back to article Thunderbird 91 lands: Now native on Apple Silicon, swaps 'master' for 'primary' password, and more

Thunderbird 91 has been released with support for Apple Silicon and other enhancements. This version entered the release channel yesterday, according to the release notes, and follows the emission of Firefox 91. You can fetch Thunderbird directly from here, or wait for your system package manager to catch up and hand it out. …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Primary?

    What an elitist phrase!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Primary?

      And it doesn't mean the same thing.

      1. TrevorH

        Re: Primary?

        s/A Master Password protects all/An overall password protects all/

        1. dajames
          Coat

          Re: Primary?

          s/A Master Password protects all/An overall password protects all/

          Surely an overall password protects overalls?

          (mine's the one with the list of passwords written in crayon on a crumpled old envelope)

          1. martyn.hare
            Trollface

            Overarching password

            The most important password

            I use arch btw

    2. Sitaram Chamarty

      Re: Primary?

      indeed it is. In an earlier thread on some other article I had mentioned that I am an India, El Reg is Brit, and in both countries the head (real, not titular) of the government is... wait for it... the *Prime* Minister :-) Can't get more elitist than "head of country"

      1. teknopaul

        Re: Primary?

        I'm glad the got rid of "master" it reminds me of an unpleasant school teacher.

        I hope the get rid of "thunderbird" for the same reason

        1. Arthur the cat Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: Primary?

          I hope the get rid of "thunderbird" for the same reason

          What, you had a bad experience with puppets?

      2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
        Big Brother

        Re: Primary?

        Don't forget the 'Master at Arms' title in military

        Then there is 'Master' locks.

        and so it goes on.

        Woe betide anyone with the name Masters.

        Where will it end?

        1. Blank Reg

          Re: Primary?

          I can accept reducing the use of the term slave where there are good alternatives, but master has far too many other uses. So what next, I can no longer be a "Master Craftsman"?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            So what next, I can no longer be a "Master Craftsman"?

            I would have suggested using the term "Uber Craftsman" instead but I'm sure someone would find that offensive to Germans (or Uber drivers).

          2. Beeblebrox

            ... no longer be a "Master Craftsman"?

            And just forget about that MSc, MBA, MA or whatever.

      3. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Primary?

        >Can't get more elitist than "head of country"

        The prime minister, apart from being 'first among equals' isn't head of the country. They are head of the government - which is roughly equal to head floater in a blocked sewer

    3. Mark 65

      Re: Primary?

      When I read they were swapping primary in for master I thought “well at least they’re tackling the big issues” then realised my thunderbird instance has just crashed again as it does at times. FFS.

  2. Linker3000
    Linux

    So far so good

    I downloaded and installed 91 on a laptop running Mint linux, having first uninstalled 78.

    It picked up all my settings except for Google calendars, which I had to remove and re-setup/re-authenticate.

    The only other task was to setup a launcher to get a program icon.

    1. Lon24

      Re: So far so good

      Oh yes I'm on Thunderbird 78 too (Kubuntu 20.04). 13 release numbers between then and now seems very busy. Will I even recognise the new beasty? I do tend to prefer stability over agility in email clients. They are supposed to be a bit boring - IMAP, POP3 & SMTP are not exactly fast moving targets.

      1. Dave559 Silver badge

        Re: So far so good

        Regarding version numbers (from 78 to 91), I think they are just trying to keep in sync with the Firefox version numbering system; there haven't actually been a huge succession of Thunderbird releases while you haven't been looking! (Well, a few minor point-updates now and again, but that's it.)

    2. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: So far so good

      I exited the app (v78 as well) moved /usr/local/thunderbird to thunderbird-old, untarred the BZ2 file, and started it. I still had my 5 or 6 Google calendars working. I'm on Devuan. It's probably systemd that broke your calendars.

      It "just works" and hasn't been screwed with, or revamped, or updated, so I went back and donated $60.

      > Will I even recognise the new beasty?

      YES. The UI has not been Mozilla-ed at all.

      1. PerlyKing
        Devil

        Re: It's probably systemd that broke your calendars

        Not a fan? ;-)

        1. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: It's probably systemd that broke your calendars

          In the world of dead-tree calendars, I can imagine an air movement device breaking a calendar. Surely not in the digital realm though??

        2. Beeblebrox

          Not a fan? ;-)

          Didn't you read Devuan in the post?

    3. swm

      Re: So far so good

      I had an old laptop running Windows 7 and hit the update button for Firefox. It proceeded to do about 4 upgrades to various releases until it got to 91. None the less - it worked perfectly (I think).

      1. Beeblebrox

        running Windows 7 and hit the update button for Firefox

        ... and, what about your Thunderbird experience from this effort?

    4. Proton_badger

      Re: So far so good

      Yeah, I installed it and cheered at seeing the account wizard had found calendars but after setup saw no sign of calendars/contacts. Turns out I had to click on them in the setup wizard and click on somewhat hidden "connect" buttons, there's no easy way after the fact. The wizard could make this more obvious for people like me who over-confidently clicks through too fast...

      Besides from that I'm rejoicing that it supports Google Calendar+Contacts directly. Older version were a sh*t show of flaky Calendar/Contact sync extensions that only worked with specific outdated versions and only some of the time. FF 91 is a huge leap in this respect.

      Now if only the spam/block buttons in mail apps could connect with/report to the mail host like Google...

  3. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
    Facepalm

    More like Chunderbird, amirite?

    Thunderbird is one of those programs I really want to like, but it feels like it's stuck in the 90s. In particular, why is it necessary to pop up a window showing the status of sending an email? Every other modern email program just, you know, sends the email, with maybe a notification in the program's status bar. The search function is also thoroughly wretched, popping up a strange text list of message content rather than, say, the messages themselves. Maybe now that they're rolling in cash, some improvements will take place, although the fact that the developers have taken the time and effort to focus on IRC integration into the program bodes ill.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Megaphone

      Re: More like Chunderbird, amirite?

      it feels like it's stuck in the 90s

      Well, other than using the 'f' word FEEL, I would want MORE things to be "stuck in the 90's" if it means

      * 3D Skeuomorphic menu-based multi-pane interface WITH NO 'HAMBURGER' MENU

      * Keyboard+Mouse UI centricity unless you WANT it the other way for some reason...

      * sensible menu hierarchy

      * tabs where it makes sense

      * extensibility

      * can turn OFF HTML MAIL (which is EVIL and a YUGE SECURITY CRATER)

      </rant>

      1. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: More like Chunderbird, amirite?

        Okay, bob, how about "seems"? Is "seems" okay with you? It seems like it's stuck in the 90s, eschewing two decades of UX advancements.

        1. Aoyagi Aichou
          Holmes

          Re: More like Chunderbird, amirite?

          Not all advancements are good.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: More like Chunderbird, amirite?

            or, indeed, advancements!

      2. teknopaul

        Re: More like Chunderbird, amirite?

        I'll try out that disabling html.

        Geary has a nasty habit of converting text mail to bad html which is vexing me at the mo

      3. ovation1357

        Re: More like Chunderbird, amirite?

        ^^^ This, this, THIS ^^^

    2. TrevorH

      Re: More like Chunderbird, amirite?

      The usual nickname for it is Thunderturd

  4. doug_bostrom

    The shape of a hammer, pliers etc. are also dated. Please don't mistake tools for handbags.

    1. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
      FAIL

      In fact, hammers and pliers have been repeatedly refined over millennia. Just visit a museum and look at how even simple tools have evolved. But I suppose you long for the days when people just banged rocks together.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        >But I suppose you long for the days when people just banged rocks together.

        You had rocks? Luxury .....

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bad for the eyes

    On Mac, you still can't change the font size of the sidebars and message list. That stops me using it. But at least it has dav now I guess.

  6. chololennon
    Unhappy

    Still no tray support

    Zillions of years using Thunderbird (mostly on Linux/KDE, but also on Windows) and we still have to rely on different add-ons to minimize the application to (system) tray. Add ons that support only one OS, or don't work very well or stop working at some point (the majority)... I don't understand why it is so difficult to implement that feature into the application (at least on Windows it is very simple)

    1. Charles 9

      Re: Still no tray support

      Because it depends on the OS and window manager. One size can't fit all here since some WMs don't even have trays.

      1. chololennon
        Facepalm

        Re: Still no tray support

        That's not an excuse, a multiplatform application has to deal with that, especially if those features are related to desktop integration. Slack, Skype or Zoom, just to mention a few, don't have that problem.

        1. Mark 65

          Re: Still no tray support

          So what's a well supported viable cross platform alternative?

  7. NATTtrash
    Boffin

    O365 and IMAP

    That said, a quick spin with the new version does show some limitations. Connection to Exchange, Outlook.com, or Office 365 is by IMAP, unless you purchase an add-on called Owl for Exchange at the modest cost of €10 per year. This extension may be necessary if IMAP is not enabled by your organization.

    True el Reg, but please note, even after your purchase (or using e.g. Evolution), and gaining IMAP, it still is not without tribbles. The kind people who brought you O365 nowadays will allow you access through IMAP/SMTP, but if you want to exchange, I don't know, something trivial as meeting invites with your colleagues, you will not get the invite (you know, productivity software) but a message to go to settings to allow "external" access (UNSAFE!). No invite. And arrived at the settings of O365... it turns out $USER can't set it, and an admin has to jump through hoops for you. Who then mumbles if you can't buy a Windows computer and leave him alone (yes, really!).

    1. MacroRodent

      Re: O365 and IMAP

      Yes, O365 is the most successful vendor lock-in known to mankind.

  8. IGotOut Silver badge

    In other news

    Depeche Mode have re-released the classic single

    Primary and Secondary.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: In other news

      Next week they're re-releasing "Barrel of a Walkie-Talkie".

  9. DJV Silver badge

    Dated interface

    "The user interface looks dated and intricate, though those familiar with it perhaps like it the way it is."

    Well, thank goodness for that. If they fuck around with the interface like Mozilla have been doing for years with Firefox then the likely outcome is that Thunderbird will lose users and donations will most likely plummet.

    1. gfx

      Re: Dated interface

      I really hate the change in interface between outlook 2019 (comparable to the previous versions) and outlook 365 ,the search function is in a weird place and adding an attachment is sometimes hidden as well.

      1. ovation1357

        Re: Dated interface

        Outlook's user interface is diabolical! I've tried the online version and I hate that even more.

        The search is utterly appalling and the complete lack of control over the ultra-low-contrast colour theme and massive areas of wasted white side make it a miserable daily use experience for me.

        I'd give anything to use Thunderbird for my work email and did once try it using the old 'exquilla' plugin for Exchange, but in a highly locked down Windows environment it wouldn't work. So I'm stuck being miserable and less productive with Outlook instead.

        I really don't understand how Microsoft gets away with charging so much money for this utter shite

        I love the 'dated' UI of Thunderbird and will be very sad if they change it significantly without retaining user options to keep it in 'classic mode'... I'm not anti change but I'm also very pro-choice when it comes to UIs.

        Microsoft has gone from being 'passable' to 'nil points' for allowing user control over their applications, whereas both Firefox and Thunderbird continue to give a wonderful raft of personalisation options plus mainly sensible defaults for new users.

  10. Sitaram Chamarty

    meanwhile, over on a work-mandated Xubuntu laptop...

    ...Evolution + Evolution-EWS work fine. No fee to pay, and I get calendar invites too

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Used to like TB but only last used it centuries ago

    I've used TB a *very* long time ago, last.

    Is it any good now ? I read UI hasn't been duck around with which is good.

    What about sending image NOT inline with full res ? I'm getting real sick of gmail manipulating whatever I'm trying to send to other TBH and looking for a non-MS alternative.

    1. TRT Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Used to like TB but only last used it centuries ago

      It went through a period of sickness which almost had them taking it out around the back of the shed and putting it out of its misery, but I'm glad to say it has recovered from, what we like to call, the Thunderbird ague!

  12. Bob Scrantzen

    I have always loved TB which I initially chose as a free replacement for MS Office Outlook.

    On my latest home laptop, I see I switched off TB Updates and notifications more than 2 years ago.

    Was I trying to save Data Allowance? No idea.

    Anyway I'm now fully up to v78 and have signed up for the Newsletter to see when I could upgrade to v91

    Even v78 UI looks great to me and I see ReminderFox is there too.

    Since no longer using Firefox I missed ReminderFox and forgot it could also be a Thunderbird add-on.

    I hope I can continue in this unfairly maligned, "dated" Eco-system till I'm pushing up the daisies.

    https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/91.0/releasenotes/

    -----------

    I don't like modern UIs with hamburgers, context sensitive unavailability or even disclosure of options.

    I've been very computer literate for decades. I can tolerate and use W10 but not going to bother with W11, even if I could find workarounds for the hardware requirements.

    I am a beginner with Mobile Phones - Android.

    Recent examples to annoy me:

    Q: Where is the '$' key/symbol? Answer: Press And Hold any currency key. Doh!

    Q: How do I set the Countdown Timer?

    Answer: I accidentally found it on my new phone. On the Clock/Timer screen, Swipe the digits up and down the screen! Not Left/Right or try to edit the Field.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      A few years ago, reference Office 365...

      Can't I download the Office applications to my computer? I prefer the non-web version for when I'm working offline.

      OK, you click on the field of 9 dots on the top left of the page in your web browser next to where it says Office 365... No, not on the words Office 365, that takes you somewhere else, it's the 9 dots... Yes I know it's not very obvious... don't shout at me! I didn't write the bloody thing.

  13. Reality_Cheque

    Training

    Alas, I need to "primary" the skill of being PC.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Training

      Carefull, I tried to show the examiner my primary piece and got arrested

  14. Fred Goldstein

    I'm still using version 68, since 78 broke a lot of important add-ons. I'd pay extra if they'd add the "personalities" feature of old Eudora; v68 supports the Folder Account add-on which matches the from address to the folder your cursor has selected, but it really is best to match the message itself. It looked to me like the t'bird developers were more content with playing around with new tools than with maintaining capabilities.

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