back to article The ideal sat-nav is one that stops the car, winds down the window, and asks directions

Turn left. Turn right. At the roundabout, take the fourth exit. Nobody enjoys being told what to do all the time but in the case of Google Maps I will make an exception. What I like about it best is that I can ignore her directions – should dissent take my fancy – and she doesn't get cross. This is in sharp contrast with all …

  1. b0llchit Silver badge
    Megaphone

    Tech emulating real life

    Is all that technology to part ways with the person in the seat next to the driver?

    If nagging was a problem, technags are the lesser species. I'd prefer a nag from the real person of opposite sex in the other seat any time. Even if that person can raise the voice to a real level of unpleasantness. The make-up later on compensates like tech never can provide.

    Have good weekend(nag/drive).

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: The make-up later on compensates like tech never can provide

      Yet.

      1. b0llchit Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: The make-up later on compensates like tech never can provide

        Turn left.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The make-up later on compensates like tech never can provide

          No, more to the right.

        2. Christoph

          Re: The make-up later on compensates like tech never can provide

          No, no, the other left!

          1. imanidiot Silver badge

            Re: The make-up later on compensates like tech never can provide

            LEFT! Past that big tree. NOT THAT ONE, THE BIG TREE!

          2. Boothy

            Re: The make-up later on compensates like tech never can provide

            Sounds like my friend Jane!

            We've used 'My side' or 'Your side' for many years now, when giving directions from the passenger seat.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tech emulating real life

      Two memorable occasions when I had the luxury of a navigator.

      Driving through Norway we started going down the side of a steep valley through a series of narrow snow tunnels. At the bottom was a primitive ferry. As we were supposed to be on a national highway this was a surprise. Looking at the map I asked why we were going this way - "It looked pretty".

      In a city we stopped at traffic lights in the slow lane - then she announced "turn left" - across a total of five lanes of traffic.

      Another time someone was supposed to tell me when to leave the endless loop round Bergen. When I queried passing the same exit twice - she thrust the map towards me and said "you do it"

      1. johnfbw

        It looked Pretty

        Isn't that a really good reason to go that way?

        Would be happy if google maps had that option

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Tech emulating real life

        I recall, back in the late 80's, giving a couple of colleagues a lift to Brussels airport. We'd been visiting a company nearby; they were flying back to Glasgow and I was going to head on the Schiphol for my flight back to Aberdeen. My colleague in the back had the map and was trying to direct, whilst my colleague in the front passenger seat was watching out for road signs - I was preoccupied actually driving our hire-car on a particularly busy motorway. My colleagues started to disagree about the route - one saying to take the next exit, the other saying to continue straight on. Knowing most motorway exits go to roundabouts, I exited with the intention of going into a holding pattern on the roundabout. EXCEPT, this exit went straight into a busy part of Brussels and I found myself avoiding cars, bicycles, pedestrians and trams! No time to think - I just headed in the direction I thought the airport would be. And, a few minutes later, I saw a signpost confirming my instinct and, shortly after, I was depositing my passengers at the terminal.

      3. Norman Nescio Silver badge

        Re: Tech emulating real life

        Driving through Norway we started going down the side of a steep valley through a series of narrow snow tunnels. At the bottom was a primitive ferry. As we were supposed to be on a national highway this was a surprise. Looking at the map I asked why we were going this way - "It looked pretty".

        My experience of Norway is that, actually, for most of the country, that is a pretty good description of a national highway. Vast amounts of money are being spent to make the route up the coast of Norway (E39) 'ferry-free'*, but while that project is not yet complete, meandering narrow roads up and down the sides of mountains, leavened by the occasional tunnel** and 'primitive' ferry*** is normal.

        *NTNU:Coastal Highway Route E39 (English)

        Statens vegvesen:Ferjefri E39 (Norwegian)

        Wikipedia:European Route 39:Future

        The E39 is a part of the international E-road network, but you look at actual Norwegian routes, like the Rv. roads (Riksveg) which are national roads maintained by the state, rather than by the local county (or equivalent), they can, in places, be single track with cattle grids. At least none of them are still only gravel surfaced.

        **"What is it when it is not being a tunnel?", I hear you cry: well, traditional spots for HGVs to go on fire as a burnt offering to the pagan gods, necessitating detours of 10s to 100s of kilometres, if the other end has an alternative route to it at all. This is a tunnel on one of the main routes (the E16) over the mountains from Bergen to the East of Norway and Sweden. Wikipedia(Norwegian):Kvamskleivtunnelen .

        ***The primitive ferries are increasingly electric: Energi&Klima: Elektriske bilferger i Norge (Norwegian)

        1. Mooseman Silver badge

          Re: Tech emulating real life

          " the occasional tunnel"

          We were driving through Norway a couple of summers ago in the motorhome, which was now and then a slightly hair raising experience, and found ourselves in a tunnel. After 7km we passed a brightly lit rest area. Mrs M asked what those signs were every 1000m that looked like this 7/25, 8/25...it was a LONG tunnel (24.5 km according to wikipedia) but at least it was reasonably lit, and had a actual tarmac surface, unlike several others we found.

          I quite liked the ferries to get across various fjords, apart from the cost (and I was still getting toll payment invoices 6 months later from the auto toll system on the roads), it added to the holiday experience. I can imagine doing it daily would get tedious pretty fast.

    3. swm

      Re: Tech emulating real life

      I've noticed that people with GPS etc. have lost their sense of direction.

  2. tiggity Silver badge

    wine predictions

    Irrelevant if neuroscience can predict my wine preference..

    As it plays little role in the wines I buy.

    .. Buying process is

    1. Go into wine selling shop / or visit wine website

    2. Are any of the wines we really like in my price range

    99% of the time step 3 is then, of course none of the good stuff is in your price range, buy a small number of bottles of some cheap plonk

    Very rarely, step 3 is does double take, something we really like and not at a stupidly high price, calculate available "unallocated on other expenditure" budget, buy as many bottles as budget allows, as even though I know the amount we buy will run out before a good wine is again affordable, at least it means we have a few really enjoyable bottles ahead.

    So 99% of the time "AI" could predict my buys without knowing my preferences

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: wine predictions

      Be interested to see what it will predict my wine preference will be.....

      I don't drink (never acquired the taste, and after seeing other people drunk - don't want to!)

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        You can drink without getting drunk.

        It's just a question of managing the quantity.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Don't get me wrong - I don't stop other people if they want to drink and get drunk. It's when other innocent people get hurt or effected by it (suppose drunk driver is an extreme example), but it's not for me.

          1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

            If you're drunk you don't drive.

            At least, that is how it should be.

            1. Charles 9
              Joke

              What do you mean?! That's half the fun of being plowed! See all those headlights coming at you and try to figure out which two are the real ones.

              We're talking people who see a storm and immediately think, "Car Skiing!"

          2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            " I don't stop other people if they want to drink and get drunk."

            You appear to be working on the assumption that being "drunk" is a situation that occurs after any amount of alcohol is consumed.

          3. ICL1900-G3

            Downvoted for being sanctimonious AND 'effected' instead of 'affected'.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              I don't tell people I don't drink, just give the excuse that I'm driving, so don't think that counts as being sanctimonious.

              Give you the affected/effected though.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                And if they counter you're a lightweight because you can't drink and drive like a REAL real person...?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Nearly but not quite

          Pascal, it's not managing the quantity that is the problem. It is managing the time you have available to drink the desired quantity.as in, there is 20 minutes left to closing time so you have to speed up the drinking rate to get the final 3 pints supped. Or me and my mates do anyway

          1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

            Re: Nearly but not quite

            You call it managing time, I call it m anaging quantity. It's the same difference.

            If I don't have the time to drink a can of beer, I'll drink half of it.

            And if I have 20 minutes to go, I'm not going to be ordering more than one pint. I don't set myself mandatory glass quotas to start with.

      2. My-Handle

        Re: wine predictions

        I do drink, but like you I never acquired the taste for wine.

        I'm betting the Neuroscience would probably spend ages analysing me, before declaring that I'd likely be fond of a full and fruity Merlot or some such thing. And then the researchers would get quite pouty when I reply that "none" was the right answer.

        That's the thing about a lot of tech, even the newer machine learning / AI. They can never think outside the parameters that their developers originally programmed in.

        1. Tom 7

          Re: wine predictions

          I acquired a taste for wine but then they started adding sulphites by the bucket load. Its supposedly a preservative but is used in quantities that affect the taste, and give me a raging hangover. My pa in law got some sulphite 'free' red for one of his wedding anniversaries so I could have a glug and it was preferred by all who tried it - so I ended up on scotch. What a pity!!

          I have my own black strawberry grapes with produce a superb red - or did until last winters storms did for the polytunnel. I'm going to take about 300 cuttings next spring and plant them out sans grafting and hope the phyloxera people dont come calling!

    2. Chris G

      Re: wine predictions

      I don't drink very often but I do appreciate a decent wine when being sociable. The local Mercadona supermarkets here have had an excellent red called Armonico, no idea of the grape, reasonably alcoholic and sells for the incredibly reasonable price of €1.99 the next best is about €5.00 which is expensive here.

      But, I do need to explore the thousands of other decent wines in the supermarkets of Spain, something I am looking forward to.

      Satnag wise, I hate the bloody things, in Spanish or English, whatever system I am using either tells me to turn half a kilometer too soon or just as I am passing the turn then I miss the recalculation because both my wife and I are too busy calling the satnag rude names in English , Russian and Spanish.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: wine predictions

        "the next best is about €5.00 which is expensive here."

        It's not common to find a red at that low a price in the UK at all. And with the new duty rules, red will go up as it's a generally a higher alcohol content than white. Post-Brexit rules mean alcohol duty is being partially simplified and will be more based on alcohol content rather than type of drink. Those into sparkling white wines will probably benefit the most.

        1. Stoneshop
          Trollface

          Post-Brexit rules mean alcohol duty is being partially simplified

          Commonwealth wines lower duties, others higher.

        2. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: wine predictions

          It was sold as being simplified, but it's being complicated...

    3. Franco

      Re: wine predictions

      (Some) Wine drinkers assume that because I like Scotch Whisky (don't have a particular preference for a region though, I like a good Speyside Malt just as much as full peaty Islay Malt) that I like a full bodied red wine. In fact I don't like red wine at all, in part because I find many red wines that I've tried to have a cloying texture that coats my throat and also I generally (except for Whisky) have a dislike for room temperature beverages, and so prefer a chilled white wine, even with red meat.

      This of course really annoys the "purists", the sort of arseholes who try to tell you if you don't have your steak cooked the way they do that you're ruining good meat or have an unrefined palate.

      1. Chris G

        Re: wine predictions

        @Franco

        The best drink is the beverage you like, at the temperature you like, regardless of whatever the 'rules' are.

        I find many purists are purists because they have no imagination and are unable to think for themselves, in the same way that avid followers of fashions have no style of their own so they borrow somebody else's idea of style.

        1. Terry 6 Silver badge

          Re: wine predictions

          Absolutely. The red for meat white for fish nonsense can go for a start. And well done beef is just a different way of enjoying beef. You can enjoy either or both.

          1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

            Steak & Lobster !

      2. Dr_N

        Re: wine predictions

        Franco> have a dislike for room temperature beverages

        Try a Brouilly.

        1. Franco

          Re: wine predictions

          Thanks, I'll keep that in mind next time I'm at a restaurant.

  3. chivo243 Silver badge
    Go

    Was expecting

    this weeks video to be Talking Heads Road to Nowhere!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQiOA7euaYA

  4. Red Ted
    Go

    Steering Wheel Experience

    You'd better have a look at a couple of steering wheels Stirling Moss was holding when he crashed....

    I think he experienced those steering wheels quite thoroughly!

  5. Gomez Adams

    I called the lady on my old Garmin sat-nav Mona. :)

    I always turn the volume down to zero when using any sat-nav these days.

    1. Dave Pickles

      The satnav in my BMW begins every instruction with "please". Of course to suit the stereotypical Beemer driver it should also add "... unless you know better".

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Must be Canadian eh.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Windows

        "Of course to suit the stereotypical Beemer driver it"

        ... ensures the non existent indicators are fully disabled.

        1. BenDwire Silver badge
          Joke

          The most pointless job in the world? Fitting indicators to German cars ...

          Or as the excellent Lee Mack once said, "Are there any BMW drivers in tonight?" <audience cheers> "See! You can indicate!"

          1. Potemkine! Silver badge

            That must be something local.

            I'm a bimmer myself (I made the mistake to buy another brand once, will never do the mistake again) and I always use the indicators, it's a pavlovian reflex. Must be the only one to do it, it seems that in France it's a national sport not to use them.

        2. Barrie Shepherd

          Blinkers just lacking fluid

          .. ensures the non existent indicators are fully disabled.

          BMW blinkers need regular top ups of Blinker Fluid .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6GsXhBb10k

        3. Mooseman Silver badge

          I drove my brothers (rather flash) beemer while we were on holiday, and left a lot of people very confused when I both indicated when turning, and (gasp) let people through when merging with traffic. I also found that you can actually drive more than 5 feet from the car in front.

        4. werdsmith Silver badge

          No, indicator lights on BMW and Audi cars must be operational so they can be used in hazard mode. This allows the drivers of these marques to park anywhere they like.

    2. Tom 7

      I tried the Ella Fitzgerald voice for my scat nav but missed every dowa turn tobedobedoebo fati dabby dabby twenty yards ago .

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Joke

        > I tried the Ella Fitzgerald voice for my scat nav but missed every dowa turn tobedobedoebo fati dabby dabby twenty yards ago .

        Scat nav: now turn left into Cleo Laine.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Years ago I tried to discover how long it would take to drive from Stirling to Perth, so went to 'maps.google.co.uk' and entered the names... 'no route'... huh?

    After a lot of faffing around I discovered entering 'Perth' on its own into 'maps.google.co.uk' (yes, '.co.uk') took me to Western Australia!

    (since been fixed)

    Not long after Hammersmith Bridge was closed because it was deemed structurally unsound I discovered that Google Maps had demolished the whole thing and was just showing a couple of piers in the middle of the river!

    1. Julian 8 Silver badge

      If they don't fix it soon, that is all that will be left

    2. Hugh Pumphrey

      Bridges that are not there

      Even more entertaining was driving across the new Forth Road bridge in a car whose SatNav was unware that they had built the thing. Realising that she was installed in a FLYING CAR, the bossy lady was stunned into awed silence until I rejoined the M90 on the north side of the bridge.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Had a look at that steering wheel advert - seems like a glorified mobile phone holder to me! I already have buttons on my steering wheel to answer/reject calls and to control the radio.

    Thought it would be a joystick or something......

    1. Kevin Johnston

      More to the point, becuase you have reduced the number of controls to those immediately under your thumbs that will incerease distracted driving rather than reduce it as you need to navigate through menus to find the bit you want to change and then make the change...that will be a few seconds when your eyes are looking at thinsg inside the car rather than outside.

      There was a judge who made a very good comment about speed cameras causing people to spend too much time watching their speedo instead of the road and this would be worse as it would kick in every time you wanted to alter the heating/wipers/radio/lights...great idea that

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        "There was a judge who made a very good comment about speed cameras causing people to spend too much time watching their speedo instead of the road and this would be worse as it would kick in every time you wanted to alter the heating/wipers/radio/lights...great idea that"

        Didn't Tesla and other already go down the route of touch screens with no physical sensing of where you touching or feedback to say you activated to virtual control? My car doesn't have anything like that, all physical knobs and buttons and I can adjust pretty much anything without having to look, at worst a quick fraction of a second glance.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Although my car has a touch screen, it also has knobs and buttons as well as on wheel controls for the most common functions (volume, station, cruise control).

          There are controls for operating a phone on the wheel as well, but I just don't use a phone while driving, hands free or not. If someone calls me or sends a message it waits until I stop.

        2. werdsmith Silver badge

          I can adjust anything too, without looking - just with voice commands

    2. Gerhard den Hollander

      Saab

      Saab,

      Back in the previous Millennium had a proof of concept car that used a joystick in stead of a steering wheel.

      Since steering wheels are not what you'd want to enter your body when you hit something this made sense from a safety point of view

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Saab

        Of course, even in the previous millennium, collapsible steering columns were a thing.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Saab

          Or a chauffeur!

          1. Montreal Sean

            Re: Saab

            Definitely don't want a chauffeur entering my body during a crash!

            Sounds painful.

            1. Jan 0 Silver badge

              Re: Saab

              You should watch the film*, tastes vary.

              * Crash

      2. Aleph0
        Joke

        Re: Saab

        Depends on personal inclinations I guess, for me personally I don't want a joystick entering by body either...

      3. Andy A
        Happy

        Re: Saab

        As manufacturers of fighter aircraft, they would have experience of what are known as sidesticks. Moving a lightweight joystick, placed just where it is most comfortable, is very easy when compared with a control column, especially in high-G situations.

        Of course gamers would be disappointed to find that such a device in a car would fail to point the vehicle skywards.

    3. jmch Silver badge

      Also, the position, placement, tactile feedback etc of stalk-mounted controls has been refined and improved over close to 100 years. All these controls can be used without lifting hands off the wheel.

      Tactile feedback on a touch interface is all well and good, but you still need to look to see where you're touching. Physical controls allow for tactile feedback while searching for the specific control you want, meaning the correct control can be activated without having to look at/for it.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My experience

    "Not only does it have a penchant for taking me on pointlessly circuitous routes, the wrong way up one-way streets, and along shortcuts too narrow for a bicycle, it grows angrier by the second when I refuse its orders."

    It is also my experience of cars embedded SatNav. The little shits never want to re-calculate any path, which makes it useless when a road is closed, you'll always get back there unless you spend 30 mins finding how to make it understand you WON'T go there !

    As for G map, it is utterly shit for driving. It's not a SatNav but a social network, with half (if your phone is vertically held) or 80% (if horizontally held) of the screen encumbered by all the places others have been to (you don't care), every good restaurant/carpet shop/etc ... in the vicinity (you don't care), leaving only 2 cms for your path ! Fuck it, it's only good for walking in big towns.

    Myself, I have a really good TomTom Premium X I can put in any car, and it's golden. I can even navigate a map on my computer, and push it to the device !

    I wouldn't use anything else for driving.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My experience

      I have always preferred a stand alone Tomtom - I can plan/update routes at home and it has all the maps built in.

      Many moons ago, before Google maps were a thing, I had a Psion with maps that had to be downloaded manually. A colleague had a "smart" phone, but he had managed to get lost in a dead zone with no signal and so couldn't download new maps. I realise that technology has moved on, but I don't feel comfortable relying on a mobile.

      Overheard in office - one lady had taken her car to the garage for a service, and she was charged £90 for them to update the inbuilt satnav!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: My experience

        I could never get along with standalone units - too big, too many wires, sucker marks all over the windscreen, and so on (IMO). I hate my Ford satnav, though I will use it at a push.

        But I use the TomTom Go app for longer journeys. I prefer it over Google because I can create specific routes on my PC and sync them to the app, and you also have the extra functions you'd expect from a dedicated satnav.

        1. KBeee

          Re: My experience

          I once had my passenger door window broken and a Tomtom nicked from the glovebox. Reported it to the police (just to get the Crime Number for insurance, not in the hope of getting the satnav recovered).

          A nice Policewoman asked me

          "Do you stick it to your windscreen when you use it?" I answered yes.

          She said "Criminals see the ring left by the suction cup left on the screen, so know there's a good chance the satnav will be in the glovebox."

          1. Tom 7

            Re: My experience

            I inherited my dads old TomTom which is so out of date I spend a lot of time apparently driving through fields. The one that came with my VW caddy can be updated for more than the price of a new car.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: My experience

              Thing that is a dad thing - out of date maps!

              Mine had an AA* book of maps of the UK 1977, he used it for about 20 years!

              * UK definition - Automobile Association, am I right in thinking AA is different for US?

              1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
                Pint

                Re: My experience

                We had a old RAC Itinerary, that my father had every time we had to go to Norfolk to see family (Avoiding Motorways & London, at his request).

                The route changed a bit over the 15 years (New roads & discovered shorter routes) but it was used up until the early - mid 80's & basically became a list of way points.

              2. Charles 9

                Re: My experience

                Add a third A and you get the American equivalent (Triple A). AA in America tends to reference what's better shortened to AlAnon.

                1. Jan 0 Silver badge

                  Re: My experience

                  <pedant mode> AlAnon is for people who hneed to cope with alcoholics.

                  1. Charles 9

                    Re: My experience

                    Pedant mode unnecessary. I simply referred to it to explain that AA in America is something unrelated to automobiles whereas AAA (the American Automobile Association) is much more germane.

        2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

          Re: My experience

          sucker marks all over the windscreen

          I prefer the clips that hook into the airvent slots, no obscured windscreen & usually in a more convenient place to see/use.

          1. Terry 6 Silver badge

            Re: My experience

            Student daughter is too young to use CDs in her car. But there is a phone holder that fits into the CD slot. Out of the box it isn't great, too loose. But since she's never going to need the slot for CDs, a bit of double sided tape does the job.

            OTOH we've had a sequence of Hondas. They have built in (Garmn) Satnavs which are pretty much crap. Because even after they've been updated (included in our service plan) they aren't up to date. For example where the new S bound exit from the M1 to M6 was opened it still tried to take us past the slip road down the M6 section to (wherever), after it had been updated. Also, it seldom picks up on, or calculates delays and speed restrictions- even long standing ones where they're making the new killer (smart) lanes

            And its routing can be bizarre. Once we had to visit a flat in Regent's Park. It took us into a park entrance and told us to turn right. We weren't sure where the flat was but had thought it was to the left. Satnav took us on an anticlockwise journey out of the park, down to the Euston rd and back up into the park. Arriving at the flat about 150 metres from where we'd entered the park- but 45 minutes later!

            Now we use Waze on our phones, with a holder in the air vent. It isn't nice and big like the inbuilt satnav, but it gets us where we need to be very efficiently.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: My experience

        Overheard in office - one lady had taken her car to the garage for a service, and she was charged £90 for them to update the inbuilt satnav!

        That's cheap. I had a company insist on buying me a Mercedes as company car. Turns out that to have the maps actually up to date (read: current as of the date of the sale of the car) they wanted some €500 on top of the €40k that the thing would already cost. Yes, really, apparently Mercedes considers having maps up to date in a brand new vehicle actually optional.

        I bought my own car.

        Most new cars have the Car Play thing for both Apple and Android, so you can choose between bleeding personal information to Google Maps (occasionally useful if you're looking for something specific), Apple Maps (not quite as useful although it has massively improved of late) and TomTom (useful, but not in every country and prone to add "features" either without telling you or by means of a badly timed popup -typically when you just want to get on- which you cannot re-activate later to read WTF they changed this time. Also lowest on bandwidth - just traffic data).

        That tends to offer enough options :)

    2. eldel

      Re: My experience

      >I can even navigate a map on my computer, and push it to the device !

      You can do that on google maps as well. Along with rest stops, fuel stops etc. An interesting twist I found on this the other day is that if you 'export' the route as a link - you can just save that link. That way you can have a list of routes in a file which you just click to activate in gmaps and then push to the phone. Actually works quite well.

      I don't know if they've pushed this capability to the civilized world yet - but combining that with the maps download means that you effectively have a standalone gps unit.

    3. Tim99 Silver badge

      Re: My experience

      One reason why I bought a near “poverty pack” Golf was to avoid the built-in SatNav - The extras pack that I did buy had everything I wanted, side and rear detection (my neck is stuffed) radar cruise control with traffic assist (useful, if you do actually monitor what the car is actually doing. I connect my phondlephone to CarPlay, and Apple Maps has improved to do pretty much what I want. The paid Sygic app is worth the money to me, as it has downloaded maps and still shows you where you are without needing a reliable phone signal (it can be pretty patchy here, and even Telstra only works well where people live).

      As the roads seem to have changed a lot since I lived in the UK I paid Sygic for the UK maps just before COVID expecting to travel there, but our State has a tight lockdown, and travelling abroad is a no-no. In a population of 2.8 million we have 7 active cases, and have had 9 deaths in total. Currently there are almost no restrictions, other than travel, and masks are not required by the general population, but we expect that to change when we open up next year (90% of 16+ population inoculated?).

    4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: My experience

      "Myself, I have a really good TomTom Premium X I can put in any car, and it's golden. I can even navigate a map on my computer, and push it to the device !"

      Same here, although a decent Garmin in my case. In-car sat-navs were pretty shit in the various hire cars I've had over the years. Usually out of date, hard to use, too low down to see properly without taking your eyes off the road, and often poor at routing or re-routing.

      Cheap SatNavs aren't a lot better and Googles Maps is barely useable for car navigation because, as you say, too much unwanted shit on the screen.

      It helps if, when buying a sat nav, the buyer looks into it properly as with any other tech purchase and looks for something with support and updates, especially mapping updates.

    5. Warm Braw

      Re: My experience

      I hired a car in Madeira and the in-built satnav without fail would pick side roads with large 'no entry' signs or near-vertical tracks over the serviceable - if ambitiously titled - 'express' routes. As soon as I returned to something resembling tarmac, on the right side of the road, it would suggest I follow a goat.

      I ended up doing the unthinkable and using the road signs for coarse navigation and the locals for the final detail.

      1. ThatOne Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: My experience

        Previous user had set the satnav's preferences to "scenic routes" perchance?

        1. Terry 6 Silver badge

          Re: My experience

          No previous user

    6. jmch Silver badge

      Re: My experience

      I mostly use G maps on my phone in preference over the built-in one, it's not bad but terribly out of date. Don't know what settings you have on your Google Maps, but in landscape mode mine shows 100% map, roads, route + useful information. Nothing else. You might need to twiddle your settings a bit!

      Dedicated unit for my motorbike is the best, though!

  9. Franco

    I've never understood why people are so obsessive about integrated satnavs, Top Gear used to go on about it constantly for example (been many years since I watched it though) and some of my friends are the same. They aren't very good generally, always out of date and an update is almost always a ridiculous price.

    I was cursing Google Maps a lot recently as I was trying to find a nightclub in Edinburgh because I was going to a gig there. After much swearing at GM I had to change the source of my fury, turned out the club had changed names 2 weeks earlier but not put an announcement out or told the bands that were booked to play.

    1. Tom 7

      I was out walking the dog a few weeks ago and passed a band looking baffled outside a brewery that had closed a few months ago and forgot to cancel them

      1. Franco

        I tweeted the band to tell them I was unhappy with the venue (also had a stupidly early curfew because it was Saturday night and they wanted drinkers in and not giggers, so why book a band on a Saturday night then?) and they apologised to me and the other affected people, they hadn't been told either.

        Was annoyed because I missed the support band, had checked them out on Youtube and they seemed promising.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. zuckzuckgo Silver badge

      I am addicted to Android Auto for the live traffic. I know where I am going but between construction and traffic the least frustrating way to get there changes on a daily basis.

    4. Denarius

      Satnavs

      process for updating is a ripoff. Tried to update the satnav in an emergency vehicle used by a volunteer unit. Some of the smaller communities we go to even locals 30 km away have never heard of so updated maps matter. This being Oz, phone coverage is variable to nonexistent so built in it is. Following the vehicle users manual to web site and find demands for big money. So its downloads Google maps to phone and hope for best. IMHO, Google beats N**m*n units hands down. On long trip, a mere 600 km, Google pointed out a good but obscure road that took over 100km off. The dedicated N* unit insisted the road could not be used, regardless of settings. That turned into a minor amusement where I ran Google against the other unit to see which one had the highest error rate. Google generally best except in very minor backroads. Needless to day I still plan my longer trips using printed maps. One can see the trip in entirety and spot tolerable shortcuts off major highways. I will look at TomsTom for next unit though.

      1. ThatOne Silver badge

        Re: Satnavs

        I had a very capable stand-alone satnav (high-end Mio) for years, until the GPS date rollover somehow bricked it (it now randomly loses position for various amounts of time). It had good worldwide maps (I used to take it with me on trips, to use with rental cars), a good, big, easy to read screen, and was always very prompt to recalculate if I missed an exit.

        I really regret it, apparently there is nothing comparable nowadays, no matter the price. Instead of going high-end and up their game, stand-alone satnav makers apparently dropped the ball and only release basic units full of "social media" nonsense, and the one thing I definitely require on a satnav is no internet connection. Not only isn't it always available, but most of all I do not (really! I mean it!) want to be flooded with ads - sorry, "suggestions". Even "personalized" ones.

        Now I have an (offline) navigation app on my phone, which works quite well, also has regularly updated worldwide maps (you can tell the app to use the SD card if your phone accepts one), but it's obviously less user-friendly than my old dedicated unit (screen size, GUI). It is much cheaper though, about 1/10th of the price. *shrug*

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Satnavs

          "I really regret it, apparently there is nothing comparable nowadays, no matter the price. Instead of going high-end and up their game, stand-alone satnav makers apparently dropped the ball and only release basic units full of "social media" nonsense, and the one thing I definitely require on a satnav is no internet connection. Not only isn't it always available, but most of all I do not (really! I mean it!) want to be flooded with ads - sorry, "suggestions". Even "personalized" ones."

          As I said previously (OP of subject "My experience"), relying on mobile data for maps is a big NO in my books as well.

          A good TomTom doesn't need mobile data, except for optional traffic info in real time.

          That is, contrary to many mobile apps.

          And there is no social media crap on a TomTom either.

          Have a look at them !

  10. Anonymous Custard
    Joke

    Wandering Aimlessly

    As the old saying goes, "Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do..."

    1. Giles C Silver badge

      Re: Wandering Aimlessly

      Well maybe in America or Milton Keynes bit round here you will probably end up in the next town first.

      1. vtcodger Silver badge

        Re: Wandering Aimlessly

        "Well maybe in America ..."

        In New York City or Los Angeles, usually. In New England, rarely. In Boston, never

        1. yetanotheraoc Silver badge

          Re: Wandering Aimlessly

          Ah, driving in Boston. Have you read "Wild in the Streets"? I laughed 'till I cried. Have seen all those antics (my favorite is the one right, two lefts, then a right make a left; read the book to understand how it works), have done quite a few myself, and my grandmother and mother have some stories that could have been in the book. For many many years my approach to Storrow Drive was wrong-way down a one-way street. Had a girlfriend who would drive to just before Alewife, then get out and make me drive the rest of the way to downtown Boston. I hate driving, and in Boston it hated me back. I admit I was part of the problem!

          https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2686145-wild-in-the-streets

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wandering Aimlessly

        The company sent two of use to work in the South African office. Although they drove on the left too - we soon discovered that if you missed a turn in the countryside you couldn't use English "left, left, left" strategy. You had to turn back.

        It didn't help that the intercity motorway didn't have u-turn bridges at intersections. So you basically had to exit and keep going to the next town. The same happened to me on a German autobahn when I discovered that the international "E" route signs didn't exist to help long distance navigation. The road choices were always to the next local towns - not even a distant major city.

        Going over a hill on a South African starlit night. I sensed rather than saw - a shadow across my path. A massive freight truck and trailer were crossing the central reservation (no barriers) to get back to the exit they had just missed. The truck cab had the usual set of green lights on top - but they were invisible sideways on.

        1. Tom 7

          Re: Wandering Aimlessly

          A relative of ours in OZ went to visit another a short few hundred miles away on a straight road. On the way back they were killed when they dropped into a dip in the road that had been created by an earthquake while they were visiting.

          Not sure you average sat nav can keep up with that shit.

    2. My-Handle

      Re: Wandering Aimlessly

      Depends how far left or right you're turning...

    3. Chris G

      Re: Wandering Aimlessly

      Three lefts in the Spanish countryside could send you in literally any direction. Road direction is governed largely by topography.

      When they were still building the E15/A7 on the Mediterranean coast, I was driving from Gib' to Barcelona, somewhere around Alicante the road just stopped and had a detour sign inland, that was the only sign and it took me several hours and a rage stop to get back to the E15.

      1. ThatOne Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Wandering Aimlessly

        On a T-junction inside a small village in France, I once saw a sign pointing left: "All directions", and a sign pointing right "Other directions"...

        Unfortunately I was driving so I wasn't able to take a picture.

        1. Norman Nescio Silver badge

          Re: Wandering Aimlessly

          Like this one?

          http://www.autoentusiastas.com.br/ae/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Toutes-directions.jpg

          It's not mad, although it seems like it. Once you know the process, it makes a great deal of sense.

          If you think of a town encircled by a ring road, with roads radiating out to other towns, the Toutes Directions (TD) sign will send you in a circle around the ring road, as, if you follow the TD directions, when you come to junctions, subsidiary signs will point to named destinations - that is, the process is: follow the loop until you reach an exit condition.

          Autres Directions is a generic sign for local destinations, so on the ring road will likely point to exits sending you towards destinations within the town. Once on a road into the town, you'll see signs for the actual multiple (local) destinations, and probably TD signs pointing towards the ring-road.

          NN

          1. Terry 6 Silver badge

            Re: Wandering Aimlessly

            When my kids were little, driving in France, we'd tell them we were going to drive through "Toutes". Because there'd be the sign "Toutes Directions". We told them it was the most important city in France so there were signs for it everywhere..

            1. Norman Nescio Silver badge

              Re: Wandering Aimlessly

              Much like the innumerable places called Ausfahrt in Germany.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Wandering Aimlessly

              "When my kids were little, driving in France, we'd tell them we were going to drive through "Toutes". Because there'd be the sign "Toutes Directions". We told them it was the most important city in France so there were signs for it everywhere.."

              If it was France, for sure you've spotted the famous "Autres Directions" sign which points the other directions than the "Toutes Directions" sign, both of course, being on the same pole, for clarity :)

          2. ThatOne Silver badge
            Thumb Up

            Re: Wandering Aimlessly

            > Like this one?

            Almost. Mine had no other signs whatsoever, just those two, which made it more striking.

            Yes, I understand the rationale for those signs: "Other directions" is usually paired with another sign, like "This way for [Locality], take the other way for all other places". As for "All directions", it only means that this is the only way to eventually get out of the maze you're in...

  11. Dr_N
    Trollface

    Take Me To The Bridge

    Navigated back okay from last week's pont, Mr Dabbs?

  12. Pen-y-gors

    Bring back the rudder!

    Interesting, one of the terms in Cymraeg for steering (as in English I suppose) comes from the word for 'rudder'.

    Why doesn't someone re-introduce the rudder as a way of controlling motor vehicles? Far more relaxed having a long rudder running up the middle of the car, with your appropriate elbow gently resting on it and giving it a twiddle from time to time. I believe some very early automobiles did actually use a tiller mechanism rather than a wheel. Have to be rear-wheel drive of course.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bring back the rudder!

      Early cars often had a front wheel tiller derived from a cart's front axle. A boat rear rudder - or directly controlled outboard motor - confuses most people as the direction it effects is counter-intuitive. Even with a steering wheel to match direction -- you have to adjust to the difference in the way the boat follows your intended line - as it pivots at the rear.

      1. yetanotheraoc Silver badge

        Re: Bring back the rudder!

        There's a pre-test: If you can successfully back the boat trailer to the launch site, then you should have no trouble steering the boat with the counter-intuitive rudder.

      2. herman

        Re: Bring back the rudder!

        With a sail boat you use the tiller to move the bow in the desired direction. Which way to move the tiller depends on various factors and is not necessarily what you would think. If the bow goes the wrong way, you flip the tiller the other way.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You're On Your Own, Pal

    About ten years ago, I went to a gig in Glasgow. It was at the Old Fruit Market.

    At the time, I subscribed to Orange Maps (remember that?), and with my phone in its cradle, I set off on the 300 mile journey. All went well until I reached somewhere near Lesmahagow - and my phone lost the connection. Nothing would make it reconnect to Orange Maps, though there was a phone signal.

    I didn't have a clue where the Old Fruit Market was, and that side of Glasgow was a mystery, too. But I was still at least 50km away from my destination.

    I frantically searched Google Apps for a free satnav app, and even downloaded one painfully slowly, when I suddenly remembered the Google Maps beta (with 3D) function.

    Within a minute I was on my way, it took me directly to a car park, and then the 'on foot' feature took me step-by-step through the streets to the venue a short distance away.

    I cancelled Orange Maps the next day.

  14. GBE

    Paying extra for devices to shut up?

    Almost 40 years ago, one of the first projects I worked on as a new engineer was evaluating speech synthesis chips for possible inclusion in a cellular phone so that it could talk to you instead of just displaying things on a small, 2-line display. The marketing folks were quite keen on the idea that people wanted things to talk to them, but the rest of us joked that the real plan was to include it in the base model options and charge extra to turn it off.

    1. Paul Herber Silver badge

      Re: Paying extra for devices to shut up?

      Is that the way you like it Mr Beeblebrox?

  15. Sam not the Viking Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Before Sat Nav

    It was the 1970's, and one of our engineers lived half-way down a hill, On his return from whatever job he'd been doing he would switch off the engine at the top, coast down the hill and swing soundlessly into his drive. Equally soundlessly, his van was stolen from the driveway.

    Force of habit is strong and his new van, now fitted with an in-built steering lock, introduced him to his neighbour's front lawn via the dividing brick wall. I don't know if the anti-theft alarm went off as well.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Before Sat Nav

      Modern steering locks only engage when you remove the key. That one sounds dangerous!

  16. AndrueC Silver badge
    Facepalm

    A few years ago I went for a job interview in Richmond, Yorkshire. Driving up there from Brackley was a bit tedious but they'd agreed to pay my mileage so whether I got the job or not I was going to be quids in (A Honda Jazz bimbling along the motorway at 60 mph does not come close to burning what they agreed to pay). Anyway after the interview(*) I got into the car, started my sat nav app and put my belt on.

    "Please head south".

    And that was all it said for about ten minutes. I mean I can't fault the advice for accuracy but it wasn't particularly helpful.

    The funniest though was when I asked my first Smart Nokia to get me from Llandudno to Newton Stewart. It wanted to send me to Liverpool, along the docks and then the immortal phrase 'Follow the Ferry for 75 miles". Instead I decided to drive out to the M6 and turn left. It seemed safer :)

    (*)I got the job which actually resulted in 14 months working in Birmingham.

    1. Martin an gof Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Follow the Ferry for 75 miles

      I can't believe the number of times, still in 2021, that we get told (often by Real People in a call centre) something along the lines of "your nearest shop / garage / plumber is in Weston Super Mare" when we live near Cardiff. Possibly literally correct - if you go in a straight line across the Severn - but for all practical purposes, utterly wrong.

      Never personally used a standalone satnav device, but the unit in my wife's car is woefully ambiguous with directions (umm, yes, there are three turnings left within the next two hundred yards, which one did you mean?), often late with the instructions so I've passed the turning before it's told me to turn, and the central touchscreen display occasionally shows conflicting information to the little display between the dials, usually at roundabouts so I'm never sure (for example) whether "turn left" means the first exit (at, say, 8 o'clock), or the exit at 9 o'clock as shown on the little display.

      M.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "woefully ambiguous with directions"

        I hate that about GPS units. Tell me something like "in 1 mile, head west on highway 22" and I'll figure out the lanes and the turns based on the road signs. If there's something odd (like a left exit... which is atypical for us in the US) fine, give a heads up. Otherwise it's too busy reminding me to take an offramp to tell me which way to go next.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. David Hicklin Bronze badge

            Stuck lorries is a case of cheapskates using standard Satnavs rather than those intended for HGV's where you enter your HGV details and it routes you away from these places

            Cost more however

        2. AndrueC Silver badge

          Also quit with the 'turn left' crap when I'm close to the exit of a roundabout. I actually had one sat nav (Tom Tom I think) that used to tell me to turn left to enter the roundabout.

          I mean, FFS!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Does anyone know what directions are given for the roundabout at the bottom of the steep hill in Ironbridge, UK?

            The literal first left exit is a very acute angle into a narrow road. The approach road sign indicates that you have to go round 360+ to end up aligned properly. Many a larger vehicle has tried to just "go left" without enough turning circle to complete the manoeuvre. The new sign icon is actually not as explanatory as the one 40 years ago which had an arrow head. The written "No Left Turn" warning could be confusing.

        3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          I hate that about GPS units. Tell me something like "in 1 mile, head west on highway 22"

          That's how the better ones work normally. Although the text-to-speech algorithm for pronouncing street names can be amusing at times. Mine, for Piccadilly, mangles it into Pie-Cad-Illy like it's three words! Likewise Campbell Road become Camp Bell Road. In a strange and unfamiliar area, it really makes you concentrate on the place names :-)

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "The funniest though was when I asked my first Smart Nokia to get me from Llandudno to Newton Stewart. It wanted to send me to Liverpool, along the docks and then the immortal phrase 'Follow the Ferry for 75 miles". Instead I decided to drive out to the M6 and turn left. It seemed safer :)"

      That's why my SatNav has the option to avoid things like ferries or tolls or unpaved roads. Those sorts of places are often not the routes you want to take and can often appear on your route, especially if you set your SatNav to select the shortest route. It's also helpful to use the SatNav features to show the whole route, or at at least zoom out enough to see a significant distance so you can visually confirm where it's going to take you. And maybe add via points to enforce the route you prefer.

  17. Antron Argaiv Silver badge
    Alert

    Garmin

    I have a Garmin (with lifetime updates) I got at Goodwill for $25. It seems to do fairly well, though SWMBO swears by her iPhone. Which ceases to work in less digital areas (yes, there are some here in the US), so I'm glad to have the Garmin as a backup.

    The newer Garmins don't verbalise the "recalculating", they just show it on the screen. And it seems to catch on fairly quickly if I choose to go a way I know better, rather than the one it thinks I should use.For $25, I really can't complain (and if I did, it would do no good!)

    I have also been led to a ferry, and have managed to correct a database error which led many to assume my address didn't exist (the road I live on has a section in the middle which is passable only by four wheel drive jeep or HMMWV, except for Spring, when the mud hole will swallow anyone who tries). House numbers start at one end and continue after the impassable section. Getting NAVTEQ, Google, Garmin, and the others to fix their databases took me almost 3 years of posting and reposting detailed corrections to their websites. They DO look at them, but very rarely.

    // one question nobody has been able to answer: if you stop, roll down your window, and ask directions, what guarantee do you have that the bloke giving you directions knows any more than you do?

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Garmin

      what guarantee do you have that the bloke giving you directions knows any more than you do

      Going to Ballymuck? Well, I wouldn't start from here...

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Garmin

      The newer Garmins don't verbalise the "recalculating", they just show it on the screen.

      Sometimes they need to verbalise "Woah. Stop now and back up."

      A while ago I came face to face with a stuck HGV in a local hamlet. It had finally come to rest, unable to go backwards or forwards having obviously done Dabbsy's dad's trick of turning left a few yards too soon. The driver must have driven a mile or so of increasingly narrow and unsuitable roads having first been lulled into a sense of false security by several hundred yards of dead-straight road.

      Wherever he wanted to go he shouldn't have started from there.

    3. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: Garmin

      Garmin still doesn't know my entire subdivision exists. It's been there since 1994.

      There's almost 20 square miles of blank "here there be dragons" on the screen.

      1. Neal L

        Re: Garmin

        So, Wales then?

  18. TheProf
    Coffee/keyboard

    Siili Auto

    Oh come on. Nobody is going to call a company Silly Auto.

    And what's with the "every day billions of people are using smartphones naturally with their thumbs" claim?

    I use my finger to poke and caress my phone screen. Phone held in left hand, right index finger doing the pointing and clicking bit.

    Aren't phone too long these days for thumbing the keyboard. Won't they just tumble out of your hands? Could explain the number of texting-teenagers with shattered screens I see.

  19. usbac Silver badge

    Dabsy needs this satnav:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xLR5mjkfs4

    1. Keven E
      Pint

      Nice stuff

      usbac - Have a Friday frosty on me!

      ********

      On directions: not sure where this comes from, but...

      "You can't get there from here!"

      ... my standard answer.

      1. Tim99 Silver badge

        Re: Nice stuff

        A variation that my father encountered in rural Norfolk in the 1950s "Well sur, I wouldn’t start from here if I wuz yew"…

  20. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

    Modern cars..

    ... seem somewhat fragile.

    For example - my 2018 Toyota C-HR hit a pothole a while back. I though nothing of it until the next time I used it and it informed me that the collision detection system was no longer enabled. Next power-on it informed me that a different system was no longer enabled but collision warning was..

    All through this the proximity sensors wouldn't work - although the blind spot elimination system did - which is odd because that system uses the rear/side prox sensors..

    So I booked it in to the Toyota garage to find out what was going on. Turned out that the jolt had caused a 'system event' that prevented things working properly - the fix was to reset the controller which cleared the system event. Sort of like turning it off and on again!

    To be fair to the garage (Toyota Swindon) they didn't charge me anything for the fix since it only took 5 minutes to do - long enough to plug in the diagnostics and reset the system.

    But it shouldn't really have happened in the first place - if the embedded systems in the car can't take a jolt without throwing an exception thn they are not really fit for purpose.

    After all, it doesn't happen in the Morris Minor! (It barely has electrics let alone electronics.. And survived lockdown 1 whereas the C-HR completely ran out of charge and required another system reset as, even after being recharged, kept giving hybrid system error messages..)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Modern cars..

      "Morris Minor! (It barely has electrics [...]"

      Ahh - the days when British family cars had manual windscreen wipers - and you waggled your arm out of the window to indicate direction or braking.

      My first car was an A40 Farina. It was the "de-luxe" model - as it had a heater.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Modern cars..

        Using hand signals and being able to recognise what they mean is still a requirement. After all, not all road "vehicles" have brake lights or indicators. The vast majority of road users probably neither know this nor would recognise them if used.

        1. Andy A

          Re: Modern cars..

          I hear rumours that the UK driving test no longer includes driving using hand signals, and there's probably no requirement to understand signals given by a policeman on point duty.

          My "other" car had a single mechanised windscreen wiper and indicators from new (actually semaphore-style arms which fold out and light up) but only a single tail light. After all, in those days you didn't really care about those behind you.

          I fitted a panel with a pair of extra tail lights, and found a place to fit a brake light switch. Moving to LEDs means that the minimal output of the dynamo can cope with the extra load.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Modern cars..

      "But it shouldn't really have happened in the first place - if the embedded systems in the car can't take a jolt without throwing an exception thn they are not really fit for purpose."

      Sounds like the electronics were fine, the software was the issue (hence the reset clearing it). I'm not extremely familiar with collision detection systems in autos, but I suspect that the jolt was severe enough that at least one accelerometer registered it as a possible collision. Your airbag sensors obviously didn't conclude you were in a crash, so the car decided it was getting wonky data from the collision sensors and went into a "limp-home" mode instead of completely shutting down.

      Hybrids and battery vehicles have extra emphasis on crash sensing. If they conclude they are in the process of having a crash, they fire pyro fuses in the battery to ensure any mangled HV cables are de-energized by the time the sheet metal and frame crumple.

      Automotive components go through some pretty rigorous testing to show they survive vibration along with nasty jolts. Testing doesn't simulate going over a pothole, it's severe enough to simulate years worth of potholes in a couple of days.

      If you ever want to try a "turn it off and on again" in your car, pull the battery negative cable for about 5 minutes and reattach. (protip: some cars do a brief chirp of the horn when the battery is reconnected, can be startling).

  21. ShabWeasel

    It's not quite a Jag-you-arr

    Damn you, now I've got the Flanders & Swann song in my head!!

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  22. tux_is_god
    Paris Hilton

    winds down the window, and asks directions ??

    Do that in certain area's of most cities, your likely to get pulled for kerb crawling.

    1. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: winds down the window, and asks directions ??

      Now I know a new phrase... and there's a Wikipedia page on it? WTF?

  23. This post has been deleted by its author

  24. Gene Cash Silver badge

    Do you not want to stop avoiding toll roads?

    Wait what?

    After that one, my TomTom got a toss over the shoulder at 80mph.

  25. John 110
    WTF?

    Rallying cries!

    I once spent an interesting journey in the back of a wooden framed Morris Traveller a friend was restoring. She (the driver) had rallied extensively round the Scottish Borders and had trained Him (the navigator) to shout out the direction and degree of upcoming turns at a predetermined distance.

    This makes for the most invigorating(?) journey through Angus country roads I've ever had.

    [Note for anyone who's never driven in Angus: the roads are routinely twisty, and if you see a sign indicating a bend ahead, they really, really mean it! (see selected icon)]

    1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

      Re: Rallying cries!

      Note for anyone who's never driven in Angus: the roads are routinely twisty, and if you see a sign indicating a bend ahead, they really, really mean it! (see selected icon)

      Unlike Norfolk where I was belting along some road, ignoring bend signs, because they really didn't merit any. Then I rounded the bend which didn't have a sign but really should have.

      "Sphincter muscles work" was the best positive I could take away from that experience.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Rallying cries!

        Offspring went to a university interview recently. Got chatting to other applicants. Discovered one, from the flat lands, had never had the opportunity to go sledging, or even just barrelling down a hill on a tea tray! Decided maybe Ipswich wouldn't be first on the UCAS list, having grown up surrounded by hills.

  26. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

    A Steering Wheel?

    The Importance of being EarnestApple

    "Apple’s ideal car would have no steering wheel and pedals, and its interior would be designed around hands-off driving."

    "Though the company is pushing to not have a standard steering wheel, Apple has discussed equipping the car with an emergency takeover mode."

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-18/apple-accelerates-work-on-car-aims-for-fully-autonomous-vehicle

  27. Gerlad Dreisewerd

    Google Mapis ok to a point

    Google Maps does well enough in urban areas but using Google Maps in a rural setting is a real adventure. I joke about Maps using cow paths and deer trails but there are some locals one trusts Maps only if feeling suicidal. You really need to know where you are going and how to get there which obviate the functionality of Maps in the first place.

  28. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Alert

    Move over Monsieur Tesla

    "Like you, my next car will be electric"

    https://www.theregister.com/2020/12/11/something_for_the_weekend/

    does that mean you'll be joining Monsieur Tesla in laying trip hazards across the pavement? And placing notes to your neighbours under the wipers of their cars when they park in front of your house.

    1. Terry 6 Silver badge

      Re: Move over Monsieur Tesla

      This is what stops us from considering an electric car. (We are buying a new Honda Hybrid E-HRV).

      We live in a fairly standard N London terraced house. No off-street parking and a handful of lamppost chargers that have no parking restrictions . So we'd stand very little chance of parking by one. In fact, even if we were willing to trail a charge cable across the pavement there's a damned high risk of not being able to park outside our own house.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Move over Monsieur Tesla

        Don't worry, if you have watched enough EV ads you know a charging point will magically emerge from the pavement where ever you park, including in the middle of a forest.

        1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
          Alert

          Re: Move over Monsieur Tesla

          including in the middle of a forest

          Where Bears have taken to using the charging points as scratching posts

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Here

    I have found Google maps to take stupid routes, not tell you a junction in time or spew sequences of contradictory instructions.

    I much prefer Here maps. It gives better instructions and has offline mode. Started using it when I had a Windows phone and have now installed on Android. Have the map pack for Australia permanently installed and will install the pack for any other countries I travel to. Not sure if Google maps now allows you to install whole countries, but the last time I look at its offline mode you could only install small areas one at at a time.

    I like to carry paper maps as well though and on long distance journeys will always look at the map first to get an overview of the route.

    1. Barrie Shepherd

      Re: Here

      I much prefer Here maps.

      As do I but Google won't let Here into the Android Auto walled garden, so you cannot get the map on the built in (larger) Nav screen.

  30. big_D Silver badge

    Silence is golden...

    I always turn of the voice on my satnav. It display the turnings coming up in the middle of the dashboard anyway, so I don't need it to interrupt my audio book or podcast every 10 seconds.

    That said, I rarely use the satnav in my car anyway. I think I probably use it about twice a year on average. I usually know where I am going and I know where the shortcuts are and, if there is a detour, I can read the road signs to know roughly where I am heading, so I won't get lost.

  31. Sam Therapy

    We are using a courtesy vehicle (too flippin' big to call a car, Toyota Proace Verso, their version of the Vauxhall Vivaro), a fairly new thing, 21 plate, with a built in SatNav that is bleedin' awful.

    Not only does the thing take you somewhere one way, then back a completely different route for no good reason, it reads out road numbers in a way I've never heard anyone use in all me 62 years. The A6195, for example, I'd know as the A Six One Six Nine Five; the Toyota version reads it out as A Sixty One Ninety Five. A bit distracting when you expect something else. Google will also give the local names of roads but the Toyota, oh no, it can't be arsed to do that.

    Me main gripe with Google's SatNav is that it often gives silly (slight right, for example) instructions, or late instructions, such as telling you which exit to use when you're already positioned at a roundabout, often in the wrong lane. Not great if it's a route you're unfamiliar with.

  32. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Like you, my next car will be electric

    I hope mine will be hydrogen-powered.

    There's no point complaining: we know what's best for you.

    Resistance is futile

  33. imanidiot Silver badge

    My go-to for navigation has been Here WeGo for a long time, but it's been getting progressively more shit with each new update imho (like now forcing the use of the Google-y Android voice synth, which sounds like an absolute bitch barking commands at you no matter what voice you choose. I vastly preferred the previously available recorded female voice as she sounded much more friendly, was much more comprehensible and didn't bother reading superfluous information like street names). The one bright shining feature it currently still has is being able to download maps for offline use. Because even though phone companies CLAIM you'll have perfect reception everywhere, any time in northwestern Europe, the reality is that in my experience that isn't the case. Especially when you're "roaming" on a different network in a foreign country and your data connection suddenly makes a 56k dialup modem seem like a FTTH gigabit broadband connection.

    Google Maps navigation routing in my experience has a tendency to choose weird routes because they're 100 meters shorter and theoretically faster if you ignore the traffic lights and the tendency for people to be complete idiots. Which means the routes Google Maps chooses are usually slower, more shit and more stressful. It also seems to indicate turns and highway exits either stupidly early (such that you've forgotten them again by the time you get to the actual turnout, or you need to pay attention so that you don't take an exit too early) or stupidly late (such that you can't actually make the turn or take the exit safely).

    1. ThatOne Silver badge
      Devil

      > routes Google Maps chooses are usually slower

      Mostly because of all the cheapskates who use the free Google services (Maps or Waze), and thus all end up driving on the same roads...

      The fastest way to go from A to B would be to avoid the Google services' routes. You'd need a meta-engine able to calculate you a route avoiding as much as possible the corresponding Google route.

  34. Charles 9

    Here's an honest question. Is there a place where asking for directions isn't possible because no one knows directions in their brains and navigate instead by muscle memory?

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