are fabulous coders available from lower ranking and non-ranking unis. The best coders don't need to go to uni. The elitism scam doesn't work in tech. But what would the old clown network at Westminster know about that?

Oh, and the exclusion of UK unis from EU projects and the sole focus on STEM (excluding the humanities and social sciences) will reduce the standing of UK unis in the rankings. Another win there for Bozo.

The government are idiots and are ruining the country. If you want to prosper in tech, DIY and apply for global VC (SoftBank/Silicon Valley) or get yourself off to a large tech corporation in the US or EU. At least you won't have to work in a country with rubbish transport, understaffed hospitals and gaps on the shelves, run by people you wouldn't buy a used car from.