back to article 5G masts will be strapped to lampposts and traffic lights – once £4m project figures out who owns them

New 5G cell sites will be sprouting from streetlights, traffic signals, and CCTV poles across the country as part of Britain's plans to spread low-latency mobile connectivity to the masses. The £4m scheme, first floated in September last year, has seen eight companies winning £500k contracts to "explore how digital software …

  1. katrinab Silver badge
    Facepalm

    You are talking about people who stormed the Apple Shop in Regent St to stop Bill Gates using it as a base to spread 5G via vaccines or whatever nonsense it is they believe.

    And the shop in question is three doors away from the Microsoft Shop which actually is owned by Bill Gates.

    1. ThatOne Silver badge

      Why would they be logical about that?...

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Well if these idiots are being controlled by microchips it seems pretty obvious that they are running Windows. Look at how many new version the vaccine has needed, now talking about it needing annual upgrades.

        1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
          Joke

          re: annual upgrades

          Yeah, I downloaded my 3rd Service pack yesterday. Still a bit of a pain in the arm to load.

      2. Trigonoceps occipitalis

        “Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired.”

        Jonathan Swift

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Eat more babies

          Jonathan Swift

    2. vtcodger Silver badge

      5G mind control needs a few patches

      On top of everything else, 5G mind control doesn't seem to work very well. If it did, these folks, far from fighting Gates and the Illuminati, would presumably be under its control, assembled in the streets, and chanting "What do we want? 5G. When do we want it? NOW!!!"

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: 5G mind control needs a few patches

        >5G mind control doesn't seem to work very well.

        So further proof that it is Gates/windows !

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Someone read the specifications....

      And saw the words 'Beam forming', and that was it, put two and two together -> mind control.

      'Beam forming', is very clever, by knowing the position of the 5G device with respect to the 5G mast, is focuses the signal by combining multiple waveforms so that the amplification is greater at the spot (of the device) than it would from a single waveform, much like several people creating ripples in water, that converge at a single point.

      And no, 5G much like 4G, much like 3G is not a ubiquitous waveform that blankets the blue sky around you, as the marketing people for mobile companies would like you to believe it is.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    5G radiation coming from street lamps now. its called light~

  3. CM
    Holmes

    When did radio antennas become "masts"? A "mast" stuck to a lamp post?

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Yeah, it's a bit bad of a technical publication not to realise that the mast is the "tower" and the aerial (or antenna) is what goes at the top of the mast. The article is about putting aerials onto pre-existing "masts", eg lampposts

      I'm sure if Lewis was still on the shipping desk that he;d be able to educate them on what a mast is :-).

    2. martinusher Silver badge

      Cell sites on lamp posts are common in our part of the US. The antenna assembly looks like a tall cylinder on top of the mast (its usually above the arm that holds the lamp).

      Visually they're somewhat less obtrusive than the pseudo-tree that you see poking out of a stand of trees or just placed incongruously beside the freeway. The 'tree' is either significantly larger than the real trees around it or is of a species that either doesn't grow in the area or is unknown to horticulture.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        No, those are IKEA lamp posts

        The diagrams were printed the wrong way up and council workers buried them in the ground the wrong way up

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

    Harmful to what exactly? Now they will be strapped to streetlights and lampposts. That is only outside your home, inside you're home they're offering not-small-at-all black boxes that will fit snugly on your fireplace mantle and bedroom corner stand.

    Then there's the increased power consumption which means increased taxes which means increased everything else, including health insurance.

    Physical health has many variables.

    To possibly satisfy all conditions, how about putting massive 5G arrays in every graveyard...

    1. katrinab Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      Re: 5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

      How is the black box that transmits 5G any different to the white box that transmits my wifi signal?

      Wifi Access Points also come in other colours, including black.

      1. ThatOne Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: 5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

        > How is the black box that transmits 5G any different to the white box that transmits my wifi signal?

        Yes, but black is more sinister...

        1. Kane
          Childcatcher

          Re: 5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

          "Yes, but black is more sinister..."

          Dun, Dun, DUUUHNNN!!!

        2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: 5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

          >Yes, but black is more sinister...

          A career in the home office awaits you

        3. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: 5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

          Yes, but black is more sinister...

          Hey, Black Boxes Matter...

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: 5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

        "How is the black box that transmits 5G any different to the white box that transmits my wifi signal?"

        Or the small white globes that transmit even higher frequency radiation from my light fittings.

        1. Arthur the cat Silver badge

          Re: 5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

          Well, if we're playing Yorkshiremen - I've just had an X-ray today.

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: 5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

            They finally moved on from leeches in Yorkshire?

            1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: 5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

              Leeches?

              Luxury, if us wor poorly we had to gu t'NHS

      3. dajames

        Re: 5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

        How is the black box that transmits 5G any different to the white box that transmits my wifi signal?

        Perhaps six small black ones can look like one large white one?

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

        "How is the black box that transmits 5G any different to the white box that transmits my wifi signal?"

        A larger footprint and another device consuming even more power. Are these 2 things typically good?

        "Then above that bit where you wouldn't normally have anything..." <-- you mean abnormally... there's a new normal.

        Human advancement for the price of luxury privilege.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hmmm

    Lampposts are going to be busy, first EV chargers, now 5G stations. All that from a 500W unmetered connection?

    1. Natalie Gritpants Jr

      Re: Hmmm

      Is that 500W per street lamp? Seems a lot even before LED lamps were installed.

      1. katrinab Silver badge

        Re: Hmmm

        The old sodium lamps ranged between 50W for a residential side street to 400W for a busy urban dual carriageway. The newer LED bulbs are about 30% lower - so between 35W and 280W.

        It is the residential side streets where you are most likely to want to plug in a car charger.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hmmm

        500W is the usual threshold for unmetered power supply. It's uneconomic to fit/read a meter for every lamppost, but < 500W with a predictable pattern is allowed for "guesstimate" charging without a meter, so that's what is usually planned for.

  6. Eclectic Man Silver badge

    Eating your equipment - DON'T

    "5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE, which is pretty harmless unless you try physically eating the networking equipment. Even then the risk is from electric shock or indigestion."

    WARNING

    Eating electronic equipment which contains lots of harmful chemicals is not a good idea. Specifically eating batteries can cause serious problems far far worse than indigestion, as internal fluids in the digestive tract can be conductive and release very harmful chemicals when in contact with batteries. Anyone who swallows a battery (even one which seems to have no charge left) should immediately consult a doctor.

    1. Richard Jones 1

      Re: Eating your equipment - DON'T

      Batteries are far and away more toxic once they enter a body than almost anything else normally to hand. They can burn through internal organs within days, leading to fatal consequences, as a number of small children's parents have found. A case of look no throat or stomach, it is also incredibly painful.

      1. Telecide

        Re: Eating your equipment - DON'T

        Ironically, stomach acid is pretty dodgy too.

    2. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Eating your equipment - DON'T

      California insists we put that cancer warning on all our products, including the ones that aren't edible.

  7. badgerclaw

    As they are typically on the top of 15 metre(+) poles with a plethora of "street furniture" associated i struggle to see how they'd work at any level of quality or in a cost effective manor without saturating an area (based on street lighting height) and the "cost" to maintain from an operators perspective.

    In general i was also under the impression that there are issues when too many sites overlap and also weight tolerances for the equipment in general?

    These seem to be major "site" considerations on applications I've seen recently from Hutcison & EE.

    As most 4G poles won't carry 5G equipment would a typical street light be "rated" to carry anything beyond a very "small cell" or at all?

    I don't imagine a lot of people will be appreciative of them (regardless of what you are i may think) strapped to the lights outside "the kids" bedroom windows and i can see it not playing well for planning departments in regards to the volume of noise it will create.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      The streetlight sites are for city centers.

      You need lots of cells because a bazzillion punters walking down Oxford st all need to: appear to themselves every day, On TikTok.To make sure they're still real. It's the only connection they feel.

      Then having micro cells every 10m helps and it's slightly inconvenient to knock down every building in central London to put up custom large masts.

      Don't worry about the lights outside kid's bedroom, worry about what they are listening to on their infernal transistor radios playing the devils music (swanee kazoo)

      1. jmch Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        ".. .To make sure they're still real. It's the only connection they feel."

        +1 for the pink floyd reference!

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          I thought it was a little subtle.

          I dropped an Aliens reference into a meeting and got blank looks from the Gen-whatever whippersnappers

        2. Trubbs

          "+1 for the pink floyd reference!"

          Roger to that!

          1. jmch Silver badge
            Happy

            "Roger to that!"

            I Sid what you've done there!

            1. The Basis of everything is...

              Less of that you Animals.

    2. katrinab Silver badge

      My local 4G mast is on top of a streetlight pole.

      You have the normal pole with the lamp attached to an arm coming out of the side. Then above that bit where you wouldn't normally have anything, the pole continues to extend upwards, gets a bit wider, and the 4G stuff is up there.

      Not every lamp post has one of those, not even remotely close to every one of them. There is one for O2 on one side of the road at a junction, then on the other side of the road there is one for EE.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        >You have the normal pole ...

        From around my area, I think you find that this isn't a 'normal pole', due to variation etc. the normal lamp (ie. the one that has been there as long as you can remember) gets removed and replaced with a brand new 4G pole.

        1. VicMortimer Silver badge
          Childcatcher

          Here, the fancy downtown poles are special. The wood poles in the rest of town are just normal wood poles with 5G antennas screwed into them.

          1. katrinab Silver badge

            I've never seen a wooden streetlight pole.

            The ancient ones tend to be cast iron. More modern ones tend to be galvanised steel.

  8. batfink

    "Modernising the way local authorities and operators work together"

    Good luck with that. My local council can't even get their planning answers straight between themselves.

    1. Dr. Vagmeister

      Re: "Modernising the way local authorities and operators work together"

      Oh yes, they are absolutely crepe.

      Woman across the road backed into my car on two occasions coming out of her drive. I suggested that the council use on the kerb parking as per my side. Their response was that it would require the tarmac path to be strengthened as the utilities were running underneath the pavement. We had work completed for new gas pipes and water pipes in the entire road - and all utilities are my side not the other, and you can see the TV cable company trenches my side too.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: "Modernising the way local authorities and operators work together"

        >Their response was that it would require the tarmac path to be strengthened as the utilities were running underneath the pavement.

        Perhaps you might wish to request a copy of their GIS utilities map for your road...

        Wouldn't surprise me if:

        1) The GIS system and reality don't match.

        2) They were looking at the plans on their system the wrong way round.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: "Modernising the way local authorities and operators work together"

          >The GIS system and reality don't match.

          They never match.

          It's like as-built drawings never match the thing built

        2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: "Modernising the way local authorities and operators work together"

          "2) They were looking at the plans on their system the wrong way round."

          Having dealt with the local planning dept. option 2 sounds the most plausible!!

  9. TimMaher Silver badge
    Angel

    How much money?

    How much rental can I charge for installing one on our roof?

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: How much money?

      IIRC, I think there was some sort of OFCOM guidance on that such that you can't charge prohibitive amounts. Also, in some cases at least, you can't refuse to have it if they want to put one there. I think there's also something in the rules about "reasonable access" too, possibly with extra charges allowed to be levied for out of hours access.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: How much money?

      >How much rental can I charge for installing one on our roof?

      About 0.00001% of the cost of getting planning permission, getting the CAA, OfCom, the CoE, the village in bloom committee and the Chancellor of the Dutchy of Arbroath's gamekeepers tea-masher's mate to approve it.

      Getting a structural engineering report, a new telecom certified electrical supply, a separate meter because the 50W it uses is taxed at a different rate (actually the same % but calculated in a different way) and a determination if this means your cat now comes under IR35

      You also need a copy of the report about how the government is dynamically thrusting toward a new next-generation cloud based high-tech utopia of skills based on Internet of things (only available from HMSO in person)

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: only available from HMSO in person

        Ah... you must mean the HMSO office at No 42 Ganges St, Kolkata that is only open between midday and 1pm on alternate Wednesdays.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: only available from HMSO in person

          Unless they are all at a party

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: How much money?

        And then they conclude you have bats nesting.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How much money?

      I wonder if it's like electricity wayleave agreements.

      I have a wooden pole carrying a 11kV leccy distribution transformer, set in a hedge at the side of my house, plus a wire stay. A few feet from that, still in the hedge, is another pole carrying the 440V cabling to domestic consumers (one phase each), plus a stay.

      For accommodating that we get about £150 a year, paid once every 5 years. We also get all the trees near the 11kV line trimmed for free.

  10. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "Some set a phone mast in Birmingham on fire a couple of years ago, claiming it was some kind of mind control ray sponsored by the Illuminati and Bill Gates"

    They were correct and, indeed, living proof about mind control. They just misidentified who sponsors it.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Never thought of Ozzie as representing the mind of Birmingham before..

      1. WolfFan Silver badge

        There are actual working minds in Birmingham? (Specifically the one in England, the one in Alabama, and the one in Central Canaduh, I don’t know anything about the multitudes of others.) I’d like to see some evidence for this supposition. Especially for the one in Alabama, I don’t think that there’s been a working mind in the entire state since 2016, possibly earlier.

        1. The Basis of everything is...

          Depends on what you mean by working.

  11. Roger Greenwood
    Go

    I hope there is an acronym for one of these projects:-

    National Infrastructure Making Backhoes Yesterday

  12. G R Goslin

    That's all very well

    Where I live, there are no street lights, traffic lights, CCTV , but then there is no signals from any of the G's. So, Situation Normal.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: That's all very well

      There is a new system called Large Area Mobile Broadband (LAMB) which will equip sheep with backpack transmitters allowing them to roam the countryside bringing internet to the yokels.

      1. Arthur the cat Silver badge

        Re: That's all very well

        Using the new wool based mesh protocol - it's knitware.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: That's all very well

          Remember to listen out - the more baa's the better the signal...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: That's all very well

            I tried to use it, but someone else hogget all the bandwidth

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: That's all very well

              Wether ewe can use it depends on how much RAM your phone has.

              1. Roland6 Silver badge

                Re: That's all very well

                But your mileage will vary as many vendors dock the RAM.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: That's all very well

        Like this?

        Plenty of RAM and enough processing power to play Pong :-)

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: That's all very well

          And that was in 2009....

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: That's all very well

            I did look for the upgraded version to see if it's ready to play Crysis, but no luck so far.

  13. Arthur the cat Silver badge
    Megaphone

    Damn!

    5G is no more harmful than 4G LTE

    Please, can't we find some technology that will make Piers Corbyn's head explode for real?

  14. Real Ale is Best
    Boffin

    Here in Aylesbury they have rolled out 5G masts all around the town. They each come equipped with a couple of large cabinets, so I'm not sure how they are going to squeeze their contents into a streetlamp.

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