'Quad' group seeks to set security standards for global tech industry

The Quad group of nations – the USA, India, Australia, and Japan – has announced several joint initiatives to share technology and spur its development, among them a plan to set new global security standards for the technology industry. The four nations' leaders met late last week and announced a set of initiatives, among them …

[Throatwarbler Mangrove]

Excellent

This article should be catnip for the Chinese astroturf brigade.

[A random security guy]

Re: Excellent

Yup. I expect the following:

1. Whataboutism as a distraction: Well the NSA and the GCHQ does it

2. Attacking the countries for putting out the message without addressing their concerns (they are ganging up on China but without mentioning that it is China that is attacking them)

3. Denying that even happens, ignoring the recent revelations

4. Stating that the Chinese government is actually far better than the others.

[W.S.Gosset]

Re: ignoring the recent revelations

"recent"?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: ignoring the recent revelations

Recent? You mean like grabbing foreign nationals off the street and holding them hostage to be traded for their nationals who've been caught in criminal activity?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: ignoring the recent revelations

Like ordinary businessman on the street Michael Kovrig?

"caught in criminal activity?"

Are you actually interested in the claim? It centers on this powerpoint presentation to HSBC:

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/2178250/powerpoint-presentation-proves-huawei-cfo-sabrina-meng-wanzhou

Now tell me what the fraud is? Tell me where the lie in any of that actually is?

[W.S.Gosset]

Re: ignoring the recent revelations

I was pointing out obliquely that there is nothing "recent" about China's "activities" -- they've been quite consistent for a very long time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Excellent

Yeh, its clearly about China.

It's a pity, the obvious way to compete is to make better products, cheaper in a more timely fashion. If you can't do that, holding back three countries with ya doesn't fix anything. It just makes them play catchup too.

It's not like the world is waiting around to see what Australia, India and Japan decides!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Excellent

It's difficult to compete with a nation that gets discounts and favorable treatment in all the international trade deals because it's officially considered a "developing" nation, and which blocks any attempt to reclassify itself as a developed nation, despite positioning itself as a global superpower.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Excellent

Not to mention considers bribery to be OK. My company has offices all over the world, but it's the China office that we have a high forced turnover rate due to my company being diligent about having strict anticorruption rules.(Due the the US and UK having strong anticorruption laws).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Excellent

Excuses are great, but the Obama TPP trade (and the US-EU counterpart) agreement was specifically designed to exclude China *completely*, whether they call themselves "developing" or "developed".

Trump cancelled those, simply because he defined himself as the "anti-Obama".

So whining about how China won't renegotiate the old WTO treaty from the 1970's when you had your replacements already set up, well its pathetic.

If you're going to do the trade approach to disavantage them, I'd rejoin TPP negotiations damn quick, because China's already applied to join and might well hijack the hole thing to keep USA out of that trade zone (you took yourselves out of it)! The exact thing the US originally planned to do to China, China might turn back onto them.

Or you can whine and moan and pretend its all unfair...

[Justthefacts]

Re: Excellent

Ahem. The real situation is much less pretty than that.

In the company I used to work for (large tech corporate, USA HQ, U.K. engineering site), it was a condition of employment to successfully complete an online multiple-choice anti-corruption training, written by US HQ.

One actual question (because I saved it for later):

Which of these is it illegal to give a “sweetener” to (mark all that apply)

A) US senator B) Los Angeles port official C) Huawei executive D) Your boss for a good performance review

The company was extremely keen that you know that it is *legal* to bribe B and D (although A and C illegal). If you mark B or D as illegal you would have to repeat the whole test until you got all the answers right. Can you see the problem we had with US HQ?

[Youngone]

Re: Excellent

My company has the same problem with the Malaysia office, and for the same reasons.

[A random security guy]

Finally something, even if it is sloow and maybe too late

The Chinese companies are hellbent on spying on their customers. Xiaomi can even censor your content. Most of the countries are getting overrun by Chinese products which have been deliberately designed to track and, at least one case, control people's communications.

https://www.theregister.com/2021/09/22/xiaomi_phone_handset_censorship_lithuania/

[martinusher]

Re: Finally something, even if it is sloow and maybe too late

The phone will have general purpose software suitable for the Chinese market. Its probably not worth their while making firmware distributions for every country, you just pile everything in and activate the components you need for each region.

As far as "spying on their customers go" I presume you've seen the film "The Social Dilemma"? (its on Netflix) I dare say the Chinese government has been aware of this for some time which is why they've got controls on their Internet and social media companies. It also suggests why the PRC government is probably not spying on you and me -- there's nothing in it for them (and if they were really desperate to know what I was up to, for example, they'd just buy the information through a shell company from an information broker.)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Finally something, even if it is sloow and maybe too late

Even so, by putting it in there they're enabling it for everywhere. Even if the list isn't "Tianamen Square".

Do you think Priti Patel would want the Xiaomi code removed? Or would she want it to run her list of her own approved words?

What about Peter Dutton, the Aussie 5 eyes bod that agreed to backdoor encryption at a 5 eyes meeting. Then took the steps needed to force that through the Aussie democracy against the Aussie interest. Even helping eject Malcolm Turnbull to make it possible. He's currently the "Australian Minister for Defence" doing his war dance.

Do you think Dutton would want that code removed, or would he want it repurposed for his own use?

The problem with these backdoors is they get used everywhere by everyone. Xiaomi would happily put Duttons list in, compelled by Duttons secret police law, or UK Patel's "technical measures" secret police law without complaint just as they did for China.

[cyberdemon]

Re: Finally something, even if it is sloow and maybe too late

Yes, exactly as George Orwell predicted. Surveillance, propaganda, thought police, and an eternal state of cold war. "It's the only stable system" :(

Where do you think the Telescreens were manufactured? (although surely not Eastasia, because we have always been at war with Eastasia..)

Priti Patel, Peter Dutton et al will be over the moon to buy a population surveillance and control solution from the chinese, even if they don't own it.

And it doesn't seem to apply to just to the Tories - Tony Blair, Jack Straw, Jacqui Smith would all jump at the chance if they were still in power. As Orwell said, it's the only stable system of government: Totalitarian oppression - and it offers a government the dream of staying in absolute power forever.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Finally something, even if it is sloow and maybe too late

Whatabout UK, whatabout FourSquare, Whatabout Google, Whatabout Apple location service, Whatabout Australia's hacking and surveillance and backdoor law?

Just trying to trigger the 5 eyes trolls! :)

[martinusher]

Truth, Justice -- and the American Way

We've been subject to a barrage of anti-Chinese propaganda over the last few years and unfortunately people seem to be swallowing it wholesale. We were quite happy to offshore just about everything to them provided they knew their place -- that is, a larger version of the Phillipines -- but they obviously got too big for their boots and we need to take them down a peg or two.

The problem is that we are going about it all wrong. We're trying to turn back the clock, to pretend that the last five, ten or more years didn't happen and so we can just reset to a happier place. All that's needed is a good dose of Cold War rhetoric and we're in business. Except we're not. A recent analysis of the tariff regime showed that it hadn't slowed trade with China or encouraged onshoring, all it did was raise prices for smaller manufacturers and consumers. Our (US) attack on Chinese academics has backfired on us -- not only has it failed to find evidence of spying or trade secret theft, the prosecutions of Chinese people have acted as a deterrent for researchers to come to the US. We're not making the infrastructure investments necessary to compete on their level -- investment funding is mired in partisan politics, as it has been for decades -- the biggest China hawks are also the ones who are reluctant to pony up when it comes to investment dollars (which we shouldn't really be doing at the government level but like the UK of old private capital isn't interested, they make better percentages on real estate, commodities monopolies and weapons). Unless we fix this all this Quad posturing is just hot air; the only thing that will come out of it is a few headline initiatives and maybe a war or two.

It has taken a generation or two to get into this hole and it will take a similar amount of time to dig ourselves out of it. Unfortunately people want instant answers -- if they can't get what they think is their due they'll get angry and turn to any glib reality TV star or radio talking head who has the answers. They always have the answers -- until its time to actually get anything done.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Truth, Justice -- and the American Way

No.

> We were quite happy to offshore just about everything to them provided they knew their place -- that is, a larger version of the Phillipines -- but they obviously got too big for their boots and we need to take them down a peg or two.

We were happy to offshore to them when they were liberalising and their economy was open to us. Then Xi took power, and decided "fuck that, I want some good old Maoist authoritarianism", and the Chinese government started closing off, ramping up communist propaganda, vilifying foreigners, stealing technology, breaking treaties, and attacking trade partners, all to the constant tune of nationalistic sabre rattling.

> Our (US) attack on Chinese academics has backfired on us -- not only has it failed to find evidence of spying or trade secret theft

There has been no "attack on Chinese academics". Some CCP-associated academics were found to have lied about their connection to the CCP on their visa applications, others were discovered to have been passing industrial or military secrets to authorities in China. They weren't arrested because they're Chinese, but because there was clear evidence they actually did these things.

> [whataboutisms]

[martinusher]

Re: Truth, Justice -- and the American Way

I suggest you run a search on "China Initiative", that's the official name given to this operation that's run by the DoJ. Then look up how many people have been investigated, how many have been prosecuted (and what they've been prosecuted for) and how many convictions.

In another time and place we called it "McCarthyism".

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Truth, Justice -- and the American Way

It is a classic disinformation tactic to make claims without providing any evidence, then demand that the disagreeing party "do the research". Minimal effort required to spread disinformation, while keeping those who want to find the truth busy and not able to counter the disinformation until it's circled the world.

I'm not saying that you're intentionally spreading disinformation, just that the onus for providing evidence is on *you* for making the claims in the first place.

[Anonymous Coward]

India?

The universal epicentre of scams, spams and shams?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: India?

And subsidies... they have hopes of developing their own home grown 5G

https://tfipost.com/2021/09/tejas-networks-is-set-to-become-indias-own-5g-mammoth-throwing-chinas-huawei-into-oblivion/

"In the next five years, the Modi government will give incentives to various companies for starting indigenous manufacturing of telecommunication equipment in the country. This will not only ensure that India becomes ‘Aatmanirbhar‘ in the manufacturing of telecommunication equipment but will also help the nation to end the duopoly of Chinese and European telecommunication equipment globally."

Meanwhile over in Thailand they're leaving you behind:

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1972579/ais-5g-service-reaches-every-province

"Advanced Info Service Plc (AIS), Thailand's largest telecom operator, has announced reaching all 77 provinces (counting Bangkok) with 5G stand-alone service, the first in the nation to do so. After expanding our 5G network to 77 provinces, with 100% coverage for industrial estates in the Eastern Economic Corridor, AIS is continuing to fulfil its mission to support a revival of the national economy by expanding the locations served by 5G stand-alone networks to cover all 77 Thai provinces,"

India's hopes seem a bit confused, home grown kit in 5 years or wait for US kit? I'm surprised UK is not in on this group, I guess Boris didn't get his trade deal, despite the toadying. He could have done the Huawei deal and it would be rolled out by now. I bet it would be cheaper too. And unlike the US made backdoored kit, GCHQ get to see the code.

[W.S.Gosset]

"identify vulnerabilities, and bolster supply-chain security for semiconductors"

Step 1: build a honking great military base on Taiwan

Step 2: wait

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, more cushy high-paid "body" positions for government and industry members that ends up accomplishing nothing in the next ten years as it did in the past approximate decade.

When will people clue in that you can't just magically issue an edict that vendors are going to create "secure" software and have it be so?

If that worked, we could wish for intelligent politicians the same way and they'd magically sprout new brains! :)

[Denarius]

secure ?

@msobkow

Secure ? for whom? the Oz spooks and their handlers clearly want to be able to connect to, control and modify contents on any devices so that all suspects and maybe suspects can have the evidence found on their "secure" devices. So its the old magic backdoors again. As for a bureaucracy, especially a multinational one being innovative, hahahahahahah, chunder.

As for 5G, what does it actually offer users ? Something blocked by fog, rain, small distances, buildings, walls, trees. Right, so more masts/listening posts everywhere except where there is a need for the users. And which taxpayers/phone users will pay for this? Yes, above are right, back to the historical norm of totalitarian authoritarian incompetent government of the many, for the few.