back to article You wood not believe what a Japanese logging company and university want to use to build a small satellite

Kyoto University and Japanese logging company Sumitomo Forestry are designing a wooden satellite, with hopes of achieving the goal by 2023. The 10cm cubesat, called LignoSat, will be made of wood and solar panels. Use of the renewable material would make it cheaper than the standard aluminium and more environmentally friendly …

  1. DJV Silver badge

    Maybe...

    ...instead of having it burn up during reentry, they could include a small container of hibernating woodworm* that will be released at the appropriate time and eat the entire thing up.

    * and, possibly, metalworm** for the non-wooden parts.

    ** ah, wait, I think I can see a slight flaw in my idea...

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Re: Maybe...

      Tinworm. Easily collected from any car of fifteen or more years vintage...

  2. Skiron
    Coat

    Oh dear

    When it fails, will they confess what wooden work correctly?

    1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Oh dear

      Just hope that none of it woodland back on earth

      1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
        Childcatcher

        Re: Oh dear

        Won't somebody think of the Ents?

      2. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

        Re: Oh dear

        No. It'll just become Ash, Yew understand.

        1. Aussie Doc
          Coat

          Re: Oh dear

          Sounds oak-ay to me.

          Sandpaper's in my pocket --->

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Oh dear

            Bark-ing mad the lot of you

    2. Korev Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Oh dear

      Do we now say leaves spaces rather than talking about re-entry?

    3. Korev Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Oh dear

      I think it's great that they're branching out into new materials

      1. Korev Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Oh dear

        It looks like they've finally twigged...

        1. AndrueC Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Oh dear

          They've obviously got to the root of the problem.

  3. Paul Herber Silver badge

    At 15,000mph I don't think it'll matter one jot whether an item of space debris is made of wood or metal!

    1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

      Re: At 15kmph I don't think it'll matter... an item of space debris is made of wood or metal

      There'll be a new kind of stardust for sure... sawdust.

    2. Chris G

      I think you will find that figure should be 13,000 knots per hour.

      1. MiguelC Silver badge

        13,000 Knots *per hour*?

        Is it accelerating?

        1. Chris G

          Re: 13,000 Knots *per hour*?

          Acceleration would be written in knots per hour/ unit of time.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: 13,000 Knots *per hour*?

            @ChrisG: 1 Knot equals 1 nautical mile per hour --> your "Knots per hour" means nautical miles per hour per hour

          2. BeefEater

            Re: 13,000 Knots *per hour*?

            Knots is a measure of speed (nautical miles per hour).

            So Knots per hour is a measure of acceleration surely.

            1. Tom 7

              Re: 13,000 Knots *per hour*?

              Not if its an incorrectly united speed.

        2. jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid Silver badge

          Re: 13,000 Knots *per hour*?

          If it's in orbit, then yes. It's a knotty problem.

  4. unimaginative
    Happy

    Why only satellites? What about wooden spaceships, preferably operated by ragged astronauts.

    1. Arthur the cat Silver badge
      Pint

      That deserves a slow glass of beer.

  5. bazza Silver badge

    If anyone can...

    Japanese carpentry is superb, so regardless of whether it works or not its going to be be extremely well made, and an exquisite objet d'art.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If anyone can...

      Indeed. I wonder if it will be rare and exquisite enough to make it valuable enough to send a retrieval rocket up for it so it can be auctioned off? Although perhaps nowadays all they need is an NFT and then having the original object burn up may actually increase its value :)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "to send a retrieval rocket up for it so it can be auctioned off?"

        Why? There will be a NFT for that....

    2. Chris G

      Re: If anyone can...

      Then there will be the cheaper version, the IKEAsat launched as a flat pack it will self assemble if it can understand the instructions and will then release an allen key, a dowel and a surplus screw into the debris field.

      1. eldakka

        Re: If anyone can...

        Flatpack Sat?

        1. Tom 7

          Re: If anyone can...

          Head clog is the nearest I can get!

        2. Ken G Silver badge

          Re: If anyone can...

          you missed "flatsat"

          1. eldakka

            Re: If anyone can...

            > you missed "flatsat"

            I was aiming more for the rhythm:

            flAt pAck sAt

      2. Down not across
        Coffee/keyboard

        Re: If anyone can...

        @Chris G

        You b...... you owe me (a clean one!) -->

        With hindsight, I should've known no story is safe for reading comments while drinking coffee.

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: If anyone can...

        "Then there will be the cheaper version, the IKEAsat launched as a flat pack it will self assemble if it can understand the instructions and will then release an allen key, a dowel and a surplus screw into the debris field."

        Otherwise known as the James Webb Space Telescope?

  6. Howard Sway Silver badge

    think 15,700mph in low Earth orbit.

    Then think : "millions of splinters travelling at that speed towards you"

    1. David 132 Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: think 15,700mph in low Earth orbit.

      Then think : "millions of splinters travelling at that speed towards you"

      Who let Detritus fire his Piecemaker?

  7. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    If the project is successful...

    Otherwise they will be lumbered.

    1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: If the project is successful...

      You could be sure that wood result in a tree mend us court claim.

  8. martinusher Silver badge

    Wood is a great structural material

    Don't underestimate it. Its limitations are primarily because it serves the needs of a tree rather than an aerospace manufacturer. It can be processed to produce source material for strong structures. Its light wight as well.

    1. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

      Re: Wood is a great structural material

      Oakzactly

    2. Mark 85

      Re: Wood is a great structural material

      Oakie dokie. Balsa for even less weight.

  9. TWB

    At last

    I thought of wooden spaceships years ago - mostly because I make things in wood and don't have decent metal working machinery and can't weld.....

    But as a semi-serious question - would they completely burn up on re-entry? - wood is often used to clad steel pillars and beams in buildings to protect them against fire - my understanding is/was, the wood chars - which is a good thermal insulator - and then no further burning takes place. (experts - please correct me here)

    1. DJV Silver badge

      Re: experts - please correct me here

      Yes*

      (* or maybe No under some circumstances where Yes isn't appropriate)

    2. Ian Johnston Silver badge

      Re: At last

      As I understand it, there are two stages to burning wood. In the first volatile compounds (and steam) are driven off and (except the steam) burn nicely. In the second stage the remaining carbon sublimes and, like coal, burns. It takes a fair bit of heat to sublime the carbon, but that won't be a problem for a re-entering woodsat.

      1. Arthur the cat Silver badge

        Re: At last

        That first stage is the basis of wood powered vehicles.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: At last

        "It takes a fair bit of heat to sublime the carbon, but that won't be a problem for a re-entering woodsat."

        I'm pretty sure that while the US and NASA was spending a fortune developing and building ablative heat shields, the USSR used hardwood.

        EDIT. Not sure if the USSR did, but China did.

    3. Old Shoes

      Wood for reentry heat shielding

      It has been used before by the Chinese.

      5.9 inches of white oak was the trick:

      https://vintagespace.wordpress.com/2016/12/05/can-a-wood-heat-shield-really-work/

      I had heard that the Soviets used plywood but I was unable to find a source other than my own head.

      1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

        Re: I had heard that the Soviets used plywood...

        Travelling at warp speed might be problematic though.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I had heard that the Soviets used plywood...

          Why? Wood warps. Sometimes it's even hard to stop it from doing so.

          :)

          1. AndrueC Silver badge
            Joke

            Re: I had heard that the Soviets used plywood...

            Yes, that can be a knotty problem.

      2. eldakka
        Coat

        Re: Wood for reentry heat shielding

        > 5.9 inches of white oak

        I didn't think the article that exciting...

    4. Mark 85

      Re: At last

      I don't think "burn-up" is the answer as such. Oxygen would be needed to burn. More like ablate in this case. Then again, I might just be wrong.

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

        Re: At last

        Well, if there's enough atmosphere to ablate it, it's likely around 20% oxygen, right?

        Mind you, I'm thinking of the regularity with which my childhood model gliders demonstrated sudden unplanned disassembly when they hit the ground (or occasionally, in the air).

        1. Tom 7

          Re: At last

          Its not like we have an ozone layer either! Having said that the speed these (well the metal ones come in quick) things come in it likely the material will be ablated from the surface and in the plume well behind by the time the temperature drops low enough for chemistry to start up again.

    5. Chris G

      Re: At last

      Have look on YT for Xyla Foxlin she made a wooden rocket that flew successfully.

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

        Re: At last

        And a christmas tree...

      2. Tom 7

        Re: At last

        Made a lot of cardboard ones.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: At last

      If I recall correctly, turning wood into charcoal requires an absence of oxygen, not easy to achieve at terminal velocity.

      That said, we're only discussing the wood burning up on re-entry, but there's also contents..

    7. jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid Silver badge

      Re: At last

      Don't know about the re-entry question, but some heat shields are designed to ablate and handle the heat that way.

      Wood is a relatively good thermal insulator, which might be a problem for a satellite made completely of wood. The metal structure is often use to conduct heat from inside and radiate it away, there being no air for convection.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: At last

        The metal body of the sat also helps protect the electronics from the nasty stuff outside too. Not having the inherent shielding of the metal outer body will probably mean designing the inside differently to compensate.

    8. that one in the corner Silver badge

      Re: At last

      Cork has been, and still is, a material used in heatshields, including ablative layers.

  10. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Will it me called the Mosquito - or whatever the Japanese word is for that?

    1. Stoneshop

      モスキート

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I was thinking "How very Steampunk" until I read the article. They actually have some valid, practical reasons for wanting to try to use wood as the structural material for a cubesat.

    I wish them luck. And I hope they keep in mind the sustainability of the wood species they choose for their experiment. Use of an endangered species should not be considered as acceptable.

    1. Sixtiesplastictrektableware

      Agree. For me, it's right up there with bio-fuel.

      Don't try and feed the people our shitty lifestyle has thrown into abject suffering and poverty, let's shove the food into our vehicles and drive around!

      Maybe this would seem less weird if not for all the clear-cutting of the last century. How many trees we actually got left to blow out into space?

  12. sreynolds

    I am guessing that the solar panels are needed to keep the sun off the timbers? I mean wood at -100 C in a vaccum not a problem but the full force of the sun would render it carbon in a vaccuum?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Sssssh. Don't give Musk the idea for space charcoal. He's already in trouble for totally ignoring the existence of other space craft in the low orbit he's polluting with Starlink.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        I'm curious about that. Were some of his sats over a 100KM too high or had the Chinese space station dropped over 100KM down to the Starlink orbit? Theoretically, Starlink Sats should never get anywhere near close enough to be a risk to them. (Other sats, potentially yes, but the space station "near misses" were in the news most recently, so I assume that's what you mean.)

  13. Spherical Cow Silver badge

    You know what else is made of wood...

    Paper! And you could fold the paper into an aerodynamic shape, for example similar to an aeroplane, and then release that into space. It would be a Paper Aeroplane Released Into Space*.

    How much does it cost to launch a cubesat anyway? If someone sets up a crowd-fund to release a paper aeroplane into space I will absolutely chip in the price of a pint, and I'm sure many other commentards would too, the goal would be reached easily.

    *For the life of me I can't think of a suitable acronym ;-)

    1. cookieMonster Silver badge

      Re: You know what else is made of wood...

      Pity there’s only 1 upvote. I still have the mug.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: You know what else is made of wood...

      Now why would you want an aerodynamic shape in a place without any, er, aero?

      Just curious :).

      1. Stoneshop
        Boffin

        Re: You know what else is made of wood...

        Just to be on the safe side.

        "Oh, we didn't account for that" is a sentence not often heard in rocket surgery.

    3. Stoneshop

      Re: You know what else is made of wood...

      Witches?

    4. David 132 Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      Re: You know what else is made of wood...

      *For the life of me I can't think of a suitable acronym ;-)

      No. Me neither. ↗️

  14. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
    Flame

    Wood panelling for the Tesla

    This match boxed sized sat should be done in partnership with another space agency like ESA or NASA.

    But if you can't find a partner use a wooden chair. Let's rock!

    1. sreynolds

      Re: Wood panelling for the Tesla

      So you saying the people that built aircraft carriers that attacked Pearl Harbour (I am sorry for mentioning the war but they did start it) and landed a probe that took samples off an asteroid are incapable of development?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wood panelling for the Tesla

        If he were, that would merit time in the jailhouse.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wood panelling for the Tesla

        that took samples off a spinning asteroid

        Let's not forget that one. Seriously impressive achievement.

  15. davidp231

    Cubesat

    Cubesat.... so THIS is where the Borg came from.

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: Cubesat

      Once it collides with V’ger, yes.

  16. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Wood?

    Let's continue the trend. Make next satellites with cardboard. Or paper. El Reg could even provide its expertise on paper spaceships.

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: Wood?

      Cardboard and cardboard derivatives are out. Or the front will fall off.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "more environmentally friendly when it burns up upon re-entry into the atmosphere"

    Citation needed. Explain to me how reducing the amount of metals/metal oxides in the upper atmosphere by 5kg or so is environmentally beneficial, when the annual amount added via meteorite impacts is on the order of 50,000,000 kg. Might as well claim you've reduced the acidity of the oceans, by chucking a bucket of baking soda in.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not be pedantic (well, OK, a bit), but that would be a valid claim. Just a swine to measure as the impact on the sea's pH would be several factors below measurable, but still factually correct.

      :)

      That said, you're comparing apples, pears and other fruit. What these people seek to address is what WE dump in the atmosphere. There's not much we can do about meteorites, but efforts to gain insight into what we can do to reduce the impact on the only home we have are IMHO to be encouraged.

  18. fidodogbreath

    This represents a massive improvement over the old stone satellites.

    1. David 132 Silver badge
      Happy

      Like the moon.

  19. Robert Feldman 1

    The Russians got there first

    Not the first wood in space -- I have read that early Russian reentry modules used green oak for the heat shield.

    1. Alumoi Silver badge

      Re: The Russians got there first

      Are we talking about Mile High Club here? Oh, not that wood, sorry.

  20. spireite Silver badge
    Coat

    I guess it'll be used for very secure comms - VPN ,,,,,, Virual Privet Network,

  21. LateAgain

    "Houston we have a ... splinter"

    Although I suspect that bamboo would work better (it usually does)

  22. David 132 Silver badge
    Happy

    Reg writers and readers, you disappoint me

    As I write this there are 78 other comments and not one person (unless my browser’s Find function is lying) has made the obvious “Captain’s Log” pun.

    1. Stoneshop

      Re: Reg writers and readers, you disappoint me

      My log does not judge.

  23. RadicalTim

    Several things spring to my mind.

    On the downside: (1). Wood will have faults in it (shakes, knots etc). To a large extent the worst faults can be removed by careful selection, but one might go through a lot of wood to find something suitable, and what's invisible on inspection might cause you problems at 10g (2) It's not isotropic (i.e., its characteristics vary by direction). It changes shape a lot across the grain but not so much along it. This makes it complicated to design something that will endure temperature swings, because the structure will distort. (3) One piece of wood will differ considerably from another of the same type, so one would need to allow a lot of margin for variation between a test prototype and a flight model. (4) Wood is an organic material, so in the vacuum of space will outgas a lot of both water (which will cause it to distort because of the anisotropy) and oils, tars etc. Those latter ones will go and find something cold to stick to (so, if you have high-precision optics, or cooled detectors, as we used to use when I did space science for money), it will seriously degrade your payload performance.

    On the upside, (1) As noted above, wood has been used as a re-entry heat shield before (by the Chinese as far as I know, and an earlier commenter has mentioned the Russians). That's because it conducts heat poorly and actually (if hardwood like oak) chars relatively slowly - oak will take about an hour to burn through one inch. (2) Often what one struggles with structures is not strength but stiffness, and for the same weight, wood is pretty much as good as metal.

  24. Colin Bain

    I fir cedar problems here

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like