back to article Boots on Moon in 2024? NASA OIG says you better moonwalk away from that date, because suits ain't ready

NASA's Office of Inspector General has stuck another knife in the agency's dreams of a 2024 Moon landing by pointing out [PDF] that, er, the astronauts will have to be good at holding their breath because the space suits are unlikely to be ready before 2025. The report makes for grim reading for Artemis enthusiasts still …

  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Nasa priority

    >Sending the first woman and first person of color to the lunar surface

    So as scientific as the Apollo missions?

    At least this has fewer Nazis

    1. A. Coatsworth Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Nasa priority

      >>At least this has fewer Nazis

      Maybe that is the problem! : https://xkcd.com/984/

      (Joke icon in case anyone thinks I'm serious)

    2. Arthur the cat Silver badge

      Re: Nasa priority

      I'd happily see them send the first(*) politician to the moon.

      Provided it was one way. Wouldn't need to bother about the space suits, politicians have their own suits anyway.

      (*) and second, third, fourth, …

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

        Re: Nasa priority

        There is someone currently brooding in Florida who would be an ideal candidate. The suit would have to be tall with small hands

        1. RobThBay

          Re: Nasa priority

          Tall and very wide.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Nasa priority

        "I'd happily see them send the first(*) politician to the moon."

        They did. Although in reverse order, ie moonwalker first, then became a politician.

        From Time:

        "In 1976, Apollo 17 moonwalker and New Mexico Republican Harrison Schmitt was elected to the Senate."

    3. Joe W Silver badge

      Re: Nasa priority

      Yeah, these remarks are... strange (to me) at the very least. When I read this, it sounds as if they are selected just because they have the right chromosome combinations and pigmentation, which is certainly not the case - there are enough bright and able people to select from, some will be female (like about half of the population) and some will have non-European appearance (like, dunno, 25-ish percent in the US?). Surely it should not take any extra effort to ensure those stats are sort of represented among astronauts.

      Unfortunately we do not live in a world where we do these things purely by ability, otherwise "affirmative action" would be unneccessary - and that the markup of the population would be reflected almost everywhere would not be the cause for any comment. Yeah, it's a female coloured astronaut - so what?[*]

      Unfortunately when I take a look around in places I have worked at: there is still a pronounced disbalance when it comes to positions above a certain paygrade - even taking into account the distribution (of gender/sex/ethnicity/whatever) among graduates in related fields.

      [*] to me this would not seem strange, nor a female, coloured president / head of state, or a police office, fire fighter, race car driver, pilot, IT specialist, engineer - or a male nursery school teacher, nurse, receptionist, flight attendant...

      1. awavey

        Re: Nasa priority

        In fairness it was remarks made by a NASA communications rep, who no doubt does think the sole purpose of spending 86billion dollars on the program is just to put the first woman or first person of color bootprints on the surface of the moon as the main priority.

        The people working on the program who will be a mix of people of color, women and yes white men, might well think differently about its aims being more scientific and long term space exploration is the main priority and that the best people for the role to land on the moon will be selected regardless of gender or race backgrounds.

        And if it does happen to be a woman or person of color then theyll be selected because they demonstrated they were the best candidate.

        As we can see as the latest Cygnus resupply to the ISS mission craft named in honour of Ellison Onizuka because 35 years ago NASA picked people of colour and women to send into space, because they were the best of us all.

    4. NoneSuch Silver badge
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: Nasa priority

      Sorry, we can't send you, even though you are fully qualified.

      The next seat is earmarked for a green eyed transgender, paralyzed from the waist down, left handed chiropodist, from Zanzibar. Those boxes ain't gonna tick themselves...

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Nasa priority

        >you are fully qualified.

        You are payload - the only qualification is look good on the press release, no convictions and preferably no proof that you abused any children.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sorry, we can't send you, even though you are fully qualified.

        There's always this:

        https://arxiv.org/abs/1905.03314

        Entrofy Your Cohort: A Data Science Approach to Candidate Selection

        D. Huppenkothen, B. McFee, L. Norén

        Selecting a cohort from a set of candidates is a common task within and beyond academia. Admitting students, awarding grants, choosing speakers for a conference are situations where human biases may affect the make-up of the final cohort. We propose a new algorithm, Entrofy, designed to be part of a larger decision making strategy aimed at making cohort selection as just, quantitative, transparent, and accountable as possible. We suggest this algorithm be embedded in a two-step selection procedure. First, all application materials are stripped of markers of identity that could induce conscious or sub-conscious bias. During blind review, the committee selects all applicants, submissions, or other entities that meet their merit-based criteria. This often yields a cohort larger than the admissible number. In the second stage, the target cohort can be chosen from this meritorious pool via a new algorithm and software tool. Entrofy optimizes differences across an assignable set of categories selected by the human committee. Criteria could include gender, academic discipline, experience with certain technologies, or other quantifiable characteristics. The Entrofy algorithm yields the computational maximization of diversity by solving the tie-breaking problem with provable performance guarantees. We show how Entrofy selects cohorts according to pre-determined characteristics in simulated sets of applications and demonstrate its use in a case study. This cohort selection process allows human judgment to prevail when assessing merit, but assigns the assessment of diversity to a computational process less likely to be beset by human bias. Importantly, the stage at which diversity assessments occur is fully transparent and auditable with Entrofy. Splitting merit and diversity considerations into their own assessment stages makes it easier to explain why a given candidate was selected or rejected.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Nasa priority

        NoneSuch complains about discrimination that doesn't exist for a job they would never be capable of doing. Is this a definition of white fright?

    5. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Nasa priority

      So as scientific as the Apollo missions?

      All successful Apollo missions deployed a decent amount of science in the ALSEP packages.

  2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    That will show them!

    There is actually a leaked video how preparations for a Moon landing came about.

    1. Muscleguy

      Re: That will show them!

      Not to mention if they had faked it the USSR would have crowed about it. The French too most like.

      Note this is a separate issue to Uncle Vlad getting his spooks to encourage various conspiracy theories in the West including, um, that the moon landings were faked.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: That will show them!

      "There is actually a leaked video how preparations for a Moon landing came about."

      Brilliant! Thanks for that link :-)

  3. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    One BEEELION dollars

    For some space suits?

    Haven't they tried sports direct ?

    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: One BEEELION dollars

      Aren't these suits designed for moonlighting at one's estate by selling space cookies and trips to space?

    2. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: One BEEELION dollars

      They should hire SpaceX. Half the cost in a fraction of the time.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: One BEEELION dollars

        Or just send Geordies

    3. zuckzuckgo Silver badge

      Re: One BEEELION dollars

      I hope they are getting the buy one suit get one free offer.

  4. gecho

    Commercial Space

    The bureaucracy of government run space programs seemed have resulted in stagnation / maintaining the status quo. With so much red tape and being subject to the whims of the ever changing government leadership, NASA seemed to just stick with whatever worked.

    Newer commercial space companies like SpaceX are motivated to continually improve to reduce cost. The old guard NASA contractors are stuck in the old cost plus model where there is little incentive to make anything cheaper.

    1. ITS Retired

      Re: Commercial Space

      The real problem here is NASA has been starved for funds for most of its life. The Powers That Be would rather fund military bases around the world and devices that kill lots of people, than fund research and space.

      The F-35 comes to mind, as do new Navy ships designed for the last war. Along with paying Russia to ferry our astronauts back and forth to the ISS.

      It's a wonder NASA still exists.

  5. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Time dilation?

    > development has been underway for 14 years

    The suits used for Apollo were the result of a project started in 1962 that delivered its product 7 years later.

    1. TheProf

      Re: Time dilation?

      Yes but they had a bit more cash to spend on the national imperative.

      Also a lot of foreign types lent a helping hand.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Time dilation?

        And they had the Playtex Bra and Girdle Seamstresses

  6. Jim Mitchell

    I've seen enough sci-fi movies and TV shows to know that for short jaunts outside the ship, you really don't need a suit. Hop out the airlock, touch the regolith, smile for the cameras, and hop back in your ship. Much cheaper!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      you really don't need a suit

      I'm pretty the documentary "Radar Men from the Moon" proved conclusively that such suits aren't necessary on the moon. Unless you are Commando Cody, of course. But then his suit *was* rocket propelled.

    2. Rich 11

      It strikes me that the most dangerous part there is touching the regolith. I'd want some really thick gloves, or at least a good pair of woolly socks.

  7. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

    Duct Tape Space Suits

    Scott Manley has done an excellent video on the plausability of a duct-tape space suit.

    1. richardcox13

      Re: Duct Tape Space Suits

      Did you check where the link in the article goes?

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  8. Blofeld's Cat
    Coat

    Er ...

    "... establishing a long-term presence at the Moon under Artemis is a priority ..."

    I can assure you that if we had a pub called "The Moon under Artemis" around here, I too would be looking to establish a long-term presence there.

    1. Pete 2 Silver badge

      Re: Er ...

      > if we had a pub called "The Moon under Artemis"

      Yes, but if you did, the beer would cost £10 million a pint. While they promised to deliver it to you in less than a minute, in reality it would take 10+ years and they would spill the first several pints they tried to send you. After that, they would destroy each of the solid-diamond pint glasses after a single use.

  9. doug_bostrom

    In fairness these suits are being designed to solve at least partially the dust problem. Apollo suits were at EOL after a few hours' use. Search ntrs.nasa.gov for info on results in '60s, integration of that information, results now. It's not simple.

  10. This post has been deleted by its author

  11. Stoneshop
    Coat

    Boots on the moon

    Simple.

    As long as they don't have to have an astronaut wearing them.

  12. Dr. G. Freeman

    Why can't they fabricate some new suits using the Apollo designs? Or are they lost too, like the Saturn V paperwork ?

    Could use them as a base for more modern suits, instead of working from scratch.

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