Rocky Linux release attracts 80,000 downloads as ex-CentOS users mull choices Rocky Linux 8.4, which was made generally available early last week, attracted 80,000 downloads within 72 hours, but disaffected CentOS users are wondering whether Rocky, rival AlmaLinux, or some other OS, is the right next move. Both Rocky Linux and AlmaLinux are designed to be binary-compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux …
I actually used White Box Linux when I needed a RHEL clone, but it was a one-man band (or nearly), so after a year or two its maintainer gave up, and recommended CentOS, to which I moved.
Scientific Linux was a bit different, it survived until fairly recently, and the reason is it was not just a RHEL clone, but bundled software that RHEL did not have (I think OpenAFS support was one notable addition).
Scientific Linux was specifically extensions on CentOS for the high energy physics community (think of it as more like Ubuntu Studio vs Ubuntu or similar)
It got discontinued because most of what was in it was rolled into Centos mainstream and there was no longer a need for it.
The increasing brokenness of RH over the last 10-15 years (where package versions may or may not reflect what's actually inside them thanks to backports of various parts of upstream, leading to people deciding that XYZ is out of date and they MUST compile a local version instead) has been increasingly driving the science community into the loving arms of Debian and Ubuntu or Suse
RH have been making it increasingly clear for a long time that "stability" trumps "usability" and being able to run on the latest hardware - their cash cow customers are financial institutions with large fleets of near-identical systems mostly running as thin(ish) clients and everyone else is a nuisance
There's a lot of inertia involved in "still using Redhat" in many places when the reality is that its model of heavily customised and misleadingly versioned RPMs doesn't fit most organisations using it and hasn't since the mid 2000s. Trying to bang that square peg into a round hold makes for a lot of extra administrative effort which can be better spent elsewhere
Yellow Dog was focused on the PowerPC architecture, and had a brief period of popularity for repurposing Apple kit and when PlayStation 3 consoles were used to build supercomputing clusters. That popularity disappeared when interest in using PS3s waned and Apple dropped the PowerPC architecture in favour of x86.
Oh absolutely it was mock because nobody had come to rely on the feature. Interest in OtherOS peaked and waned long before it was removed. The reason why is that the CPU / GPU was too slow to use for much - certainly not to play retro games or play media which might have stimulated some interest. Only a few clusters used it for the Cell processor and they wouldn't have been affected by firmware changes any way. Those making noise about it had never used it ever.
As for why they removed it, Sony took it it out to protect their platform. There was a hypervisor exploit that could have become a viable through OtherOS so the feature went. Obviously Sony were thinking about their bottom line but even owners should see what happens to platforms when they get cracked - they turn into a cesspit of shovelware and die an early death.
Might well be. I hope not. Time will tell but if there's a way i'd stay away from RHEL or anything that depends on it. Personal computers and mainframes have different needs . I can switch distros anytime on my desktops .. but on a mainframe , the implications are enormous. It's not a small matter. Can any fork be trusted to stay the course ? I'd say give it 5 years , then if it's stable, commit to it. But before that , i have a feeling the odds are against any of them being a good choice. Just a feeling.
Not sure that this is an indication of "support" if they've made their own version that they can control. If it was lacking something, they could have just submitted it as a contribution to the project, rather than going "right, we'll have that and slap in a load of our own stuff".
I would guess Google are security conscious, and demand they have control of the software they use.
I also guess they are also cost conscious, so they pick up free software X (like Rocky Linux), do some basic checks and mods, fiddle with package management, and call it their own - however they continually layer those mods over new versions of X. And often they will feed suitable mods back to X as contributions.
Facebook are apparently using CentOS Streams - so on something that doesn't stabilise fully. What will be more interesting will be to see which CentOS fork Amazon picks as the basis for Amazon Linux which is the elephant in the room.[and the largest scale user of the Red Hat ecosystem.]
Given their backgrounds, I'm expecting AlmaLinux to be popular in the webserving/VPS role, and Rocky on the HPC/Scientific/hardware integration role. ..... ScissorHands
I agree, ScissorHands, and Rocky Linux is a perfect candidate for CHAOS* Control which is EMPowering and Tends towards Trends that are Practically Almighty and Virtually Absolute.
Red Hat's CentOS used to fulfil this role, until the company declared that in future it would be only CentOS Stream that previews rather than follows what will be in RHEL.
That has CentOS hosting rather than drivering Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) which is a very convenient in-house AIdDevelopment for Future Systems Drivers .... Core AWEsome Source Ore Providers ..... Mega MetaDataBase Mine Suppliers with Registered Addresses and Quirky Handles everywhere they are landed to share considerably greater news than all are accustomed to and make comfortable with.
* Clouds Hosting Advanced Operating Systems
@Munchausen and all including OP
Clustery options also include Springdale Linux. This RHEL clone dates from before Scientific Linux and is used at IAS and Princeton and a number of other academic sites.
https://researchcomputing.princeton.edu/systems/tiger
Springdale also works fine on my crappy old refurbished laptop. Cool isn't it? Boot iso only then rest of install over the wire.
PS: does anyone know what Fermilab and CERN are doing after the CentOS discontinuation? Free RHEL licences or what?
PPS: no mention of Oracle Linux? Like it is a total non-person? It is still there.
Fermilab and CERN were using Scientific and were mulling switching to CentOS after Scientific decided to not do CentOS 8 and to recommend CentOS 8. They're now, apparently, considering other options - one suggestion is that they might go to Ubuntu. Internal advice shows that a whole host of Linux distributions are made available internally.
Thanks, so still at the stage of questions as here?...
https://indico.cern.ch/event/876772/contributions/4175482/attachments/2170305/3664100/future%20linux%20v4.pdf
Cheers all.
PS: would it be that hard to design and implement a cluster/HPC oriented Linux for academic use as a funded project and maintain it separately from the rapid metastasis of the desktop/boutique distro thing? I mean we are talking a fraction of a percent of the budget of the supercollider.
I would suggest you go over and subscribe at Beowulf.org. A tiny mailing list full of very bright people who've been doing supercomputing / HPC for 30 years or so. It was an accident that they started out with Red Hat packages to form Extreme Linux all those years ago: it's really not easy to build something from scratch but it is do-able. There are some supercomputing facilities running on Debian and Ubuntu, I think, and genomics sequencing is largely Ubuntu at the Wellcome Sanger Institute, for example.
"Fermilab and CERN were using Scientific and were mulling switching to CentOS ... - one suggestion is that they might go to Ubuntu. Internal advice shows that a whole host of Linux distributions are made available internally."
Most creators of Linux operating systems use Debian or Ubuntu core, as the start of their creation. Third party creators prefer Deb application compilation. RPM compilation has several incompatible versions. Long term, does this mean the death of RPM?
There's a lot of pressure leaning towards a *buntu distro inside the sceince community
People have used Redhat foreever because "everyone uses Redhat", so all the packages are RPMed
Once it becomes too damned inconvenient to keep that model (and it is, because things like the latest version of IDL won't run on it anymore!), then there will be a mass push to something else
which is happening, but older staff are resisting, this is leading to pockets of "geurilla computing" being setup "in spite of" the computing support groups in most places, not with their assistance.....
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"the version number of a package isn't really a good indicator on how old it is"
If you have any idea how many problems that causes when XYZ researcher wants ABC library version and RH only shows it's AAA (but is ABC internally).... Toys and prams happen a lot
The result is usually very NON-portable software which requires endless tweakery to install anywhere else
This will be a show-stopper (or delayer) for some. From the Rocky Linux 8.4 release notes:
"A Note about Secure Boot
We know many of you depend on Secure Boot. It is a non-trivial process to get Secure Boot for a new OS. This process is underway and the shim-review process should begin very soon. Rocky Linux version 8.4 will initially be released without Secure Boot support enabled by default. However, once the proper packages have been built and signed, another set of ISOs for Rocky Linux version 8.4 will be released with Secure Boot support available."
The cynic in me wonders if (commercial offering) Cloud Linux have made Alma Linux out of the goodness of their hearts, or if they've got some sort of ulterior motive. Mind you, at least they have form in taking the RHEL source and making their own distro.
On either distro option I'm one of the many wondering which way to jump. At work we've even looked at some other commercial options, but there's usually some sort of issue/gotcha which makes it not so obvious.
Yep, amongst all this crazy kerfuffle, Debian just keeps plodding along reliably, and you know that they aren't going to suddenly turn around and go all money-grabbing on you.
It would probably make quite a lot of sense for every organisation or research institution that was having a bit of a panic just now to roll up their sleeves and chip in some developer/packager time, and even a few coins here and there. I mean "software in the public interest" is pretty much where most of them are actually coming from, after all?
Which Rocky? Frank ‘n ‘furter or flying squirrel? Admittedly, the thought of Boris, Natasha, and Fearless Leader trying to steal the secrets behind the Linux kernel has some appeal. As does the idea of Bullwinkle booting up a server.
Yes, I’m a fan of early 1960s cartoons. No, not a fan of idiot Italian boxers. Rocky the squirrel should have bitten the, ahem, Italian Stallion somewhere painful. I pity the fool who dares to steal the name from the squirrel.
The Multinationals are a hell of a lot more effective than that damned Coyote is, they're more like how actual Coyotes are: they watch and wait until there's a visible weakness and then strike or they keep testing defenses and shifting their internal organization (and leadership) around until they find a hole or an optimum way of attacking the existing defenses that works for them.
Then again, the Roadrunner's a decent representation of open source, but if I've gotta pick a Southwestern desert, scrubland or steppe animal to represent it, I'd probably pick the Tarantula Hawk because while they're largely docile if they decide to attack the adversary may win, but it'll likely regret it.
The reasons are given on the advantages and otherwise of the many human resource options. Which legal structure to follow? Seems that the one unelected proprietor, & the commercial "for profit" enterprise is not seen as good for project health. The senior managers here have life experiences. History is littered with corporate failures. Most governance of human resources have questionable performance.
Are there any guidelines on suitable legal structures?
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