back to article Engineers work to open Boeing Starliner's valves as schedule pressures mount

Boeing's Starliner CST 100 – aka the Calamity Capsule – continues to remain firmly wedded to Earth as engineers work to resolve a problem with valves in the spacecraft's thruster systems. The valves, which connect to thrusters used for aborts and manoeuvring in orbit, didn't open as designed during the 3 August launch attempt …

  1. alain williams Silver badge

    "assumed Boeing knew what it was doing."

    Does anyone assume that these days ? Too many memories of the 737 max.

    1. simonlb Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: "assumed Boeing knew what it was doing."

      Companies like Grumman and Rockwell have been doing this kind of work for over 50 years so it can't be that hard. Anyone would think this was rocket science...

      1. NoneSuch Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: "assumed Boeing knew what it was doing."

        "Boeing's Starliner CST 100 – aka the Calamity Capsule"

        This first line is why the Reg is always the first news site I check.

    2. FIA Silver badge

      Re: "assumed Boeing knew what it was doing."

      I have started to wonder what a SpaceX aeroplane would be like.

      (Sure, you'd probably want to skip the first 10-15 flights, but after that.....)

      1. phuzz Silver badge

        Re: "assumed Boeing knew what it was doing."

        It would have a cutting edge autopilot which only occasionally gets confused and flies into mountains.

        Oh, and anyone who flew on one would become unbearably smug about it and insist on telling you that it was the future of aviation, and how Musk is amazing.

        1. Gordon 10

          Re: "assumed Boeing knew what it was doing."

          TBF to Musk Airline autopilot is a solved problem available on Arduino's these days.

          SpaceX are the only ones who have solved "Rocket Autopilot" landing onto a ship in the sea, however.

      2. HandleAlreadyTaken

        Re: "assumed Boeing knew what it was doing."

        what a SpaceX aeroplane would be like.

        Well, to begin with, there'd be no instruments, indicators or controls. The dashboard will be instead covered with a low quality plastic, looking like seventies' Formica furniture, and have an iPad stuck in the middle. The iPad wouldn't be facing towards the pilot, and it won't be moveable, but all the pilot needs to do is to stop looking out and turn his head towards the iPad (maybe lean back a little). That's ok, because the outside is pretty boring anyway - just clouds and stuff. All the relevant information like attitude or radar is displayed on the iPad, though of course, the screen would be modal, so the controls won't all be available in all modes. However, there's a very good chance the pilot would be able to see the attitude almost immediately (unless the iPad is currently playing music or showing maps, or maybe on the settings screen). Also, for simplicity, there won't be any physical buttons or levers for controlling the plane; instead, the iPad would provide touch controls for flaps and what not, all easily accessible only a few levels of menus down from the main screen.

    3. Trollslayer

      Re: "assumed Boeing knew what it was doing."

      Boeing used to be an aircraft company with aircraft people on the board.

      Now the board consists of money people and it shows

      Old board - created the 747.

      New board - how much can we cut?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "assumed Boeing knew what it was doing."

        Boeing since the 1930s slowly became a company that could make just a single type of airplane - and even with that type it tried to keep alive a sixty years old design with software tricks that doomed two planes.

        It had to buy McDonnell and others to re-enter markets it lost, and even since then we didn't see great new airplanes.

  2. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Doesn't inspire confidence

    > have been "applying mechanical, electrical and thermal techniques to prompt the valves to open."

    When the acme of Boing's technical input is to whack them with a hammer.

    1. John Robson Silver badge

      Re: Doesn't inspire confidence

      Turn it off and on again, hit it, take a blowtorch/heat gun to it…

    2. skeptical i

      Re: Doesn't inspire confidence

      If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Doesn't inspire confidence

        But don't forget the WD40.

        1. Denarius
          Flame

          Re: Doesn't inspire confidence

          indeed. WD40, 1 lb hammer, 10 lb hammer, gas axe, crowbar, acetylene torch... or just re-entry. Icon because that's what may happen if Boing maintains standards. One would think this things parts got tested somewhere before assembly, after assembly etc.

    3. Imhotep

      Re: Doesn't inspire confidence

      Yes, that would be the mechanical technique using what we fondly refer to as a BFH.

      Unfortunately, for rocketry you don't have the option of the 7" drop like you do with stuck hard drives.

    4. Mark 85
      Coat

      Re: Doesn't inspire confidence

      Isn't Rule #1 "Beware of flying in something built by the lowest bidder"? Maybe they'll have to launch with a techie and his/her hammer strapped to the outside?

      Icon.. the techie strapped to outside making sure there's no loose change in his/her pockets.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Doesn't inspire confidence

        However rule #0 is, avoid flying on anything built by a sole bidder on a government cost+ contract

    5. JWLong

      Re: Doesn't inspire confidence

      or get a bigger hammer.

  3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Best qualiy strategy

    The Board and C suite should be on the first crewed flights. Branson and Bezos have set a precedent for this.

    1. Antron Argaiv Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Best qualiy strategy

      Thinking about it, that would be the cure for so many of society's problems.

      I'd like to add Betsy DeVos (and her whole family), Louis DeJoy (he can bring envelopes to cancel), and the entire Sackler family to the manifest.

      The list is long...

  4. Bitsminer Silver badge

    Dum dee dum, dum dum dum

    NASA has form in using hammers.

    Alan Bean applied the same technique to the color video camera on Apollo 12, when the picture went out after the camera was accidently pointed at the sun.

    116:16:02 Bean: I hit it on the top with my hammer. I figured we didn't have a thing to lose.

    https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a12/a12.tvtrbls.html

  5. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

    Keeeeerist.

    If it's a Boeing, there's no way I'm going.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Boeing knows best !!!

    Looks like Boeing has sneaked in an MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System) equivalent into the Starliner !!!

    No doubt to make the Starliner handle like a 'Space shuttle' when in orbit.

    or

    (from wikipedia article)

    "In July 2018, a test anomaly was reported in which there was a hypergolic propellant leak due to several faulty abort system valves."

    Seems that the issue was solved by 'welding the valves shut' !!!

    Not sure how that helps when the abort system may be necessary (it is Boeing after all !!!)

    :=)

    1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

      Re: Boeing knows best !!!

      Not sure how that helps when the abort system may be necessary (it is Boeing after all !!!)

      No problem, the complete launch including ignition (and lift off) will be aborted.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "applying mechanical, electrical and thermal techniques to prompt the valves to open."

    Hitting it.

    Turning it off and on again.

    Setting fire to it.

  8. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Facepalm

    No surprise

    Well, the company name does sound rather like Boing!

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tip of the iceberg?

    Question:. If they have this problem now, how many other problems have they not detected yet?

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Tip of the iceberg?

      Before the first launch, parts were tested for each phase of the mission but not tested for a complete mission - each phase one after the other in real time. This time, parts have been tested for the full duration of the mission. What Boeing tried to avoid saying was that the parts were not connected to each other and performed the full duration tests independently.

      The type of problem to expect is one that only shows up when everything is connected.

    2. Crypto Monad Silver badge

      Re: Tip of the iceberg?

      And equally - if they don't understand *why* half the valves are sticking, what chance is there that the problem won't reoccur?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They chose Jane Hart to pilot the Calamity Capsule, but unfortunately she died of old age at 93 before it could launch.

    Maybe they should animal test it first. Maybe a parrot, they are long lived enough to see it through to launch. Norwegian Blues are very relaxed.

    1. KarMann Silver badge
      Linux

      And I hear they prefer kipping on their backs, the usual position for launch, so everything works out nicely that way.

      But, maybe a penguin would do nicely? -->

  11. James Ashton

    The SRBs have a time limit

    there is every chance that the next flight of the Calamity Capsule could slip toward the end of the year, or even into 2022.

    But the solid rocket boosters are only good for 12 months after their five segments have been stacked together. After that they're supposed to destack, re-inspect and restack them. Lots more dollars to blow there if there's a long delay.

    1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

      Re: The SRBs have a time limit

      Starliner is riding an Atlas V, not an SLS

      1. AdamT

        Re: The SRBs have a time limit

        This configuration of Altas 5 does have two SRBs on it:

        https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/launch-booklets/ula_oft2_mob.pdf

        (I think Altas 5 can have between 0 and 5 SRBs depending on mission profile)

        But I don't know whether there are any "use by" limitations on those ones ...

        Edit: Ah yes, here is the upsettingly-asymmetric set of options for the SRBs: https://spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av001/020814rocket/a5solids.jpg

        1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

          Re: The SRBs have a time limit

          You are correct, of course, but they're not the time-limited multi-segment SRBs of SLS.

          The single-SRB config of the Atlas V is the most amusing as it shoots off the pad sideways.

  12. Elledan

    Props to SpaceX

    Watching Boeing fumble its way through Starliner development and testing makes one realise just how boring the Dragon capsule development and testing was. And Boeing is supposed to have done this before.

    1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

      Re: Props to SpaceX

      There was that one Dragon 2 spacecraft that blew itself to pieces during ground testing after it had returned from the ISS...

    2. roytrubshaw
      Paris Hilton

      Re: Props to SpaceX

      At this rate SpaceX will have completed all their Commercial Crew launches before Boeing has completed the testing!

      So much for showing the upstarts "how it should be done".

    3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Props to SpaceX

      "And Boeing is supposed to have done this before."

      Boeing the company may have done it before, but the people at Boeing doing it now probably weren't even born the last time it was done.

      1. Denarius

        Re: Props to SpaceX

        correct. Whats more, the people running (?) Boing are not Boeing people. They moved out when Boeing "bought" Lockheed. Lockheed manglement were known for loving bureaucracy, hence the Skunkworks isolation under Kelly Johnson to get things done. We now know why Boeing bought Lockheed, not the other way round.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    crazy

    For a while, going through this article, and the apparent challenge, I though this bird was still high in the sky, but nope, it is on earth.

    How can't they sort out this thing which is totally accessible is beyond me. A bit like a car mech taking weeks to sort out an oil pressure problem.

    "The challenge now is to get the rest of the valves open and demonstrate the process can be repeated before sending the stack back to the pad for the uncrewed Orbital Flight Test-2 mission."

    Ok, so RCA is out of the window then. Just flap it open/close 2-3 times and call it a day. Amazing space science.

    1. The First Dave

      Re: crazy

      Err, these valves ARE pretty high in the sky, relative to how far an engineer can reach un-aided.

      Also, likely to be on the inside of the rocket, and nowhere near an inspection panel.

      1. Avatar of They
        Happy

        Re: crazy

        At this stage, bearing in mind embarrassment for Boeing as SpaceX have perfected being a space taxi and NASA's white van man.

        I would expect the capsule to be on bricks with everything not welded on to have been removed for access to fix this. And an army of engineers all over it 24/7.

        Not just staring through an inspection panel now and then.

  14. FuzzyTheBear
    Mushroom

    the old classic ..

    Boeing just can't get anything right seems like .. and this time it's in the face of the world.

    Failures like this are killing what was left of Boeing's reputation .. as far as i am concerned , like for the 737 MAX i would never step a foot in one of them.

    Even for free ..

    Failures one after the other kind of makes me trust a Pinto more than their capsule.

    1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

      Re: the old classic ..

      like for the 737 MAX i would never step a foot in one of them.

      I just might consider it after the engines have been removed.

    2. Trollslayer
      Flame

      Re: the old classic ..

      The 747 was created when the board were aircraft people.

      The 737 MAX was bodged together when the board were (and are) money people.

  15. Archivist

    Valves?

    You'd have thought that even Boeing would be using semiconductors by now!

  16. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Mushroom

    I wonder

    if they outsourced the building of the capsule to the russians and that one russian guy they have decided to hammer the valves in upside down.... he has previous form in doing that....

    Think Proton and an inertial guidance platform that has a big arrow and a sign saying "fit this way only"........

  17. Petalium

    I bet there is an accountant being very pleased with himself having saved 10 cents/valve.

    -Look same spec but cheaper, let’s buy from Wish!

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