back to article Microsoft broke British and European competition laws, UK reseller tells High Court

Microsoft's attempts to kill off resellable perpetual software licences infringe the EU constitution and UK competition law alike, according to the legal filings of a reseller suing Redmond for £270m in London's High Court. Details of ValueLicensing's lawsuit against Microsoft are now in the public domain after the US-based …

  1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Microsoft Maths

    So they could get their products £270m cheaper without any silly subscription malware? (subscription somewhat needs an agent running in the background to monitor the "health" of the subscription, plus all that extra telemetry...).

    Frankly, I think subscriptions should be illegal - or at least you should own the perpetual license after max 24 instalments. Company should also be required to fix any bugs for up to 6 years after purchase or release the source code so that the customer could get someone to fix it and then charge the company.

    1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft Maths

      If subscriptions were illegal then the company employs programmers to create the software, and once it's sold to the users they tell the programmers to fix the bugs. But who's going to pay the programmers for supporting an application that's generating them zero income?

      Subscriptions encourage a company to support the product, the original sale just paid a bonus to the sales dept.

      1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        Re: Microsoft Maths

        If subscriptions were illegal then the company employs programmers to create the software, and once it's sold to the users they tell the programmers to fix the bugs.

        But who's going to pay the programmers for supporting an application that's generating them zero income?

        If a company sells you a broken unit, for example a leaking bowl, then how are they going to pay their employees to fix it if you already paid for it once? The mystery...

        Subscriptions encourage a company to support the product, the original sale just paid a bonus to the sales dept.

        No it doesn't. Plenty of companies selling buggy and almost unusable software as subscription and they do nothing to fix problems.

        Also how do you explain that the workers' salary does not grow with the number of subscriptions? Another mystery...

        It's a pure greed and exploitation of both workers and consumers.

        1. NoneSuch Silver badge
          Go

          Re: Microsoft Maths

          Linux

          LibreOffice

          Done.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft Maths

      It's too complicated a topic to be exclusively on one side or the other. The bit I find offensive is the use of high cost licenses to keep milking customers without any meaningful innovation in return, which is something that companies trying to hang on to monopolies are prone to do.

      You have Microsoft, you have the games from Oracle who is deservedly imfamous for it, and you have the lock in market from Adobe which has been quietly establishing a monopoly position through buying up fonts that Microsoft could have only ever dreamt of, but which hasn't come onto most people's radar yet because it's typically only designers who spot this, especially when they try to buy standalone webfonts (i.e. not via TypeKit, which is basically seems to run the same privacy busting game as Google fonts).

      What I am OK with is genuinely useful apps asking for a small annual fee so they can continue development, that's fair because it benefits both parties. I still rather pay outright, but for some I'm happy to pay an annual fee because it helps me too - which is the whole reason to pay a fee in the first place.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Microsoft Maths

        Or just go back to "the good old days" where you buy an OS, software, programmes, apps, whatever as you see fit and you "own" it for life. And like with physical products, you get support and a "warranty" for 5 years, ie bug fixes. After that, you are on your own unless you buy the newer, latest version.

        "App" developers, both small and large, get constant income from sales, when the new version comes out, the old version stops being sold. It's still a constant income, if not as high as subscription services, because people will pay, I dunno, £10 for an "app", every few years or so rather than "only" £2 per month for as long as they want the app. Likewise, something like MS Office for say £250 rather than "only" £10 per month for life.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Microsoft Maths

          No, the large app developers get a constant income from your data, just release an app update via Google and you can sell the users data and locations; "This user is downloading updates at this accounting business location every five days." Ching! Ching!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Microsoft Maths

            Ah, that explains the super frequent updates of the Signal desktop app..

  2. gerryg

    Power to their elbow

    ValueLicensing seem to be heading into the next fifteen years of their life with cheerful understanding of the challenge.

    We should all wish them well though I stop short of setting up a go fund me for them.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Your Windows license has expired...

    I received a call from someone claiming to be from Microsoft Support telling me my Windows license had expired.

    I hung up right away thinking it was just another scammer...

    but after reading this article now I'm not so sure

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Your Windows license has expired...

      Oh, it would have still been a scam, just from a much bigger organisation that has been known to break the law many many times.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Your Windows license has expired...

      MS would never phone you with such information. They send a letter from their lawyers after "reminding" you by email to that account you set up 20 years ago and have since forgotten about.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Imagine if they did this with books

    Would they burn them to stop people buying them secondhand?

    1. SImon Hobson Bronze badge

      Re: Imagine if they did this with books

      Hmm, I now have the Mission Impossible tune in my head ...

      This book will self destruct in 2 weeks - read fast !

      I suspect that if they thought they could get away with it, they would.

    2. Detective Emil

      Re: Imagine if they did this with books

      No, they'd just promote eBooks to make the market for new physical books dry up.

  5. MrBanana

    "we believe will benefit our customers as they adopt cloud technologies"

    That may be what you 'believe', and unfortunately what many will get sucked in too, but I really want the choice. I don't mind paying a one off ownership fee, then a continued support contract, for however long that may last or I can justify. I get to run the software, on my own hardware, even if security updates are no longer available. My choice. Put it all in the cloud under a vague subscription service, where it may fall over tomorrow, or the license terms change beneath my feet? No, not ever.

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