back to article Intel suspends all operations in Russia weeks after halting chip shipments

Intel is temporarily halting all business operations in Russia following the decision a little more than a month ago to pause sales to both Russia and its puppet state Belarus. Days after Russian troops marched into Ukraine and the conflict began, the chipmaker said it was complying with applicable export regulations and …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I worry about my ancestral Ukrainians in these times, but I also feel kind of sorry for the common Russian citizen who is caught up in this mess. No one asked to be dealing with a crazy despot with no respect for the rules of war, humanity, or even a simple consideration that "Hey, maybe what I'm doing is wrong!"

    1. Aitor 1

      Also, clear bias

      And the bias is, we condemn Russia for their terrible acts. Ok, I am fine with most but not all measured (like measures against citizens without a trial).

      Why is quatar not sanctioned?

      And worse still Saudi Arabia? They are doing way worse things on Yemen!

      Or the US for their war crimes and invasions?

      In any case, I hope the best for Ukraine, and I have supported them with actual hard cold cash even if I dislike their government, as I think that actual money (and weapons) helps, words dont

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Also, clear bias

        classic whataboutroy

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Also, clear bias

        >And worse still Saudi Arabia? They are doing way worse things on Yemen!

        Yes but they are buying weapons in $ to do it

        The victims are brown

        Yemen's president does have an instagram account

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Headmaster

        Re: Also, clear bias

        And worse still Saudi Arabia? They are doing way worse things on Yemen!

        While Saudi Arabia can be rightly blamed for a lot of things, this really isn't one of them.

        The Shia-offshoot Houthi rebels (75% of the Yemeni people are Sunni) ousted the internationally recognised, democratically elected Yemeni government, who, in turn, asked Saudi Arabia for help. Saudi Arabia didn't turn up on the border one day and invade out of the blue.

    2. Ian Johnston Silver badge

      The crazy despot got 77.53% of the vote last time he stood for the presidency, in 2018. Opposition candidates got the rest of the vote, showing that if the common Russian citizenry people really wanted Putin out they could have voted him out.

      There is a revisionist view of German history which claims that the German people as a whole were the first victims of the Nazis, who never had popular support. This is what historians call "a load of bollocks", as is the notion that Putin represents anything other than the aspirations and values of a large majority of the Russian population.

      They knew what they were getting into. They bought their tickets. I say "Let them crash".

      1. Snake Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        RE: knew what they were getting into

        Thank you very much for posting this. I have been saying this for quite a long time, that it is the people who empower despots, as a despot is a single person and one person yelling "Die!" does not, and can not, kill millions.

        It is the blind followers of those despots that actually do the dirty deeds...and never get called out at the trials of the soul to pay for their own guilt.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

          As to that, I simply point to the Americans who voted for Drumpf, despite all his flaws and aggressive/belligerent behavior over the years. That does not mean the other half of the country that didn't vote for such a person deserves the repercussions against the nation that are levied while the fools have their way with things.

          And don't underestimate the power of crowd-think and having the KGB hovering over everyone so that you don't know whether the votes are really secret or if you're going to die of Plutonium poisoning for voting against Putin.

          1. DS999 Silver badge

            Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

            If a nation's leader has done something so odious a good part of the world sanctions them then even if his supporters still support him maybe it'll wake up all the people who didn't bother to vote next time around.

            The problem in Russia is that if any opposition candidate gets too popular Putin gets rid of him one way or another. Without a credible candidate for everyone to get behind, even if the majority voted against Putin next time around he'd still have more votes than any one candidate. Though with the disappearance of independent media in Russia, I'm not sure how you'd even find out about other candidates.

            So yeah it is too bad for the average Russian who isn't able to leave like many of the urban middle class is doing, but this is really the only way to limit the funding Putin uses to fund his military. If Russia's economy needs to be devastated to the point he can no longer pay his soldiers to force him to pull out of Ukraine, or force a revolt that removes him from power, so be it.

            We can't worry about Russian citizens enduring an economic depression when their soldiers are committing atrocities against Ukrainian citizens.

          2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

            >That does not mean the other half of the country that didn't vote for such a person deserves the repercussions

            I thought that was why the Eu was sanctioning Harley Davidson and Bourbon makers - targeting Trump supporters directly. There were no Eu attacks on Apple and Tesla

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

              I think it was more about targetting quintessentially "American" products, brands that people would recognize as being AMERICAN above all else. Given the atrocious global behavior of the transnationals like Apple or Google, they certainly don't seem to hold much stock in being "American" other than having a massive military at their backs to protect them from repercussions for the way they abuse foreign markets and evade taxes.

        2. Dr. Vagmeister

          Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

          In a way, if the elections were fair, then yes, the Russian people get what they voted for, yet reports are that the election was fraudulent. From the BBC 20th September 2021 :

          https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58614227

          States :

          "With almost all of the votes counted, the United Russia party had won nearly 50% of the vote, marking a slight drop in support from the previous election.

          Mr Putin's biggest critics were barred from running, and there were reports of ballot stuffing and forced voting."

          Putin got 50% of the vote. The Tories got 43.6% of the vote.

          People being barred from running, does seem to be a situation that means the results were less than representative.

          1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

            Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

            That's just a conspiracy theory. Al Gore won his Presidential campaign, as did Hilary Clinton, and Biden only won due to ballot stuffing.

            Again hypocrisy. "We" hold free & fair elections, our rivals cheat.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

              The sentiment from many of my (Russian) friends in Russia at the time was: We all know who's going to win the election, it's almost not even worth voting.

        3. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

          It's just politics.

          None of this is about regime change. This is why there have been no calls for Putin to be charged with war crimes, war crimes, war crimes or just genocide.

          Being politics, our politicians are variously triggered, shocked and traumatised by images of bodies lying in the streets. Scenes so shocking that they've not been seen in Europe since Russia started WW2.

          Alternatively, it's what happens to civilians in wartime. Or when states decide other states elected officials must go, and we do the regime change thing. Or just redraw maps. So thousands of tons of bombs dropped on Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, Gaza etc etc. Syria's had a war of agression, much as Ukraine has, complete with hostile occupying powers annexing large chunks of Syria's territory.

          So there's a lot of hypocrisy. Civilian deaths are war crimes when Russia's responsible, but not when we're responsible. Blair, Bush etc aren't war criminals, Putin's worse than Hitler. But because we're civilised, despite being an evil mass-murderer, Putin will be convicted and executed after a fair trial.

          But war crimes have occurred. None have really been investigated yet, but prejudices are already showing. People also seem to have forgotten Nayirah al-Sabah's heart breaking testimony about Iraqi soldiers killing babies in Kuwait. Everything Ukraine is telling us is true. None of it is crude attrocity propaganda.

          Again I'm not supporting Russia's actions, I simply think we're getting a very one-sided view. One odd example was a story that Ukrainian's killed Russians by feeding them poisoned pies. If true, that's also a war crime.

          1. Danny 14

            Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

            so you are likening civilians poisoning russian soldiers vs those same russian soldier lining up a villiage, raping mothers in front of their daughters, hacking limbs off people and pulling tongues out of people who would not say that the russians were welcome?

            There is something wrong with you.

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

              You think there's something wrong with expecting evidence, or justice?

              The pie story describes a war crime, or just mass murder. Should this be investigated, and potentially prosecuted? Of course it could be attrocity propaganda, and made up. Downside is if one side believes the other is committing attrocities, they may retaliate.

              1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

                "War crime" has a specific definition. Civilians poisoning soldiers of an occupying force may possibly be a crime of some sort[*], but it's not a "war crime".

                [*] Most likely, it's self-defence since war itself and invasion of another sovereign territory is itself almost always illegal, not to mention the documented actual "war crimes" those soldiers were perpetrating. And yes, this applies in all wars, even to the "good guys".

                1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                  Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

                  Civilians killing soldiers pretty much eliminates their civilian status, making them lawful or unlawful combatants. Not sure how self-defense would fly in any civil trial either, assuming it would ever get to trial. Especially given Ukraine's reluctance to prosecute crimes alleged to have been commited during their civil war.

                  It's all very messy. The DM has an example of a neat ambush by a lone Ukrainian tank vs a Russian convoy. Tank looks like it destroyed a couple of IFVs, then Ukrainian artillery joins in. Ambush happens in a residential area though, so buildings are damaged and civilians possibly killed or injured. So war crime, or just war?

              2. veti Silver badge

                Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

                You know who has jurisdiction over an alleged war crime? The state in which the crime occurs, that's who.

                So let the Ukrainian courts try all these crimes. We'll see what they say is an appropriate punishment for each.

                Don't like it? Think it's unfair? Then keep your soldiers in friendly territory. Not too hard, surely?

          2. DS999 Silver badge

            This is about regime change at this point

            We won't take any direct action to cause it, but the only way these sanctions will be lifted is if Putin is out of power. He has gone too far, there is no possible deal where the US and NATO countries will lift sanctions before that happens, even if Russia pulls out of Ukraine.

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: This is about regime change at this point

              But much of our action thus far has been the collective punishment of Russians. Presumably in the hope that Putin will be deposed, assassinated, tried & executed and Russia won't collapse into a civil war.

              Prior to this conflict, we were told Putin must stop interfering in other country's affairs. If we want to depose Assad & partion Syria, that's our right. Same when Venezuela elected the wrong government, although the coercive diplomacy has been dialled back a little because oil.

              Or there's been the EU-China summit these week. The EU told China For us, the war in Ukraine is a defining moment for whether we live in a world governed by rules or by force.

              Which presumably means by the EU's rules, or else. Even when the rules are inconsistently applied, or enforced. And now India's being threatened with sanctions for not following our rules. Which I guess means BRICS will end up with more nukes than NATO.

            2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: This is about regime change at this point

              Might be too late Even if official sanctions are lifted.

              Somebody is going to want some compensation for all those aircraft 'nationalised' else they will be seized if they ever leave Russia. If they are seized in London are British airways going to trust that there will be no retaliation seizing of their planes if they ever fly to Moscow. Even if they trust the nice new democratic version Russia, will their insurance company?

              If Russia pulls out of Ukraine tomorrow will every business in Europe suddenly rush to reset their trade networks so they rely on Russia again ?

              1. DS999 Silver badge

                Re: This is about regime change at this point

                Yes western companies will not do business with Russia so long as Putin is around. There would be way too much public backlash against any who did.

                EU countries are going to do their best to eliminate their dependence on Russian gas and oil. Maybe that doesn't really hurt them too much if they can find other buyers, but oil and gas aren't quite as fungible as most people think. Gas requires either pipelines or CNG facilities on both ends and tankers to travel between the two. The type of oil being sold has to match the available refinery capacity in the place buying it. These problems are surmountable, but will require investment on both sides that will reduce the profit for Russia.

                The best thing the west could do to hurt Putin if he survives this war and digs himself into the Kremlin for the long haul like a tick on a dog's back is to move away from fossil fuels as quickly as possible. If his fossil fuel assets have a permanently declining value due to declining demand, it will shrink his economy to the point he won't be able to make war on anyone.

            3. gnasher729 Silver badge

              Re: This is about regime change at this point

              Putin out of power - but Putin is President for life. Well, no problem.

          3. sanmigueelbeer

            Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

            One odd example was a story that Ukrainian's killed Russians by feeding them poisoned pies. If true, that's also a war crime.

            A civilian killing a soldier is a "war crime"? WTF?

            Donald, is that you?

            1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

              No, it's Putin.

            2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

              Gitmo was filled with civilians accused of war crimes. Ok, not civilians, but unlawful enemy combatants, which placed them in an odd legal limbo.

              Otherwise the rules are relatively clear. Combat should be between combatants, civilians should be protected. People that join the fight become combatants, not civilians. Gets a bit more complicated for civil authorities like the police, especially if they're paramilitary. Idea is they're meant to be protected to maintain some semblance of order, and co-operate with the occupying power.

              But such is politics. Bucha was a massacre, so for peace, we must give Ukraine more weapons. This makes sense. It might make investigating war crimes easier if both sides are using different calibres. Or Kiev's ex-Azov police chief might decide not to investigate Ukrainians 'massacred' by 5.56mm bullets. Kinda what happened after separatist were cornered in Odessa's Trade Union building and set on fire. Ukraine chose to prosecute the victims, and convince people the fire started because molotovs thrown of the roof somehow curved back and in through a window. Physics works differently in Ukraine.

              Or there's a lack of critical thinking. So we know there's maybe 400 dead civilians in Bucha. We don't know how they died. We know up until 30th March, Russians occupied the area. We know Ukraine attacked those forces because we've seen wrecked Russian (or Ukrainian) IFVs in a residential street.

              So given that, we seem expected to believe that Russia is responsible for all the civilian deaths & destruction, and none were caused by 'friendly fire'.

              1. gnasher729 Silver badge

                Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

                BND (German Bundesnachrichtendienst) has Recording of Russian soldiers being ordered to kill civilians. Well, it’s not reasonable to believe that Ukrainians killed themselves or killed hundreds of their people to create false reports of war crimes. But there is actual evidence that makes Russians crimes clear beyond reasonable doubt.

                1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                  Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

                  Really?

                  There have been inquests determining the cause of death, and trials to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was Russia? Or are we relying on hearsay from a potentially unreliable source. Remember the heros of Snake Island, who defied the Russian Navy and were massacred? Slight snag when they were all found alive and well. Or the mobile crematoriums supposedly operating around Mariupol. Shades of the Holocaust, or just fake news given the image of the mobile unit is 14yrs old. Or today's attack on a Donbass train station. We're told that was by Russia, but that doesn't really make sense because Russia's supposed to be defending Donbass.

                  But such is propaganda. Investigations are certainly needed, but haven't been happening. Finding bodies where there's been heavy fighting is expected. Finding mass graves is to be expected. SOP is to collect identifying information, respectfully bury the dead and log it with graves registration. Finding bodies bound & shot is obviously more suspicious, but there's very little investigation. They might be executed Ukrainian civilians, combatants, Russian deserters, collaborators. We just don't know.

          4. Pascal Monett Silver badge

            Re: not been seen in Europe since Russia started WW2

            Sorry, since when has Russia started WWII ?

            You need to read a proper history book and stop spouting such nonsense.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: not been seen in Europe since Russia started WW2

              while Stalin didn't start WW2, they did join 3rd Reich, on 17th September 1939. And they were allies, until the Fuehrer decided to double-cross them in 1941.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: not been seen in Europe since Russia started WW2

                oh, please correct my reading of historical events! While Germany was done with Poland and busy gathering troops to attack France, Soviet Union was busy digesting the Baltics and starting another short, victorious war against Finland. Oops, my bad, I forgot about annexation of that bit of Romania that we now call 'Moldova'...

          5. gnasher729 Silver badge

            Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

            Killing Russian soldiers who are raping and murdering is not a “war crime”, it is not murder, it is self defense.

            1. veti Silver badge

              Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

              Using poison is a war crime. Of course the trial (by a Ukrainian court) has the discretion to consider "collective self-defence" as a reasonable justification, but it's still a crime in the same way as killing someone who's broken into your house is still a crime. There are various rules-of-war statutes that are all pretty clear about that, with no wiggle room that I can see (e.g. no, it's specifically not limited to the actions of soldiers or state actors).

          6. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

            Worse, I read an article published by the CBC claiming that under international law and court proceedings, it was going to be hard to convict any of the Russians of the war crimes that are being committed, and listed off a lot of civilian-proceeding type "rights" expectations that didn't exist when the Nazi's were being tried after WWII.

            Sadly, they're right. As has so often happened around the world over the past couple of decades, hideous things are going to happen, and 99% of the culprits will walk away scott-free.

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: RE: knew what they were getting into

              Convicting Putin would be hard. Ok, he presumably ordered the invasion. Tying him to individual incidents would be a whole lot harder. Putin could simply show orders that stated civilians were to be protected per convention.

              Rest is politics. I think it should be possible to prosecute people directly responsible for underlying crimes, ie murder, manslaughter, rape, theft etc. It still leaves the problem that countries don't recognise international courts, but if we're to hold the moral high ground, potential crimes by either side need to be investigated properly.

      2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        Re: if the common Russian citizenry people really wanted Putin out they could have voted him out

        Not really.

        You're making the mistake of thinking that Democracy is a thing in Russia.

        Democracy is a puppet, and Putin is the puppetmaster. Successful political figures running against Putin have a tendancy of disappearing, so voting for them is not really an option.

        Putin leaves the cretins that have no chance to justify his rigging of the electoral landscape. You don't need to rig the votes if you've taken care of all serious claims to your power.

        And don't forget that Putin has changed the Russian Constitution to basically ensure he can stay in power as long as he wants (aka until he dies).

        So, the only real vote against Putin is a bullet to his brain. The rest is just theatre.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: if the common Russian citizenry people really wanted Putin out they could have voted him out

          Putin will celebrate if Marine Le Pen wins in France. Democracy rulez OK...

      3. Potemkine! Silver badge

        The crazy despot got 77.53% of the vote last time he stood for the presidency, in 2018

        Yeah, the election was fair and not rigged, and the opposition wasn't silenced.

        There is a revisionist view of German history which claims that the German people as a whole were the first victims of the Nazis, who never had popular support.

        This view is revisionism indeed, but one has to say that NSDAP never got absolute majority at any election. Hitler reached power only because of the conservatives' misconception they could manipulate him.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        and Putin's ratings among the Russians, since the start of his small, victorious war, have soared, significantly, from above 60% to above 80%. Unless you assume the results are _totally_ faked, but most 'experts' believe that, even with a margin of error, the results do reflect the real trend. Which makes you scratch your head about sanity and intelligence, never mind humanity, of Russians en masse.

        But I don't think the Russians will reflect and draw conclusions. The only reason such reflection and conlusions surfaced in post-WW2 Germany and Japan was that they lost, and their population suffered terribly. Nothing of this kind is gonna happen to Russians (because nukes and because we're not animals), so I'm being pessimistic. Sanctions will bite and Russians will feel the pain, but this will only fuel their irrational belief that this is YET ANOTHER moment of history where they're being wronged by the Evil West poised to destroy Their Rightous Mother Russia.

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Is it irrational though when we apply double standards? Bombing buildings is a war crime, and genocide. Unless they're in Gaza, in which case the US will just veto any condemnation at the UN.

          1. Jesthar

            Really? You're going there?

            Neither situation is nice, but looking at the hard, cold statistics, Israel/Palestine hasn't racked up as many dead (on both sides) in 18 years as Putin's invasion managed in 18 days (with many more since). Which is hardly surprising given that Putin sent 150,000+ troops into Ukraine and merrily ordered them to flatten anything in their path after the initial plan (to be welcomed as liberating heroes and surgically remove the Ukrainian government within a few days) descended into total chaos when both the government and everyday Ukranians said "Ni" and refuse to roll over and meekly surrender as expected.

            There are also a lot more legal complexities surrounding Palestine - but middle eastern politics is way too complicated for the likes of me to get my head around, so I'm not going there.

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Why not go there?

              Interfering in other country's affairs has been normalised by custom & practice. Laws governing the responsibilities of occupying powers have been ignored. Annexing other country's territory is legitimate, even when there are UN resolutions stating otherwise. Redrawing maps is fine, just ask the Kosovans. Genocide is ok, providing it's carving up Yugoslavia along ethnic divisions.

              Bombing, shelling or shooting civilians is fine. We bombed Yugoslavia for close to 3 months. Zelensky constantly whines about war crimes, yet Ukraine ignored Minsk and has been bombing, shelling and shooting it's own citizens since 2014. But that's been OK for us because even though Ukraine is one of the most corrupt nations, they've proven a very useful proxy for attacking Russia.

              It still doesn't explain why civilians can be killed in some conflicts but not others.

              1. Jesthar

                Well, it's a fine list of whataboutery, I'll give you that, but I'm not entirely sure what your point is? Ukraine had a civil war against armed Russian backed separatists, therefore it deserves to be invaded by Russia? A specific peace treaty in Ukraine didn't last (twice - the first Minsk treaty suffered violations back and forth from both sides, the second Minsk treaty was almost immediately broken by a significant offensive from Russian backed separatists), therefore we should let Russia impose 'peace' for them? Ukraine is corrupt, therefore they can't be the victim of war crimes? Civilians died elsewhere, so it shouldn't be a concern in Ukraine? We shouldn't interfere in conflicts between other people, except when we should?

                It's pretty much guaranteed that some civilians will die in any conflict. There is, however, a difference between collateral damage and deliberate targeting of civilians, and military forces are supposed to do all they can to minimise the risk to non-combatants. That part of the Geneva Conventions came about after WW2, the Blitz, and the subsequent flattenng of much of Germany by the Allies and Russia. Sure, there are going to be mistakes made. But it's hard to look upon the presence of mass graves, corpses with bound hands and execution style wounds, numerous reports of rape etc. and claim that is collateral damage.

                As to corruption - well, yes, Ukraine has a corruption problem, second only to Russia in the whole of Europe if memory serves. That problem started with the collapse of the Soviet Union, and pretty much escalated identically alongside and in the same way as the Russian problem - until 2014, and the Revolution of Dignity. Since then, they've been slowly but steadily trying to root out corruption. They may have a long way to go, but at least they are trying. Maybe someday they'll only be as corrupt as, say, the US, or the UK.

                Bottom line, this is an imperfect world and the human race makes a lot of mistakes. But we can always try and do better than before. Yes, that means we'll probably make more mistakes, as the only way to never make a mistake is to never do anything. Personally, I think that letting Russia have their way in Ukraine (which, essentially, involves the erasure of Ukraine as a separate culture and people) would be a mistake. Maybe you see that differently.

      5. wakero

        Indeed, and Russia has been terrorizing its neighbours for 500 years. Those poor Russians that had to terrorize due to their leaders, I feel so sorry for them.

  2. thenitz

    Intel had to take a painful decision for both the company and the employees. They had some very smart people in Nizhny Novgorod, and their product knowledge and math skills are hard to replace.

    Really sad to see what Russia has become and so much of their potential wasted because of Putin and his cronies.

  3. S4qFBxkFFg

    At some point, there are going to be questions asked such as:

    "Why, in addition to sanctions, isn't the Intel Management Engine being weaponised to harm the Russian economy?"

    From my (possibly incorrect) understanding of its capabilities, it can use the network independently of the main system, so if new firmware is loaded (obfuscated windows update?), it should probably be able to geolocate, and if in Russia, subsequently brick as many pieces of connected hardware as possible, ultimately including itself.

    Would Biden consider that to be going too far, or worry about people shunning western CPUs?

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      There's the obvious risk of blowback. Whatever exploit gets used to attack Russian PCs could quickly get reverse engineered and turned against the EU, US or just any random targets.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Hard to reverse engineer a chip that has fried itself to slag...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Jellied Eel - 11 posts in this one thread, obviously you have to increase the quantity when the Rouble takes a tumble.

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