back to article Taiwan president pokes the bear by saying the nation needs to lessen its supply chain dependency on China

Taiwan's need to pull in external tech talent and the nation's supply chain dependence on China were two topics covered in a rare interview with President Tsai Ing-wen by Japanese outlet Bungei Shunju. Taiwan's semiconductor industry dominates the global marketplace with homegrown giants like TSMC and in 2020 claimed 70 per …

  1. Magani
    Pirate

    A courageous decision, minister

    "Tsai described the government's approach to China as "maintaining the status quo," ..."

    That might sit well with the Taiwanese government, but I suspect that the CCP have different ideas. That particular bear doesn't need any poking to react.

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: A courageous decision, minister

      Maintaining the status quo isn't poking the bear. Poking the bear would be formally claiming independence. Given the way the Chinese government are treating Hong Kong - they're only pushing more Taiwanese people into the camp that the only reason they don't declare formal statehood is fear of invasion by China.

      Talking about decoupling supply chains is a bit more provocative though But then the Chinese government are going to have to get used to that, as there are a lot of people thinking it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A courageous decision, minister

        Decoupling supply chains aka buying from somebody else is something that almost everybody does when the nation in question is threatening to invade.

        And if that doesn't irritate your people enough to consider not paying for the weapons they are threatening to use on you then threatening you and your allies with nuclear obliteration is almost certainly going to.

      2. gandalfcn Silver badge

        Re: A courageous decision, minister

        "Given the way the Chinese government are treating Hong Kong." You mean far better than the UK ever did?

        "Talking about decoupling supply chains is a bit more provocative though". Indeed, business people won't like that given the amount they have invested on the mainland

        1. NerryTutkins

          Re: A courageous decision, minister

          It's true there was no democracy in HK under Britain, but the residents were never particular fussed. I lived in Taiwan in the mid 90s, and visited HK probably 10 times or so in the few years before it was handed back. The reason was largely pragmatism - their economy did very well because of the unique position they had as gateway to China, and Britain was largely and hands-off government, that certainly didn't suppress dissent, kick down doors and threaten trouble makers. I suppose it was seen as a benign dictator in some respects.

          With hindsight, it would have been rather better if Britain had established democracy and self-rule in HK a bit earlier, especially as Taiwan was democratising itself as a process through the early to mid 90s so they could have bound the two closer together.

          But China's present actions to crush dissent and break the agree 50 years of continuity would have happened regardless. I don't think anyone thinks that China would have had any more respect for HK democracy if it had have been well established by the British years or decades before the handover. That's not how China works, evidently.

          1. gandalfcn Silver badge

            Re: A courageous decision, minister

            I lived in HK for many years and presumably the only reason you visited HK was a quick visit to get your RoC visa renewed.

            The authorities may have seemed benign to you but most dissent and protest was rather violently put down.

            "With hindsight, it would have been rather better if Britain had established democracy and self-rule in HK a bit earlier," what's with the "a bit earlier"? There was no real democracy, just as there isn't now.

            Many of the laws currently being used are the laws enacted and enforced when HK was a colony.

            What is you position oh the brutal oppression of the indigenous peoples of Taiwan?

            It is currently very trendy to bask the PRC, probably because the West has screwed up things so badly and needs to deflect attention away.

      3. TVU Silver badge

        Re: A courageous decision, minister

        Given the way that autonomy has been eroded in both Hong Kong and Macau, including the banning of pro-democracy candidates, there is no way that the Taiwanese people would voluntarily opt to join the increasingly harsh Xi Jinping dictatorship (We need you back, Hu Jintao).

  2. alain williams Silver badge

    Too much of the world ...

    relies excessively on China in its supply chain. This makes us vulnerable to an increasingly capricious government; they feel confident due to their increasing economic power and so feel empowered to impose their world view on others.

    The danger is that China will insist that companies that deal with it agree to small demands (eg refer to Taiwan as part of mainland China), then more and more of them.

    Putting our supply eggs in one basket is dangerous, no matter where that basket is.

    1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: Too much of the world ...

      When you look at all the issues that we've seen for years now, it seems sensible for all countries to support their own manufacturers and manufacturing - the issue with buying from other countries is that the local business CEO's are making money but the rest of the population is not.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Too much of the world ...

        Brexit was sold with the concept of fixing this by taking control of our country but it turned out that we lost control (look at all medical sanitary supply mess) with the CEO's making lots by keeping their traditional control over manufacturing everything elsewhere to fill their pockets.

      2. gandalfcn Silver badge

        Re: Too much of the world ...

        That's capitalism for you.

      3. gandalfcn Silver badge

        Re: Too much of the world ...

        Totally impossible unless countries become totally communist, and that never works.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Too much of the world ...

      If you look carefully, you'll notice that half your eggs are in an American basket. So no worries! Being vulnerable to two capricious governments can't be wrong!

    3. gandalfcn Silver badge

      Re: Too much of the world ...

      "an increasingly capricious government". Do you know what capricious means? Seems not given the capricious nature of government in the USA. Whether one agrees with the PRC or not, one thing it isn't is capricious.

    4. gandalfcn Silver badge

      Re: Too much of the world ...

      Thanks for agreeing you don't know what capricious means. and neither do the dwnvoters.

  3. devin3782

    I think everyone could take a leaf out of Taiwan's book here.

    1. NetBlackOps

      Pretty much we're all taking pages out of Taiwan's book. Even the US.

    2. gandalfcn Silver badge

      And invest more money in the PRC. OK.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      In what sense?

      If you mean by wiping out the indigenous people of Formosa and are now waving the banner of freedom, then I would think that they took a leaf out of the USA's book.

      The actual people of "Taiwan" don't particularly like Tsai (or the main land for that matter) and would like to get their country back.

      1. gandalfcn Silver badge

        Re: In what sense?

        Quite, but all the bleeding heart know-nothings are blissfully unaware of that, and when they are informed they rub away because it doesn't suit their bigoted agendas.

        Cue fact denying downvoters.

  4. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

    Oh bother!

    Said Winnie the Pooh.

    1. Josco
      Pint

      Re: Oh bother!

      I see what you did there. Have a beer.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I blame Nixon.

    Pretending that the ROC isn't the only legitimate government of all of China was a HUGE mistake.

    There is one China. And Taiwan houses its legitimate government.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I blame Nixon.

      The idea of a nation of China, rather than an mere area, is an early 20th century concept. IIRC from Sun Yat Sen. He might have got the idea from Empress Cixi. Up to then it was a collection of warlord states of which competed for dominance. Some succeeded. When not, outsiders did or chronic local warfare continued between competing states. The current central organisation is probably another temporary political setup that is likely, based on historical precedents, to collapse bloodily in about 20 years. A reading of "The Dark History of China" may be informative for non-ideologues. About the same time for Europe to refragment possibly. Conclusion: As others have said, single points of failure are always a bad idea.

      1. Man inna barrel

        Re: I blame Nixon.

        Actually, uniting warring states into a single nation would appear to be the norm throughout history. The UK did this a while ago. The clue is in the word "United". Before that, England itself was not always that united, hence the Wars of the Roses, the Civil War, etc.

        1. gandalfcn Silver badge

          Re: I blame Nixon.

          Indeed, but Little Englander, Gammon Brexiteers don't like facts.

      2. gandalfcn Silver badge

        Re: I blame Nixon.

        I think I'd trust an examination of the history of China to a real historian, thanks all the same.

        Ever heard of the state of Qin, aka China. Funny that the British Empire considered it extant rather a long time before the "early 20th century".

        Presumably England to is only a few hundred years old because it was "a collection of warlord states of which competed for dominance."

        Why on earth should Europe fragment and return to idiotic nationalism and conflict? Seems some people know nothing whatsoever about history. Conclusion: As others have said, united we stand, divided we fall.

    2. NerryTutkins

      Re: I blame Nixon.

      It would have been impossible to ignore forever the fact that the CCP had won the civil war, and controlled the entire country, except a small island off the south coast. You can accept them as a the legitimate government for a few years after the exile perhaps, but by the 70s it was clear that the nationalists were never going to be able to take back the mainland.

      The mistake was in accepting the "one china" principle. It was never really part of the debate, because both the CCP and the KMT in Taiwan both laid claim to the whole of China. So there was nobody at the time to push the case that Taiwan was independent and should have a right to self-determination. Can't even blame Nixon for that really.

      Now things are very different. I spent couple of years living in Taiwan in the 90s, it held its first direct presidential elections. It has become a vibrant democracy, and a leading progressive country in the region. Meanwhile, the population increasingly see themselves as Taiwanese rather than Chinese. Something like 90% now.

      So in the same way Nixon in the 70s recognized the reality at the time, the west now needs to accept the reality in Taiwan of the 2020s, which is that the people there no longer regard themselves as Chinese, they no longer want to rule the whole of China, they just want to be able to run their own country along democratic principles, play their role in the world, have their athletes compete under their own flag and not have the constant threat of China blocking them and putting pressure on western countries to choose a side because of economic reasons. China is powerful economically, but at the same time, if the western nations all simultaneously agreed to diplomatically recognize Taiwan, China would bankrupt itself pretty quickly and then face an internal uprising if it decided to cut all ties and trade with the west.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Holmes

    There are things you do and things you say

    All countries should be concerned about over reliance on a single country whose policies can change overnight. Relying on an expansionist country whose policies can change overnight, like China, is a really bad idea. Taiwan clearly should be taking these steps.

    But there was no need to say it. It might have been a political decision but, with the general election years away, waiting and saying 'we did' rather than 'we will' would seem to carry more clout.

    I wonder if this was based on US prodding and directed as much at Australia's politics as China's.

    1. gandalfcn Silver badge

      Re: There are things you do and things you say

      Relying on an expansionist country whose policies can change overnight, like the USA, is a really bad idea. On the other and the PRC's policies tend not to change very much.

  7. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    The Pooh

    Is hardly a bear.

    Although many Taiwanese companies now have production bases in China,

    This is a mistake. They get economically dependent and then China won't even have to use any troops to acquire the island. They'll just send bailiffs.

    1. gandalfcn Silver badge

      Re: The Pooh

      Why a mistake? Just because you hate the PRC?

  8. Alpharious

    Everyone needs to lessen their supply chain with China, even China

    The world is too dependent on Chinese manufacturing. Sure, there are quality control issues, "chabuduo" mentality, but when we really look at things, they produce a lot for the world. This has caused strain on their infrastructure, and global shipping infrastructure. All it takes is for one bad flood, one bad season, or a dock workers strike and the world will feel the pinch. The supply chain is too inflexible and it's going to burn us sooner or later if we don't correct this overdependence.

    1. NetBlackOps

      Re: Everyone needs to lessen their supply chain with China, even China

      It's still down to what the C-suites actually do to change this single point of failure and, so far, all I've seen is a ton of verbage in business magazines with zero changes addressing the problem.

    2. gandalfcn Silver badge

      Re: Everyone needs to lessen their supply chain with China, even China

      Erm, no, that is from an over-reliance on international trade. Covid has caused problems but that is because strict controls were quickly put in place.

      A stevedores strike in Rotterdam would have a disastrous effect on the EU (and the UK) than a problem in Ningbo.

  9. MrNigel

    "Can't Get You Out Of My head"

    I enjoyed this historic explanation of China's political and economic aspirations very much. Great music as well although I guess there are a few El Reg contributors who have a different view of Adam Curtis.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p093wp6h

    1. gandalfcn Silver badge

      Re: "Can't Get You Out Of My head"

      Most el Reg readers don't have a clue about the Far East other than what they are told by FoxNews or the Mail/Telegraph.

      What i find saddening is that they all bang on about the poor Chinese being oppressed by the evil CCP yet when said Chinese people arrive in the USA (& UK) they are treated as terrorists, parasites, spies etc. Just as Afghan refugees have been.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Team ups.

    Maybe time for Taiwan to seek to join Japan. That would piss in Pho bears honey lol

    Would make a lot of Taiwanese happy though.

    1. gandalfcn Silver badge

      Re: Team ups.

      Many things in Taiwan are Nihon based but neither the Han nor the Taiwanese are too keen on being returned to Japanese control.

  11. aks

    Bear versus Dragon

    It's normally "poking the dragon" for China while "poking the bear" traditionally refers to Russia.

    1. gandalfcn Silver badge

      Re: Bear versus Dragon

      Quite. But traditionally dragons are peaceful. I suspect it was meant as a Panda joke.

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