back to article Windows Terminal to be the default for command line applications in Windows 11

Microsoft is to make its new Windows Terminal the default for command line applications in Windows 11. For last few years, the default terminal emulator for Windows was the Windows Console Host, conhost.exe, meaning that shells such as the Command Prompt or PowerShell opened up inside it. The open-source Windows Terminal …

  1. jake Silver badge

    When will I be able to ...

    ... stick a serial terminal onto a COM port and send it a login, so I can fix the bloody thing when the GUI goes TITSUP[0]? If MS still can't provide this capability, the OS is unfit for purpose.

    [0] Total Inability To Show the Usual Pr0n^H^H^Hictures.

    1. Paul Johnston

      Re: When will I be able to ...

      When the GUI in Windows 11 goes TITSUP what else is there?

      Can understand that from a server point of view but we are talking about desktop OS here.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: When will I be able to ...

        "When the GUI in Windows 11 goes TITSUP what else is there?"

        On a sensible OS, the Kernel is still ticking along, doing it's job. Crashing the GUI shouldn't be able to take out the kernel.

        1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

          Agreed, but the fact is that Borkzilla still doesn't know what a true kernel is.

          Windows started out as a GUI layer over DOS, and Borkzilla still hasn't made the transition to a true kernel. Everything is tied to the UI.

          Besides, if you think that Borkzilla is going to make the Windows Experience (TM) something you can stick another UI onto like in Linux, well I have a bridge to sell you.

          1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

            You’re incorrect. Everything is not tied to the UI in Windows, and Windows systems can be run without any UI stack running at all (Windows 10 IoT). Just because a configuration doesn’t make sense to offer to a wide audience, it does not follow that it’s not possible.

            If we’re speaking about “true kernels”, then as someone who uses Linux daily, generally likes doing so, and earns a living from it, I will still confidently assert that NT is a better kernel than Linux, any day of the week - it’s a shame it’s closed-source and unlikely to ever be fully opened. For that matter, so is QNX, and so is Mach or XNU, as Apple call their Mach-ish kernel. Linux’s killer advantage over all of those has never been its technological prowess, but rather its openness and fast update cycle.

            In a better version of this world, the BSD networking stack would have been brought into Linux very early on, and someone would have taken the initiative early to make the output of the Linux-specific tools much more amenable to scripting than they are. Now, those early, poor, decisions have ossified, just like they do with every mature operating system.

            (In a similar better world, MS would have got religion about twenty years earlier than they did, and would have provided a full Unix user-space on the first Windows NT release, to run beside the GUI, as Apple does on MacOS. In that world, though, I don’t think Linux would have ever got traction, and they would have extended their market dominance even further, so maybe it’s for the best on balance...)

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              I'll bite on the "...Unix user-space...to run beside the GUI, as Apple does on MacOS."

              Apple didn't just provide a GUI over top of the *nix base; they perverted the file system so badly that it is virtually impossible to do what would would be very simple on other platforms. We're wrasslin' with this right now, trying to get a basic, simple, JavaFX application running on their beasts.

              I honestly don't understand the Apple fanbois. Have you never worked with real *nix systems to think that perversion is a "real" OS? Is a fancy GUI shell so important to you that you're willing to blow off thousands of interaction and platform mistakes just so you can click an icon that is semi-transparent and created by an Apple Artiste(tm) instead of "hacked" by some open source project?

              The foundation of an OS is far more important than the GUI to people who use these beasts to earn a living...

              1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

                At launch, MacOS X was a BSD-derived Unix-based OS. Yes, that heritage means things were different to Linux (from the System V lineage), but Linux is not the definitive Unix, any more than McDonalds is the definitive meal out, or Windows the definitive GUI. Over time, the freedom to do whatever you want in MacOS has been limited (to a point where I no longer use Macs), but it fundamentally remains a Unix-based system, with fork() and file-descriptors.

                I’d suggest your problem with deploying JavaFX applications is down to “JavaFX” rather than MacOS X, but the issues appear to be in not following the packaging rules for making desktop applications under MacOS. Blaming the OS for enforcing its rules, when you didn’t even check them doesn’t make the OS wrong. You might as well complain that your Linux software couldn’t dynamically link against the .so files you’d installed directly under /etc/.

                That app-bundle folder layout might be a mild pain for developers, but it makes it really easy to completely remove applications on MacOS; and, having written tools to handle both, I can say that making an OS X app bundle is way simpler than writing a deb-file that ensures that everything gets restored properly on uninstall.

                I don’t know how to answer your rant about icons, as I didn’t mention graphics. Still, if you felt better afterward, at least someone got benefit from it...

            2. sohrobinator

              On what grounds do you assert that Windows NT is a superior kernel to the Linux kernel?

          2. stungebag

            It's odd how the server editions of Windows manage so well without a UI, isnt it?

            1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

              Apart from all the bloody server applications that require the GUI to install. Because some lazy oink developer at Microsoft hard linked GUI libraries into the installer.

          3. werdsmith Silver badge

            well I have a bridge to sell you.

            I’ll take your banal cliche bridge, because McCulloch who took the facings of the previous London Bridge to Lake Havasu City knew exactly what he was doing and very lucrative it turned out too.

            1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

              The reference to having a bridge to sell has nothing whatsoever to do with McCullough's purchase of the old London bridge. It's a reference to George C. Parker's repeated sales of the Brooklyn bridge to gullible marks, 70-odd years before.

              1. werdsmith Silver badge

                McCulloch.

                And I'll still take London Bridge.

                1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

                  Please take the current one too. It's probably the most ugly, uninspiring and just plain awful bridge in London.

    2. david 12 Silver badge

      Re: When will I be able to ...

      It was a feature of DOS, Win3, Win98, NT and 2K, but my Vista and Win7 and 2003 machines did not have a serial port: it's been decades since I wanted or needed to login through a serial port.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: When will I be able to ...

        "but my Vista and Win7 and 2003 machines did not have a serial port"

        Really? How did you survive without USB?

        "it's been decades since I wanted or needed to login through a serial port."

        Not a systems administrator, then?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: When will I be able to ...

          Personally I wouldn't be proud of torturing myself with the equivalent of green-screen technology. And if a Windows box is so far gone that I need a TTY session to fix it, then it is time to restore from backups.

          You do backups of your Windblows workstations, being a good sysadmin, right? :)

          1. jake Silver badge
            Pint

            Re: When will I be able to ...

            Personally, I find wading thru' a GUI to be far more tortuous than targeting the problem with a well chosen command or three at a shell prompt.

            In a well maintained system, the answer is almost never "reach for the backups". I have proper backups, mind ... not quite paranoid (yet), I prefer "pragmatic".

            I'm not a good sysadmin, I'm a fucking excellent sysadmin. As such, I don't do windows. Far below my pay grade.

            Not my downvote, BTW ... have a beer in compensation :-)

            1. NATTtrash
              Pint

              Re: When will I be able to ...

              "I'm not a good sysadmin, I'm a fucking excellent sysadmin."

              THX for making the sun come out this morning and me loosing a mouth full of coffee.

              I can see you getting drunk today without even reaching for that wallet...

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: When will I be able to ...

                It must be true; he said so himself! *LOL*

          2. HenryCrun

            Re: When will I be able to ...

            "Personally I wouldn't be proud of torturing myself with the equivalent of green-screen technology"

            Borkzilla want you to manage your server from a "green screen", it's called PowerShell.

          3. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

            Re: When will I be able to ...

            "You do backups of your Windblows workstations, being a good sysadmin, right? :) "

            we dont .

            Why would we?

            Theres nothing on them but an OS and some apps.

            The users store their shit on servers, that are backed up.

            .

            1. Smartypantz

              Re: When will I be able to ...

              No we don't !

              Your slow as shit "anti malware" (aka snakeoil) ridden windows "servers" are to slow and unreliable to store anything on.

              HAR - HAR

              - Nelson

        2. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

          Re: When will I be able to ...

          "it's been decades since I wanted or needed to login through a serial port."

          Not a systems administrator, then?

          If you are wanting to do that because the GIU has crashed , wouldnt you just use the network connection for that?

          RDP? or even WMI?

          It'd save you a walk too

    3. Alan Bourke

      Re: When will I be able to ...

      Never, because nobody does this.

  2. Kev99 Silver badge

    "It is frustrating in 2021 to find Microsoft blatantly engaging in anti-competitive practices once again,"...

    Here's another bit of mictosoft's shenanigans along those lines. Create a hyperlink from a ms word or other office doc pointing to Google Drive/Docs/Forms. Enjoy the quite unhelpful Google help screen. And if you click on the link it suggests, you're presented with an entirely fishy website to upgrade your browser. This bit of tomfoolery bit us today and has been reported at least since 2016.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Warm feelings

      Random blessings and typos: I will remember "mictosoft"

      1. Vometia has insomnia. Again. Silver badge

        Oh freddled gruntbuggly

        I think I first heard that word on the TV version of Hitch-Hikers' Guide 40 years back:

        "Thy micturations are to me,

        as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee" ...etc.

        1. Graham Dawson Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Oh freddled gruntbuggly

          airlock now please, if not sooner

          mine's the one with the towel in the pocket

    2. Nick Ryan Silver badge
      Stop

      Also enjoy the ridiculous issue of the Microsoft Office link poisoning the URL. Links that work directly when copy and pasted don't work when clicked from Microsoft Office. Such wonderful support for standards. :(

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The way forward

    "However, from next year, Windows Terminal will increasingly be the way forward."

    For me, the way forward seems to inevitably be Linux. I'll be one more of those tiresome "I ditched Microsoft years ago and never regretted it" people. Sorry.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The way forward

      Windows 10 makes a fine gaming platform that runs VMWare for doing the real work. As long as my VMs get backed up regularly, I don't stand to lose much except time if the box goes down hard.

      I haven't worked on Windows in well north of a decade - since an Access/VBA (*shudder*) application back in 1999-2000.

      Why would I want to develop applications for a gaming platform? :P

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        Because you'd sell more copies ?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          How much pain is one willing to go through for the sake of lucre?

          Personally, not enough to put up with the Windblows "development environment"... that is about as much fun as a root canal.

          I enjoy my job? Why would I want to turn my job into torture?

          1. Vometia has insomnia. Again. Silver badge

            I wish games developers would come to the same conclusion. It's a PITA having to maintain a Windows box just for gaming (yeah I know there's consoles, but I like modding too).

    2. Alan Bourke

      Re: The way forward

      Don't apologise, if it works for you and you don't need to run business software or games then great!

  4. Franco

    It's frustrating Vivaldi are calling out MS for this behaviour, when Google are far worse for anti-comptetive behaviour in the browser area and have been for a long time. That is NOT a defence of Microsoft BTW, it's really annoying when you get the Denholm style "ARE YOU SURE?" when you try and change the default browser.

    1. yetanotheraoc Silver badge

      Not frustrating

      Vivaldi CEO Calls Google ‘a Bully’ Over Anti-Competitive Practices

      https://www.gtricks.com/google/vivaldi-ceo-calls-google-bully-anti-competitive-practices/

  5. Chronos

    Quake mode

    +WSL running Debian/ZSH. It's not perfect but it's a damned sight better than hitting your usual hot key and not getting a command prompt when forced to use Windows.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows used to run on top of DOS

    Which meant I could zip up a fresh install of 3.11 and test install scripts on it, before wiping and re-extracting.

    1. 43300 Silver badge

      Re: Windows used to run on top of DOS

      Seem to recall that it was possible to run Windows 95 DOS without the GUI as well.

      1. 9Rune5

        Re: Windows used to run on top of DOS

        You could exit to DOS from Win95, but at that point you are left with DOS. None of the Win32 API would be available to you and you'd be hard pressed to find many differences to MS-DOS 6.22.

        1. Lusty

          Re: Windows used to run on top of DOS

          Not quite true. I seem to recall If you wanted real DOS you actually had to install DOS as well, otherwise most of it was missing. 6 disks for DOS I think, on top of the pile for '95. Some of it worked, but not all.

  7. Alan Bourke

    There's nothing more tedious

    than Linux stans, and they're half the reason we're still talking about this year being the year of Linux on the desktop.

  8. karlkarl Silver badge

    My biggest annoyance with development on Windows was when I SSH in and there is no terminal multiplexer (i.e tmux, screen).

    What do people do? Open up loads of tabs and make loads of SSH connections into the same machine? That feels janky. Or do you just add some POSIX layer and run tmux in that? Unfortunately that messes with the build environment.

    I am surprised powershell never got it. Or at least a proper fg resumable job control system.

  9. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    Windows Terminal

    I thought this article was going to be about something else.

  10. 9Rune5

    Been using it for a while

    I absolutely love it. The first thing that launches as I log in is the new Terminal.

    Mine is set up with a nice little logo in the upper corner to differentiate different systems. My ssh session to my synology box has a synology logo. My Ubuntu WSL2 installation has a penguin, and so on.

    256 color VT-102 support and modern looking (unless you switch to the 'retro' look).

    1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

      Re: Been using it for a while

      Um. VT102 was strictly a monochrome (IIRC, either green, grey or amber on black depending on the exact model).

      The colour model in the VT100 range was the VT125, but that required and external monitor for the colour display (the internal one only being greyscale), at least in the docs. I've seen.

      And the colour support was incompatible with the PC console colour escape codes that we know today.

      So I would say that if it's ANSI compatible with PC colour codes, it's probably more like xterm-256color.

      1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        Re: Been using it for a while

        My guess would have been VT110 for colour, however it was a very long time ago...

  11. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    "In the past, it was tricky to change the default console host in Windows"

    My AntiVirus used to aggressively unlink my prefered console host and halfway through a job I'd have to go back and relink it.

  12. jon_frm_nyc

    Likely not what you think...

    Using AWS, unlike Linux servers, there's no console to get onto a Windows server. If, for example, you disabled the network interface, messed up the IP, etc your system will automatically terminate unless you have some override. I suspect the same for Windows 11. I do not have experience is Azure but I suspect this is how you would get back onto your box if you fudged up the network stack or connectivity...

  13. IGnatius T Foobar !

    It's about time.

    This is long overdue. Now fix the rest of the OS :)

  14. JamesTGrant
    Happy

    SuperPuTTY is worth your time!

    Can’t recommend SuperPuTTY highly enough, open source, easy to use, plays nicely with WinSCP and provides quick and easy windowing and multi-tab session layout. Windows Terminal feels very disappointing given how much announcement there has been. It’s a not very user friendly terminal (emulator) in comparison to Mobaxterm (which I avoid but has been around forever) and SuperPuTTY.

    Agree with the tmux sentiment - tmux with a mouse would be super!

  15. Rob Daglish

    "Over the course of 2022, we are planning to make Windows Terminal the default experience on Windows 11 devices." - Are they taking their ball home after all the stick for the new taskbar?

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