This is going well: Meta adds anti-grope buffer zone around metaverse VR avatars Meta Platforms Inc, better known for its controversial turn as Facebook, says its mission is to, "Give people the power to build community and bring the world closer together." But not too close, it seems. The mega-corp wants to keep people apart in its metaverse. The ad biz, besotted with virtual reality now that it can no …
Zuck doesn't want the competition...
I thought it was Bezos with the flying penis?
What a shock: the first thing people who are into "VR" are thinking about is assaulting each other.
What did you expect after 20+ years of intense 3D video games combined with the prevalence of mysogyny and bigotry in the public internets?
This whole thing is a bad idead from the get go.
Actually, I did engage the subject the OP brought up. It's in my subject line (which the OP left blank) and in the first sentence of the body of the post. The bit you quoted was my follow-up colophon/conversational question. As you know full well.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
What did you expect after 20+ years of intense 3D video games combined with the prevalence of mysogyny and bigotry in the public internets?
Or just all human history.
We're not (collectivly) that nice to people we don't know.
Plus, we seem to like drawing willies on things. (There's a giant drawing of a well endowed man on a hill in Dorset. I was watching something recently where they mentioned that latest evidence suggests he's become gradually more and more well endowed over the centuries.... )
It's like that old proverb... ."Give a man a fish and he'll eat for the day... but give a man a tool to scratch penises in things and at least he'll die happy."
Everything going on is perfectly natural. The Internet is for porn and all that. VRChat is still full of fun thankfully. I hope it stays that way. I still remember when even simple things like 240p webcam broadcasts were considered cutting edge. The first thing I did was find girls to mess with across various IM services because guess what? That’s what people liked to do! Folks who didn’t want to take part just didn’t, how refreshingly simple!
Nowadays, folks can’t tell the difference between fantasy and reality. It’s all thanks to social media and the web in general becoming super serious; which is all thanks to businesses like facebook and linkedin cyberstalking/profiling everybody. Many people don’t know how to have fun any more because they’re too wrapped up in whether their profile will be judged by some twat in a suit later down the line, or even worse, a hate mob.
Protip: Dump social networking websites! Gather phone numbers instead, then… have at it!
It says to me that the purpose of a virtual environment is to do things that aren't possible in reality, and that's no different in VR than it was in good old 2D.
It's escapism. There's a reason video games tend to be about fantastical life and death scenarios. They are a chance to drive fast cars, shoot huge guns, fly planes, jump around at terrifying height and speeds... all things that if you fuck them up in real life, they get you killed. We get to press the little adrenaline triggers but in a safe way.
Even slow paced non-action games are usually about doing things you *can't* do in real life. Your city building sim, your theme park sim - it's about doing something interesting without the massive financial barriers or the potentially devastating consequences if you do badly.
And then we have Meta. I mean, what *is* this thing for? Meet for dinner? Nice social experience in reality, but a bit pointles without the meal, might as well have a zoom call over a takeaway - and 2 years of on and off covid lockdown has taught me that *that* isn't really very fun. Go to the gym? Again, can be pleasantly social, but there's not a lot of point exercising an avatar. It's never going to be as good at racing cars, or flying planes, or riding bikes as a dedicated simulation title. If I want to do safe, low stakes things, then I should be *getting* something out of that - like genuine social contact with actual humans. We have pubs for that, *and* they have beer in them.
Someone mentioned gambling, but again, I don't need VR for that, been playing poker quite happily via tabletop simulator and zoom during lockdown, and since that does involve trying to read people a bit, hiding behind an avatar would make the game *less* engaging.
The whole metaverse thing has always been a solution in search of a problem.
Some of the more popular games on the most common VR headset (also owned by Facebook/Meta) is 'Job Simulator'. The reason this is making the news now is that a lot of non-gamers and older folks are now using these to explore multiplayer VR and clashing with the shitty teenage boy/troll/gamer mentality that has evolved over many years in online games.
This has existed as far as I'm concerned since the day the world went to public facing internet gaming. As opposed to playing in private groups.
Want to play a driving game, properly? Private group. FPS not populated by idiots/teamkillers/incompetents? Private group.
MMOs there is no escape.
Online gaming is generally, shit. Some games positively revell in it in fact. Obviously someone enjoys it or they wouldn't make such things, but it's hard to remember last time I bought or participated in a title made for multiplayer.
Binraider,
Online gaming is generally, shit. Some games positively revell in it in fact.
That's where EVE comes in. Sure the universe is a hive of scum and villainy, but that's why you have a corportation of like-minded souls to help defend you against it. Then you're basically using the rest of humanity (or at least those bits of it that choose to play EVE) to simulate the horror of existence.
But I guess that's what lots of MMO's are, "us against the world".
Yep, EVE did keep my interest for some time. There aren't many roles my ancient 2007 pilot hasn't attempted in that universe one way or another. EVE's scum-and-villainy aspects can largely be defended against (don't go carrying blueprints on Autopilot out of Jita...)
I did enjoy EVE for many years, but the game as a way of making assets "owning" you. At that point, the game becomes a job. That was the cue to do move on. Setting alarm clocks to defend a POS is not my definition of fun - what if the countdown runs out while you're at work? Eve's UI changes are more than slightly off-putting too.
Still, it's one that is considerably better than idiots tossing grenades at you from behind or smashing you off the racetrack while some terrible AI referee decides that you were the cause of the collision! (Real-world instances of this happening too of course - the famous Senna ramming to decide the world championship incident amongst others).
Genuinely, the only online games I like now are the ones where you can opt to play between a competent group of your choice. DCS world is a very good crap-filter; because the bar to even play the thing is such that the morons won't be able to switch the engines on. And Factorio co-op is well up there too.
But online play with randoms is a cesspit that I have better things to do with my time.
So couple of examples of the madness of crowds.
The infamous WoW plague and super spreaders event. Suprised some scientists because people chose to spread the plague, rather than self-isolate.
Pretty much any MMO. Want to experience sexual harrassment? Just create a female character. So waay back, there was an MMO called Star Wars Galaxies. Part of the mechanics were status damage, which could be cured by visiting a bar. There, musicians and dancers could entertain, and heal your wounds.
Or just get subjected to a variety of abuse, and indecent proposals. That could be getting /licked, or being invited to go work in a cyber brothel. Not entirely a pleasant gaming experience, although sometimes amusing being in the entertainers-only channel & discussing the various patrons.
But apparently a technique used by psychologists to study human behavior. Guessing FaceMelta didn't have those, or just ignored their advice.
I quite often create female characters in games, or play them.
People sometimes get silly with them.
Those people are very very stupid.
I like to mix things up, some games the characters look silly as male, with third person you can stare at a female bum rather than a male bum. Some have slightly different story details.
In recent weeks I have played games as a tall robot, a short soldier woman, an irish middle aged assassin, a woman with magic.
A biker.
An undead human with a lot of guns, a machine with human conciousness who punches stuff, a space magic wielding woman who is a funny colour.
Next game will be a choice, will probably go for the man despite the woman VO work being better.
Oh and I still need to finish the last Uncharted game.
Recently reread Snowcrash (which was apparently a FB management must read at some point), and thinking of that and other authors who works touch on VR and cyberspace.
I realised none of them talk about the biggest problem when creating VR, its not the massive computing power, or making sure avatars don't break into corporations and stuff.
It's perverts.
See, for example, the long and boring history of teledildonics, which hasn't exactly sent the investors into a frenzy given the investors some good vibrations.
FTFY... Come on Jake there were more then enough double entendres available, you really must try harder next time... *wink wink*
Article in the Guardian this morning on the new laws being proposed on Internet companies to moderate their content. "Sending threatening posts among offences in revised online safety bill".
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/feb/04/sending-threatening-posts-among-offences-in-revised-online-safety-bill
The paragraph that caught my eye:
The culture secretary, Nadine Dorries, said: “We are listening to MPs, charities and campaigners who have wanted us to strengthen the legislation, --> and today’s changes mean we will be able to bring the full weight of the law against those who use the internet as a weapon to ruin people’s lives <--- and do so quicker and more effectively.”
That's a pretty broad brush in terms of regulation, with no clear lines of demarcation, micromanagement of the most mundane drivel in law, with the side effect of keeping any form of protest silent.
Given the current news around No.10 Downing St parties, it's worth asking if "and today’s changes mean we will be able to bring the full weight of the law against those who use the internet as a weapon to ruin people’s lives" applies to politicians as well in terms of 'gaslighting the public', spreading 'fear' and the propaganda printed in the DM, on their behalf.
The only thing the internet will be good for at this rate is fluffy cat videos. How we used to mock Albania for only allowing Norman Wisdom films. Search engines are already lobotomised versions of their former selves.
Ministers and MPs themselves evade parliamentary scrutiny/oversight already using WhatsApp/Signal private messaging to discuss public government matters. Absolute hypocrites.
Never had such luxury in IRC... Think Zuck is trapped in his own reality distortion field, thinking he's invented a whole new way to interact...
I'm surprised you can have faces. Those suggestive winks. They can be very scary.
Mind you, this Personal Barrier would be great in the Real World© - especially while I'm in Tesco.
This Meta sounds a lot like PlayStation Home, which I had tried and instantly grew weary of. Apparently it persisted until 2015!
And also, it was on PlayStation 3, which btw is still completely awesome, even more so on a jailbroken console.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Home
As an anachronistic video gamer recently arrived at the (relative) zenith of the PS3, I am interested in what you have to say and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Oh, and harassing people conceptually or in praxis is stupid and dumb.
Unless, of course we've all consented to playing out said conceptual harassment in a 'give as you get' manner from behind an egregiously large pile of pot. Preferably the same pile.
"Oh, and harassing people conceptually or in praxis is stupid and dumb."
Of course it is. Why do you think the children do it? It's all part of a very human thing called "learning boundaries" ... and like it or not, the boundaries in the ones & zeros world are NOT the same as they are in RealLife.
"Although the Bible is anathema to members of these forums!"
As we are with any instruction manual that is internally inconsistant, illogical, and translated from language to language by people unsure of the nuances of the languages involved. Especially when the users involved cherry-pick the bits that they've been told to pick, and are told how to interpret those bits by middle managers only interested in keeping their own cushy jobs. Honestly, you'd think the users would eventually learn to read the instructions for themselves, discover the illogic and inconsistancy and translation errors, and tell the middle managers to fuck right the hell off.
Actually I don't have a problem with the Bible (or the Quran, or other venerated books) as a collection of stories and possible clues about the history of the Middle East (where I infer most of the Bible is set), per se. My beef is the people who use the Bible (or the Quran, or other venerated books) as a cudgel to beat others down, promote a self-serving agenda, keep people divided and squabbling, and generally enrich themselves (monetarily, status-ly, &c) at others' expense. As the bumpersticker said, "Dear Jesus, Save me from Thy followers."
I remembered that I set up a Second Life avatar about a decade (or so) ago. So I recovered my profile, reset my password (long since forgotten) and...
...discovered that there's no Android portal or client. So, yeah, Second Life pretty much isn't happening.
Since the very, very early days... before Fidonet and Usenet, even. I remember people bitching about harassment and "stalkers" on Community Memory in the early-mid '70s ... even before that, a Professor of mine at Berkeley recounted a co-ed getting harassed via email when he was at Stanford in the 1960s. His message was "don't harass people or you'll lose access". Naturally, some brat tested this. And promptly lost access.
...on reading the bit about a woman feeling intimidated by a group of men, and the "solution" being a "personal boundary" through which others can't pass was that it'll be a variation on the concept of people playing chicken with autonomous vehicles. eg a group of people with a software enforced "bubble" around them can trap others by surrounding them. That could be way more intimidating than simply moving away from people you don't want to be near.
In theory, you could "trap" a bubble with three other bubbles. Then have a couple hundred other bubbles rush at the center bubble simultaneously from all directions. It;s all just code, so in theory the bubbles could be automated, ensuring they all reach the center at the same time. What happens to the one bubble in the center? And to the three who have trapped it'?
They have included a "block" setting which causes the blocked user's avatar to cease to exist in your world.
Though they didn't mention what happens from their point of view - if you block some evildoer and they see you vanish, they know you blocked them and (as has happened elsewhere) take revenge via another means.
And if your avatar doesn't vanish from their POV, they can still do bad stuff. You just won't know about it until the screenshots turn up.
Seems like a public common area isn't possible. Rather like in a real life nightclub, it needs a security team watching the punters, staff to directly inform and real-world consequences.
Even then a lot gets missed, "spiking" happens far too often.
The UK spent £40bn on a fairly useless test n' trace system
No it didn't. The UK budgeted to spend £37bn over 2 years if needed. What we actually did was spend considerably less than that on tests.
However figures look to be a bit hard to easily come by - partly because this has become a political football.
A quick Google has found me lots of misleading bollocks. I have a UK Treasury document that says they spent £10bn on test and trace in fiscal year 2020-21. I've seen other reports that the contract tracing was about £1.5bn of that - so basically the rest of it was buying tests - and by the end of the year handing those out to anyone that wanted them for free.
We also spent a bit over £3bn on creating new laboratory capacity that year, which I'm not sure if it's included in that or goes in general government spending.
I'd imagine that will have gone up this fiscal year. I doubt the contact tracing system is getting much bigger. But there have been way more lateral flow tests sent out to everyone - since the end of the last lockdown - given they weren't available to everyone after the first one.
But it looks like government is currently spending about £10bn a year on allowing everyone free lateral flow tests a couple of times a week, plus PCR tests when they think they might have been infected, plus lots of genetic sequencing to pick up on variants - with a bit of contract tracing on top. As opposed to saving government money by getting people to pay for their own tests, which they won't always do.
Meta are reading from the same rule book as those in Downing St. Do as I say, not as I do.
They of course reserve the right to slither in and intimately mingle with your data.
May be they'll employ Boris after Downing St as personal ethics advisor to Zuckerberg
What’s the market for this supposed to be?!
I really don’t get it and anytime I mention to anyone that I don’t get it they (usually middle aged managers who’ve never used VR) tell me that I’m getting old and it’s going to be “the next big thing.”
It just looks and sounds like all the hype had accompanied corporates trying to jump into Second Life in the early 2000s and we were a lot more naive about VR back then.
I just don’t see the huge demand for interaction using virtual reality and avatars, other than in a gaming context. Things like the proposals to host virtual meetings using avatars just seemed so awkward and cringe inducing that I can’t see the point.
To be quite honest, unless they’ve developed the Holodeck, I will remain extremely unconvinced about VR other than in gaming context.
Real estate agents. So you can see the property they are flogging without having to physically visit the place.
Except even there it was a fad that lasted all of about a month a couple years ago. Seems people actually want to put boots on the ground before purchasing anything that expensive. Whodathunkit?
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